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 Talizvar wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Yup, the guy on the right agreeing with everything is the gamer goggles guy and I've seen him in videos for years.

"Agreed", not the best interviewer... fan-friend?

I don't think I've ever heard him criticize palladium but I don't know that I'd go as far as to call him a fan friend though. He's not malicious in his attempts to discredit valid criticism but rather just seemingly ignorant of it or very accepting in a star struck way. In any case, he isn't a very good interviewer. He is the guy who did the Kevin Siembieda interview from the Open House and posted that god awful video with the loud background music that drowned out the actual speech. He reposted the videos since then without the heavy instrumental music but the speech isn't much better. He tends to drift into his own stories for too long and to not allow the person being interviewed to actually answer much. When he softballed Kevin about the kickstarter delay, he spent more time IIRC relating his own ex-FLGS owner story about some clix being delayed at port than he allowed Kevin to answer such an important (softballed) question. In any case, he's likely the ONLY source of youtube Robotech info unless forar decides to put something up. Previously, he and dave simpson were the only two established youtubers who covered Palladium at gencon on any regular basis. I think we can count Dave Simpson out after his steroid fueled rage fugue state a few updates ago.

Forar does videos? I thought he was just doing his best to peddle Type 2 Diabetes.

I asked him to hardball interview palladium at gencon but I don't think he does videos at least that he has mentioned here. It was more of a gentle nudge to that earlier request.

He could never do that. He isn't tough enough to face down a god like Simbieda. Not even for the sizable collective bribe a couple dozen people could provide him with.

As much as is like to see forar interview semenbieda Thomas Roach or maybe even Mike might give Kevin a heads up.

Eh, so Simbieda, not knowing what Forar looks like (I picture Waldo with a Canadian Flag on his shirt), spends his while time cowering and hiding from people.

What I mean is he might be prepared and not speak to anyone who's asking about what's left of the backers funds.

That's actually a good description of Forar cause that's kinda how I picture him too minus the flag.

Merijeek wrote:
Eh, so Simbieda, not knowing what Forar looks like (I picture Waldo with a Canadian Flag on his shirt), spends his while time cowering and hiding from people.

If he wants to look like a crooked politician or wall street banker (or for soccer fans, a FIFA official!) on video, that probably isn't the best choice. I certainly hope that they give us ALOT of detailed and concrete information about wave 2 by the time Gen Con rolls around but if they don't then I firmly believe the time for serious questions in person is long overdue.


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 Cypher-xv wrote:
What I mean is he might be prepared and not speak to anyone who's asking about what's left of the backers funds.

That's actually a good description of Forar cause that's kinda how I picture him too minus the flag.

I figured the flappy dog ear hat and a flannel shirt was summer wear up north! In any case, I think we can give Forar enough credit from his posting here to not automatically assume that he'll be running around the booth frothing at the mouth like a fan friend screaming "Where's the wave 2 beef!?!" on camera. There is no reason not to start the interview with some polite flattery and someball questions and then lead into the firm yet still polite hardball ones. Unlike Gamer Goggles interviews, though, we should let him fully answer.

I've debated whether or not to try an bribe Forar with an internet cookie to do the interview for DakkaDakkaTVTV (TMTM?) but I suspect from his sig that he has ready access to the real thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cypher-xv wrote:
As much as is like to see forar interview semenbieda Thomas Roach or maybe even Mike might give Kevin a heads up.

Mike's been alot more critical than the other person named so let's not lump the two together. I don't agree with everything that Mike says or does but I think he speaks his mind publicly within the bounds that being an insider puts on him.

The images we get in our heads of people...

Anyway, no, I'm definitely not the frothing at the mouth type.

People have suggested having a friend recording from the side, just to make sure that the full conversation is capture and not misconstrued or misrepresented later.

Considering the number of people (even annoyed people) who walk away from talking to them (at cons or on the phone) gleefully embracing the party line, if nothing else I plan on prepping myself against slick talk and smooth lines.

I guess basically I want them to know that there are people who aren't blowing sunshine up their butts who aren't raving crazy people either (most of the time, tempers have certainly flared a few times); but regular fans of the show/novels/videogames/etc that just want info.

But Warboss has it as well; if we hit August and they're still not coughing up giant piles of info, something is absolutely wrong. Like... it is now, but that'd be a red flag that could be seen from space.

 Forar wrote:
The images we get in our heads of people...

You mean to say you are not, in fact, a purple winged puppy? Oh, man.....

The most adorable Zergling you know!

 Forar wrote:
The images we get in our heads of people...

I maintain the fallacy that you're a flannel wearing hoser, eh!

If anyone is interested, I posted the first part of my robotech skirmish house rules this morning. So far it's just the introduction and me waxing poetically about why I made them (it's only 1 page, not 19.. I promise!) but the first part of the crunch should automatically go up later tonight assuming I didn't screw up that blog feature. As usual, the link is in my sig below.

I did meet Kevin S. at Anime-North and did get to see him "grilled" prior to me talking to him.

His tactics are hard ones to work around.
He tends to say "I feel", "as far as I know", "ok".
His verbal speech is similar to his writing, long in feeling, short on facts.
Don't get me wrong, you express anything positive he takes off from there but anything negative it goes from shutting down to losing it in short order.

I fully went into my discussion with the intent to grill, came away with nothing and a vague feeling of frustration and felt like a coward when I could tell he was getting to the "strongly irritated" stage and felt that was enough.

The well practiced sunshine and rainbow defense/distraction mechanism acts similarly to a flashbang grenade loaded with additionally with glitter.

Yeah. And as someone who works at our corporations head office, I'm no stranger to weaseling some plausible deniability into ones communications.

Like, I am totally understanding of projects that blew up and got much bigger than originally anticipated, but with greater objectives and heightened resources/cash flow must come accountability, application of personnel to meet those challenges, etc.

As has been oft noted, if this was 3 guys/gals in their parents basement, it'd be one thing. When you bank on bringing in amazing folks who've been in the industry for years, and your own 30+ years doing business, this amateur hour gak doesn't fly.

Mike and I might disagree on many things, but one thing we absolutely agree on is that they were in dire need of a proper project manager, and the lack of one has hurt this campaign, product line, and these companies dearly.

I won't say mortally, but there's an awful lot of blood gushing out all the same, and they really need to stem the flow asap.

As in, we're 15 pages into the second thread, and still no Real(tm) news of wave 2 (c)!

 Forar wrote:

Mike and I might disagree on many things, but one thing we absolutely agree on is that they were in dire need of a proper project manager, and the lack of one has hurt this campaign, product line, and these companies dearly.

I won't say mortally, but there's an awful lot of blood gushing out all the same, and they really need to stem the flow asap.

And they reacted to that very obvious fact by....bringing in an artist fan-friend to replace the guy who had formerly blown it so badly (and possibly stolen Kevin's doodles off the fridge).

 Cypher-xv wrote:
As much as is like to see forar interview semenbieda Thomas Roach or maybe even Mike might give Kevin a heads up.

They are Big Boys, if we have to give them a heads up they would have been screwed long ago.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cypher-xv wrote:
What I mean is he might be prepared and not speak to anyone who's asking about what's left of the backers funds.

That's actually a good description of Forar cause that's kinda how I picture him too minus the flag.

I wish I knew too.....I don't think any company owner would or SHOULD answer that question when you think about it. The answer, good or bad, could cause problems not matter how much we feel we deserve it.

 warboss wrote:
The well practiced sunshine and rainbow defense/distraction mechanism acts similarly to a flashbang grenade loaded with additionally with glitter.

As outlined though, it is "sunshine and rainbows" and then suddenly "weapons of mass destruction" with not much in between.

At this point, I no longer wonder what's up in here - hell, it is cheaper than therapy, right?

Well that and...

Just look for some missive from PB.
Much anger happens when Wave 2 is a footnote.

Even worse if saying "good news" on more RRT product not Wave 2.

If SOME progress is posted on wave 2 with actual facts, there will be stunned comments and then the orgy of "THAT IS IT???" I anticipate no matter what they say.

 Talizvar wrote:
Just look for some missive from PB.
Much anger happens when Wave 2 is a footnote.

Even worse if saying "good news" on more RRT product not Wave 2.

If SOME progress is posted on wave 2 with actual facts, there will be stunned comments and then the orgy of "THAT IS IT???" I anticipate no matter what they say.

In all likelihood, that is true. Unless it's a full and comprehensive update covering pretty much everything that's done, and everything that's yet to do, with exacting timelines on what remains, yeah, there'll probably still be some backlash? Why? Because PB have burnt through any benefit of the doubt.

"Sorry, we'll do better" is almost as common a refrain as "soon". If there's any chance they can restore some credibility, it's got to be about not trying to get it all in one hit, but being consistently better over time. They'll need to accept the "That's it?" commentary, and not get all pissy and disappear. They need to accept that they've been bad, horribly so. And that they won't be forgiven immediately. And that a lot of people will not take promises at face value. If they strung together five or six competent and informative posts in a row, once every two weeks, that didn't just act as blame diversion or an attempt to sell snake oil, then some of those people might fall back into line. But they also need to accept that some backers are permanently burnt. Unfortunately, it looks like they see anyone who is critical as being a "hater", and rather dismiss them all, than try to get those that could be swayed back, back.

But that's all hypothetical. That assumes PB can look at the past, and correct their mistakes. Nothing seen in the last six months shows that anything had been learnt from the previous 20 months. Hell, the tone of the last couple Updates is that "business as usual" is the right way. All their talk about listening to the backers, and having seen the mistakes in the past, appear to be more about ass covering, than self reflection.

Better than keeping us in the dark though, right guys?

The only ones who will be upset regardless is Jorel and Rick. Everyone else will judge PB on the contents of the update.

Morgan Vening wrote:
Unfortunately, it looks like they see anyone who is critical as being a "hater", and rather dismiss them all, than try to get those that could be swayed back, back.

That's been their SOP during the last... dunno, 30 years? Guess it's difficult to get out of the habit.

...and also, they don't seem to want to. It's much easier to live thinking you're always right and the world is out to get you, after all.

Small issue is that we cannot be dismissed easily since we are "customers", they have (had) our money and are on the hook.

Worse yet, they seem to want more of our money and is doing the bare minimum to try to get it.

Then to be confused why we are all not in a frenzy to get the new "unseen" (tm) product... burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice...

I really think they have no idea how their customer "servicing" has burned bridges for them and leave their customers feeling ill used.

It truly blows my mind how they feel that some straight answers could not go well unless the seed money was not used as intended (too much retail stock? used for operating expenses?).

To go this long with no wave 2 information including the "restart" that wasn't is a bit beyond a concern: this is no joke anymore, what is going on?

Even saying "we goofed" and need more money to finish wave 2 is "better" than other scenarios I am thinking on.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
The only ones who will be upset regardless is Jorel and Rick. Everyone else will judge PB on the contents of the update.

Yeah, it would damage his plan on suing, once, oh wait! Then again, and then again right?

Y'know, we can joke about it all we like, but even if they were to win, a dragged out piece of litigation would probably crush them.

So... it's really not that funny. Rick himself (Hi Rick!) may not pull the trigger, but if they blow things yet again, on a long enough timeline, someone will eventually feel like it's worth their time. Whether it's to get a couple grand back for a big backer, or just to emphasize that there are consequences to stringing people along for years, or something else entirely.

The advantage of playing on the nostalgia of 30-40+ year olds is that they are more prone to having families and being in careers. Being a 'nerdy' pursuit, we're talking a group that often prioritizes their hobbies for disposable income.

But that same funding and life experience also makes them vastly more dangerous than random teens and 20 year olds out there. Some are going to have friends that are lawyers. Hell, I'll bet out of 5k+ backers some of them *are* lawyers.

Whether it's worth any of their time to pick a fight over a couple hundred bucks (if that) seems low, but if they drag this out long enough, the odds are someone will decide to give it a whirl.

Whether they're funded or scraping the bottom of the barrel, they need to make this as right as they can, and as the weeks tick by without tangible wave two info, more red herrings (scale! LE figures! GHQ!), and drawing ever closer to that end of the year period, they need to gak or get off the pot.

There is also the option of small claims courts in the US but the appropriate venue for those is limited. Palladium has to have a presence and/or do business in the state that they're being sued in (even if temporarily like Illinois during Adepticon). You could have them served during Gencon or Adepticon in Indiana or Illinois but otherwise you'd generally have to do it on their home turf of Michigan. At that point, though, even in small claims court, you'd likely be doing it out of spite rather than actually getting your money back. Between filing costs and possible costs to have a 3rd party serve them, you'd likely be at or above the average pledge amount but you wouldn't have to pay any lawyer fees. That to my (limited non-lawyer) knowledge would be limited to an individual backer and not on behalf of all of them as a whole. It would basically just be a symbolic middle finger to palladium recorded in court documents.

 Forar wrote:
Hell, I'll bet out of 5k+ backers some of them *are* lawyers.

::raises hand::

 Forar wrote:
Whether it's worth any of their time to pick a fight over a couple hundred bucks (if that) seems low, but if they drag this out long enough, the odds are someone will decide to give it a whirl.

It's not worth it to me.