Robotech® RPG Tactics™-License lost, the end is near!

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**Asterios**

Forar wrote:
It doesn't set gak. They were asked their opinion on one thing, and they gave it. It was a poll, not a suicide pact. Anyone who voted yes may have been overly generous to PB on the matter, but it in no way would count as some sort of legally binding anything, let alone giving up a 'right'.

IF pb wanted to progress in some fashion that required feedback from the community, they would need to obtain it anew. New issue, time has passed, new poll or survey or whatever. Obviously they don't, or if they might they haven't found their hand forced in that direction yet, but as fellow gamers let's try to show a little imagination here.

Can people not have an academic discussion about "What If" scenarios?

And if backers weren't ready to file, they weren't ready to file. Blaming other backers as somehow negligent for not acting how you wanted them to, when you wanted them to, is quite self centered.

Whether the legal tsunami became a legal wading pool, or whatever it was that happened that you'll reference obliquely but not confront directly, that was their choice to make then, and as seen in this thread and the KS comments, more do make every so often.

my point is if people are expecting things to be done, they will be waiting awhile, backers have to do something to get something done and do it in force, as to the other point you would be surpirsed what is considered legal precedence.

**darkminstrel**

Asterios wrote:

What it all comes down to is the backers of this project are a lazy bunch and very apathetic who will let others do the work while they do nothing.

What specific avenues do backers have to seek recompense?

**Asterios**

darkminstrel wrote:
Asterios wrote:

What it all comes down to is the backers of this project are a lazy bunch and very apathetic who will let others do the work while they do nothing.

What specific avenues do backers have to seek recompense?

as a single backer, nothing short of a lawsuit, as a mass of backers, filing with the FTC and Michigan AG's office, these are the avenues open to backers.

**n815e**

The Robotech FB group (which I think it run by HG) posted a review of RRT.

It's sort of funny, considering that HG has done next-to-nothing to promote the game, which you would think would be in their best interest.

But perhaps use it as an opportunity to let HG know how happy you are with the handling of this project. Tell them that you think PB is doing a great job and that you are very glad they have delivered so timely and given wonderful communication.

**Morgan Vening**

n815e wrote:
The Robotech FB group (which I think it run by HG) posted a review of RRT.

It's sort of funny, considering that HG has done next-to-nothing to promote the game, which you would think would be in their best interest.

But perhaps use it as an opportunity to let HG know how happy you are with the handling of this project. Tell them that you think PB is doing a great job and that you are very glad they have delivered so timely and given wonderful communication.

Here's the link, as there's quite a few results that pop up for "Robotech".

And yeah, it's a pretty hostile commentary. They don't seem to have PBFB's banhammer, at least for the moment. Majority of posts are what you'd expect, mostly from the usual suspects, but a few new (or at least infrequent) posters are in there.

The review is generally positive, though. But as one of the commenters said, it's strange for Harmony Gold* to promote it, this long after release, given the current hostile environment the project is in. But given what I know about HG and their similarity to PB in just not understanding how to deal with the public (among other flaws), I'm not really surprised.

* It's claiming to be the "Official Robotech Page", but that doesn't seem definitive like it is on some social media sites (ie, Twitter Verified). I think it is, but it wouldn't shock me if it was fan run.

**Talizvar**

I dunno, I keep being told I should be "happy" with what little we got and that all that money I put in should be worth the price of some of the product being more than a gleam in someone's eye.

Plus, if HG was all that interested, they only have to wander over to this fine discussion here or the even more hair-raising discussions on the kickstarter.

I have copies of my list from the backerkit and the resulting email. Everyone should file those away since you lose those I could see PB saying "what orders?" the two or three years from now...

**warboss**

Talizvar wrote:
I dunno, I keep being told I should be "happy" with what little we got and that all that money I put in should be worth the price of some of the product being more than a gleam in someone's eye.

Plus, if HG was all that interested, they only have to wander over to this fine discussion here or the even more hair-raising discussions on the kickstarter.

I have copies of my list from the backerkit and the resulting email. Everyone should file those away since you lose those I could see PB saying "what orders?" the two or three years from now...

That's a good idea and thanks. I've screen capped my backerkit order page proving what I ordered in case Palladium is lucky enough that Backerkit goes out of business and takes the info down with them at some point. I'm sure they'd see that as a great boon being "unable" to prove who ordered what so they can't ship anything until they're sure. That sort of "we don't want to short anyone an item so we can't ship anyone anything for years" thinking would follow their current "we can't show everything so we'll show nothing" (lack of) updates.

**warboss**

http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/dust-studios-to-be-at-gama-trade-show-with-ninja-division/

It appears Ninja Division has partnered up with yet another troubled kickstarter IP. First there was Robotech for a year, then AVP for a few months, and now the Dust franchise. I'm really not sure what they're thinking with all those moves. Are they the gaming equivalent of the naive girl who always falls for the bad boy that she knows will treat her like crap no matter how many times it ends badly? I suppose they see Defiance games as the partner/fish that got away...

**JohnHwangDD**

Ninja Division is a publishing company, like FFG and CMoN. ND publishes Super Dungeon Explore and a variety of other games, so this isn't that much of a surprise.

Paolo needs a publisher and distribution for Dust, like what FFG previously provided and what BF claimed they would provide. Given that he's not moving to PVC for CMoN, ND seems like the "best" fit at the moment. While Warlord Games would have been a "better" fit for their HIPS production capabilities, obviously, it wouldn't work from an IP standpoint due to WG publishing BA as a direct competitor in the 28mm WW2 space.

Given ND's experience with CMoN and Prodos for RK & AvP, respectively, I can assume that ND's relationship with Dust will be at arm's length and strictly contractual.

**warboss**

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Given ND's experience with CMoN and Prodos for RK & AvP, respectively, I can assume that ND's relationship with Dust will be at arm's length and strictly contractual.

From what I heard about the Relic Knights issues, they were squarely on ND's feet. As for AVP, they didn't learn their lesson about partnering with questionable companies known for CURRENT ongoing failures... and they ended up backing out after only a few months after the failure predictably to all but them continued. And now they stepped into yet another ongoing mess with Dust. It doesn't matter it's arm length or contractual... so were the deals apparently with AVP and Robotech and they bailed on both (and rightfully so). It's silly they decided to wade into another knee deep pig pen of issues voluntarily.

**JohnHwangDD**

Relic Knights was published by CMoN, who squelched both SDE and RK in favor of the AQ and WoK lines that they developed in-house specifically to compete with SPM, having already collected the RK KS funds.

**warboss**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Relic Knights was published by CMoN, who squelched both SDE and RK in favor of the AQ and WoK lines that they developed in-house specifically to compete with SPM, having already collected the RK KS funds.

After ND allegedly screwed up the production which led to a year and a half delay IIRC. From what I heard (from an admittedly CMON centric source) is that there was alot of acrimony behind the scenes because of the screw ups. If they did indeed cost CMON both in reputation and money (and I can't recall a CMON involved screw up since McVey and ND), why shouldn't CMON come out with another product to fill that same niche if ND split off taking the original IP with them?

**JohnHwangDD**

We'll never know which came first on RK, but I'm sure that nobody was happy.

**Lynx7725**

Just as we aren't happy. This week's update is out.

Highlight:

"We are working our collective keisters off on several fronts and making some good progress. The upcoming books are going to be awesome. When I wasn’t writing or coordinating work for a number of upcoming products, Wayne and I were working on convention prep, advertising, approvals, communications with artists and licensors, and exploring a variety of business areas. In short, very busy but feeling like we are getting a heck of a lot done. Read on.:

Any guesses on RRT content?

**Talizvar**

Yep, just hoping if they do not talk about it, it will go away.

**Stormonu**

I love folks who can spin their wheels doing nothing of value and believe they are "working their keisters off" - not. I've been stuck with too many of those sob's at my own job. PB has proved time and again they can't change and see nothing wrong with their failure to produce - well, anything.

**Talizvar**

It is all a matter of perspective, I am sure they have to "work" harder than they ever had before. Since the world is smaller and they have more competition. Plus their efforts look that much less compared to other similar product. Plus they are unable to control their own press so it is hard to say "we are awesome" without it seeming like a joke.
I am sure modern day technology can really be hard on those who have their heads stuck in the 80's.

Yup, less said about wave 2, the snark ratchets up proportionately, in my case anyway.

**JohnHwangDD**

Heads stuck in the 80s? More like heads stuck up their butts...

The world has moved on, but these game companies rarely change once they get a taste of success. GW radically overhauling with 40k3, WFB6 and AoS is almost unheard of.

**darkminstrel**

I got an actual reply letter from the MI AG! My filing was done just before the end of 2015 and Kevin didn't take it upon himself to respond untill the 2nd of this month.

**Alpharius**

Was his response the same Cut-n-Paste we've seen in all of his other responses to the BBB and such?

**Genoside07**

Just saw Miniature Market latest sale, Looks like if a shop marks down Robotech down to half off, it sales OK..

http://www.miniaturemarket.com/ssearch?q=robotech

I got rid of my unopened copy by using it as payment for having an old buddy help me move...

Not filing against Palladium because I feel they will be bankrupt long before it would ever see their day in court.

But I did ask my FLGS owner who is traveling to GAMA this week, if there was a Palladium panel to ask about the

Robotech Kickstarter in hopes of a Mob response..

**Talizvar**

The sale is nice to see, the heavy weapon pods I might get (6 left!).
What is up with the Spartan/Phalanx Destroids kit?
$24.79 but they have 20+ kits... you would think they would want to price to sell.
I picked up a couple starter sets from $60 to $70 so the pricing makes me feel pretty good so-far.

I really hope there is some kind of response to the question rather than crickets...

**Sining**

warboss wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:

Given ND's experience with CMoN and Prodos for RK & AvP, respectively, I can assume that ND's relationship with Dust will be at arm's length and strictly contractual.

From what I heard about the Relic Knights issues, they were squarely on ND's feet. As for AVP, they didn't learn their lesson about partnering with questionable companies known for CURRENT ongoing failures... and they ended up backing out after only a few months after the failure predictably to all but them continued. And now they stepped into yet another ongoing mess with Dust. It doesn't matter it's arm length or contractual... so were the deals apparently with AVP and Robotech and they bailed on both (and rightfully so). It's silly they decided to wade into another knee deep pig pen of issues voluntarily.

ND is still distributing AVP.

http://sodapopminiatures.com/alien-vs-predator

**darkminstrel**

Alpharius wrote:
Was his response the same Cut-n-Paste we've seen in all of his other responses to the BBB and such?

Pretty much. I'm actually thinking of filing a small claims case vs PB using the retail amount that he's been throwing in our faces. It's three times what I paid for in my entire pledge but he seems to think that those numbers are valid...I'll use them.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Sining wrote:
warboss wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:

Given ND's experience with CMoN and Prodos for RK & AvP, respectively, I can assume that ND's relationship with Dust will be at arm's length and strictly contractual.

From what I heard about the Relic Knights issues, they were squarely on ND's feet. As for AVP, they didn't learn their lesson about partnering with questionable companies known for CURRENT ongoing failures... and they ended up backing out after only a few months after the failure predictably to all but them continued. And now they stepped into yet another ongoing mess with Dust. It doesn't matter it's arm length or contractual... so were the deals apparently with AVP and Robotech and they bailed on both (and rightfully so). It's silly they decided to wade into another knee deep pig pen of issues voluntarily.

ND is still distributing AVP.

http://sodapopminiatures.com/alien-vs-predator

and they are definitely not tying up with Dust, beyond sharing a booth (and got enough concerned emails to issue a statement saying so)

Ninja Division

11 March at 23:30 ·
..

First off, thank you to the fans and followers of Ninja Division and Dust for your enthusiastic response to the announcement that DUST Tactics would be presenting with Ninja Division at the upcoming Game Manufacturers Association meeting in Las Vegas. However, as reported, Ninja Division is not in partnership or a publishing relationship with DUST TACTICS at this time, nor have we had any discussions to this point about such a relationship. Due to a misunderstanding, Ninja Division had hoped to share some space at the show with Paolo and team, as lovers of his rich worlds and miniatures.
Thank you to everyone who reached out to us, we are sorry if we have caused any confusion, and look forward to meeting our retail and distribution partners in Las Vegas!

**Stormonu**

That reply is confusing -is ND just sharing a booth with Dust?

**Morgan Vening**

Stormonu wrote:
That reply is confusing -is ND just sharing a booth with Dust?

When I initially heard the report, I just figured they were doing what they did with Hawk Wargames at Gencon, the year prior to last*. Sharing a booth allows for some consolidated infrastructure, and also allows for a more prime location (a doublesize booth usually has 3-4 sides open to the public, being either an end of an aisle, or a seperated island). And I'd expect a double sized booth to be marginally cheaper.

* Pretty sure they shared a booth last year, but I know it was with Hawk the year before.

It also has the added advantage of being far enough away from PB that there doesn't appear to be interaction. "Sorry, we'd love to have the booth next door, but our partners want it nine aisles over there.".. And after our dealings with PB, you can't really blame ND.

**Talizvar**

Yup, we will get that update aaaannnyyyyyy dayyyyy nowwww.

**Stormonu**

Oh, look - a picture of PB's warehouse in the background!

Yeah, kinda funny - we get no updates and people talk and talk - we get a quasi-update with a sketchy timeframe when they actually got the pics, and everyone stops talking.

Course, I think we've about said all we can say without repeating ourselves anymore. We've even run out of stuff to mock PB for....

**Joyboozer**

I wonder if everyone in the world died except for alpha 11 over on the palladium forums, would he even notice?