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I have a tournament coming up and have just heard there may be a lot of Tau. This worries me slightly as my Eldar list has the crimson death 3 flyers formation. It will murder other flyers but ground skyfire makes me nervous.

So, what sort of skyfire capabilities am I likely to see from tournament level Tau lists?

Broadsides, Skyrays, HBCTides. More of the former two.

Maybe an ADL depending on how gunline it is.

Do the riptide and broadsides automatically have sky fire or is it an upgrade!?

It's an upgrade called Velocity Tracker.

The one you're likely to see is Early Warning Override which is Interceptor...Broadsides have so many shots Skyfire won't matter and Riptide can just take both.

Skyray comes with VT standard.

It's gonna depend of the rest of the list, but keep in mind that a Tau list technically doesn't even need VT for skyfire. A Sky Ray has 2 markerlights standard and has a VT built in, meaning that for every Sky Ray in a list Tau have 2 markerlights with skyfire at BS4. 2 Markerlight hits on a flyer means that Tau units can fire at flyers at normal BS, or ignore your jink save.

Broadsides and Riptides can be a threat to flyers, but if there are Sky Rays in a list focus them down first, or at least force them to jink then go after the Broadsides and Riptides (in that order, Broadsides are naturally twin-linked so are gonna get more hits overall).

Skyrays will just wipe your fliers off the board with the seeker missile/ markerlight combo. Just watch out for them , they will nuke any flier.

The Crimson Hinter Squadron will be just fine. Rerollable 4+ Jink is broken, and Tau will never hit with enough Markerlights to ignore their cover. Sure, even Skyrays can kill one, but they'll blow their load in the process.

I run a pretty nasty Dual MP Crisis Squad with BuffCommander and allied Commander with Dual MPs and a Velocity Tracker. That unit would kill 2 Crimson Hunters in one turn... 12 Twinlinked Snapshots and 4 Twinlinked BS5 S7 Tankhunting Ignore cover shots will do that.

But seriously, you've got a flier that was worth it, now always has a 4+ cover save and if you Jink a Rerollable 4+. They are crazy good.

 Zagman wrote:
The Crimson Hinter Squadron will be just fine. Rerollable 4+ Jink is broken, and Tau will never hit with enough Markerlights to ignore their cover. Sure, even Skyrays can kill one, but they'll blow their load in the process.

I run a pretty nasty Dual MP Crisis Squad with BuffCommander and allied Commander with Dual MPs and a Velocity Tracker. That unit would kill 2 Crimson Hunters in one turn... 12 Twinlinked Snapshots and 4 Twinlinked BS5 S7 Tankhunting Ignore cover shots will do that.

But seriously, you've got a flier that was worth it, now always has a 4+ cover save and if you Jink a Rerollable 4+. They are crazy good.

Re-rollable 4+ jink isn't broken on an AV10 3HP flyer. You can kill it with bolters if you have enough of them. Besides, Tau have ignores cover Skyfire, What more could you ask for?

For dealing with Tau AA, remember that you have at least one full turn before your flyers come in. That should give you time to focus fire to kill any Skyray or AA broadside.

In general, dealing with Tau goes something like this: kill markerlights>kill AA>kill everything else.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

 Zagman wrote:
The Crimson Hinter Squadron will be just fine. Rerollable 4+ Jink is broken, and Tau will never hit with enough Markerlights to ignore their cover. Sure, even Skyrays can kill one, but they'll blow their load in the process.

I run a pretty nasty Dual MP Crisis Squad with BuffCommander and allied Commander with Dual MPs and a Velocity Tracker. That unit would kill 2 Crimson Hunters in one turn... 12 Twinlinked Snapshots and 4 Twinlinked BS5 S7 Tankhunting Ignore cover shots will do that.

But seriously, you've got a flier that was worth it, now always has a 4+ cover save and if you Jink a Rerollable 4+. They are crazy good.

Re-rollable 4+ jink isn't broken on an AV10 3HP flyer. You can kill it with bolters if you have enough of them. Besides, Tau have ignores cover Skyfire, What more could you ask for?

For dealing with Tau AA, remember that you have at least one full turn before your flyers come in. That should give you time to focus fire to kill any Skyray or AA broadside.

In general, dealing with Tau goes something like this: kill markerlights>kill AA>kill everything else.

And what Ignores Cover Skyfire is that? It takes 2 Markerlihts to Ignore Cover, meaning at best Tau are taking down one flier. Even getting both Networked Markerlights to hit 44% chance, 6 Missiles is 4 Hits, 3HP. So, there is a decent chance a Skyray can solo one, but that means it didn't fire turn 1, survived 1-2'tuens without damage, and are in the list in multiples.

And that 3HP AV10 Flier is fairly well balanced when it has no cover save and has to Jink for a 4+. Gaining a free 4+ and the ability to reroll when Jinking it is broken and incredibly unbalanced.

And you're right, bolsters can do it... Only 432 Bolter shots to do it!

 Zagman wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:

 Zagman wrote:
The Crimson Hinter Squadron will be just fine. Rerollable 4+ Jink is broken, and Tau will never hit with enough Markerlights to ignore their cover. Sure, even Skyrays can kill one, but they'll blow their load in the process.

I run a pretty nasty Dual MP Crisis Squad with BuffCommander and allied Commander with Dual MPs and a Velocity Tracker. That unit would kill 2 Crimson Hunters in one turn... 12 Twinlinked Snapshots and 4 Twinlinked BS5 S7 Tankhunting Ignore cover shots will do that.

But seriously, you've got a flier that was worth it, now always has a 4+ cover save and if you Jink a Rerollable 4+. They are crazy good.

Re-rollable 4+ jink isn't broken on an AV10 3HP flyer. You can kill it with bolters if you have enough of them. Besides, Tau have ignores cover Skyfire, What more could you ask for?

For dealing with Tau AA, remember that you have at least one full turn before your flyers come in. That should give you time to focus fire to kill any Skyray or AA broadside.

In general, dealing with Tau goes something like this: kill markerlights>kill AA>kill everything else.

And what Ignores Cover Skyfire is that? It takes 2 Markerlihts to Ignore Cover, meaning at best Tau are taking down one flier. Even getting both Networked Markerlights to hit 44% chance, 6 Missiles is 4 Hits, 3HP. So, there is a decent chance a Skyray can solo one, but that means it didn't fire turn 1, survived 1-2'tuens without damage, and are in the list in multiples.

And that 3HP AV10 Flier is fairly well balanced when it has no cover save and has to Jink for a 4+. Gaining a free 4+ and the ability to reroll when Jinking it is broken and incredibly unbalanced.

And you're right, bolsters can do it... Only 432 Bolter shots to do it!

Dark Angels say hi. You also have to take into account the cost of the formation. 340 points is hardly something that can be splashed into every army, especially with mandatory units.

This is also the army that can put out 24 S7 TL shots at 36 inches. That will kill any flyer in the game in one turn, barring bad dice.

Your mathhammer is technically correct, but only provides the average dice outcomes. Fortune favors the bold in my experience.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Dark Angels say hi. You also have to take into account the cost of the formation. 340 points is hardly something that can be splashed into every army, especially with mandatory units.

This is also the army that can put out 24 S7 TL shots at 36 inches. That will kill any flyer in the game in one turn, barring bad dice.

Your mathhammer is technically correct, but only provides the average dice outcomes. Fortune favors the bold in my experience.

Dark Angels say what? The only things associated with DA and volume of bolter shots are some Dakka Banner hijinks and there is just no way to:

a) purchase enough marines with the points the opponent used, making this an entirely futile approach. You can get 24 tactical marines with 340 points. Not to mention that investing heavily on those green dudes isn't the best idea either. The amount of marines goes even lower with the points costs of the command squad and the banner itself.
b) fit enough marines inside the are of effect of the banner. Even if you managed to do this, one well placed large blast will wipe out your army.

432 bolter shots needed to bring one flyer down, Dakka Banner makes your bolters salvo 2/4... so you need only 108 marines to kill one! I hope you've been collecting and painting for a while because you'll need a whole company of marines to do what you're suggesting (if I've guessed your intentions right, that is).

Of course you could purchase a ton of librarians and hope to get that cover ignoring Divination spell (perfect timing?) on your actual anti-air guns. Mortis Dreads, Sicaran tanks and Quad guns would do a lot better here than any tactical marine based strategy.

Let's not forget the Firebase Support Cadre which gives Tankhunters to Broadsides and Riptides, coupled with a TL SMS, they might be able to put out more damage than one might think.

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

Dark Angels say what? The only things associated with DA and volume of bolter shots are some Dakka Banner hijinks and there is just no way to:

Clearly he meant that over-powered Dark Talon. Only a 160 points for a flyer with hurricane bolters. All you need to do is survive the 4 to 12 S8 AP2 shots so that you can take your 6 to 12 S4 twin-linked shots.
Yeah, that will do it... or maybe not.
Back to Tau... I've seen Sunsharks do a number on enemy flyers, those interceptor drones really help out.

I'm really not worried about enemy flyers, mainly stuff dug in behind cover or adl which would be used for me to snipe out - my new plan with missle-sides is to try and outrange them using vector dancer

At 36" with S7 shots and 30" with S5 Ignore Cover it'll be tough to outrange them

 Frozocrone wrote:
At 36" with S7 shots and 30" with S5 Ignore Cover it'll be tough to outrange them

Pulse Lasers are S8 AP2 w/ 48" Range. They will do well melting broadsides.

The other weapons available to crimson hunters are 36", they will have to risk return fire to employ them.

 Thaylen wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
At 36" with S7 shots and 30" with S5 Ignore Cover it'll be tough to outrange them

Pulse Lasers are S8 AP2 w/ 48" Range. They will do well melting broadsides.

The other weapons available to crimson hunters are 36", they will have to risk return fire to employ them.

How close will the Hunter move though? It has to move at least 18"

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Thaylen wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
At 36" with S7 shots and 30" with S5 Ignore Cover it'll be tough to outrange them

Pulse Lasers are S8 AP2 w/ 48" Range. They will do well melting broadsides.

The other weapons available to crimson hunters are 36", they will have to risk return fire to employ them.

How close will the Hunter move though? It has to move at least 18"

It has vector dancer so can just move back and forth across the back of the board

ahh fair, I hadn't realised what it does, despite being a USR, it's not actually in the BGB

Have the Skyrays give marker light suppport, and the support cadre with Railsides...That can ruin a few fliers and outrange them

 DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Have the Skyrays give marker light suppport, and the support cadre with Railsides...That can ruin a few fliers and outrange them

How common are they likely to be though?

 Zippokovich wrote:

 DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Have the Skyrays give marker light suppport, and the support cadre with Railsides...That can ruin a few fliers and outrange them

How common are they likely to be though?

Skyrays are pretty solid I usually run 2 in my tau lists.

Yeah, skyrays are common. Great AA and ML support, and not too pricey

 Zagman wrote:
The Crimson Hinter Squadron will be just fine. Rerollable 4+ Jink is broken, and Tau will never hit with enough Markerlights to ignore their cover. Sure, even Skyrays can kill one, but they'll blow their load in the process.

I run a pretty nasty Dual MP Crisis Squad with BuffCommander and allied Commander with Dual MPs and a Velocity Tracker. That unit would kill 2 Crimson Hunters in one turn... 12 Twinlinked Snapshots and 4 Twinlinked BS5 S7 Tankhunting Ignore cover shots will do that.

But seriously, you've got a flier that was worth it, now always has a 4+ cover save and if you Jink a Rerollable 4+. They are crazy good.

How will they be fine when half of the broadiseds guns ignore cover?

If you run into the Tau "Firebase" formation with the 2 units of 3 broadsides and they have HYMP and SMS then you need to kill those broadsides before turn 2. Or at least most of them

That's 6 broadsides. Understand that one of them with the tank hunter rule that come with the formation can reliably take down an AV10 flier a turn... and in that formation their are six


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 DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Have the Skyrays give marker light suppport, and the support cadre with Railsides...That can ruin a few fliers and outrange them

How about not suggesting that someone run a far inferior and less versatile weapon. 1 missileside without marker support can reliably take down an AV10 flier a turn They almost average an AV11 a turn

Expect the riptide to earn it's points by dropping Ap2 pie plates and ignoring your fliers unless necessary

If I expected someone to bring 3 crimson hunters with 4+ re-rollable cover save, I'd not even bother with AA and would proceed to kill his land units.

Bring windriders and wraithknights. That way the crimson hunters are the least of their worries. even just three units of 6 windriders and a wraithknight is enough to make a mediocre list powerful

I've beaten decent lists of 1850 pts of necron with 1200 points of Eldar before. Keeping the crimson hunters alive should not be essential to you winning.

Also if they aren't running the firebase formation they probably don't even care about winning so you are a sure thing

jakejackjake wrote:
Bring windriders and wraithknights. That way the crimson hunters are the least of their worries. even just three units of 6 windriders and a wraithknight is enough to make a mediocre list powerful

I've beaten decent lists of 1850 pts of necron with 1200 points of Eldar before. Keeping the crimson hunters alive should not be essential to you winning.

Also if they aren't running the firebase formation they probably don't even care about winning so you are a sure thing

I am, my list is;

Farseer on bike
4*3 scatter bikes
3*5 warp spiders
Wraithknight
5 d-scythe guard in serpent
Crimson death

Provided I have enough cover im not too worried about my ground stuff - but I do have very limited experience vs Tau

People realize the FBSC cost double the Crismon Hunter formation and requires support.

You can't assume competitive Tau will have either the FBSC or SkyRays. I certainly did well fielding neither.

 Zippokovich wrote:

jakejackjake wrote:
Bring windriders and wraithknights. That way the crimson hunters are the least of their worries. even just three units of 6 windriders and a wraithknight is enough to make a mediocre list powerful

I've beaten decent lists of 1850 pts of necron with 1200 points of Eldar before. Keeping the crimson hunters alive should not be essential to you winning.

Also if they aren't running the firebase formation they probably don't even care about winning so you are a sure thing

I am, my list is;

Farseer on bike
4*3 scatter bikes
3*5 warp spiders
Wraithknight
5 d-scythe guard in serpent
Crimson death

Provided I have enough cover im not too worried about my ground stuff - but I do have very limited experience vs Tau

Just hope you opponent doesnt bring an R'Varna riptide as well as Skyfire stuff otherwise your army will be toast
Farseer takes 4 hits at S7 because he is on a jetbike
Scatterbikes take 4 hits EACH (12 hits per Squad) at S7 (because they are jetbikes)
Wraithknight Takes 6 hits at S8 (because he is a GC,which is also a MC)
Dunno what wraithguard get hit by (do they have the very bulky rule?(or jetbike,cavalry ect...))
Wave serpent takes 6 hits at S8 (as it is a vehicle)

I would watch out for markerlights as well (2 markers on your farseer and HE WILL be dead(as with 2 markers you can give the riptide ignores cover meaning no jink saves for you)
Yeah your army will be toast if he brings one


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Oh forgot to mention,it fires 2 large blasts (4 if nova charged but it cant fire the next turn)
So if it hits 3 jetbikes under 1 blast and 4 under another (lets say its 1 squad) that squad will take 14 (14!) S7 AP4 HITS!
And if already markerlighted...
Bye bye jetbikes (did that earlier and killed 5 deffcoptas on turn 1 with by causing 20 wounds (i nova charged) but alas their jinksaves did not save them)

YOU WILL BE TOAST IF SOMEONE BRINGS THEM

 Zagman wrote:
People realize the FBSC cost double the Crismon Hunter formation and requires support.

You can't assume competitive Tau will have either the FBSC or SkyRays. I certainly did well fielding neither.

Requires ZERO support. Broadsides don't need marker support and riptides are anti troop. The broadsides will either kill all three fliers and some other elder pretty well or draw fire well enoughj


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How many points is this list? Chances are those wraithguard don't get to shoot anything unless the Tau you face have the worst target prioritization ever