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 Forar wrote:
But there's totally an end in sight!

3-6 months! They've told us as much repeatedly, and despite having done so for the last half year or so, haven't adjusted that estimate more than adding a few months.

Seems pretty airtight to me. We should begin seeing pre-production prototypes any day now!

>.>

I can't wait to have fulfilled a 2nd KS before this one finally fully ships.

 Cyporiean wrote:

 Forar wrote:
But there's totally an end in sight!

3-6 months! They've told us as much repeatedly, and despite having done so for the last half year or so, haven't adjusted that estimate more than adding a few months.

Seems pretty airtight to me. We should begin seeing pre-production prototypes any day now!

>.>

I can't wait to have fulfilled a 2nd KS before this one finally fully ships.

I'm sure you're backers will be thrilled as well. I'd love to know how it feels. How would you rate the following in order of importance as a KS creator in getting the job done on time?

1) Not lying.

2) Knowing what you're doing.

3) If not #2, hiring someone who does.

4) Not lying.

5) Keeping your word.

6) Communicating clearly, on a regular schedule, and with actual pertinent substance.

7) Not lying.

Now there's coke zero and spit all over my phone.

 warboss wrote:

I'm sure you're backers will be thrilled as well. I'd love to know how it feels. How would you rate the following in order of importance as a KS creator in getting the job done on time?
1) Not lying.
2) Knowing what you're doing.
3) If not #2, hiring someone who does.
4) Not lying.
5) Keeping your word.
6) Communicating clearly, on a regular schedule, and with actual pertinent substance.
7) Not lying.

Honestly, that's a pretty good run down.

#2 is pretty important. #3 can make up for it, but its better if you at least have some idea of what you're doing.

I personally feel I'm bad at #6, but I try to do weekly/every other week updates and respond to PMs/E-mails within a few hours.

here is the Invid shock trooper on a 40mm base and a 25mm base (the light blue base) for better perspective.

 warboss wrote:
ZOMG! Totally. The end is in sight as long as you're the one holding the eye! I believe that is Alex, Kevin, and Wayne from L to R. The problem is that we, the valued backers, can't hold it so we have to rely instead on the updates that consist of casting chicken bones instead.

And don't forget that 'mouth-watering' quality can also be explained.
.
.
.
.
"Beauty is in the eye of the Beer-Holder!"

Asterios wrote:
here is the Invid shock trooper on a 40mm base and a 25mm base (the light blue base) for better perspective.

Figured it would have a bit of overhang on a 25mm. For simplicity a 40mm base would probably be best for the game, 30mm it would fit perfectly esthetically however.
Looks good anyway.

Didn't I read something a while back about Zentraedi infantry getting a different size base or was that something from Mike's homebrew rules? If they are getting something smaller like 25mm then that barrier is already broken. When you're switching to a different era, that's the time to consider different basing options if needed. Since we're talking about stuff that on average (mean) is less than half the size, I'd be fine with smaller bases if we're talking about accurately scaled minis and not sliding scale stuff.

Of course, it doesn't matter because despite that option in the vote getting the LEAST amount of votes out of all the choices by a wide margin, there is not surprisingly enough "interest" for Palladium to explore non-compatible 15mm scale for future alternate versions of the minis (you know... their preordained result that they were totally pushing for 19 pages). Although as whining goes, the above is pretty pointless. I'll be grey, deaf, and arthritic before they finish future eras.

 Talizvar wrote:

Asterios wrote:
here is the Invid shock trooper on a 40mm base and a 25mm base (the light blue base) for better perspective.

Figured it would have a bit of overhang on a 25mm. For simplicity a 40mm base would probably be best for the game, 30mm it would fit perfectly esthetically however.
Looks good anyway.

actually the overhang is a lot less then on some pods, also you have to consider Invid are swarmers, they swarm like bees, if you have them on 40mm bases that can becoming daunting quite fast.

Well, you could say I am more inspired by the "fan support".
I have been a fan of "Net-Epic" ( http://www.net-armageddon.org/) so I figure if PB loses interest (you know they will) we get things hammered out here.
Not like Mike is not pounding away with or without them.
Funny, with the way the rules are I actually am somewhat afraid of smaller bases due to the rules for ganging up in melee: the more you pack-in the more overkill.

 Talizvar wrote:
Well, you could say I am more inspired by the "fan support".
I have been a fan of "Net-Epic" ( http://www.net-armageddon.org/) so I figure if PB loses interest (you know they will) we get things hammered out here.
Not like Mike is not pounding away with or without them.
Funny, with the way the rules are I actually am somewhat afraid of smaller bases due to the rules for ganging up in melee: the more you pack-in the more overkill.

I haven't seen epic played in over a decade (n=1). I'm not claiming that there aren't folks out there playing it but rather that I had higher hopes for Robotech than another house ruled up the wazzo unofficial play it once a year on a special occasion after begging your friends minis game. I have trouble enough finding interest to play officially supported 2nd/3rd tier games (outside of the ICV2 top 5) that get regular releases both in minis and rules. YMMV.

 warboss wrote:

 Forar wrote:
But there's totally an end in sight!

3-6 months! They've told us as much repeatedly, and despite having done so for the last half year or so, haven't adjusted that estimate more than adding a few months.

Seems pretty airtight to me. We should begin seeing pre-production prototypes any day now!

>.>

ZOMG! Totally. The end is in sight as long as you're the one holding the eye! I believe that is Alex, Kevin, and Wayne from L to R. The problem is that we, the valued backers, can't hold it so we have to rely instead on the updates that consist of casting chicken bones instead.

Spoiler:

You're so generous. I was totally expecting something like this:

http://veganamericanprincess.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/See-no-evil-hear-no-evil-speak-no-evil-monkeys-14750406-1600-1200.jpg

Your comparison is better only if you change it to speak no updates on wave 2, see no progress on wave 2, and hear no complaints from backers about wave 2.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Joyboozer wrote:
Now there's coke zero and spit all over my phone.

Then my job (unlike Palladium's) is done!

well here is some stuff on 25mm bases:

They definitely look better on 25mm (and not in such close up zoom pics where the limitations of affordable 3d printing resolution are obvious). Also, I really hope palladium changes their mind and goes with a sliding scale for the other eras in 10 years when they get around to doing them.

 warboss wrote:
They definitely look better on 25mm (and not in such close up zoom pics where the limitations of affordable 3d printing resolution are obvious). Also, I really hope palladium changes their mind and goes with a sliding scale for the other eras in 10 years when they get around to doing them.

you honestly think Palladium will be around in 10 years? me I'm giving them 1 maybe 2 years tops myself.

They're the zombies of the tabletop gaming industry. There is enough white knight flesh to feed on to sustain their minimal product output activity for decades to come. The question is rather whether we'll be around long enough to get wave 2.

oopsie forgot the cyclones:

 warboss wrote:
They're the zombies of the tabletop gaming industry. There is enough white knight flesh to feed on to sustain their minimal product output activity for decades to come. The question is rather whether we'll be around long enough to get wave 2.

I dunno, it is quickly becoming an aging population who have progressively moved out of their parent's basements.
I have been away from the RPG scene for a while but I imagine if the game is not Pathfinder it could be hard to get a game in.
Hard enough with tabletop to get people to bite with RRT.
I am a little afraid to say I am unsure how old I could get before I did not care about Robotech as my first Japanese anime stomping / transforming robot show.

Paladium as a company however, truly is a zombie.
For such a shoe-string company they sure have the attitude.
I honestly thought long ago "White Wolf" had buried these guys, never mind the various iterations of D&D or Pathfinder.

So, how to force these guys to get serious about wave 2 before they decide to go belly-up?
I am sure they will think it is the end of days if they get a fierce letter from my government politely asking them to play nice and give their citizen his money back pretty please...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asterios wrote:
oopsie forgot the cyclones:

25mm as well?
Wow! They are tiny.
Might be a bit more entertaining fitting them in there as bikes.
Your focusing in that close is doing your paintjob no favors, anything that small is not easily done.

 Talizvar wrote:
So, how to force these guys to get serious about wave 2 before they decide to go belly-up?
I am sure they will think it is the end of days if they get a fierce letter from my government politely asking them to play nice and give their citizen his money back pretty please...

All of that unpleasantness could be avoided if they would just deliver the stuff that people paid for...

...and I'm sure if they could do that for free, then they would do so. You know, eventually.

 Talizvar wrote:
I dunno, it is quickly becoming an aging population who have progressively moved out of their parent's basements.
I have been away from the RPG scene for a while but I imagine if the game is not Pathfinder it could be hard to get a game in.
Hard enough with tabletop to get people to bite with RRT.
I am a little afraid to say I am unsure how old I could get before I did not care about Robotech as my first Japanese anime stomping / transforming robot show.

Paladium as a company however, truly is a zombie.
For such a shoe-string company they sure have the attitude.
I honestly thought long ago "White Wolf" had buried these guys, never mind the various iterations of D&D or Pathfinder.

I suspect the Matrix quote about "there are levels of survival we are prepared to accept" also applies here. As long as coming out with one book and a little accessory like a pencil or hat or dice bag twice a year (in addition to the grab bags...did they tell you about their grab bags available for a limited time!?!?!)) pays the bills and leaves a bit left over for pierogi, why try harder? The only wrinkle in the plan is when they lose to death, common sense, or hobby attrition a Jorel superfan (I.e. a fan who treks across the country to pay to meet Kevin again at their in house con, gets dozens of books signed, and buys 7 copies of a book because his name was in it).

 Talizvar wrote:

Asterios wrote:
oopsie forgot the cyclones:

25mm as well?
Wow! They are tiny.
Might be a bit more entertaining fitting them in there as bikes.
Your focusing in that close is doing your paintjob no favors, anything that small is not easily done.

you see that little plastic rod holding them up in flight? that rod is 1mm wide, those guys are about 6mm's high, I'm not gonna put too much work into them

 warboss wrote:
I suspect the Matrix quote about "there are levels of survival we are prepared to accept" also applies here. As long as coming out with one book and a little accessory like a pencil or hat or dice bag twice a year (in addition to the grab bags...did they tell you about their grab bags available for a limited time!?!?!)) pays the bills and leaves a bit left over for pierogi, why try harder? The only wrinkle in the plan is when they lose to death, common sense, or hobby attrition a Jorel superfan (I.e. a fan who treks across the country to pay to meet Kevin again at their in house con, gets dozens of books signed, and buys 7 copies of a book because his name was in it).

It's hard to imagine a half dozen people getting paid a living wage to release 3-4 Rifters a year and 1-3 (or so) books. Assuming they even get half of MSRP from wholesalers, they still have to pay freelancers (something, yes, even after Kevin edits half of it and slaps his name over the top), artists, for their office/warehouse space, assorted bills, and production run costs. Like, that has to be operating expenses in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, for a company with minimal widespread distribution. Sure, there's the theory often postulated that they drifted by on the generosity of fan friends, being bailed out after 'the crisis of treachery', Kevin's collectibles sales, and that great big lump of cash post KS, but it still remains a bit baffling.

Like, Kevin, Wayne, and the others presumably have rent or mortgages to pay. Banks and grocery stores are unlikely to go on promises of greatness, and even 2 income households (assuming they're all in relationships) only go so far when one of those two is allegedly doing things but can't actually show anything for those efforts.

As always, I'm not saying that every company has to be rolling in cash like it's the high times, but for a company that so clearly struggles for so long, something has to give eventually.

People (KS comments, Mike's page, etc) keep speculating that PB needs these sales (copious flash sales in the past year) to get wave two done, but I think the flash sales, grab bags, and whatnot are how they make up for shortcomings; turning excess stock into cash, even at a reduced level of efficiency.

There's no way they're going to fund a half million dollar production and shipping run with pencils and mousepads, not on a community as small and insular as they are.

 Forar wrote:
There's no way they're going to fund a half million dollar production and shipping run with pencils and mousepads, not on a community as small and insular as they are.

That is why this situation is so funny / strange.

Say despite my expectations, PB had been spending the money "correctly" and just plain ran out.
The logical thing to do is say:"Hey we do have this stuff GHQ is helping us out to make, we need the money, could you buy pretty please?".
Even I would buy the stuff, it is not vaporware, it is on-hand and gets me more models: win-win.

Since I am assuming they bought too much retail stock I refuse to give them any money and hold them accountable to pay for wave 2.
So say, they admit they messed that up too:"We thought RRT was going to go like crazy so we have way too many starter boxes: buy pretty please?".
Bring it down to $40 and I would buy two.
I bet they would still make a profit on it, not as much as they would like, but it would still be liquid money on-hand rather than unmoving stock.

I think for Kevin's entire career he has seen it pay-off to do a long print-run for cost efficiency and hold onto the stock: he has the space.
Then just a slow trickle of product being bought and it keeps the lights on.
I think he puts more "stock" in a large selection of product available than put energy in new releases (then you have to pay people to make stuff).
He is then able to exercise his creative juices writing the various missives we know and love trying to hawk his wares to a progressively shrinking audience.

I want my models.
I want to ignore PB so bad: it is what they deserve (plus a few public warnings of their "pre-order" scams).

If I had known PB was such a joke of a company, I wouldnt have pledged :/

I can't claim ignorance as I knew they were screw ups from two decades of RPG gaming (including a 10+ year Rifts campaign) but I believed them when they said they were NOT going to be doing the work and that the work was 98% DONE.

It was the Ninja Division "in-charge" bait and switch that was our downfail. (intentional misspell).
I am really looking forward to the day where I can tell them to stuff their weekly spam letter.
But you know, it is just that slightly more informative and more frequent than their Kickstarter "updates".

This has gone on so long at this point that I lost all interest in playing RRT, went back to 40k, stopped playing 40k for 6 months, and am now going back to 40k and there is still no end in sight.

I still can't find a single interested player within 50 miles either.

In the time since RRT campaign finished:

I've gotten into X-Wing, picked up Star Trek Attack Wing, bought D&D Attack Wing, picked up All Quiet on the Martian Front, filled out my Dust American and German army, learned Warmahordes (with starter armies for Crix, Ouroboros, Kaldor, Everblight, and the blue guys), splurged on AT-43, painted my Tyranids army, got my son a Necron army (and finished my Necron army), got my other son an Ork army, tried out my IG army (after bulking it up and painting it), had both Zombicide 2 and 3 kickstarters start, finish and deliver, bought into a played the Alien encounter deckbuilding game, painted my Vampire Counts army, learned Kings of War and wrote, edited and released my own Crimson Empire campaign sourcebook while waiting for this flipping KS to complete.