Robotech® RPG Tactics™-License lost, the end is near!

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Joyboozer**

MangoMadness wrote:
Whats the definition of optimism?

Updating your delivery address for wave 2

It's important you do that, otherwise if wave 2 goes missing it's your fault. Wait a minute, wave 2 is missing! It is your fault, why didn't you update your address?

**Talizvar**

MangoMadness wrote:
Whats the definition of optimism?
Updating your delivery address for wave 2

I actually "have" to do that.
Another person I am on the same wavelength on... I keep feeling like "what is the point, really?"
I am just waiting until I am in a good mood so when I make that phone call I do not say anything inappropriate.
I figure I don't want to give the excuse like above: "What? You did not get the wave 2 shipment? Ah, too bad for you... we did our part! (really we did!)"

**Conrad Turner**

Trouble is, I don't know what cemetery I'll be buried in!

**Talizvar**

I would suggest when writing off your wave 2 just call them up and change to an Australian address... just in case they manage it.

**Swabby**

Can we write off the missing wave 2 figures as a tax loss? Palladium could do us a solid and like, inflate that values so we can claim the loss.

**JohnHwangDD**

Talizvar wrote:
I would suggest when writing off your wave 2 just call them up and change to an Australian address... just in case they manage it.

Kind of like a ship lost at sea?

Do we have the MSRPs of all the items to be delivered? I could do with a lower tax bill.

**Forar**

No. We have what they charged in the Pledge Manager as a start (and could compare wave one to retail/MSRP and get an estimate on the remainder), and they had the initial MSRP's on the campaign for a couple of days at one point (though they got pulled pretty quickly as I recall), but not for the missing products.

We had the original MSRPs of wave one back in July of 2013 with the Short Solicit Pre-orders that showed up on Alliance Distribution's lists, and then those got bumped up in 2014 (if I'm not mistaken) when they realized some of the costs were going up.

Edit: In other Kickstarter news, Dwarven Forge's 3rd campaign has now been delivered, on time. That's 3 that have started and finished in the time that PB has struggled to deliver 1/3 of theirs. 18 pounds of awesome terrain goodness! (and that's a small order compared to many).

**Ctaylor**

New update:

Hi guys.

As I have stated in recent Weekly Updates on our website, Palladium Books has renewed its Robotech® game license and we intend to move Robotech® RPG Tactics™ forward in 2016 in a big way. I want to get the Wave Two Kickstarter exclusives and expansion packs into manufacturing, and ultimately into your hands, as soon as we can.

Despite the fear and apprehension of some, I want to assure you that our Kickstarter backers have never been out of our thoughts, and Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Wave Two is coming. As I have stated, for strategic and business reasons we have been unable to share with you everything Palladium has been exploring, considering and working on. As you know, one of the things we have been doing is looking into and considering possible ways to reduce part counts and make the game pieces easier to put together. As we get into actual production and manufacturing for Wave Two this year, we will share plenty with you. And we think you’ll be pleased. Considering all the delays and frustration of the past, we do not want to even speculate on release dates and other details until we have hard, solid information we are confident with ourselves.

In the Spring we expect to be able to share with you much more details, information, progress reports and offer up new material on a regular basis. We’ll have some new data and material sooner, but I don’t think things will really begin to heat up before Spring or Summer. We want Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Wave Two and fulfillment of our Kickstarter obligations more than anyone. It’s coming.

Oh, and when we talk about the relaunch of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ we mean a renewed market push of the core game, regular product releases and game support, like RRT rules clarifications and elaboration, rules additions, advanced rules, demos, convention support, gaming events and promotions, adventures, PDF and physical releases, and more.

We are also floating ideas for a number of new Robotech® RPG sourcebooks for various Robotech® generations, which will ultimately result in new mecha, vehicles, aliens, and factions for Robotech® RPG Tactics™ expansions. We have some ideas of our own, but we welcome input and suggestions from you, so start kicking around ideas and don’t hesitate to share them with us.

Please know that we are truly committed to fulfilling our Kickstarter obligations and to make Robotech® RPG Tactics™ truly epic, with future expansions across all eras of Robotech®.

*sigh*

Another update about nothing.

**Alpharius**

They slipped 3 to 6 months in the space of...two sentences!!!

In the Spring we expect to be able to share with you much more details, information, progress reports and offer up new material on a regular basis. We’ll have some new data and material sooner, but I don’t think things will really begin to heat up before Spring or Summer.

**Forar**

Yeah. And as noted in the comments, "summer" ends in late September.

Oh look, seems my "Hrm, Gencon and Black Friday seem to be the only dates that mean anything to them", and we seem to be passing by Gencon entirely here.

Even if I believed they sincerely wanted to deliver this year, I don't for a second believe it's because they want to do right by the backers.

They want that sweet holiday sales money (and yes, I'm sure they've annoyed some people, but I don't doubt for a second that there'd be companies willing to sigh, roll their eyes, and snag a box of MAC-II's), and they presumably want people to stop leaving angry messages on their FB page.

I know receiving my box of stuff owed (my portion of which would mostly end up for sale) would probably bring my interest in them entirely to a close, and I suspect that's the case for a lot of people who have expressed their frustration to date. Aside from a few grandiose claims of seeking nigh-divine retribution and to have them driven from the land, it's not unreasonable for people to want their gak, even if it's not as good as originally promised.

And they just don't seem to get that, no, people aren't willing to quietly sit and wait while they spend another entire year twiddling their thumbs. Even people who have ardently asked for calm and patience are starting to get fed up.

Anyone that was hoping for something substantial by the end of Q1 or Q2 might as well start whatever actions they were pondering, because that did seem like a thinly veiled effort to ease us into the idea of the end of the year (Q2 to Q4, yikes), and that's just "things heating up", says nothing about actual delivery. Even if that's what he means, from the Wave 1 standards, ROW might as well brace for not getting their stuff until mid 2017 even if these donkey caves manage to figure out how to get the rest of the products completed.

**evilsmurf**

Looks like the robotech section of the PB forums has been cleaned out again.

**darkminstrel**

Right now is the time to get people to file. Every day for the coming handful I'll be reposting over on the kickstarter page the URLs to file reports. We've got to grab more people into the fold if we really want the reports to work.

**Alpharius**

So did we ever find out for sure if the Legal Tsunami©®™ was officially cancelled for $120?

**Briancj**

Time to file the complaints. Has anyone created a polite form letter, laying out the pertinent details, to make it easier for all of us to file?

**Forar**

evilsmurf wrote:
Looks like the robotech section of the PB forums has been cleaned out again.

Doesn't look like it to me. It just doesn't see much activity. At a glance at least, I still see roughly the same posts that have been sitting unattended for days and weeks now. Any particular ones that seem to be missing?

Alpharius wrote:
So did we ever find out for sure if the Legal Tsunami©®™ was officially cancelled for $120?

No, but Rick became abruptly silent, followed by only rare comments that very pointedly stick to his personal efforts with RRT and his own Wave Two stuff.

Either he was finally bought off, or decided of his own accord to change tack suddenly and completely. Rarely seems to post on the KS comments, infrequently here, his vitriol and rhetoric went from 11 to 2 in a couple of days flat.

**Merijeek**

Briancj wrote:
Time to file the complaints. Has anyone created a polite form letter, laying out the pertinent details, to make it easier for all of us to file?

Everyone is waiting for Forar to do it.

(He joked, but not really)

**JohnHwangDD**

PB says that they did not refund him, and he says the same.

That does not mean that he didn't receive payment or other compensation.

If I were a betting man, my money would be on a confidential settlement with a $120 covenant not to sue, and no admission of wrongdoing, clawback clause and non-disparagement. Standard stuff.

**ThaneCawdor**

While the simplest explanation, it would require Kevin to sell a dice bag and hire an attorney to draft it.

And also if accurate its very telling that they defined any payout as NOT being a refund, unless Rick & PB are outright lying

**Lynx7725**

Forar wrote:Edit: In other Kickstarter news, Dwarven Forge's 3rd campaign has now been delivered, on time. That's 3 that have started and finished in the time that PB has struggled to deliver 1/3 of theirs. 18 pounds of awesome terrain goodness! (and that's a small order compared to many).

Yeah, and DF stuff are easier to put together than RTT stuff too, and versatile... heavy as heck though (and still lighter than their resin). I'm hoping to pick up my stuff this week from the forwarder.

Ctaylor wrote:New update:

Would you believe I got to the third sentence and my eyes started to roll? It's yet another non-update update. Give us details -- "The super valk we are working to reduce from 25 parts to 15 parts, here's a pic of the layout." Or "The MAC II is proving a bit difficult primarily due to the size, we're thinking of how to get it to fit into a standard mold plate."

A thought struck me. Maybe they don't know how to do a screen-grab?

PB wrote:As I have stated, for strategic and business reasons we have been unable to share with you everything Palladium has been exploring, considering and working on.

Bunk. Other KS had shared enough details to satisfy the appearance of progress, and not threaten their own strategy and business. PB just plain sucks at figuring out which is which.

PB wrote:Considering all the delays and frustration of the past, we do not want to even speculate on release dates and other details until we have hard, solid information we are confident with ourselves.

Which won't happen until the boxes magically appear somewhere. PB's approach to information management went from "speculative positivity" to "nothing except concrete details, and assume nothing is concrete until concrete." That's just terrible, from a customer expectation management perspective.

At work, my boss don't take what I claim to have done at face value -- at some point I have to show evidence that some work was done. Why can't these numbskulls get that idea into their heads?

Forar wrote:Oh look, seems my "Hrm, Gencon and Black Friday seem to be the only dates that mean anything to them", and we seem to be passing by Gencon entirely here.

Yeah well.. setting the bar for how to screw things up and then lowering it further. It's now more a morbid amusement run to see how far down they can go.

Forar wrote:I know receiving my box of stuff owed (my portion of which would mostly end up for sale) would probably bring my interest in them entirely to a close, and I suspect that's the case for a lot of people who have expressed their frustration to date.

It's highly unlikely I'd do more than token browsing of any future RRT stuff, simply because I don't believe PB has the expertise to manage the line properly. To do that, PB has to modernize and rethink a lot of their approaches at the fundamental level. Given my impressions, pretty much the entire management has to be scrapped and redone, and we all can guess the chances of that happening.

Forar wrote:And they just don't seem to get that, no, people aren't willing to quietly sit and wait while they spend another entire year twiddling their thumbs. Even people who have ardently asked for calm and patience are starting to get fed up.

Sadly, the default is that many would quietly sit. I can't really do much since I'm overseas, but even I'm getting a bit fed up.

**Conrad Turner**

ThaneCawdor wrote:
While the simplest explanation, it would require Kevin to sell a dice bag and hire an attorney to draft it.

And also if accurate its very telling that they defined any payout as NOT being a refund, unless Rick & PB are outright lying

No need to lie about it, there does not need to have been a "Refund", all they would have done was 'buy-back' his remaining pledge. Maybe he would have settled for face value [what he paid] or maybe they would have had to add a little to the pot for the 'inconvenience and expense of having to buy later at retail prices, but a 'buy-back' is not the same as a 'refund', no sir!

**evilsmurf**

Forar wrote:
evilsmurf wrote:
Looks like the robotech section of the PB forums has been cleaned out again.

Doesn't look like it to me. It just doesn't see much activity. At a glance at least, I still see roughly the same posts that have been sitting unattended for days and weeks now. Any particular ones that seem to be missing?

There were several new threads with comments running up till the 29th. Now the last comment is on the 26th.

**Krinsath**

Merijeek wrote:
Briancj wrote:
Time to file the complaints. Has anyone created a polite form letter, laying out the pertinent details, to make it easier for all of us to file?

Everyone is waiting for Forar to do it.

(He joked, but not really)

When looking for someone to draft polite letters, you can do far worse than to tap a Canadian for the job. However, Forar's flag changes at work so he's part-American according to Dakka. This means he could slip into irate slang at any moment, and government flunkies might be confused by "gak", "gakbags", "fethmuppets" and wonder why anyone would keep a donkey in a cave. It's very difficult to discuss PB's efforts without the use of those terms as well, even with the linguistic skills Forar has shown.

It's do-able for him to be a freelance writer I suppose, but I'm not sure it's do-able if he's being paid like he was working for PB (i.e. - not at all)...

**Genoside07**

As we get into actual production and manufacturing for Wave Two this year,.

Wave 2 was to being worked on as wave one finished, now they are just thinking about scheduling it?

**Conrad Turner**

How can they schedule a production run until they have finished and signed off on the tooling?

Last we heard, they were still 'discussing' ways of improving the parts breakdown to make them easier to build. Maybe someone should point them in the direction of GW.
Torso, Legs, Arms, Head, Weapon, Accessories.
Part breakdown finished!

**warboss**

I'm debating until when to give Palladium before filing. Valentine's Day/1000th day post funding seems poetic as does Leap Year's day (February 29th) which would be just after one FULL year since the last useful update and symbolic that we only get one wave every four years. I was going to wait until gencon but Palladium has officially unofficially made that date incredibly unlikely for full reward fulfillment. Anyone else want to file with the FTC and other agencies (Michigan AG, BBB) on one of those dates?

I asked earlier in the thread and got no response but is there anyone reading this that is relatively local to Palladium (i.e. the Detroit area or whatever suburb Palladium is in)?

**Asterios**

My Derek Wildstar (cosmo zero) fighter rendition:

and his plane with a Black Tiger Squadron plane:

**Talizvar**

So then, for all this extra stuff to fluff up the wave 1 product I am sure they can count on Mike to whip up something right?
You can't expect them to do it themselves!
Maybe sanction some shapeways models, for a cut.
Maybe a nice cozy starter box slip-cover!
Or an alternative to the "swoosh" tm. stand.
Card sleeves!

**Lynx7725**

Conrad Turner wrote:Maybe someone should point them in the direction of GW.
Torso, Legs, Arms, Head, Weapon, Accessories.
Part breakdown finished!

Part of the problem is that the initial manufacturer that RRT went with is, IMO, using quite dated production technologies; it appears from the sprues that they are holding details only on one orientation, and as such needed to have two halves of limbs etc. that have details on opposing sides. Thus the Destroid legs of many parts, etc. Parts breakdown is also contingent on the technology used, so if they went with a low-tech provider, they are constrained by that.

GW for whatever evils they had done, had constantly moved their injection molding technologies forward. In the wargaming miniature industry, there's only a handful of companies capable of doing what GW does in plastic. PB is not one of those and given their business practices, attitude and model, unlikely to hook up with one that is.

That's why PB's talk of reducing parts count may -- or may not -- hide other things behind the scene. It's possible that they are swapping to a manufacturer with better capabilities (although, that is quite madness in itself), and hence able to reduce the part count now. Alternatively, they are trying to work things out themselves in 3D modelling so that the part count is lower, though their general technological affinity makes me shudder in fear of the end results of that..

warboss wrote:I'm debating until when to give Palladium before filing. Valentine's Day/1000th day post funding seems poetic as does Leap Year's day (February 29th) which would be just after one FULL year since the last useful update and symbolic that we only get one wave every four years.

Nah, don't go with the 1000th day thing. What if PB actually does give a proper update before that? Odds are low... it's one week to Lunar New Year, most Chinese companies would be winding down operations for the festivities. Ain't likely anything would come up before end of Feb.

**Cypher-xv**

warboss wrote:
I'm debating until when to give Palladium before filing. Valentine's Day/1000th day post funding seems poetic as does Leap Year's day (February 29th) which would be just after one FULL year since the last useful update and symbolic that we only get one wave every four years. I was going to wait until gencon but Palladium has officially unofficially made that date incredibly unlikely for full reward fulfillment. Anyone else want to file with the FTC and other agencies (Michigan AG, BBB) on one of those dates?

I asked earlier in the thread and got no response but is there anyone reading this that is relatively local to Palladium (i.e. the Detroit area or whatever suburb Palladium is in)?

The time to file is now not later.

**JohnHwangDD**

warboss wrote:
I'm debating until when to give Palladium before filing.

You should have filed yesterday. And then, release PDFs of your complaints so that others can do the same.