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Yeah, given the 'quality' of the material so far, that could easily become a 'give them enough rope to hang their own arguments' situation.

Well, on the topic of waiting patiently, I will see what they have to say.
Heck, I would sign a non-disclosure agreement if they show me where they are at and objective evidence of where wave 2 is going.

Funny that guy saying we are crying like babies and he did not put any money in and has backers to thank for the inevitable wave 2: if you have nothing invested in a thing, your expectations are rather similar.

I feel like I am in a bad Dire Straits video where PB figures they get "Money for nothing...".

Funny how we are so mean we deserve no update but they will weather the storm of bad press.
I think they fear proof of being wrong more than customer ire... weird.

Anyway, another fine Monday.
See if Mr. Email will have anything for me this week other than another swift kick in the shorts from our good friends at PB.

 Talizvar wrote:

Anyway, another fine Monday.
See if Mr. Email will have anything for me this week other than another swift kick in the shorts from our good friends at PB.

Perhaps they'll offer you first dibs personally on buying some new product sight unseen (rules yet to come) to be delivered at a future date of their guessing.

 warboss wrote:
Perhaps they'll offer you first dibs personally on buying some new product sight unseen (rules yet to come) to be delivered at a future date of their guessing.

A figure personally made by Kevin of an indeterminate material rolled in glitter.

I may have to give it a pass.

I shudder to think what my PB "Christmas Surprise" grab bag would be if I ordered one.

here is the latest Palladium's forums boss had to say on the facebook uncensored group:

Jerome Restof They don't need to respond to facebook posts, they just need to post real information to the Kickstarter page.
Like · Reply · 1 · 54 mins
Hide 23 Replies

Jeff Nmi Ruiz Or on their website
Like · 41 mins

Richard Steinberg no on the kickstarter forums where the backers are expected to find info on the project.
Like · 38 mins

Jeff Nmi Ruiz Out on the website OF THE COMPANY BEHIND THE PRODUCT
Like · 32 mins

Richard Steinberg wrongo jackie boy, PB has to inform backers on the Kickstarter forums, since many of us do not visit the Palladium website nor care too, furthemore the e-mails I get from PB weekly are deleted since any and all info regarding the kickstarter is supposed to be on the kickstarter forums, just because PB is afraid to put anything in writing that they cannot erase does not make it legal.
Like · 30 mins

Jeff Nmi Ruiz Please share with us the stated rule indicating where palladium had to post?
Like · 29 mins

Jeff Nmi Ruiz And if you're deleting emails, that's on you.
Like · 28 mins

Richard Steinberg its in the kickstarter ToS, where the backers are supposed to be kept updated on the updates on the kickstarter site
Like · 27 mins

Jeff Nmi Ruiz Link
Like · 27 mins

Jeff Nmi Ruiz Prove your message that it says that UPDATES HAVE TO BE MADE ON THE KICKSTARTER PAGE.
Like · 26 mins

Jerome Restof Besides which, they aren't even posting updates on their webpage. There's a single link to the convention exclusives, and then no other updates about anything until January of 2012. They need to post to the KS page.
Like · 25 mins

Richard Steinberg When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers.

Throughout the process, creators owe their backers a high standard o...See More
Like · 23 mins

Richard Steinberg you notice the last part there right?
Like · 23 mins

Jerome Restof https://www.kickstarter.com/help/handbook/updates
Updates — Kickstarter
Throughout the life of your project, you’ll be communicating with backers and keeping them updated on your progress. That’s where project updates come in. They’re your project’s blog, and how backers can follow along with you from start to finish. Being part of this journey is one of the best things…
KICKSTARTER.COM
Like · 23 mins

Richard Steinberg damn Jerome beat me to it tongue emoticon
Like · 23 mins

Jerome Restof smile emoticon
Like · 22 mins

Jerome Restof Richard Steinberg https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use
Kickstarter
These updated terms went into effect on October 19, 2014, at 12 a.m. Eastern Time, and apply to all projects launched on Kickstarter on or after that date. To see the previous version of these terms, which govern all projects launched before that date, click here.
KICKSTARTER.COM
Like · 20 mins

Jeff Nmi Ruiz Sorry, but I'm not seeing where it says that the updates have to be made via the Kickstarter page.
Like · 19 mins

Jeff Nmi Ruiz It mentions posting an update, but it doesn't state that the update has to be on the Kickstarter page itself
Like · 19 mins

Richard Steinberg Projects: Fundraising and Commerce

Kickstarter is a platform where Project Creators run campaigns to fund creative projects by offering rewards to raise money from Backers. By creating a fundraising campaign on Kickstarter, you as the Project Creator ...See More
Like · 18 mins

Richard Steinberg https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/oct2012
Terms of Use — Kickstarter
This page applies only to projects launched on or before October 18th, 2014 at 11:59pm ET. For the current version of these terms, please click here.
KICKSTARTER.COM
Like · Remove Preview · 18 mins

Richard Steinberg Rules and Conduct

As a condition of use, you promise not to use the Service for any purpose that is prohibited by the Terms of Use or law. The Service is provided only for your own personal, non-commercial use (except as allowed by the terms set forth...See More
Like · 14 mins

Jerome Restof You are just parsing now, Nmi. If people bought into a KS, they would expect to see said updates about that KS on the KS page, not some other random webpage. But that is besides the point: Palladium isn't even updating their own page as to the status o...See More
Like · 13 mins

Richard Steinberg NMI you notice the part there about Spam and unsolicited advertising? that is what PB's weekly mails are about., when I brought this up to kickstarter they said just remove myself from their mail list since all updates regarding the project are to come thru their kickstarter forum updates page on the kickstarter site.

While I don't doubt KS giving the advice that had the least amount of effort for themselves, I'd post that email if you still had it.

Semantics and statistics, the two final refuges of the scoundrel...

NMI must be feeling the heat.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
NMI must be feeling the heat.

of course he is since without PB he will go back to being a nobody.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
NMI must be feeling the heat.

That's just the sunshine on his face.

The worst part is, even if they posted on their website / whatever, PB would still need to provide some sort of objective update. Pictures, facts, dates. Not just nebulous "soon".

 Cypher-xv wrote:
NMI must be feeling the heat.

He's too stupid to feel the heat - he is as intelligent as he is handsome.

NMI is not a joy to deal with but we could avoid attacking him here where he cannot ban... I mean "defend" himself or a mod with great regret will bane us...

 Talizvar wrote:
NMI is not a joy to deal with but we could avoid attacking him here where he cannot ban... I mean "defend" himself or a mod with great regret will bane us...

Hey, while I'm not a huge fan of the personal attacks, there's an irony that you suggest he can't defend himself here. Given that his argument in that thread was PB don't have to "defend" themselves on the Kickstarter, they can "defend" themselves wherever they want.

Unless he's done something to incur a banhammer here, that is. And if he has, I have confidence it was for much more than what most PB Forum banned have done.

 Talizvar wrote:
NMI is not a joy to deal with but we could avoid attacking him here where he cannot ban... I mean "defend" himself or a mod with great regret will bane us...

my point is while not quite employed with PB he does have their ear and somewhat acts for them in other ways, so what he says could be construed as coming from Pb themselves, since, well they say nothing.

It is entirely possible that he has done and said objectively stupid things, preserved for posterity on the internet. Like many, if not all of us.

I would prefer people continue to badger Kevin over lackeys like NMI.

Please remember that Dakka rule #1 is "be polite" - thanks.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
It is entirely possible that he has done and said objectively stupid things, preserved for posterity on the internet. Like many, if not all of us.

I would prefer people continue to badger Kevin over lackeys like NMI.

problem is the only way to get any sort of response out of Kevin is to file a BBB complaint and maybe even a complaint with your local State's AG.

Asterios wrote:
here is the latest Palladium's forums boss had to say on the facebook uncensored group:

Spoiler:

Jerome Restof They don't need to respond to facebook posts, they just need to post real information to the Kickstarter page.
Like · Reply · 1 · 54 mins
Hide 23 Replies

Jeff Nmi Ruiz Or on their website
Like · 41 mins

Richard Steinberg no on the kickstarter forums where the backers are expected to find info on the project.
Like · 38 mins

Jeff Nmi Ruiz Out on the website OF THE COMPANY BEHIND THE PRODUCT
Like · 32 mins

Richard Steinberg wrongo jackie boy, PB has to inform backers on the Kickstarter forums, since many of us do not visit the Palladium website nor care too, furthemore the e-mails I get from PB weekly are deleted since any and all info regarding the kickstarter is supposed to be on the kickstarter forums, just because PB is afraid to put anything in writing that they cannot erase does not make it legal.
Like · 30 mins

Jeff Nmi Ruiz Please share with us the stated rule indicating where palladium had to post?
Like · 29 mins

Jeff Nmi Ruiz And if you're deleting emails, that's on you.
Like · 28 mins

Richard Steinberg its in the kickstarter ToS, where the backers are supposed to be kept updated on the updates on the kickstarter site
Like · 27 mins

Jeff Nmi Ruiz Link
Like · 27 mins

Jeff Nmi Ruiz Prove your message that it says that UPDATES HAVE TO BE MADE ON THE KICKSTARTER PAGE.
Like · 26 mins

Jerome Restof Besides which, they aren't even posting updates on their webpage. There's a single link to the convention exclusives, and then no other updates about anything until January of 2012. They need to post to the KS page.
Like · 25 mins

Richard Steinberg When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers.

Throughout the process, creators owe their backers a high standard o...See More
Like · 23 mins

Richard Steinberg you notice the last part there right?
Like · 23 mins

Jerome Restof https://www.kickstarter.com/help/handbook/updates
Updates — Kickstarter
Throughout the life of your project, you’ll be communicating with backers and keeping them updated on your progress. That’s where project updates come in. They’re your project’s blog, and how backers can follow along with you from start to finish. Being part of this journey is one of the best things…
KICKSTARTER.COM
Like · 23 mins

Richard Steinberg damn Jerome beat me to it tongue emoticon
Like · 23 mins

Jerome Restof smile emoticon
Like · 22 mins

Jerome Restof Richard Steinberg https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use
Kickstarter
These updated terms went into effect on October 19, 2014, at 12 a.m. Eastern Time, and apply to all projects launched on Kickstarter on or after that date. To see the previous version of these terms, which govern all projects launched before that date, click here.
KICKSTARTER.COM
Like · 20 mins

Jeff Nmi Ruiz Sorry, but I'm not seeing where it says that the updates have to be made via the Kickstarter page.
Like · 19 mins

Jeff Nmi Ruiz It mentions posting an update, but it doesn't state that the update has to be on the Kickstarter page itself
Like · 19 mins

Richard Steinberg Projects: Fundraising and Commerce

Kickstarter is a platform where Project Creators run campaigns to fund creative projects by offering rewards to raise money from Backers. By creating a fundraising campaign on Kickstarter, you as the Project Creator ...See More
Like · 18 mins

Richard Steinberg https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use/oct2012
Terms of Use — Kickstarter
This page applies only to projects launched on or before October 18th, 2014 at 11:59pm ET. For the current version of these terms, please click here.
KICKSTARTER.COM
Like · Remove Preview · 18 mins

Richard Steinberg Rules and Conduct

As a condition of use, you promise not to use the Service for any purpose that is prohibited by the Terms of Use or law. The Service is provided only for your own personal, non-commercial use (except as allowed by the terms set forth...See More
Like · 14 mins

Jerome Restof You are just parsing now, Nmi. If people bought into a KS, they would expect to see said updates about that KS on the KS page, not some other random webpage. But that is besides the point: Palladium isn't even updating their own page as to the status o...See More
Like · 13 mins

Richard Steinberg NMI you notice the part there about Spam and unsolicited advertising? that is what PB's weekly mails are about., when I brought this up to kickstarter they said just remove myself from their mail list since all updates regarding the project are to come thru their kickstarter forum updates page on the kickstarter site.

This entire exchange is pretty funny

Asterios wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
It is entirely possible that he has done and said objectively stupid things, preserved for posterity on the internet. Like many, if not all of us.

I would prefer people continue to badger Kevin over lackeys like NMI.

problem is the only way to get any sort of response out of Kevin is to file a BBB complaint and maybe even a complaint with your local State's AG.

No idea how/what to do considering I live in the UK. Feeling that I am probably going to get boned.

Went in to the Ks as I am a modeller first and foremost, have no desire to play the game, and only wanted the character models, SDF-1, and a few bits. I don't want core boxes in place of (almost) all the stuff I wanted, it's either give me what I ordered, or give me my money back!

I might have to look into small claims court over here - and I don't believe for a second that Kev, or anyone else from PB, will put up a defence as it'll cost them more to either hire a local defence, or fly someone over here than it would to settle. Still, hanging on in the vague hope that W2 isn't vapourware at this point, I'd rather have my models than my money back, but if that's all I can get .................................

Once this hits a courtroom situation there's no way any of the backers are going to get anything (other than perhaps a warm feeling that they've killed Palladium)

Businesses (especially in shaky financial situations) almost always have more liabilities to secured creditors (like banks/tax authorities/other busninesses with better lawyers) than they have assets especially when the assets are such esoteric things as minis/games etc

look at CSM who went bankrupt over tome of horrors II etc (follow the story here http://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/53433-csms-tome-of-horrors-complete-ii/page-50)



The court appointed trustee said

The meeting of creditors was held on Friday. The United States Trustee’s office also was present at the hearing and also questioned the debtor. You can purchased the transcript, if you wish, but today, being Sunday, I am not able to provide the contact information. Send me an email on Tuesday and I will give you that information.



I have not yet decided if I want to sell the assets, or abandon them – that is a complicated legal matter involving signficant out of pocket costs on my part , and which requires some thought and consultation with others. If I do sell assets, it will be on an “as is”, basis without any warranty of any kind, and subject to IP rights, if any, held by third persons.

The administrative costs to administer this bakruptcy are signfiicant and large. I am not sure that I can sell the items and get enough to pay administrative costs and then pay a resonsable dividend to credits. Anyone that buys the assets does so at their own risk.



Conducting my investigation of the financial affairs the debtor and in looking at the Kickstarter web cite, I don’t believe the he was engaged in an illegal Ponzi scheme or committed actionable fraud. Remember, being a bad business man or making more decisions does not always equate with fraud. His problems primarily stem from greatly underestimating production and other costs and making poor decisions. But I found no intent to cheat, and I did not see large sums of money diverted from the company for his personal use. Significantly, sd there are no written agreements detailing the investment transactions. It is difficult if not impossible to prove intentional wrongdoing absent written documentation.

and this is a very similar situation with a bunch of the assets tied to a licence, if palladium goes pop it may well be that nobody can sell any of the robotech stuff the have warehoused (licences may well become void and HG/other licensors do no have to grant them again, and certainly not free)

so the assets of the business will be a stack of out of date rpgs and associated IP, out of date office stuff and possibly a building if they actually own it.

without a building it could well be cheaper for the court to trustee (who has to add his own costs into the equation as well) to abandon the lot (in which case Kevin could well end up still owning the non-licenced IP assets and possibly even the stock... although at that point he too would be unable to sell the robotech stuff

So whatever you decide to do, do not do so in the expectation of getting any cash back, it's just not going to happen, leaving things alone may well be distasteful but is the best chance of backers ending up with something (eventually)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Once this hits a courtroom situation there's no way any of the backers are going to get anything (other than perhaps a warm feeling that they've killed Palladium)

Businesses (especially in shaky financial situations) almost always have more liabilities to secured creditors (like banks/tax authorities/other busninesses with better lawyers) than they have assets especially when the assets are such esoteric things as minis/games etc

look at CSM who went bankrupt over tome of horrors II etc (follow the story here http://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/53433-csms-tome-of-horrors-complete-ii/page-50)



The court appointed trustee said

The meeting of creditors was held on Friday. The United States Trustee’s office also was present at the hearing and also questioned the debtor. You can purchased the transcript, if you wish, but today, being Sunday, I am not able to provide the contact information. Send me an email on Tuesday and I will give you that information.



I have not yet decided if I want to sell the assets, or abandon them – that is a complicated legal matter involving signficant out of pocket costs on my part , and which requires some thought and consultation with others. If I do sell assets, it will be on an “as is”, basis without any warranty of any kind, and subject to IP rights, if any, held by third persons.

The administrative costs to administer this bakruptcy are signfiicant and large. I am not sure that I can sell the items and get enough to pay administrative costs and then pay a resonsable dividend to credits. Anyone that buys the assets does so at their own risk.



Conducting my investigation of the financial affairs the debtor and in looking at the Kickstarter web cite, I don’t believe the he was engaged in an illegal Ponzi scheme or committed actionable fraud. Remember, being a bad business man or making more decisions does not always equate with fraud. His problems primarily stem from greatly underestimating production and other costs and making poor decisions. But I found no intent to cheat, and I did not see large sums of money diverted from the company for his personal use. Significantly, sd there are no written agreements detailing the investment transactions. It is difficult if not impossible to prove intentional wrongdoing absent written documentation.

and this is a very similar situation with a bunch of the assets tied to a licence, if palladium goes pop it may well be that nobody can sell any of the robotech stuff the have warehoused (licences may well become void and HG/other licensors do no have to grant them again, and certainly not free)

so the assets of the business will be a stack of out of date rpgs and associated IP, out of date office stuff and possibly a building if they actually own it.

without a building it could well be cheaper for the court to trustee (who has to add his own costs into the equation as well) to abandon the lot (in which case Kevin could well end up still owning the non-licenced IP assets and possibly even the stock... although at that point he too would be unable to sell the robotech stuff

So whatever you decide to do, do not do so in the expectation of getting any cash back, it's just not going to happen, leaving things alone may well be distasteful but is the best chance of backers ending up with something (eventually)

Pretty much my thinking as well. But since this opinion does not line up with some others, our opinion is belittled.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Then if they redo Robotech with a new movie and someone else picks it up....we all know it will not be with the classical designs.

@mike

As if i will ever happen, that we will see any classic wave 2 stuff.
The little chance for maybe 2016 or even 2017 is getting more belaughed every week there is no substantial news about wave 2.

Giving those gangsters the benfit of believing they work on RRT.
How many more paid working hours will it take? And does anyone believe, they will it just do for nothing?
Every week, even every day is eating the funds dedicated for the project.

With funding this projekt we just gave those old farts money for a living, and to pay other debts, nothing more.

Who cares if someone else will pick up the rights to a robotech miniature game soon (tm).
We will never see any of the classic wave 2 stuff anyway.

Fullback wrote:
@mike

As if i will ever happen, that we will see any classic wave 2 stuff.
The little chance for maybe 2016 or even 2017 is getting more belaughed every week there is no substantial news about wave 2.

Giving those gangsters the benfit of believing they work on RRT.
How many more paid working hours will it take? And does anyone believe, they will it just do for nothing?
Every week, even every day is eating the funds dedicated for the project.

With funding this projekt we just gave those old farts money for a living, and to pay other debts, nothing more.

Who cares if someone else will pick up the rights to a robotech miniature game soon (tm).
We will never see any of the classic wave 2 stuff anyway.

and your suggestion is??? Sue just to get some satisfaction/revenge and guarantee yourself to never see anything else? It's a slim chance or none.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Complaining is interesting....but I'd like to see solutions.

still thinking?

I don't see any either.

and your suggestion is??? Sue just to get some satisfaction/revenge and guarantee yourself to never see anything else? It's a slim chance or none.

PB allready guarantte me, that i will see nothing anyway.
As an internal backer i will see even less. (wow even less than nothing)

What do you think we have to loose?


We have a better chance going to vegas without a penny and becoming millionaire than getting any wave 2 stuff form PB.

So what do i have to loose, other thatn the satisfaction that justice struck them down?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
what solution do you want?

You are the best example.
You work your arse off for this game for nothing.

You and james did the majority of promotion for this game?
What has PB done? Anythging nearly equal? Guess not.
What solution do you have to get those lazy producer to promote the game?
Is your solution to this problem to work harder and promote the game more, so that maybe even PB would become interesset in the game?


You want solution from me how to solve any wave 2 problem?
i Don´t even have a solution, how to get an honest anwser from them?
What do you think we can do, so that they will produce anything?

We are running out of option.
Waiting without any information and just listening to their soons (tm) isn´t an option anymore.
Trying to talk to them without getting answers isn´t an option anymore

As i said WE, THE ONES WHO PAID, are running out of options to explain our patience for waiting.

Why bring any solutions, when they PB doesn´t listen to them anyway.

besides, how many months now , since you, mike, submitted the conventional rules?

 Mike1975 wrote:
Pretty much my thinking as well. But since this opinion does not line up with some others, our opinion is belittled.

Donkey caves gonna be donkey caves. The only time I 'belittle' those with differing opinions is when they pick that battle with their own belittling and disrespect. That's obviously not everyone's stance, but I have pointedly striven not to mock people simply for believing.

I mock people for believing and calling people whiners, or haters, or butthurt, or whatever other obnoxious term they want to apply to make themselves feel superior and demean people with critique and complaints.

If people want to grit their teeth and pretend that wishing hard enough might maybe sorta kinda perhaps get them wave two some day, more power to 'em.

But let's not overlook a good number of people in the community (backers and not alike) who are cheerfully happy to lavish praise and tongue baths on PB while snarling at the first hint of differing opinion? Like, don't even bother arguing it, Alex Clarke is *right there*, or Lola, or Joshua (and obviously this isn't an exhaustive list).

Note that I'm not saying that some how these stances are equitable, that somehow it all balances out. There are absolutely some doom and gloomers who could get wave two wrapped in thousand dollar bills and delivered by *insert gorgeous model of their choice here* who would continue to complain. It's not like 'supporters' are being actively hunted down, or that there aren't some 'white knights' out there who will blindly and overzealously lash out at those who don't show the proper amount of gushing love and respect.

Then if they redo Robotech with a new movie and someone else picks it up....we all know it will not be with the classical designs.

I look forward to the VT's being based off of WWI Biplane designs while Meagan Fox portrays May (Minmei wasn't sitting well with test audiences) a hard rock singer who leads the UREDF to battle against the vicious Daves (Zentraedi was too foreign and also disturbed test audiences, something more familiar was needed).

Macross Island actually being found in a lake on the continental US will definitely throw some people for a curve. Don't ask where the aircraft carriers came from. Really, don't, it's a plot point in the 3rd act. As is May's love of Hunt Richer, whose name is used for several jokes obscene enough to almost earn the movie a PG, but luckily they keep the hard G they were looking for in the ratings.

Also the SDF (number omitted, still scaring test audiences) being painted in a garish mockery of the American flag will turn some heads, but luckily in 3D it's almost kind of worth the nausea.

Well, for all I expect to get from PB, and given that I certainly don't have the most to lose, I might as well just forget it. That's £100+ that I'll never see again, but they'll never see me again. That loss will hurt, but at least it's not going to hurt now as much as it would have done two years ago.

Especially as I mainly wanted that SDF-1, and that need has now been satisfied. I have just put in a pre-order with HLJ. It's a known scale, it's Injection Plastic, and it'll get here before anything from PB.
http://www.hlj.com/product/hsg65830.

Nothing more to say on the matter.

Good day, sir.

 Forar wrote:
There are absolutely some doom and gloomers who could get wave two wrapped in thousand dollar bills and delivered by *insert gorgeous model of their choice here* who would continue to complain.

If you ever need to test out that hypothesis, LMK. I'm willing to help and can supply a list of models to choose from. I'm also flexible about the thousand dollar thing (whether wrapping me or the models that is).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Forar wrote:

I look forward to the VT's being based off of WWI Biplane designs while Meagan Fox portrays May (Minmei wasn't sitting well with test audiences) a hard rock singer who leads the UREDF to battle against the vicious Daves (Zentraedi was too foreign and also disturbed test audiences, something more familiar was needed).

Macross Island actually being found in a lake on the continental US will definitely throw some people for a curve. Don't ask where the aircraft carriers came from. Really, don't, it's a plot point in the 3rd act. As is May's love of Hunt Richer, whose name is used for several jokes obscene enough to almost earn the movie a PG, but luckily they keep the hard G they were looking for in the ratings.

Also the SDF (number omitted, still scaring test audiences) being painted in a garish mockery of the American flag will turn some heads, but luckily in 3D it's almost kind of worth the nausea.

I've also heard that the alternate transformation mode of the SDF-1 as well as the guardian mode of the VT's will be a robot monster form instead in order to bring in the younger pokemon demographic. In any case, your rumor is still more realistic than the wave 2 in 2015 unsubstantiated rumor I occasionally get with a weekly spam email from Palladium.

 warboss wrote:

 Forar wrote:
There are absolutely some doom and gloomers who could get wave two wrapped in thousand dollar bills and delivered by *insert gorgeous model of their choice here* who would continue to complain.

If you ever need to test out that hypothesis, LMK. I'm willing to help and can supply a list of models to choose from. I'm also flexible about the thousand dollar thing (whether wrapping me or the models that is).

I'd rather have W2 delivered by a gorgeous model who was wrapped in thousand dollar bills. Her costume might have a few holes in it before she left, mind you. Other than that, you can sign me up for that programme too. (Don't think I'd be complaining after though. Would be interesting to find out!)

I do understand Mike's concern that any legal defense needing to be paid by Palladium could hose the company (allowable out of KS funds? It's applicable...).

On the other hand, if Kevin is allowed to dictate the pace he wishes to run at, he would see no problem of this dragging on for 5 years.
This is also the largest captive audience he has ever had and I personally think he is loath to give it up.
This is why holding his feet to the fire with BBB, pushing for KS updates, complaints to KS, comments in forums are all something to give a wee bit of motivation.

I would like to see the wave 2 models very much, if of similar quality to wave 1, sure I would still be happy, BUT being coy about the status of it has no reasonable explanation other than "just because" or they are unable to complete it.
The only logical means of being unable to complete is running out of funds.
Caused by budgetary mismanagement and purchasing too much retail stock is the most likely thing.

So I pose to you all as the "captive audience":

If it takes up to 5 years to get all your stuff as PB tries to hide the fact they spent the money and they need time to scrape funds together to get their dies out of hock: are you willing to wait?. This also includes them playing all kinds of games as they try to hide that fact while spamming your email to buy their latest dice bag.

If no:

Take it as a loss and walk away?

Or:

Keep "tilting that windmill" and keep pestering for means of getting your money back?
(my choice)

Or:

Or be really upset with them and decide you want to litigate because you are insulted past the point of being practical about it?

I think companies that ignore customer service or just plain good manners deserve to fail.

 Mike1975 wrote:
and your suggestion is??? Sue just to get some satisfaction/revenge and guarantee yourself to never see anything else? It's a slim chance or none.


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Complaining is interesting....but I'd like to see solutions.

still thinking?

I don't see any either.

Taking action (however impotent) against palladium is a solution; it's just a solution that you don't like though. At this point, some folks (not me, at least not yet) find that the likelihood of getting anything from wave 2 is fast approaching zero so the only closure or satisfaction they'll get from this project will be to give Palladium what they deserve. It's a judgement call based on varying priorities (like the "Pledging for Robotech, $140...ruining Palladium's BBB rep....priceless!" commercials) so you or I don't have to agree.. but they are doing something.


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 Conrad Turner wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 Forar wrote:
There are absolutely some doom and gloomers who could get wave two wrapped in thousand dollar bills and delivered by *insert gorgeous model of their choice here* who would continue to complain.

If you ever need to test out that hypothesis, LMK. I'm willing to help and can supply a list of models to choose from. I'm also flexible about the thousand dollar thing (whether wrapping me or the models that is).

I'd rather have W2 delivered by a gorgeous model who was wrapped in thousand dollar bills. Her costume might have a few holes in it before she left, mind you. Other than that, you can sign me up for that programme too. (Don't think I'd be complaining after though. Would be interesting to find out!)

If Palladium promised either of those, we'd be "lucky" to actually get 3 years later Kevin Siembieda or NMI incompletely wrapped in old Italian Lira singles... and they're going commando.


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 Talizvar wrote:
I do understand Mike's concern that any legal defense needing to be paid by Palladium could hose the company (allowable out of KS funds? It's applicable...).

It might also drain money from the Palladium to the MOON!tm fund as well and prevent Kevin Siembieda from being the first RPG publisher to plant his rulebook there. They took a collection up at the office and got $1.43 so far with an estimated date of completion next Tuesday. But those dastardly Robotech backers might foil that plan as well. Does filing a BBB complaint or worse detract from Wave 2 both in terms of time and money? Sure.. but if they weren't going to happen anyways in any realistic form in the forseeable future (2015-2016) then the point is moot.