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Merijeek wrote:
PB seems to have lost their final free laborer.

There will be no further progress.

There are usually more (almost) free laborers waiting over at the Palladium forums. They've got dozens of Rifters full of them. As for "further progress", they don't seem to help much anyways as the bottleneck is always the same.

my Cats Eye is Airborne:

Looks nice. I'd recommend gently filing the geometric edges of the radar dish into a circle.

 warboss wrote:
Looks nice. I'd recommend gently filing the geometric edges of the radar dish into a circle.

was going to do that, but the material is not that sturdy while being too tough, if that makes sense? gonna rework the dish anyway.

Well, I can go back to the low-tech method.
I would typically modify an existing model and then make a mold for it and pound out the copies.
If you wish to say "pictures or it never happened" I recently saw the box of them kicking around so I could prove something.
(For an idea of how long ago, made my own Thousand Son CSM bits before they existed)Problem is: am I a true fan and willing to styrene up a VT for the "super" and then the armored?
I do not enjoy the thought of making Zent. vehicles from scratch, maybe a printed "donation" could get that going.

If by some miracle I get motivated enough to make molds, I would agree to destroy them if PB is likewise motivated to produce wave 2.

Heh, if you include today, it has been 666 days since the original December 2013 release target (going from the end of the month, which I think is a generous take on the matter).

Fitting for the near-halloween period of the year.

Extrapolating the "Maybe Oct/Nov" part isn't hard, but I refuse to dignify those with even the cursory subtraction necessary.

 Forar wrote:
Heh, if you include today, it has been 666 days since the original December 2013 release target (going from the end of the month, which I think is a generous take on the matter).

Fitting for the near-halloween period of the year.

Extrapolating the "Maybe Oct/Nov" part isn't hard, but I refuse to dignify those with even the cursory subtraction necessary.

Since the projects is so upside down when will we reach 999?

 warboss wrote:

Joyboozer wrote:
I do wish everybody would stop so harsh on Palladium. I'd like to see how long it would take any of you to get any work completed when you had to turn off all the lights and hide under your desks pretending nobody's there every time a bill collector knocks on the door, telephones or sends an email!
Kevin doesn't lie!

Yeah, leave Kevin alone! Unless every person here has managed to completely screw up a $1 million plus project and piss off thousands of people at the same time by trying to run out the liability clock for a year, you don't have the necessary expertise to comment on what he's going through!

I'm sorry, but that needs the appropriate GIF:


Because you just know his hard-hitting truth-telling team is holding him accountable and Wave 2 will be his best work ever.

 Mike1975 wrote:

 Forar wrote:
Heh, if you include today, it has been 666 days since the original December 2013 release target (going from the end of the month, which I think is a generous take on the matter).

Fitting for the near-halloween period of the year.

Extrapolating the "Maybe Oct/Nov" part isn't hard, but I refuse to dignify those with even the cursory subtraction necessary.

Since the projects is so upside down when will we reach 999?

333 days from today. Which would be September 24, 2016.

Anyone want to pretend we'll actually see Wave Two by then?

On the slim to none chance theyll actually complete this project, that's right after gencon where they'll be forced to sell it to new customers first before backers... You know.... For our own good. Remember, it hurts them more than it does us to try and screw us over. Ironically, there is a grain of truth in that long term if you think about it. The money they COULD have made from me but won't as a lowly battlecry backer in macross as well as the other eras easily dwarfs the money I'm losing by them not fulfilling wave 2.


Automatically Appended Next Post:



From my YouTube feed. The next palladium related kickstarter. If robotech had gone as planned, I'd have backed this in a minute. As it stands right now I don't feel like supporting anything that feeds back to palladium until I get what was promised 666 days ago.

I actually picked up the Grel MPA and Miriya FPA con exclusives with the intent of casting up some for my own use.

I then took the cast parts and with some cutting was able to modify some of them to add some variety. Photos are here:

FPA Squad (alternate link if it doesn't show: https://goo.gl/photos/XLraYWTfPETvSsf99


MPA Squad (https://goo.gl/photos/ViXTDSBQSZkgKk9u5


Nousgarma Ger WIP (https://goo.gl/photos/5gHTt431YeEipPuH8)


And these amatuerish kit bashes were done with a DIY casting kit over a month spending an hour or 2 a week. Replace me with someone with the proper skill set and equipment and imagine what could be done.

I'm currently debating whether I want to give PB more money to get a Miriya Super Valk. It'd be easy enough to cast up the parts to convert the current valk kits to Supers. I've got some spare Valk sprues so I'd probably just cast up copies of the legs, torsos and wings. I've got enough spare heads and arms. I've also got an idea of how I'd do the armored valk using parts from the Spartan, Tomahawk and Phalanx destroids. Just need to figure out how to do the armored arms and midsection. I've even considered converting up my own VF-1Ds and VE-1s. BTW, does anyone know how well the top of a Tau shield drone would work as a radome for the VE-1?

 Talizvar wrote:
Well, I can go back to the low-tech method.
I would typically modify an existing model and then make a mold for it and pound out the copies.
If you wish to say "pictures or it never happened" I recently saw the box of them kicking around so I could prove something.
(For an idea of how long ago, made my own Thousand Son CSM bits before they existed)

Spoiler:

Typically I used low melt metal as the pour material.
In this case some resin would be in order.
The link here is very similar how I did mine: http://www.starshipmodeler.com/basics/jc_molds.htm.
Smooth-on has pretty much anything you would want.
Do not underestimate the extreme utility of lego mold design.
I usually went a step further and cast a plaster box around the rubber mold to ensure it was stable (kept it cool to handle when dealing with molten metal).
The molds do not degrade (much), how well you set up pins and joins for alignment, the gating and sprue paths to the part will determine the quality of the mold.
It seemed to be too much like work at first making them but became awesome when you pounded out some 30-odd figures.

Problem is: am I a true fan and willing to styrene up a VT for the "super" and then the armored?
I do not enjoy the thought of making Zent. vehicles from scratch, maybe a printed "donation" could get that going.

If by some miracle I get motivated enough to make molds, I would agree to destroy them if PB is likewise motivated to produce wave 2.

At least they're not keeping us in the dark, right guys?

cannonfodr wrote:
I'm currently debating whether I want to give PB more money to get a Miriya Super Valk. It'd be easy enough to cast up the parts to convert the current valk kits to Supers. I've got some spare Valk sprues so I'd probably just cast up copies of the legs, torsos and wings. I've got enough spare heads and arms. I've also got an idea of how I'd do the armored valk using parts from the Spartan, Tomahawk and Phalanx destroids. Just need to figure out how to do the armored arms and midsection. I've even considered converting up my own VF-1Ds and VE-1s. BTW, does anyone know how well the top of a Tau shield drone would work as a radome for the VE-1?

I'm actually working on a super Valk booster and leg pack, got the boosters done and such still need to do the leg armor though for it though, but not easy doing the right size and such to fit these valks

cannonfodr wrote:

And these amatuerish kit bashes were done with a DIY casting kit over a month spending an hour or 2 a week. Replace me with someone with the proper skill set and equipment and imagine what could be done.

I imagine something like these?




People are out there with the skill and ability but they tend not to want to deal with Palladium's BS.

 paulson games wrote:

cannonfodr wrote:

And these amatuerish kit bashes were done with a DIY casting kit over a month spending an hour or 2 a week. Replace me with someone with the proper skill set and equipment and imagine what could be done.

I imagine something like these?

Spoiler:

People are out there with the skill and ability but they tend not to want to deal with Palladium's BS.

those the minis you showed PB ?

True. I get the feeling that the only one they'd be able to get to work for them is Tony Reidy if they could actually find what rock he's hiding under.

Man would that be a nightmare if they announced that.

 paulson games wrote:
People are out there with the skill and ability but they tend not to want to deal with Palladium's BS.

 paulson games wrote:

cannonfodr wrote:

And these amatuerish kit bashes were done with a DIY casting kit over a month spending an hour or 2 a week. Replace me with someone with the proper skill set and equipment and imagine what could be done.

I imagine something like these?

Spoiler:

People are out there with the skill and ability but they tend not to want to deal with Palladium's BS.

Those look nice. Clearly, they have to be, like, a hundred pieces each.

Those are *very* nice. What material? Resin? 3-D print?

Also, how big?

 Krinsath wrote:

Joyboozer wrote:
No, we'd get a lot of empty plastic bags with the promise of making the instructions on how to make ice at a later date. Possibly relying a super fan to make the instructions for them, and still not bother posting them.

Based on PB's track record thus far, they'd rely on a literal fan to make ice and then wonder why it isn't working. It does seem as though basic concepts elude them at times. Then they would state the fan wasn't enough of a super-fan, and they feel super sorry that they ever trusted it as an appliance to begin with and they'll keep looking for a way to reduce the temperature because you guys...you guys deserve the best. You won't get it from PB perhaps, but it's what you deserve.

They wouldn't even get that far. The Chinese have told them it is impossible to combine hydrogen and oxygen to create the water, let alone sculpt it in ice (with a chainsaw, of course).

Asterios wrote:
those the minis you showed PB ?

Yes those are some of the ones that got this whole ball rolling. It pains me to see that it's turned into such a turdball since then, but I don't have any hand in that as my dealings with PB were ended well before they even approached ND.

Merijeek wrote:
Those look nice. Clearly, they have to be, like, a hundred pieces each.

Lol, Part count on the Tomahawk is 8 peices. 2 legs, hip, torso, 2 arms, missile launcher and search light. It has as much poseability as the RRT version it could be further reduced down to about 4-5 pieces if given a single pose. Most of the RDF mechs could be done in metal with 4-8 pieces with fixed pose models. (10-12 pieces for more poseable stuff)

The Zentraedi pod has more parts but mainly because of the lasers. Without the lasers it'd be 6 pieces, and 10-12 parts depending how the lasers are and if you allow for mobility between the hips and torso.

(I think the Zentraedi stuff is by far the best out of the available RRT models, the sculpting to me looks like it was done by a different artist than the RDF stuff)

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Those are *very* nice. What material? Resin? 3-D print?

Also, how big?

They are about 3 mm taller than the RRT models, so pretty much the same scale.

The original prints were done in 2010 on an Objet printer which had a quality equal to shapeways white detail (and cost about $50), which is absolutely horrible print quality nowdays but it was alright at the time considering what else was available. If I had reprinted them now they'd be much, much better. The original print required a lot of clean up work by hand, a modern print would need almost none. The one pictured is a resin cast of the print. I was advising metal for production as it would have captured the detail just fine.

Given my background with both resin and metal minis I know that there's a proven and well understood production process for metal models and it could have been made in the US (to eliminate overseas difficulties). The price for core units would be higher because the plastics reduced core units to under $2 on the KS IIRC where metal ones would have needed to be in the $6-8 range for a KS and about $12-$14 at retail. I make metal models that are comparable in size to RRT (or slightly larger) and that pricing is based on the ones I produce, the RRT pieces could be produced with a smaller part count than what I do which would keep their costs less than what I currently do. I also deal with a much smaller production size and many companies are willing to offer a lower rate when the order is done in bulk.

It's certainly not a perfect solution, but it's significantly less expensive than the start up costs needed for plastics. The "Loss of Detail" phrase that's tossed about by PB and their fans is a bit of a scapegoat/boogeyman from people who have no clue about making minis, metals work just fine for detailed minis, take a gander at the Infinity line for proof of well done metals and those are roughly half the size of RRT stuff. I ran tests with a selection of my models, some in resin and some in metal, took photos of them with primer applied and very few few people could correctly pick out which ones were which. As long as the caster is good there's really not a significant visual difference in quality between resin and metal. (the handling and material properties vary a lot though)

well had to do some retooling on my Alpha Fighter but here it is:

Thanks very much for the details, it's greatly appreciated.

It's pretty amazing how the 3D print technology has progressed.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Thanks very much for the details, it's greatly appreciated.

It's pretty amazing how the 3D print technology has progressed.

It's like computers, they progress at an amazing rate. What was a top of the line PC 5 years ago is pretty dated by now. Printers are the same way, I just ordered a printer that is capable of working at 30 microns, where 5 years ago an objet machine was printing at 75 microns. The desktop printer runs under $5k and is considerably better where the objet ran around $60k+ at the time.

A current generation Objet printer can get down to 16 microns which is insanely good but runs well over $200k, so it's not an option for me.

The speed at which these are evolving is pretty staggering and we're going to see printing technology get even better within the next few years and it's already having a huge impact on the miniatures field, I'm quite interested to see where it goes from here.

Yes, we'll all have affordable high quality 3D printers and be doing our own stuff, meanwhile Palladium will stil be struggling to put up the paper minis files.

Paulson, do the high end 3D printers suffer any of the same issues as the older models in regards to drooping etc, or are they more forgiving of poorly thought out designs?

I'm not up on all the technical details of the various high end printers, I've typically let the guys I outsourced to handle those details and just say here's my model, print the best you can. I do know that several of the newer machines are using a process now that layers and cures resin while the model is submerged. Depending on how the model is built it helps eliminate some, if not all of the need for support structure.

The tension from support materials often is what causes a model to bend. It prints straight but once you remove the supports it starts to bend slightly because there's a bit of natural spring to the print. It can also be minimized by how the model is positioned and how much cure time they allow etc, which comes down to the skill and experience of the person doing the printing.

While I've been doing the 3d modelling for a while I'm still just starting to dip my toes with directly printing my own models. I like being able to directly take them through every step of the process, but that isn't really isn't needed provide you have people working for you with the correct skill set.

 Forar wrote:
Let's see where things stand.

- Days since the last update: 21 (apparently we're now on a monthly schedule, which would be fine if they actually had anything pertinent to say in them)
- Days since Wayne said he'd give us a full breakdown on the status of all the pieces: **110**
- Days since the last substantial Wave 2 info: 241

- Days until the end of 2015: 65
- Days until the end of Q1 2016: 156
- Days until Gencon 2016: 280
- Days until the end of 2016: 431

Trimmed some editorial snark, but for those who only swing by to see what's going on once in a while, this is the kind of gak we're dealing with.

This isn't "oh people on Kickstarter are so impatient". It's been 8 fething months since they shared more than vague assertions about delivery, and 110 bloody days since they were supposed to collect info on the state of the figures.

That's a pretty damning AND embarrassing list there for PB - hard to imagine that they could spin that in any positive way whatsoever.

OK, My Bandai SDF-1 could be here as early as a week on Friday from Japan, and by next Monday I could have a Vexar from the Revell Robotech range. Don't know if I can get the Revell Space Fortress SDF-1 for £33 before it sells but I hope so. It would go well with the one I have in the other mode.

So with that, my interest in the PB effort has officially dropped to Zero.

PB's efforts over the last year or so have rapidly dropped to below zero utility. [Yes, they are worse than useless. Their lack of verifiable progress and lack of meaningful communication have damaged not only their reputation, but also that of their partners and their IP. I am just glad that in fact Macross is not their IP and I can get my fix elsewhere - as I will not give PB another cent!]

Given the head start that Paulson should have been able to get them, and the efforts of others which have been showcased in this very thread recently, PB ought to be ashamed of themselves for their lack of verifiable progress. [Pics, or it didn't happen, guys!] I would back most of the efforts shown here even if I would specifically request no reward just to support the sort of people that can get what they need done in a timeframe that puts PB's woeful efforts to shame.

PB, you have taken a dream, broken it into an unnecessarily high number of bits, drooled over it, and taken over a year longer than originally planned [a Martian year, that is (687 Earth days long)] and it is still possible that they will complete this within a year of starting the campaign [Jupiter year, that is.(4332 Earth days long] but still, some of the people on here seem to have been able to do in mere Earth months what PB cannot do in a Martian year!

To be fair Macross is way cooler than Robotech. Have you seen Macross Frontier yet? I'd sell an organ for 1/300 scale models of the Macross Quarter. I think the trick would be to get the entity in control of the Macross property to create a miniature wargame.

They'll probably be quite busy for the time being, what with them making a new series (Macross Delta) and all that ^^.





Yep, they do indeed still make stuff!

 Alpharius wrote:
.

That's a pretty damning AND embarrassing list there for PB - hard to imagine that they could spin that in any positive way whatsoever.