Robotech® RPG Tactics™-License lost, the end is near!

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**winterdyne**

Merijeek wrote:
Stormonu wrote:
winterdyne wrote:

Edit: Also, you have to remember that Kickstarter is NOT an investment, nor a purchase. It is in effect a donation of money, which is refundable if the rewards promised are not achievable. What the money is spent on, as long as there is a good faith* attempt to deliver all rewards, is irrelevant.

Regardless of how KS or PB wants it to be true, that's a bunch of BS. The RRT KS was nothing more than a preorder, in the same way I could have order GTA 5 before it came out. They can't explain away the backerkit (where *specific* items were ordered). If it were a donation, everyone would have recieved the same thing - a boxed set, a t-shirt or whatever. Not specific items of specific value each.

Yeah. I'm sorry, but if I'm giving you a specific amount of money, for a specific type and quantity of product, and we even reach the point where you are REQUIRED to give me a refund if you don't supply said product for said money...

That's a purchase. Pretending otherwise is ridiculous.

It's got nothing to do with PB or KS, and everything to do with the 2013 Kickstarter terms of service. That forms the contract for your base pledge, and binds us as much as it does PB. Backer kit is a preorder and clearly states itself to as such, so whatever legislation is in place for that applies.

Please, please read through those terms and when you complain to whatever body you wish to (and you should!), do so from the contractual standpoint you are actually in, it makes things stick better.

**evilsmurf**

There are a few white knights but their tactic seems to be for one to attack at a time and taking it in turns who'll do it that week, which after a while feels suspiciously coordinated. Most are freelance wanabees including;
Prince Artemis
Akashic Soldier
Warwolf
Have to say, havent seen much of them lately though.

**Mike1975**

evilsmurf wrote:
There are a few white knights but their tactic seems to be for one to attack at a time and taking it in turns who'll do it that week, which after a while feels suspiciously coordinated. Most are freelance wanabees including;
Prince Artemis
Akashic Soldier
Warwolf
Have to say, havent seen much of them lately though.

Akashic is a Moron.....always defending. One day I pointed out how he was defending without reasoning or evidence, pointing out where it was obvious he had no idea what it was he was talking about based on the points he was touting on about.

His feelings hurt he turned to Jeff NMI who gave me a warning to which I responded and was told to "Be the Better Man". From that I really got annoyed and started the "Being a Better Man" thread. I wish I had a link to that thread on hand.

**Alpharius**

That sounds like an interesting thread - if you can find a link to it, I'd appreciate it!

**jaymz**

evilsmurf wrote:
There are a few white knights but their tactic seems to be for one to attack at a time and taking it in turns who'll do it that week, which after a while feels suspiciously coordinated. Most are freelance wanabees including;
Prince Artemis
Akashic Soldier
Warwolf
Have to say, havent seen much of them lately though.

Prince Artemis - Host of Gateway to the Megaverse.... was supposedly writing a book for Palladium... also has some very odd political ideas at times and yes will defended Palladium blindly in the face of actual evidence. IIRC he was one of the ones that was screaming about me to prove my statements and claims in regards to Facebook.

Akashic Soldier - I believe he has been permanently banned for his crap. He was usually one of the first to scream "you;re obviously not intelligent enough to understand he rules" even when shown EXACTLY why and how a rule was broken or did not work as written. He;d also purposefully go into threads and inflame things...repeatedly to get them locked. Mind you he also claimed to be a published author with many credits to his various pseudonyms (like ghost writing for Young Justice) even though you will find ZERO items published by his actual name....he claimed to have been in a biker gang, homeless, part of the Australian military (special forces no less iirc), to have had to survive by stealing dog food from neighbouring dogs etc, lived alone in the outback, so on and so forth...all before the age of 30 so yeah he's a nutter. He also threatened ME with lawsuits for people "slandering/committing libel" against him on the Facebook group I created and to just shut him up he became he that will not be named because honestly I didn't need the fracking headache. When you have someone creating multiple groups slamming you and and calling for a boycott of ANY material you work on....yeah you're Class A nutter.

Edit - also there was a rumour, that seems to bear fruit though based solely on hearsay that Akashic Soldier also bribed NMI by helping replace a significant number of books in NMI's Palladium Library that he previously had to sell off for financial reasons.

Warwolf - him....I've not encounter much beyond his occasional update that his Nightspawn sourcebook (no I will not call it by it;s other name) is totes coming soon. (And has been for multiple years at this point)

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alpharius wrote:
That sounds like an interesting thread - if you can find a link to it, I'd appreciate it!

That thread will not be found. As is Palladium;s way they lock a thread they don;t like and then eventually remove it altogether.

Here is one though that shows Akashic's ignorance though he act's like he is an expert and knows what he is talking about.

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=97&t=142688

**Talizvar**

Yikes!
I have obviously taken for granted my knowledge of model manufacture and preparation.
"Snap together" indeed.
Good job with the Jorel / Forar / Steve combo of keeping it "constructive" in that forum.
Some interesting drama to that small community.
I shudder to think what it would take to bribe Alpharius.

**Stormonu**

winterdyne wrote:
Merijeek wrote:
Stormonu wrote:
winterdyne wrote:

Edit: Also, you have to remember that Kickstarter is NOT an investment, nor a purchase. It is in effect a donation of money, which is refundable if the rewards promised are not achievable. What the money is spent on, as long as there is a good faith* attempt to deliver all rewards, is irrelevant.

Regardless of how KS or PB wants it to be true, that's a bunch of BS. The RRT KS was nothing more than a preorder, in the same way I could have order GTA 5 before it came out. They can't explain away the backerkit (where *specific* items were ordered). If it were a donation, everyone would have recieved the same thing - a boxed set, a t-shirt or whatever. Not specific items of specific value each.

Yeah. I'm sorry, but if I'm giving you a specific amount of money, for a specific type and quantity of product, and we even reach the point where you are REQUIRED to give me a refund if you don't supply said product for said money...

That's a purchase. Pretending otherwise is ridiculous.

It's got nothing to do with PB or KS, and everything to do with the 2013 Kickstarter terms of service. That forms the contract for your base pledge, and binds us as much as it does PB. Backer kit is a preorder and clearly states itself to as such, so whatever legislation is in place for that applies.

Please, please read through those terms and when you complain to whatever body you wish to (and you should!), do so from the contractual standpoint you are actually in, it makes things stick better.

Yes, I'm going to argue from the point it's a breech of contract because PB violated the terms by offering an illegal preorder.

**Conrad Turner**

I so wish people wouldn't go down that route. We'll end up with huge lists of how they broke the terms.
Failed to deliver in a timely manner.
'Were mistaken' about backers getting rewards before retail [in a global marketplace]
Toted non-KS product on the website.
Failed to communicate in any meaningful way with the backers.

Can we also get them on making the air toxic due to all the unicorn farts they are putting out [makes some noise, does nothing productive, kills off backer enthusiasm]?

**Stormonu**

When attempting to get a refund, that's all fair (and legal) game.

While most of them are overall minor quibbles I'd overlook for a company making progress, they add up to legal fodder against PB to get something actually done.

Add to that list the Blast Template, which was supposed to have colored lines (as per the campaign page AND an update). Also, I believe adding folks to their newsletter without permission violates some statuates in EU countries...

**warboss**

Yup, Akashic is/was the biggest offender and the one whose name I couldn't remember. Back when I was still semi-active on the forums there, he had a big dramatic "farewell, cruel world!" going away post/thread where he promised that unlike other drama queens who do that he actually meant it... and then he came back a few months later and started posting. After getting fed up with NMI's gulag ban sweeps, I don't frequent there much anymore beyond the occasional link posted here.

Is he actually gone on his own this time? IIRC he couldn't ever be banned for long no matter how much he flamed critical threads because he just called up Papa Kevin who reversed it after the proper supplications were made. The only possible reason I could see him ever actually leaving the forums for would be the realization that, no matter how much or hard he white knights, he won't be a Palladium book author beyond the occasional fanzine article.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I took a peek at the KS comments and had something to add to that. Since it's mostly the same folks as here and I can't remember my KS password, I'll reply here.

Mike, you made a point on the comments that being ignorant and complicit are two different things and Kevin Siembieda can only be one or the other in regards to the failures of his company's biggest project. I disagree. You're ignoring the third option of willful ignorance that combines the two. Even if he was above the fray during the actual KS and the month after (until the point when Palladium "realized" that they'd have to run things after funding), at that point there is no reasonable way for him not to know how badly things were and continue to be screwed up years later. If he CHOSE to remain ignorant after finding out that he was NOT 98% done but closer to maybe 10% and had NO fething chance of meeting his looming "estimate" of Dec 2013, he is in fact complicit with the screw ups that occurred since. Driving the getaway car filled with masked armed men to the bank and then closing his eyes and turning up the radio real loud while he's parked outside doesn't absolve him of responsibility for what happens inside.

**jaymz**

Pretty sure this time was a perma ban because of just how many reports they were getting on him.

**Mike1975**

warboss wrote:
Yup, Akashic is/was the biggest offender and the one whose name I couldn't remember. Back when I was still semi-active on the forums there, he had a big dramatic "farewell, cruel world!" going away post/thread where he promised that unlike other drama queens who do that he actually meant it... and then he came back a few months later and started posting. After getting fed up with NMI's gulag ban sweeps, I don't frequent there much anymore beyond the occasional link posted here.

Is he actually gone on his own this time? IIRC he couldn't ever be banned for long no matter how much he flamed critical threads because he just called up Papa Kevin who reversed it after the proper supplications were made. The only possible reason I could see him ever actually leaving the forums for would be the realization that, no matter how much or hard he white knights, he won't be a Palladium book author beyond the occasional fanzine article.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I took a peek at the KS comments and had something to add to that. Since it's mostly the same folks as here and I can't remember my KS password, I'll reply here.

Mike, you made a point on the comments that being ignorant and complicit are two different things and Kevin Siembieda can only be one or the other in regards to the failures of his company's biggest project. I disagree. You're ignoring the third option of willful ignorance that combines the two. Even if he was above the fray during the actual KS and the month after (until the point when Palladium "realized" that they'd have to run things after funding), at that point there is no reasonable way for him not to know how badly things were and continue to be screwed up years later. If he CHOSE to remain ignorant after finding out that he was NOT 98% done but closer to maybe 10% and had NO fething chance of meeting his looming "estimate" of Dec 2013, he is in fact complicit with the screw ups that occurred since. Driving the getaway car filled with masked armed men to the bank and then closing his eyes and turning up the radio real loud while he's parked outside doesn't absolve him of responsibility for what happens inside.

Feel free to disagree all you want. We con only guess at the real truth and are assuming a lot to do so.

IF you read what I was saying, you are actually agreeing with me. What I was saying is that from day 1 post KS, I doubt Kevin honestly really knew how much additional work they had to be done and how far away they were from getting that done. Having spoke to him personally in December later that year, the fact that they were far from 98% had just recently be thrown on him. Likely somewhere in late October when they could see that there was no way that they could make that deadline.

What I disagree with is the fact that he was complicit and lied day 1 about the project. The few who know him also understand he sits back and lets it all happen and pretends to soak and bask in his own glory. Once actual work reaches his desk is when he decides to take control and make a mess of things and pretend it is all wrong and that he is the to use his massive experience to fix things.

So, from day one, stupid as it is, he is one of those people who is completely hands off and makes many many assumptions about what is going to show up at his desk. Then months later when something does reach him he needs to fix it and since he does soooo much in his mind, it is more his work than that of the originator. THAT is based on past evidence and actions. That is where his management style is just crap and where he allows himself (almost purposefully) to remain ignorant. So I totally believe his personality has not magically changed and that for the first month or so after the KS ended that he was woefully ignorant of what was going on. This is also aided by employees fearing to just tell him straight what is happening because they know at that point he'll try to take complete control.

I totally agree with you that AFTER that point, he was totally complicit and accountable for his actions. I also think that although ignorant, his management style makes him at fault for what happened before that point. To say he was lying and complicit day one is a total failure to understand his personality, history, and the situation.

So I will continue to correct people who, although they feel personally justified, make seriously bad assumptions.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also think Jaymz may very well agree with this assessment having known Kevin and having had much more extensive experience with them than I have.

**Forar**

Whether or not Kevin was misled, misunderstood, or otherwise, doesn't change that he was referring to the entire project with the infamous 98% statement.

That it was based on bad info (if it was, as they claim) simply makes him negligent in doing his homework before upping the stakes on the biggest project they've ever handled.

Arguing 'oh he totally didn't know!' doesn't actually make it any better. If one of the Project Managers I work with (and yes, Kevin isn't a Hyper Project Managing Super Bad-Ass, but he IS known to be the chokepoint for their entire operation) said "7 months? We'll do it in 5" without having anything to back that up, a couple nerds on the internet whining about it would be the least of their worries.

If this does come down to a legal matter, "oh I said those things without actually knowing it was possible, what do you mean it indicates taking money in bad faith during the Pledge Manager period?" style questions become exceptionally difficult. I'm not a lawyer, but it's my understanding the law does not give one gak if you know it or not. Ignorance of the law is not a defense.

And it's a lot of mental gymnastics to come to a place where they can totally say they're going to deliver (ignorantly as it may be) the whole thing in seven (NO, FIVE!) months, but totally aren't actually speaking about the whole thing. Kevin. The micro-manager. Who apparently wasn't even aware of the scope of the project they were headlining.

"So how many models we making here? Five? Six? THIRTY SIX WHAT THE... eh it'll add what, two weeks to production? Three?"

It requires accepting not only that PB were sitting back and letting ND run things, but also, what, blindly ignoring the KS campaign happening in front of them? Did they do nothing but watch the pledge counter creep upwards and ignore the nearly 100 updates detailing how they were going to deliver not just Battlepods and VTs, but Super VTs and FPA and MAC-II's and MPA and Gnerls and resin bits and and and and?

Anyway, since we're continuing this chatter here, yes, we are certainly both free to believe what we like. However, believing this tale of PB's innocence shattered requires and awful lot of suspension of disbelief (in that I'll bet Kevin has been in business almost as long as Ninja John and his team have been alive.

The only way I can see you even bothering to 'correct' this is if you have inside information from The Man himself, and frankly Kevin (and his crew) are unreliable narrators at best.

You said they thought the 98% thing was about the core only, and despite PB's own words and actions, you continue to assert that somehow you know their words and intent better than they do/did.

Which seems super strange.

**warboss**

Mike1975 wrote:
I totally agree with you that AFTER that point, he was totally complicit and accountable for his actions. I also think that although ignorant, his management style makes him at fault for what happened before that point.

I'm glad we agree on that at least. I would however disagree with you on the timing as this type of mistake extends retroactively. Given his long history of apparent willful ignorance (going back a decade or more to the Bill Coffin posts that detail the same), he has been IMO accountable from Day 1 post funding. He didn't just catch an acute case of the seehearspeaknoevilitis. If anything, what happened on this KS is sadly just a continuation of what he has always done but more obvious by two orders of magnitude congruent with the increased number of backers and the total funding. In the past when he was willfuly ignorant with his own money, the only people who cared were a few super fans on the forums (who if they preordered weren't charged until the actual release). He is instead accountable for everything both in spirit and in letter because it is exactly his chosen style of (mis)management that led us to this point from the day he decided to start the project despite dozens of badly handled projects across the decades that should have altered his company's practices.

**JohnHwangDD**

Ignorance can be a temporary excuse for days, weeks, maybe even a few months.. Years later? Not so much.

And at no point does ignorance excuse responsibility, accountability or culpability.

**Mike1975**

Forar wrote:
Whether or not Kevin was misled, misunderstood, or otherwise, doesn't change that he was referring to the entire project with the infamous 98% statement.

That it was based on bad info (if it was, as they claim) simply makes him negligent in doing his homework before upping the stakes on the biggest project they've ever handled.

Arguing 'oh he totally didn't know!' doesn't actually make it any better. If one of the Project Managers I work with (and yes, Kevin isn't a Hyper Project Managing Super Bad-Ass, but he IS known to be the chokepoint for their entire operation) said "7 months? We'll do it in 5" without having anything to back that up, a couple nerds on the internet whining about it would be the least of their worries.

If this does come down to a legal matter, "oh I said those things without actually knowing it was possible, what do you mean it indicates taking money in bad faith during the Pledge Manager period?" style questions become exceptionally difficult. I'm not a lawyer, but it's my understanding the law does not give one gak if you know it or not. Ignorance of the law is not a defense.

And it's a lot of mental gymnastics to come to a place where they can totally say they're going to deliver (ignorantly as it may be) the whole thing in seven (NO, FIVE!) months, but totally aren't actually speaking about the whole thing. Kevin. The micro-manager. Who apparently wasn't even aware of the scope of the project they were headlining.

"So how many models we making here? Five? Six? THIRTY SIX WHAT THE... eh it'll add what, two weeks to production? Three?"

It requires accepting not only that PB were sitting back and letting ND run things, but also, what, blindly ignoring the KS campaign happening in front of them? Did they do nothing but watch the pledge counter creep upwards and ignore the nearly 100 updates detailing how they were going to deliver not just Battlepods and VTs, but Super VTs and FPA and MAC-II's and MPA and Gnerls and resin bits and and and and?

Anyway, since we're continuing this chatter here, yes, we are certainly both free to believe what we like. However, believing this tale of PB's innocence shattered requires and awful lot of suspension of disbelief (in that I'll bet Kevin has been in business almost as long as Ninja John and his team have been alive.

The only way I can see you even bothering to 'correct' this is if you have inside information from The Man himself, and frankly Kevin (and his crew) are unreliable narrators at best.

You said they thought the 98% thing was about the core only, and despite PB's own words and actions, you continue to assert that somehow you know their words and intent better than they do/did.

Which seems super strange.

On one thing I totally agree here. The style of just letting things happen and not "Managing" is not an effective management style. Hence why PB should have had someone specifically dedicated to this since the first time they spoke to Tom and Paul and decided to work on the ideas.

**warboss**

I hope you guys don't mind if I continue the conversation here. I'm not a fan of the KS comments (although they seemed to have died down somewhat with some of the biggest spammers not posting much anymore) as it's very difficult to follow a conversation there. It's more like following a stock tickertape in the 1920's I'd guess.

**Mike1975**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Ignorance can be a temporary excuse for days, weeks, maybe even a few months.. Years later? Not so much.

And at no point does ignorance excuse responsibility, accountability or culpability.

I never said that to absolve guilt, that was an assumption others made. I was clarifying that he was likely dumbfounded that things were having issues soon after the KS. The fact that he was shows an ineffectual leadership style and also matches the past history of the couple projects a year out of the many promised that have actually been completed over the last 20 years.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

warboss wrote:
Mike1975 wrote:
I totally agree with you that AFTER that point, he was totally complicit and accountable for his actions. I also think that although ignorant, his management style makes him at fault for what happened before that point.

I'm glad we agree on that at least. I would however disagree with you on the timing as this type of mistake extends retroactively. Given his long history of apparent willful ignorance (going back a decade or more to the Bill Coffin posts that detail the same), he has been IMO accountable from Day 1 post funding. He didn't just catch an acute case of the seehearspeaknoevilitis. If anything, what happened on this KS is sadly just a continuation of what he has always done but more obvious by two orders of magnitude congruent with the increased number of backers and the total funding. In the past when he was willfuly ignorant with his own money, the only people who cared were a few super fans on the forums (who if they preordered weren't charged until the actual release). He is instead accountable for everything both in spirit and in letter because it is exactly his chosen style of (mis)management that led us to this point from the day he decided to start the project despite dozens of badly handled projects across the decades that should have altered his company's practices.

Which tracks as to why I've always said they should have hired someone to manage things even before the KS. True to style Kevin probably thought he could sit back and that ND would do the heavy lifting and never read the contract on where ND's responsibilities started and ended. That also tracks with all that we know of this fiasco.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

warboss wrote:
I hope you guys don't mind if I continue the conversation here. I'm not a fan of the KS comments (although they seemed to have died down somewhat with some of the biggest spammers not posting much anymore) as it's very difficult to follow a conversation there. It's more like following a stock tickertape in the 1920's I'd guess.

Feel free!

**Forar**

Oh, and I forgot, going over what PB were telling us;

October 4th, 2013:

UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™

We continue to working away on this project which is also drawing to completion. We can hardly wait to get Robotech® RPG Tactics™ into full-blown manufacturing. We want this game out as badly as you do. Getting there. Looking good!"

Early Oct, still on target.

October 12th:

UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™

The rule book is laid out. We’re helping Ninja Division give it one last proofread. Alex and Julius went through it on Friday. Wayne’s looking it over now. The final sculpts for the YF-4 have also come in, and we’re looking over the redone 130+ data cards. Packaging has also started to come in. Once everything is finalized, we send it in to Harmony Gold for their stamp of approval (and any changes). After Harmony Gold signs off, we send it all in to manufacturing! Like I said last week, we can hardly wait to get Robotech® RPG Tactics™ into full-blown manufacturing and into your hands. Getting there. Looking awesome.

Still looking 'awesome'.

October 17th:

UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™

The rule book is laid out and has gone through final proofreading and we’re waiting to get the final, corrected version from Ninja Division so we can get Harmony Gold’s approval. Likewise, the 130+ data cards are going through final editing and proofreading by Jeff Burke. Final packaging should be done soon and also sent to Harmony Gold for final approval. Everything is looking fantastic. Once everything is finalized, we send it in to Harmony Gold for their stamp of approval (and any changes). After Harmony Gold signs off, we send it all in to manufacturing! Can hardly wait.

Ship date remains undetermined pending the final manufacturing schedule. Though we’d love to see a December 2013, release, it is looking more and more like Robotech® RPG Tactics™ will not arrive at the Palladium warehouse until sometime in January, 2014.

Ooooh, mid October, we've had a slip! Of a month! No worries guys, it'll be at the warehouse soon(tm)!

October 24th:

UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™

Everything is moving toward completion. Almost there. We’ll provide all the latest news next Weekly Update.

Nnnnope, still pretty confident, but surely the NEXT update will indicate where things start looking fuzzy (in that with hindsight, they're literally a year away from beginning fulfillment in earnest).

November 1st:

A bit of fun: Entrepreneur Magazine Ranks Robotech® RPG Tactics™

Entrepreneur is a magazine published by Entrepreneur Media as well as having an online magazine. On October 24, 2013, Entrepreneur ranked the top 100 Crowdfunded Companies. Palladium Books with its Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Kickstarter was ranked at #19 overall, and #5 among tabletop crowdfunders. Pretty sweet. Thought you’d enjoy hearing about this. If you’d like to read the article, hear’s the link:

http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/229477

Good job living up to that highly prestigious award!

We are busy as all get out!

We are crazy busy trying to get books finished, new books and projects started, juggling business matters, dealing with the loss of our dear friend Kay, Halloween and all kinds of other stuff. As Robotech® RPG Tactics™ gets ever closer to manufacturing, our emphasis has shifted to getting RPG sourcebooks into your hands.

Oh cool, they're getting close to manufacturing!

November 8th:

UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™

● Flexible Date of Release: An exact release date is yet to be determined, but it is looking like some time in February, 2014. Ninja Division’s original projections had product delivery at October or November, but we were all a bit too optimistic. In order to make this game line everything it can be, there have been delays. As a result, the game has yet to be sent into manufacturing. That said, 98% of the work is completed, the game pieces look incredible, and Ninja Division is wrapping up on final packaging, layout and tweaks. We expect to get final approval from licensor Harmony Gold in two or three weeks. At which point, Robotech® RPG Tactics™ goes into manufacturing. Factoring in manufacturing time, shipping from China and other factors, it is looking more and like a February 2014 release. We’ll see. Note: As stated in the past, we will ship product to the Kickstarter supporters before we ship to distributors.

Huh, let's speed this up;

November 15th: still February 2014.

November 22nd: still February 2014.

November 27th: same.

December 6th: same.

December 13th: same.

Dec 19th: same.

January 9th:

● Release Date: I’m sorry, but we still do not have a hard release date for the game. I know it is frustrating to say we are working on it and it will be released as soon as possible. When we know more, you will know it too. We are as frustrated and disappointed with the slow progress and sliding release date as anyone, but things are moving forward on all fronts. Hang tight. We are getting there. I’m sorry we can’t give you anything more substantive at this time. We are sharing information, photos and progress as we get them ourselves! Things are shaping up to be a Spring release.

Oh, so here we finally hit a snag, a full quarter after Mike has alleged that they realized how bad things were. And didn't say anything. For like 3-4 months (slipping from Dec to Jan to Feb is NOT indicative of "holy gak we're like 10% of the way done!"). And if they DID know, they were clearly more interested in covering their own butts than communicating just how drastic things were.

Jan 17th:

UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™

I hope to have more to report in the next Weekly Update. As of right now, not much has changed from last week. We are deep into the engineering stage and dealing with a number of matters that inhibit us from locking down a likely release date. We don’t want to keep shifting dates. The next time we report something, we want it to be solid, so it will probably be a few weeks. You’ll know when we know. Keep the faith. Robotech® RPG Tactics™ is absolutely coming out in 2014, Kickstarter supporters will get product before retail, and this game is going to be epic fun.

Okay, they'll know in a couple of weeks, and it will be solid!

Jan 23rd:

We are still unable to lock down a likely release date at this time, and may have to wait until after the Chinese New Year (a celebration that lasts a couple of weeks!) before we have something concrete to tell you. You’ll know when we know. Keep the faith. Robotech® RPG Tactics™ is absolutely coming out in 2014, Kickstarter supporters will get product before retail, and this game is going to be epic fun.

Oh, it'll 'be out' in 2014 alright... just not as much as we might be lead to believe up until this time. Remember, they still haven't said anything about 2 waves of shipping.

Which brings us to;

Jan 30th:

UPDATE: Robotech® RPG Tactics™

Palladium will be sending out a separate announcement about Robotech® RPG Tactics™ that we think will make people happy. You can expect to see it later tonight or Friday.

Meanwhile, with the Chinese New Year in full swing, we won’t have much new to report for a couple of weeks. After that, we expect to be able to give you more news about manufacturing and progress. I can say that Jeff Burke continues to work diligently creating a comprehensive Macross Mecha Color Guide and he’s about 80% done. Looking good. Meanwhile, Ninja Division and Palladium are both continuing to finish and fine-tune other aspects of the product line. Again, Robotech® RPG Tactics™ is absolutely coming out in 2014 and Kickstarter supporters will get product before retail. This game is going to be epic fun.

Oh...

Then The Two Wave Announcement.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/734271

Oh.

So yeah, I guess we needed to take a trip down memory lane, but if PB was remotely concerned about this project, they spent an awful lot of months failing to properly address the backers, or even manage expectations. If they did find out in October (or sometime in 2013) that they were vastly further behind than they thought, they waited until the start of 2014 to actually say anything beyond 'oh, it might slide a little, don't worry'.

Apologies for the length, but I think it's pertinent to recall what they actually said and did, and the context surrounding those statements.

**warboss**

Thanks for the timeline research, Forar. The only thing I'd add is the facebook notification from Ninja Division that told us everything was NOT ok with the files (which may have been their last discussion of the matter of this project) and Palladium's confirmation around a year later which proved that they knew their previous "everything is fine! just a bit delayed!" proclamations were complete bs as they already knew the scope of their 98% done failure.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, when I win the billion dollar powerball lottery tonight with my single $2.00 purchase of a ticket, I will devote up to 0.01% of my winnings on finding out the truth behind this fiasco.

**Mike1975**

I think sometime in January 2013 there was already knowledge of problems with the ND models not being done since the VT wings were way too small and PB told ND to adjust it and lo and behold since nobody followed up there was a moment a few months later when PB was like "I thought we told you to fix this?"

You ALWAYS follow through when you ask someone to do something important.

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So who can come up with a plan to combine enough stings to hurt the fat bear?[i][b]

**jaymz**

Mike1975 wrote:
I think sometime in January 2013 there was already knowledge of problems with the ND models not being done since the VT wings were way too small and PB told ND to adjust it and lo and behold since nobody followed up there was a moment a few months later when PB was like "I thought we told you to fix this?"

You ALWAYS follow through when you ask someone to do something important.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
So who can come up with a plan to combine enough stings to hurt the fat bear?[i][b]

I think you mean 2014 not 2013....

As for the rest if they (Kevin) did not know several months after the end of the campaign the end result is STILL his fault, whether he is complicit or blissfully unaware. Exactly which, is semantics.

**warboss**

Mike1975 wrote:

So who can come up with a plan to combine enough stings to hurt the fat bear?

First we need to determine which other Palladium staff members are Tigger, Piglet, and Eeyore.

**Mike1975**

jaymz wrote:
Mike1975 wrote:
I think sometime in January 2013 there was already knowledge of problems with the ND models not being done since the VT wings were way too small and PB told ND to adjust it and lo and behold since nobody followed up there was a moment a few months later when PB was like "I thought we told you to fix this?"

You ALWAYS follow through when you ask someone to do something important.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
So who can come up with a plan to combine enough stings to hurt the fat bear?[i][b]

I think you mean 2014 not 2013....

As for the rest if they (Kevin) did not know several months after the end of the campaign the end result is STILL his fault, whether he is complicit or blissfully unaware. Exactly which, is semantics.

Yeah, too many years have gone by with this

**Forar**

Mike1975 wrote:
So who can come up with a plan to combine enough stings to hurt the fat bear?[i][b]

What do you mean, precisely?

Get an actual informative response? We know that Kevin does not give a feth what we think or want. Historically speaking, it takes hundreds of people posting thousands of comments to really needle them into action. (IE: Spartangate, Scale Discussion, etc)

Well, that, or one (allegedly) hyper aggressive phone call. I'm more the diplomatic type. (believe it or not)

Do you mean literally 'hurt' them (financially, presumably)? They've been coasting along for years (decades?) with meager releases and a small but fanatical fanbase. Other than keeping the negative press going, there's only so much people can do short of instigating actual legal proceedings, or threatening such in a believable manner. Being international, while adding my own (thoroughly cited) paper to the BBB, AG, and FTC pile is growing in appeal, that's a bit more effort than this Canadian is willing to go to for the time being. Obviously they're not impervious to consequences, but short of faxing them a picture of my upraised middle finger and spreading the glorious news of their fethmuppetry, there's only so many options present.

Or something else?

We've clearly had issues communicating at times, so let's be very clear on what you're asking right here. :-D

**Mike1975**

Only a team of people, organized, will have any effect. Anything less is simply spinning our wheels

**warboss**

Mike1975 wrote:
Only a team of people, organized, will have any effect. Anything less is simply spinning our wheels

I'm not sure if you're talking about Palladium or us in that post. Of course, they have the benefit of $1.4 million allowing them to spin their wheels in comfort for a few more years.

**Forar**

Mike1975 wrote:
Only a team of people, organized, will have any effect. Anything less is simply spinning our wheels

That is the "How", I seek the "What".

WHAT do you wish to gather the forces of ~~Gondor~~ The Interwebz to do?

**Mike1975**

LOL, we need a Community Organizer vs PB

**warboss**

Mike1975 wrote:
LOL, we need a Community Organizer vs PB

You up for it? I guarantee we pay as well as Palladium did for your playtesting and community organizing.

We don't have mental health benefits like weekly newsletter counselling though but we have Alpharius on duty for anger management.