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No. Kevin deserves much, much more than that.

Unfortunately, the chances of him ever seeing any of what he deserves are approximately the same as us seeing any progress on wave 2 this year, never mind actually getting complete, acceptable product in our hands.

I'm curious to see if they'll claim, for the fourth year in a row, decisively, that RRT *will* be done this year.

It's practically a tradition now.

New year arrives, PB claims they'll finish RRT, everyone has a big laugh, etc.

 Forar wrote:
I'm curious to see if they'll claim, for the fourth year in a row, decisively, that RRT *will* be done this year.

It's practically a tradition now.

New year arrives, PB claims they'll finish RRT, everyone has a big laugh, etc.

Hey, they can just cut and paste their one from 2014, given the Q2 expectation. Here, I'll do it for them.
"@Forar: Robotech RPG Tactics, the game Wave Two, will be at Gen Con. For sale. In quantity. There's not much question about that. (I realize some folks on here are questioning it, but there's no doubt in my mind.) We hope to have it well in advance of that, but the particulars of just how well in advance are what we're still sorting out. I'm about to write up an update to post here, btw."

While looking for that, I found another post from a couple months later (March 18, 2014), that contains...
"We're sorry about the delay in delivering the rewards for this project, but it is coming, and soon. There is no question about whether we will deliver. If something were to happen that would cause us to be unable to deliver, we would, of course, offer refunds as Kickstarter's terms dictate. But that is not the case here; not even close. We'll deliver as promised, as soon as we can. Wave One will deliver in June or July, as we've said before. Wave Two by the end of the year, hopefully well before."

Just curious when PB thinks "unable to deliver" applies, given we're now a year beyond that nine month (again) schedule for completion, with nothing to show for it.

Looks like Sedition Wars made some great Zentraedi standins. Here are a few......I think there are like 6 different minis. Most box sets come with 22 minis and cost around $30.

 Cypher-xv wrote:
Jefffar

It's been mentioned several times by backers in the fans of PB page. Some of them still complain to this day that they haven't received their phone call from Kevin.

Can you show me please?

Good luck with that, Cypher.

"Searching" FB groups is just the most obnoxious thing.

 Mike1975 wrote:
Looks like Sedition Wars made some great Zentraedi standins. Here are a few......I think there are like 6 different minis. Most box sets come with 22 minis and cost around $30.

there is actually more then 22 figures per set

Asterios wrote:

 Mike1975 wrote:
Looks like Sedition Wars made some great Zentraedi standins. Here are a few......I think there are like 6 different minis. Most box sets come with 22 minis and cost around $30.

there is actually more then 22 figures per set

True, but the rest are zombies. I'm tempted to making them a distinct faction in and of themselves just to avoid waste.

Not to worry, Mike... the official minis will be out estimated Dec 2013 definitely 2014 end of year 2015 ideally 2016... um... yeah, just go with the Sedition Wars stuff instead.

Can you post pics of the SW minis you're talking about next to some battlepods for a size comparison?

 warboss wrote:
Not to worry, Mike... the official minis will be out estimated Dec 2013 definitely 2014 end of year 2015 ideally 2016... um... yeah, just go with the Sedition Wars stuff instead.

Can you post pics of the SW minis you're talking about next to some battlepods for a size comparison?

Yeah, that's the reason why I bought them

I don't have a side by side but will try. Here are some painted pics though (not mine)

 Forar wrote:
Good luck with that, Cypher.

"Searching" FB groups is just the most obnoxious thing.

No kidding. The last thing I'm doing is to try and go look through months of posts just to say I told you so.


Jefffer you are more than free to go on FB and ask yourself. That and what's the point? Kevin has bigger problems on his plate like getting wave two out. If anything your request comes off as a wild goose chase (yes I get the irony of that statement) to get away from the real problem which is Kevin's inability to finish rrt.

It also kind of boils down to nitpicking minutia.

We can all agree that PB's development time is longer than they claim, even in the face of reality.

Kevin himself admits that a simple (non-creative, non production) aspect of the campaign went unattended to for a very long time.

The whole thing is kind of endemic, in my eyes, of a frustrating aspect of the campaign's backers and chatter; a 'purity testing' of criticism. It's not just enough to be critical, but one has to be sufficiently critical or it's not enough and needs correcting. It's a nuance between "adding further insight/information" and an obnoxious need to 'correct' posts that aren't sufficiently critical.

Yes, the original point was a questionable statement regarding the allegedly (but unproven) unfinished NG1/2 Campaigns. That might've gone a bit far, and I'm not trying to move goalposts (especially since it wasn't my point to begin with). Being that late on something that could've been knocked off in an afternoon is rather uncomfortably relatable to what we've been going through for the last 31'ish months.

And as others have noted and I'd like to address again, it's one thing to have grandiose dreams of launching a dozen books in a year when they rarely break 2 or 3, it's another to have grandiose dreams of launching a product line that was paid for up front by thousands of backers. By that comparison, sure the NG1/2 campaigns were heavily delayed (as is their way), but they're not an excuse. If anything, they're yet another missed opportunity for them to learn, for self-reflection, for recognition that perhaps that estimate should include a wee bit more contingency time than they generally provide.

But that ship has sailed, so now it's just silence and vague name drops about conference calls. Ever since people began prodding them with actual action reaching out to AG's and the BBB and the FTC and whatnot, it's taken a very "token name drop of working on RRT" aspect in their weekly updates, while conversely removing more and more until they just removed the section entirely (the "Update: Robotech Tactics" section has been in just 1 of the last 6 newsletters). It only seems to show up as the "AVAILABLE NOW!" copy paste down below in the long list of gak they're eternally hawking.

Apologies if I've been on a bit of a mixed rant/ramble, it's been a long day, and I'm kind of just getting out some things that have been rattling around for a while. I entirely agree that they should be held accountable for things they've actually done or failed to do. If those calls did get made as Kevin said they would, great. I mean, not great, being a year and a half(ish) behind, but better than being 3 or 4 years behind.

I suppose I just don't think "hey, they totally delivered on these much smaller projects, and they were pretty late on those (what, 2 to 3 times or so the original targets?)" isn't making them seem any less 'mustache twirling'. Proclamations of 'we're totes doing stuffs!' pack exactly zero weight. Talk is cheap. Show don't tell. *jazz hands* etc.

They stated half a year ago an intention to do better. If anything they've proceeded to do worse. It's not unfair to call them out on their bullgak when we can't even get a factual update of product status. They don't have renders or prototypes to show? Fine (not fine, but whatever), they don't need them for Wayne to finally drop that list he promised us six months ago.

Super VT: done in all 3 modes, ready for mold milling.
FPA: Design done, fourth revision of sprue breakdown ongoing.
MPA: mold milled.

Etc.

That doesn't need to be impressive, it doesn't need to be engrossing or fluffed up. Just the facts, sir/ma'am.

I honestly think Kevin IS capable of finishing RRT, he just has "reasons" that compel him not to do it.
At the very least, he probably figures we have sucked-up too much of his time already and he has more valuable RPG stuff to do.
I am sure the return on investment so-far on his $1.4 million for wave 1 is leaving a sour taste in his mouth and will have to perform damage control with these spendthrift suppliers.

I just wish they would admit defeat. Show the balance sheet at $0 and just be done with it.

It's not like their reputation could get any worse. Most backers probably won't take individual action, and they can buy off the few that do. And they'd probably even look like a less juicy target for the AG as a company that tried and failed instead of company that continues to actively deceive.

If you have a loosing hand, you fold. You don't keep throwing money into the pot(ya' know, metaphorically speaking, cause they have no money left).

 CaulynDarr wrote:
I just wish they would admit defeat. Show the balance sheet at $0 and just be done with it.

It's not like their reputation could get any worse. Most backers probably won't take individual action, and they can buy off the few that do. And they'd probably even look like a less juicy target for the AG as a company that tried and failed instead of company that continues to actively deceive.

If you have a loosing hand, you fold. You don't keep throwing money into the pot(ya' know, metaphorically speaking, cause they have no money left).

If we're delving into poker terminology, I think most folks who follow them long enough know Palladium's tells and that the only move they ever make is to bluff regardless of the hand they have. They don't ever fold! They only lose because the former employee/partner/china/etc are dirty stinkin' cheaters!

 warboss wrote:

 CaulynDarr wrote:
I just wish they would admit defeat. Show the balance sheet at $0 and just be done with it.

It's not like their reputation could get any worse. Most backers probably won't take individual action, and they can buy off the few that do. And they'd probably even look like a less juicy target for the AG as a company that tried and failed instead of company that continues to actively deceive.

If you have a loosing hand, you fold. You don't keep throwing money into the pot(ya' know, metaphorically speaking, cause they have no money left).

If we're delving into poker terminology, I think most folks who follow them long enough know Palladium's tells and that the only move they ever make is to bluff regardless of the hand they have. They don't ever fold! They only lose because the former employee/partner/china/etc are dirty stinkin' cheaters!

I guess you're right. Palladium is terrible at games.

Well if Jeffars posts are anything to go by, looks like we'll be getting another long winded guys it's totally everyone's fault but ours, we've always completed 100 % of our projects in the past, update.
They're just currently fact checking, as usual getting someone else, forar, to check for them so to avoid embarrassment if it turned out to be only 98% true.
And on the villan debate, it really doesn't matter if someone is evil or just stupid when the end result is the same, either way they shouldn't be taking people's money.

I favour a short update in a couple of weeks , briefly stating that they were all set to get down to meaningful discussions with the manufacturer and would you believe it it was Chinese New Year again. Kevin wlill admit his experts never told him it was every year and so it was their fault. So that lets them off the hook for another two. months.

Next, it will be too busy preparing for Adepticon and then Gencon oh and suddenly its 2017, where did that year go, we must have been working so hard we missed it - I blame all that geese watching and going to the trick cyclist for therepy sessions

Ahhhh that feels good to get that load of sarcasm of my chest

If Palladium really is that stupid, they should be liquidated to pay backers.

I found this....might help you Forar if you have not found it already...

http://miniset.net/cfp/kickstarter-1295579858?page=6&language=ru&qt-cfp=1

got Max's VF-1A and VF-1J fighters done, next the Guardians or Battloids? ?

Guardians. Nice pics, Rick.

@Mike: what insights is that Russian site supposed to show?

 Cypher-xv wrote:

 Forar wrote:
Good luck with that, Cypher.

"Searching" FB groups is just the most obnoxious thing.

No kidding. The last thing I'm doing is to try and go look through months of posts just to say I told you so.


Jefffer you are more than free to go on FB and ask yourself. That and what's the point? Kevin has bigger problems on his plate like getting wave two out. If anything your request comes off as a wild goose chase (yes I get the irony of that statement) to get away from the real problem which is Kevin's inability to finish rrt.

Actually for me it's a matter of to my knowledge, all rewards had been completed for the NG projects. If I am wrong, I'm wrong and will retract it. But I want proof I'm wrong first.

 warboss wrote:
Guardians. Nice pics, Rick.

@Mike: what insights is that Russian site supposed to show?

The interactive timeline thing is a bit of fun, if you zoom in a bit so it isn't just noise. Showing the scarcity of Updates, especially in the last couple months, as a comparison to prior. Sure, it's not new information, but there's something about seeing a visual representation rather than seeing a list of dates, as you get to "see" the lack of Updates. As an example, seeing that there were six Updates in June (one was the double post where they were "restarting the conversation"), and six Updates since, is easier to comprehend, when seen as a graph.

 warboss wrote:
Guardians. Nice pics, Rick.

@Mike: what insights is that Russian site supposed to show?

Forar has been posting a timeline for stuff for a while. If you scroll down it has the dates for all the updates. You can also click on the Brit flag at the top and change it to English.

It is interesting to see it laid out like that, though I have thought that until their sudden and abrupt move to silence, they were generally pretty good about having an update per week or so (some were missed).

The quantity of the updates was fine (hell, I don't mind them being less frequent if they have substantial things to say/share), but the quality has long suffered. They have "updates"; a literal KS Update added to the tab, but it often doesn't say anything. Vague assertions of 'we're working on it!' but nothing to offer beyond that.

I do appreciate it being shared, simply wanted to clarify that I wouldn't mind an update per 2 or 3 weeks, hell even a monthly one, if they just *said something worth reading*.

It has been a long time since they were anything but sales pitches and obvious "checking off 'gave backers an update'" so they can say that they gave us an update, without any appreciation for the nuance that we haven't seen evidence of wave two making progress in what is approaching a year.

The fact that they think that's okay is not acceptable. If they were told by a printer that they had a slot for a book run next month, paid up front, and then only got half of what they paid for after 2-3 months, with no actual idea when they'd get the rest, they'd be screaming blue murder, I'm sure.

But that's the problem, when Palladium make purchases they are a customer, when someone buys from palladium they are a fan/friend. Its an excuse for palladium to treat them as such, the fans will understand, our friends will make allowances, they will wait because it will be so worth it.
A customer is entitled to what they pay for, a customer has expectations and a customer has rights.
This is what Palladium need to realize.

 Forar wrote:

Jefffar wrote:
Thats great, but I was specifically referencing the mention that the calls are still outstanding. Your most recent update is more than 2 years old. Do we have confirmation that these are still not complete?

That's great? As I said, that's what I found with a little cursory google'ing. Unless someone wants to pay my hourly rate, I'm not putting hours into a fully cited endeavour.

If only there were some way someone, perhaps a moderator of their forums, could check into this? Certainly at least a few of the people making noise ON THE FORUMS could be contacted by someone on those forums.

Crazy thought, I know. I wonder if they have some sort of person who does some sort of work there, I think the term is moderator, who could look into that?

Mike1975 wrote:Forar has been posting a timeline for stuff for a while. If you scroll down it has the dates for all the updates. You can also click on the Brit flag at the top and change it to English.

 Mike1975 wrote:
Forar has been posting a timeline for stuff for a while. If you scroll down it has the dates for all the updates. You can also click on the Brit flag at the top and change it to English.

Thanks for the clarification and tip.

Has anyone thought about doing some other custom mecha like the VF-2SS or VF-2J from Macross 2? I know that's the bastard stepchild of the series but I'm a fan of the mecha in that as they're a bit more modern but not totally gundammed out like subsequent macross series. The closest I've seen of the Macross 2 designs is from a gashapon set and only in jet mode unfortunately.

Something like this?