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I didn't actually forget the con. I just didn't feel the need to anal retentively mention every last little... wait, never mind.

Yeah. Totes forgot it. You got me there. Have a cookie.

Edit: but then there's the counterpoint that maybe he tested with other minis, or printed out standees like Mike, or who knows what other factors were present.

Asterios wrote:


well he never said 100 opponents just 100's of games, me I've played several other type of games hundreds of times but mostly with the same handful of people.

That was what I meant by opponent(s), mainly I suspect it was a small pool of folks, maybe tournament-style games (thus several in one day), possibly even including solo/theorycraft games.

Hell, in my state, I thinks there's only 25 people total that went into this game. I've only ever heard of one other person in my area who had interest in this - they went in on the kickstarter and had sold their pledge/minis a few months before I talked to them. There was also supposed to be a RRT game/tournament at Coastcon not too far from me back in March/April, but I heard from my sources (who run the Con), nobody showed up to play. Everyone else I normally game with won't even touch this game - and a lot of them used to be pretty heavy into Battletech, or even Heavy Gear.

I know about a half dozen people that backed RRT and not one of them have played a game to date. (The only RRT models I've seen being used at all are being used with battletech). Everyone pretty much built 2-3 models and were like "feth this" and just tucked the rest in a closet along with piles of their other abandoned KS games. It seems in my experience people get really excited about a KS project but that cools off massively by the time it arrives and they are more interested in other newer things.

With KS stuff I'm also in that boat, I backed all of the Zombicide campaigns quite heavily and I've only ever played a few games of the first season. On season 2, 3, & Black Plague I barely opened the box to look at the contents before I said "meh" and put it on the shelf despite spending $300+ on each of those releases. I also backed Sedition Wars and Bloodrage with equal measures of KS excitement, but I haven't played a single game of either.

I'm sure there's a few people out there who have built all their RRT stuff and are trying to game with it but I think that's a small minority of the backers. There doesn't seem to be many centralized groups of players, the assembly time is daunting and after 2-3 years time there's been a lot of new other brands of shiny products for people to chase after.

 Swabby wrote:
I cannot believe anyone has played 100's of games of RRT. Most wargamers don't play 100's of games of anything let alone a game that doesn't even have a semi-complete product line.

I call shenanigans on those games. You have to understand the cap'n is a fan friend who defends everything palladium does on the PB boards. An just like Kevin they aren't afraid to over exaggerate the truth. Like how nmi and Liam do.

I have had a playable minimum of Robotech minis built since January, 2015. In the 15+ months since then, if I were serious about playing, 7+ games monthly would be 100+ total, so 100 games is not an infeasible amount to have played, not by any stretch of the imagination.

Also, the entire boxed set can be built in a few weeks, definitely. It's just a question of priorities.

In my case, playing RRT hasn't been a priority. But I could. Any time. I could.

 paulson games wrote:
I'm sure there's a few people out there who have built all their RRT stuff and are trying to game with it but I think that's a small minority of the backers.

That's Kevin's 1% that he talks about.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I have had a playable minimum of Robotech minis built since January, 2015. In the 15+ months since then, if I were serious about playing, 7+ games monthly would be 100+ total, so 100 games is not an infeasible amount to have played, not by any stretch of the imagination.

But the statement in question was "hundredS", plural. 200+ games makes that 12+ games monthly, or 3+ per week, without fail, maybe more after accounting for build time.

There are things I love that I don't want to do a dozen times per month, every month, for a year and a half straight.

It's feasible in the sense that a truly committed massive super fan *could* do it, but ONE GUY doing it doesn't make a community. It's an extreme of the bellcurve, a single data point, an interesting tidbit (if it's even true).

On further thought I'm guessing that by "games played" he's including demo time, though I'm not sure I'd say I played "a dozen games of RRT" if I were using 2 VT's versus a half dozen Pods to demo for people who may or may not ever bother to touch the game again.

Not to say he is, just that it's the kind of thing that could even remotely make sense with the 200+ figure he alluded to. On second glance, it doesn't stand up without either a revision of the numbers or manipulation of the particulars.

In other news, the PB spam dropped early/ late.

Savage Rifts up:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/545820095/rifts-for-savage-worlds

and...

As we said in the last update, we are gearing up for more Robotech® RPG Tactics™, starting with material that will be made available on DriveThruRPG.com. Meanwhile, we are supporting all kinds of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ events at StrategiCon. More on that in the next update.

Do we have a snooze emoji?

And their new Kickstarter is already over $140k....

What are these people thinking?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/545820095/rifts-for-savage-worlds

I am pointedly trying not to troll them, but I have pointed out that RRT started off as rainbows and sunshine as well.

I swear, if I come back at the end of the year and see people saying "oh Palladium is involved, of course it's late, blah blah blah" I may just go on a trolling spree that involves nothing but making them eat their words from today.

Lots of people who think PEG has a handle on things and that there's no way PB could do anything to change that.

I feel that this is sorely lacking in imagination, but best of luck to 'em.

If nothing else it's kinda win/win, because it'd be plenty hilarious to see a non-PB company make a giant pile of money off a property that PB seems to struggle to keep the lights on with. Sort of a vindication that the setting holds appeal (or at least nostalgia for some) but the adherence to mechanics from a quarter century or more ago is holding them back.

People pondering if this will break 1 or 2 million seem crazy (and to be smoking Kicktraq like the GOOD stuff), but hey, go ahead, rake in a giant pile of cash while the PB crew just stare at the screens. "They paid us HOW MUCH for the licensing rights? They are making WHAT per day?!?"

Mmmmm.

Schadenfreudetastic.

 Forar wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I have had a playable minimum of Robotech minis built since January, 2015. In the 15+ months since then, if I were serious about playing, 7+ games monthly would be 100+ total, so 100 games is not an infeasible amount to have played, not by any stretch of the imagination.

But the statement in question was "hundredS", plural. 200+ games makes that 12+ games monthly, or 3+ per week, without fail, maybe more after accounting for build time.

There are things I love that I don't want to do a dozen times per month, every month, for a year and a half straight..

2 or 3 weekly? Back when I was single and played a ton of 40k in my spare time, I got in that many games. Easily.

3 letters: S. E. X.

Lotsa trust in PEG it looks like, and in most cases I would agree they seem to know what their doing.

But statements like "This is like dealing with any other IP" clearly shows they have no clue what's in store for them.

Also, that they've already run out of KS stretch goals and are scrambling to add more does not inspire confidence (**takes an over-the-shoulder look**). I hope they remember their mantra "we're a small group, working only part-time." and stick to it.

I'll admit I was thinking about buying into this when it came out to retail, but after reading this review: http://mostunreadblogever.blogspot.ca/2016/04/tommys-take-on-savage-rifts-players.html ; I'm not sure the way this stretches the SW rules is what I'm looking for. After all, I mainly wanted it to see how I might be able to tweak the Robotech RPG rules to a SW format. I might be better off doing my own thing.

 Lynx7725 wrote:
In other news, the PB spam dropped early/ late.

Savage Rifts up:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/545820095/rifts-for-savage-worlds

and...

As we said in the last update, we are gearing up for more Robotech® RPG Tactics™, starting with material that will be made available on DriveThruRPG.com. Meanwhile, we are supporting all kinds of Robotech® RPG Tactics™ events at StrategiCon. More on that in the next update.

Do we have a snooze emoji?

Actually, I found the RRT part quite interesting, in an "I don't believe they're continuing with this farce" way. With regards the first, it's only been just over ten months since Conventional Forces were promised to backers.
"The good news is that we are currently putting the finishing touches on the squad sizes, point costs and related rules and special abilities for these vehicles and Micronian infantry. These stats and info will be posted next week for your reference and to assist you with rounding out your squadrons and platoons."
Posted Update 182, June 14th, 2015

Or, if they're referring to the Wave 2 rules and force orgs, then it's only been 8 months.
"We will be posting the following in the weeks ahead:
-Actual cards for Wave Two game pieces.
-Force Organization Charts."
Posted Update 186, August 27th, 2015.

Of course, that comes literally directly under "As stated, we’re shooting to release RRT Wave Two around the end of 2015 or sometime in the first quarter of 2016.", so we know what their time management skills and/or promises are worth.

As for the second part, regarding Strategicon, I'd like to know what "all kinds of RRT at Strategicon" means. A cursory search finds a modelling tutorial, four specifically demonstration games, and one possible competitive event. I say possible, because it's the only event not explicitly stating it's a demo game. Though it's only listed as running two hours, and starts Friday 8pm. Speaking of time, there seems to be some significant timing clashes. The Modelling Tutorial starts at 1pm Friday, and runs for 2 hours. The first demo starts at 2pm Friday, and runs for two hours. The second demo starts at 3pm, and runs for two hours. Then the final two demos, and the potential event, all start Friday at 8pm, with the event and one demo going 2 hours, and the other demo going 4. And that'd all be well and good if PB had a crack crew running things properly. But it appears to be one guy, running all six events. If he doesn't have a decent supporting staff, I don't see how it's not going to be a mess of conflicting issues, especially if there is anything more than token interest in any of the events. There are three other regular RPG events (two Robotech and one Rifts). And that appears to be it for Palladium product lines, after Ctrl-F searching for "robotech", "tactics", "RRT" "rifts" and "palladium".

So, at Strategicon a typically strong showing by RRT Tactics. Regardless, this'll be used by PB as evidence that they've not gone a year without an RRT event.

Anyways,GenCon Event Registration opens up in just over two weeks, so we can see just how focused they are on events there. I'm not expecting much. Then again, I'm not expecting anything.

I'll also note from the PBWU, it seems clear that of the 8 books (Rifters not withstanding) that PB were hoping to put out by mid-year, it's looking more and more like it's gonna be just the one (plus another, maybe, which was split off from the first). That they still seem to believe they can do an additional four books (Disavowed, Atlanteans, Haunted Tech and Garden of the Gods) in the following 4-5 months (depending on when they count Summer as ending), continues to speak to their delusions of adequacy. Hey, it's possible, but they've literally been saying that Heroes has been a week from completion, since like February. They definitely live in their own little time/space bubble.

 Stormonu wrote:

I'll admit I was thinking about buying into this when it came out to retail, but after reading this review: http://mostunreadblogever.blogspot.ca/2016/04/tommys-take-on-savage-rifts-players.html ; I'm not sure the way this stretches the SW rules is what I'm looking for. After all, I mainly wanted it to see how I might be able to tweak the Robotech RPG rules to a SW format. I might be better off doing my own thing.

If you're not familiar with Mekton or Silhouette, you might want to take a look at those. Both work pretty well right out of the tin for that kind of game, although each has its own appeal.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:

I'll admit I was thinking about buying into this when it came out to retail, but after reading this review: http://mostunreadblogever.blogspot.ca/2016/04/tommys-take-on-savage-rifts-players.html ; I'm not sure the way this stretches the SW rules is what I'm looking for. After all, I mainly wanted it to see how I might be able to tweak the Robotech RPG rules to a SW format. I might be better off doing my own thing.

If you're not familiar with Mekton or Silhouette, you might want to take a look at those. Both work pretty well right out of the tin for that kind of game, although each has its own appeal.

At that rate, why not TC RRT using the old HG Tactical rules? Plenty of crunch there!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:

I'll admit I was thinking about buying into this when it came out to retail, but after reading this review: http://mostunreadblogever.blogspot.ca/2016/04/tommys-take-on-savage-rifts-players.html ; I'm not sure the way this stretches the SW rules is what I'm looking for. After all, I mainly wanted it to see how I might be able to tweak the Robotech RPG rules to a SW format. I might be better off doing my own thing.

If you're not familiar with Mekton or Silhouette, you might want to take a look at those. Both work pretty well right out of the tin for that kind of game, although each has its own appeal.

At that rate, why not TC RRT using the old HG Tactical rules? Plenty of crunch there!

TC? I'm not catching the reference.

He's talking about rules for an RPG there, so I'd say that for that purpose both rulesets work very well.

TC == Total Conversion.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
TC == Total Conversion.

Ah, ok ^_^. Well, you don't actually need to do that in either if the systems. You'd just need to stat up some mechas. It works pretty much right out of the box in both cases. I've GMed multiple Macross campaigns using both Mekton (once) and SilCORE (twice), and I only needed to stat up vehicles, basically.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Forar wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I have had a playable minimum of Robotech minis built since January, 2015. In the 15+ months since then, if I were serious about playing, 7+ games monthly would be 100+ total, so 100 games is not an infeasible amount to have played, not by any stretch of the imagination.

But the statement in question was "hundredS", plural. 200+ games makes that 12+ games monthly, or 3+ per week, without fail, maybe more after accounting for build time.

There are things I love that I don't want to do a dozen times per month, every month, for a year and a half straight..

2 or 3 weekly? Back when I was single and played a ton of 40k in my spare time, I got in that many games. Easily.

3 letters: S. E. X.

40k has a slightly larger fanbase. Think you could've managed it with this community/game? Think 18 months of pushing pods and VT's/Destroids around the table would hold the same appeal as... however many millions of figures GW has released?

And yes, that's the joke, thanks for catching it.

 Swabby wrote:
I cannot believe anyone has played 100's of games of RRT. Most wargamers don't play 100's of games of anything let alone a game that doesn't even have a semi-complete product line.

Believe it. I've played this game with a small player group regularly since it was released. I usually play 3-4 games a month...sometimes more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Joyboozer wrote:
He does go from 100s to 100 in the same sentence.

I said hundred or so...which means at least 100 possibly more. That still equals 100s. But nice attempt at nitpicking.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Stormonu wrote:
It does sound suspect. I'd be more than curious who his 100 opponent(s) were. Also, someone whose played numerous games is well aware of the system's shortcomings, and I'd be interested to hear opinions in that area. (Though I have to admit, the chance of me ever playing RRT is at about the chance of there being a Wave 3 delivered).

Why do people instantly suspect my claim as false? How long has this game been out to the general population? If you have a regular play group playing that many games is easy. In the beginning we'd play 150pt games and could get about 6 or 7 of those games in quite regularly as we were learning the game.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

Joyboozer wrote:
He does go from 100s to 100 in the same sentence.

I said hundred or so...which means at least 100 possibly more. That still equals 100s. But nice attempt at nitpicking.

Sorry to nitpick, but no, "100+" and "100s" aren't the exact same thing. One (at least in my experience) means "Over 100" and the other means "Two hundred or more". If someone asked "how long have you been bitching about RRT on the internet" and I said "hundreds of days" and it was actually 120 (we all know it's a lot more but I'm making an example, please keep up), that's not actually "hundreds".

Your exact quote was " (I've played 100's of games already)"

Plural means multiple. Multiple hundreds means... 200+

But yes, playing smaller scale games rapid fire back to back makes a lot more sense. Thank you for clarifying.

And yes, obviously it's still infinitely more games than most of us have played. Thank you for weighing in on the 'kickline concern', good to put that one to bed. That said, I seem to recall that the question that started this whole thing was simply asking what it was, not as to how effective it was. Nobody here (that I recall) stated it WAS, factually, a terrifying tactic. Simply that it had been commented on in the past and the joke had built from there. Much like the "Pod hiding behind a lamp post" debate.

 Forar wrote:
Perhaps some hyperbole for effect.

Given that wave one only started getting into hands roughly a year and a half ago, let's say 500'ish days, a game every 2 or 3 days does seem like a lot, but we lack further context. Were a bunch of them fast demos with a few models per side? I could see someone doing convention or store demo's playing "dozens of games" in a weekend, but at a skirmish scale, not 300+ points per side as is the alleged Standard. Maybe they're just fast players? A 'Standard Malifaux game is supposed to be like an hour or two, but my friends and I could take 3 or 4+ because it was a mixed game and social gathering.

Not that it really matters either way. 50, 100, 200, leagues or Pick Up Games or tournaments or demos, it's still infinitely more table time than I've put into it.

Given the raw hours for assembly I guess it seems a bit extreme unless RRT is like the only game that person played for the last 18 months, but it really could go either way.

No Hyperbole. In the beginning we'd only play with about 150pts of stuff. Those games take maybe 30 minutes tops. Especially if you lose your key models quickly. This has been the only game I've played regularly now since I stopped playing 40k. It's the only wargame I currently play. Assembly time for me is no different than how much time I spent assembling 40k models. Robotech models are fiddly, but that's about it. They are stupidly easy to assemble for an experienced modeler. Try assembling a FW titan....then you'll truly have a sense of how easy Robotech figs are to assemble compared to that. Bottom line is that I can easily say I've played more legitimate games of Robotech than any of the people on here.

I call shenanigans on those games. You have to understand the cap'n is a fan friend who defends everything palladium does on the PB boards. An just like Kevin they aren't afraid to over exaggerate the truth. Like how nmi and Liam do.

Dude you don't even know me. I'm not a fan friend of Kevin or PB. I don't even know the guy. Do you even play this game? If not, then your comment is dumb. Like you even know anything about this game other than complain about it. That's easy any and all off us have complained about it. I don't think you'll see me singing PB's praises about how they are handling this game.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
Try assembling a FW titan....then you'll truly have a sense of how easy Robotech figs are to assemble compared to that.

Given that a Titan is a $250 US model that's like a foot tall (from the pics I've seen), yes, I'd imagine they are quite challenging to build.

Not exactly a glowing comparison to a $5 figure 1.5 inches tall, you know.

Bottom line is that I can easily say I've played more legitimate games of Robotech than any of the people on here.

And you're familiar enough with this thread to know that it's not exactly an awe inspiring feat for most of us, right?

Hell, I can go play a couple of games this weekend and say the same thing about most of the thread (other than you, obviously).

If you have a solid core of super fans around that are into getting a game or two per week for over a year, awesome. Nobody is challenging your appreciation (the particulars seemed off but you have clarified). Truly you have won at Robotech® RPG Tactics™! WITNESS HIM!!!

:-P

Sorry to nitpick, but no, "100+" and "100s" aren't the exact same thing. One (at least in my experience) means "Over 100" and the other means "Two hundred or more".

Your exact quote was " (I've played 100's of games already)"

Plural means multiple. Multiple hundreds means... 200+

But yes, playing smaller scale games rapid fire back to back makes a lot more sense. Thank you for clarifying.

And yes, obviously it's still infinitely more games than most of us have played. Thank you for weighing in on the 'kickline concern', good to put that one to bed. That said, the question that started this whole thing was simply asking what it was, not as to how effective it was. Nobody here (that I recall) stated it WAS, factually, a terrifying tactic. Simply that it had been commented on in the past and the joke had built from there.

JFC. Really? Ok....for the people that need to nitpick I've played more than 100 games easily...150? Maybe...but then again...I'm not really counting them. I didn't realize I had to justify the number of games I've played and that it had to reach some sort of benchmark number for my comments to warrant merit. The bottom line is: I've played way more games of Robotech than any of you...so when I speak about it...I'm in a better position to know what I'm talking about in regards to the game itself than any of you. Maybe Mike can speak about the game more than I since he helped test the rules...but I can definitively say that actual games played versus other people...I have more experience.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Given that a Titan is a $250 US model that's like a foot tall (from the pics I've seen), yes, I'd imagine they are quite challenging to build.

Not exactly a glowing comparison to a $5 figure 1.5 inches tall, you know.

My point is that a robotech model to an experience modeler isn't that big of a deal...and isn't all that difficult to assemble.

And you're familiar enough with this thread to know that it's not exactly an awe inspiring feat for most of us, right?

Hell, I can go play a couple of games this weekend and say the same thing about most of the thread (other than you, obviously).

If you have a solid core of super fans around that are into getting a game or two per week for over a year, awesome. Nobody is challenging your appreciation (the particulars seemed off but you have clarified). Truly you have won at Robotech® RPG Tactics™! WITNESS HIM!!!

I'm well aware of how this thread goes. You have a large segment of people talking about a game they don't even play. They legitimately complain about the handling of the game, sure (all gripes about the handling of this game are legit)...but other than that. They don't play it. So they talk about a game they don't play. Which is odd. :shrug:

 Stormonu wrote:
Also, that they've already run out of KS stretch goals and are scrambling to add more does not inspire confidence (**takes an over-the-shoulder look**). I hope they remember their mantra "we're a small group, working only part-time." and stick to it.

From the creator:

Creator Shane Hensley about 16 hours ago

Two more things that will bear repeating. This Kickstarter is obviously going well and we are super excited. We are *still* a tiny company, however, and everyone but me works part-time. That means it may occasionally take a while to answer questions and the like. But we will get to 'em. Thanks for understanding.
We have more Stretch Goals ready but given the response we have to adjust a bit and make sure we can finish everything we promise with the size of the team we have. Yes, you guys and gals have increased our budget, but that doesn't mean the core team can write / paint any faster. Delivering *great* stuff on time is important to us, and it *kills* us when we slip.

That said, we'll have an update tonight that will address at least the next couple.

Thanks!

Followed by this in the first update;

Stretch Goals

Now...you're really here for new Stretch Goals, aren't you?

We came up with the rest of the goals but not the amounts since we didn't know what kind of response we were going to get. We're also very conscious about only listing stuff we know we can handle and won't interfere with getting all the print books we're working on done in the time we said we would.

So please give us until early afternoon tomorrow and we'll show you what we've got coming. I will tell you this though...

Woof!

Roar!

Ka-THUNK! Ka-THUNK! Ka-THUNK!

So apparently they have more, they just need to price them out. Which is kind of a 'behind the scenes' thing that most campaigns don't admit out loud, but whatever, they're setting a record for their campaigns and it's only the start of the second day, so I'm guessing they usually have time to more fluidly/naturally roll these kinds of things out.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
I'm well aware of how this thread goes. You have a large segment of people talking about a game they don't even play. They legitimately complain about the handling of the game, sure (all gripes about the handling of this game are legit)...but other than that. They don't play it. So they talk about a game they don't play. Which is odd. :shrug:

They manage to deliver the remaining ~thousand dollars worth (Canadian) of models they owe my friends and I, and it'll become a footnote.

Owing thousands of people hundreds of thousands of figures is kind of a pertinent detail here.

Also:

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
[My point is that a robotech model to an experience modeler isn't that big of a deal...and isn't all that difficult to assemble.

Uh, we have some *very* experienced modelers in here who have complained about the assembly issue. I admit to being a modeling novice, but unless you're declaring the entirety of this thread a bunch of minis noobs, you might want to slow your roll there, big guy. Being King Gak of RRT doesn't mean you're the only person here who has assembled an extensive figure library in the thread.

Building one was annoying, building a dozen was obnoxious, building all 300+ figures they were supposed to send me would've been a vastly more arduous ordeal. Though that's now a non-issue as I sold off most of mine and probably have around 50 or fewer left from the ~200 they sent in Wave One.

My friends have around 350 figures worth laying around between them, so if we ever actually decide to play, we won't be lacking for material.

Though I suspect it'd be played ironically at this point.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

 Forar wrote:
Perhaps some hyperbole for effect.

Given that wave one only started getting into hands roughly a year and a half ago, let's say 500'ish days, a game every 2 or 3 days does seem like a lot, but we lack further context. Were a bunch of them fast demos with a few models per side? I could see someone doing convention or store demo's playing "dozens of games" in a weekend, but at a skirmish scale, not 300+ points per side as is the alleged Standard. Maybe they're just fast players? A 'Standard Malifaux game is supposed to be like an hour or two, but my friends and I could take 3 or 4+ because it was a mixed game and social gathering.

Not that it really matters either way. 50, 100, 200, leagues or Pick Up Games or tournaments or demos, it's still infinitely more table time than I've put into it.

Given the raw hours for assembly I guess it seems a bit extreme unless RRT is like the only game that person played for the last 18 months, but it really could go either way.

No Hyperbole. In the beginning we'd only play with about 150pts of stuff. Those games take maybe 30 minutes tops. Especially if you lose your key models quickly. This has been the only game I've played regularly now since I stopped playing 40k. It's the only wargame I currently play. Assembly time for me is no different than how much time I spent assembling 40k models. Robotech models are fiddly, but that's about it. They are stupidly easy to assemble for an experienced modeler. Try assembling a FW titan....then you'll truly have a sense of how easy Robotech figs are to assemble compared to that. Bottom line is that I can easily say I've played more legitimate games of Robotech than any of the people on here.

I call shenanigans on those games. You have to understand the cap'n is a fan friend who defends everything palladium does on the PB boards. An just like Kevin they aren't afraid to over exaggerate the truth. Like how nmi and Liam do.

Dude you don't even know me. I'm not a fan friend of Kevin or PB. I don't even know the guy. Do you even play this game? If not, then your comment is dumb. Like you even know anything about this game other than complain about it. That's easy any and all off us have complained about it. I don't think you'll see me singing PB's praises about how they are handling this game.

Capt. Karuther's didn't know which post to respond too since they all are the same but this one will do, for starters I say the models are gak and garbage and I'm willing to bet i have assembled a whole lot more of these models then you have, as to FW Titans, been there done that , I have built a few of those and such and they are much easier then some of these gak that is called RRT mainly the Guardian and Batteloid, as to simplicity of building? I can knock out a 10-man Dark Angels Squad faster then I can knock out a couple of these Veritech units. the RRT stuff is irritating and irksome it is garbage and gak, so don't come lying to me cause i'm not buying it. also unlike you I have shown some of my work, where is your RRT models you have assembled? any pictures? or you just full of hot air like most PB fanbois ?

Also I can honestly say these are the most ungratifying and most difficult models I have ever assembled and that is coming from someone who has made thousands upon thousands of models (that means more then a couple thousands, not over a thousand.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
My point is that a robotech model to an experience modeler isn't that big of a deal...and isn't all that difficult to assemble.

"A" Robotech model? You are absolutely right. But how many do you need to assemble to play? OTOH, I don't think they are that hard to assemble. I think the piece count and the actual pieces are stupid, and that unless you devote a lot of work to hide its defects the result is less than ideal.

They manage to deliver the remaining ~thousand dollars worth (Canadian) of models they owe my friends and I, and it'll become a footnote.

Owing thousands of people hundreds of thousands of figures is kind of a pertinent detail here.

Yeah, we all know that. We figured that out 120 pages ago. I'm talking about the comments regarding game play. Meh.


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Capt. Karuther's didn't know which post to respond too since they all are the same but this one will do, for starters I say the models are gak and garbage and I'm willing to bet i have assembled a whole lot more of these models then you have

Yeah, I was wondering when you'd show up to comment...LOL. I'm not debating on the quality of models. Overall, Robotech models fall somewhere in the middle. I've built tons of models too, so great I guess? But I've assembled far worse models...and for an experienced modeler...they are average difficulty at best. Overly tedious for no reason? Sure. But that doesn't mean the model is hard to assemble.

as to FW Titans, been there done that , I have built a few of those and such and they are much easier then some of these gak that is called RRT mainly the Guardian and Batteloid, as to simplicity of building?

I would say a titan is far more complex to assemble...lots of sanding, test fitting, gap filling, adding support anchors to the torsos, etc. Again, you aren't going to get any arguments on how many fiddly pieces there are to RTT models. But they aren't hard to assemble.

I can knock out a 10-man Dark Angels Squad faster then I can knock out a couple of these Veritech units.

So can any 12 year old that's been playing 40k for any significant amount of time. Marines are stupid easy to assemble. Those kits are geared that way for novice builders. Again, RTT models may be a challenge to a 12 year old novice...and in fact, is one of my personal gripes about the accessibility of the game for younger players. There's nothing I can do about that though. However, any experienced modeler looking at them will have no issues...if they are interested in the game. It's not that hard. Time consuming, yes...but that does not equal difficult.

the RRT stuff is irritating and irksome it is garbage and gak, so don't come lying to me cause i'm not buying it. also unlike you I have shown some of my work, where is your RRT models you have assembled? any pictures? or you just full of hot air like most PB fanbois ?

LOL. Lower your heart rate internet hero. What specifically am I lying about? That my claim that an expert modeler will have no problems assembling PB models? Or are you simply annoyed because I don't agree with your position? In the spectrum of all the models out there...Robotech models fall in the middle for difficulty. You make it sound like they are impossible. Also, I have posted many pictures of my models during actual games. They are widely accessible on the Robotech forums, on the unofficial RTT FB page, and some on PB forums. If you'd actually spend more time looking at that than attempting to engage in a flame war with me anytime I post on this thread...you might notice.

Also I can honestly say these are the most ungratifying and most difficult models I have ever assembled and that is coming from someone who has made thousands upon thousands of models (that means more then a couple thousands, not over a thousand.

Good for you. That's your opinion. In MY opinion these models are fiddly for a novice...but not all that challenging for an experienced modeler...and any experienced modeler interested in playing the game will have no problems getting their models assembled. What PB should have done was make the models in the starter box simpler to begin with. The other box sets could have kept the fiddliness that they have now...but to get a wider range of people interested their focus should have been on accessibility and that starts with simpler models for the novices. But that ship has sailed. No use complaining about it now.


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 Albertorius wrote:

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
My point is that a robotech model to an experience modeler isn't that big of a deal...and isn't all that difficult to assemble.

"A" Robotech model? You are absolutely right. But how many do you need to assemble to play? OTOH, I don't think they are that hard to assemble. I think the piece count and the actual pieces are stupid, and that unless you devote a lot of work to hide its defects the result is less than ideal.

For a basic 150pt game...not all that many. You could always play with one core force card in the beginning as well which means for UEDF that's 4 models if destroids..or 12 if you are playing Veritechs. For Zentraedi that would 7-12 models depending on what core card you chose.


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Uh, we have some *very* experienced modelers in here who have complained about the assembly issue. I admit to being a modeling novice, but unless you're declaring the entirety of this thread a bunch of minis noobs, you might want to slow your roll there, big guy.

The models are overly fiddly, yes. But not difficult. Two different things. That annoys some people greatly. Some slightly. But none-the-less...the actual process of assembling them isn't hard for an experienced modeler. If you have 300 zentraedi battle pods, 300 vertiechs to assemble...yeah that's daunting...that's because it's 300 models. I could say assembling 300 hormagaunts or 300 orks is equally daunting. At that point, it's less about the difficulty of the model...but the mundane repetition. I still have 50 battle pods still needing assembly, but I don't see myself building them soon. Not because they are fiddly or difficult..but I don't envision myself needing that many. I play 300pt games mostly. I don't need that many pods.

I mean, all kvetching aside... why not post up some pics?

Hell, I posted shots of mine and none of them were particularly spectacular results.

I call shenanigans on those games. You have to understand the cap'n is a fan friend who defends everything palladium does on the PB boards. An just like Kevin they aren't afraid to over exaggerate the truth. Like how nmi and Liam do.

[Dude you don't even know me. I'm not a fan friend of Kevin or PB. I don't even know the guy. Do you even play this game? If not, then your comment is dumb. Like you even know anything about this game other than complain about it. That's easy any and all off us have complained about it. I don't think you'll see me singing PB's praises about how they are handling this game.