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The boiling point of water, the speed of sound, and many more things are NOT constants. They can vary with ambient temperature, pressure, and other conditions. We typically use the speed of sound as a constant by ASSUMING certain ambient conditions.

Okay, but what is the speed of sound when travelling through the robotech RPG tactics pot that is currently boiling, and will said sound waves cause the molecules to excite faster?

The Speed of Soon.

Asterios wrote:

 n815e wrote:
Rick is a physicist, now.

"Speed" is not a measurement independent of the environment or what you are measuring it against.
There is no constant speed of sound since the speed of sound is entirely dependent on what it is moving through and who is observing it.
What is commonly discussed as the speed of sound is how fast sound moves through dry air at sea level on Earth relative to a static observer.

ok then look at it this way, here on earth in the open air is the speed of sound constant? also another thing to remember its not how fast the sound is going that is reflective of the speed of sound, but how fast sound is (yeah its a brain twister), hence the sound barrier, as it goes the speed of sound is reflective of location, if you are on say a planet with no atmosphere hence no sound or even in space, is the speed of sound relevant? ignoring space is noisier then many realize.

as far as atmospheres there are many here on earth, when you go scuba diving the further down you go the more atmospheric pressures you pass thru, also when you go mountain climbing, the atmosphere here on earth is not constant. and yet the speed of sound is?

I know it takes a little bit of imagination and discarding assumptions to make the leap, but I've already described why the speed of sound is not constant and that speed, as a concept, is dependent on who/what is observing it. Speed is a relationship between objects, it is not some absolute.

 Swabby wrote:
Okay, but what is the speed of sound when travelling through the robotech RPG tactics pot that is currently boiling, and will said sound waves cause the molecules to excite faster?

 FacelessMage wrote:
The Speed of Soon.

That's the best thing I've read all day!

 FacelessMage wrote:
The Speed of Soon.

A damned near perfect statement.

I'd just revise it to "The Speed of Soon™".

 Swabby wrote:
Okay, but what is the speed of sound when travelling through the robotech RPG tactics pot that is currently boiling, and will said sound waves cause the molecules to excite faster?

A European or African sound?

Neat. I kind of like the lesson in physics. So saying something is traveling at MACH 6 in space isn't actually irrelevant, as the speed is still considered relative, it just isn't the proper way to state movement in a vacuum. So right enough for people to understand, wrong enough that people who know better find it weird/obtuse.

Now, what I the difference between Momentum and velocity?

As to what it sounds like to me, momentum is what carries something forward after something stops propelling it forward, and velocity is the speed something is traveling while under force/some form of propulsion.

 megatrons2nd wrote:
Neat. I kind of like the lesson in physics. So saying something is traveling at MACH 6 in space isn't actually irrelevant, as the speed is still considered relative, it just isn't the proper way to state movement in a vacuum. So right enough for people to understand, wrong enough that people who know better find it weird/obtuse.

Technically, sound requires a physical medium to transmit through. In the vacuum of space, there is none so there literally is no sound. In a way, the speed of sound in space is zero because it doesn't exist... so in essence going at Mach 6 in space (6x the speed of sound) can also be written as 6x the speed of zero.. which is zero. You're literally not going anywhere (and to tie it back to this Kickstarter, Palladium is going at Mach 8,000 in space on Robotech Tactics).

Technically, space isn't a pure vacuum, either... It varies depending on where you are relative to galactic cores and arms... Just sayin'...

 warboss wrote:

 megatrons2nd wrote:
Neat. I kind of like the lesson in physics. So saying something is traveling at MACH 6 in space isn't actually irrelevant, as the speed is still considered relative, it just isn't the proper way to state movement in a vacuum. So right enough for people to understand, wrong enough that people who know better find it weird/obtuse.

Technically, sound requires a physical medium to transmit through. In the vacuum of space, there is none so there literally is no sound. In a way, the speed of sound in space is zero because it doesn't exist... so in essence going at Mach 6 in space (6x the speed of sound) can also be written as 6x the speed of zero.. which is zero. You're literally not going anywhere (and to tie it back to this Kickstarter, Palladium is going at Mach 8,000 in space on Robotech Tactics).

Basically that, yes. Also, max speed in space is largely irrelevant. What you need to look at is acceleration and maximum burn times.

"Speed of light" also varies by medium, as everyone knows 3x10^8 m/s is actually the speed of light in a vacuum.

However, it is a bit pedantic to argue about the definition of 'speed of light' or 'mach' when you know what they actually mean is "speed of light in a vacuum" or "speed of sound" at a fixed pressure and temperature.

Otherwise said terms become completely meaningless, unless you specify every single potential variable.

Now please, don't make me defend a degenerate like Simbieda again. It makes be feel stupid and dirty.

ETA: m/s or my old teachers will come back from the dead and torture me

Merijeek wrote:
"Speed of light" also varies by medium, as everyone knows 3x10^8 is actually the speed of light in a vacuum.

However, it is a bit pedantic to argue about the definition of 'speed of light' or 'mach' when you know what they actually mean is "speed of light in a vacuum" or "speed of sound" at a fixed pressure and temperature.

Otherwise said terms become completely meaningless, unless you specify every single potential variable.

Now please, don't make me defend a degenerate like Simbieda again. It makes be feel stupid and dirty.

Sorry, I just really wanted to know the answer. Didn't mean to make you defend PB/KS.

 megatrons2nd wrote:
Neat. I kind of like the lesson in physics. So saying something is traveling at MACH 6 in space isn't actually irrelevant, as the speed is still considered relative, it just isn't the proper way to state movement in a vacuum. So right enough for people to understand, wrong enough that people who know better find it weird/obtuse.

Now, what I the difference between Momentum and velocity?

As to what it sounds like to me, momentum is what carries something forward after something stops propelling it forward, and velocity is the speed something is traveling while under force/some form of propulsion.

Been a long time. Velocity is speed relative to an object. So if something is immobile relative to the earth. Something , like a billiard ball is hit with a speed of 5 m/s. That is it's speed. Give it a specific direction (vector) with that speed and it is a velocity.

That same billiard ball has a weight. The weight and relative velocity determine it's momentum. That determines what happens when it hits another object like another billiard ball. If it was a bullet, it would likely have less mass but much greater velocity, giving it a much greater momentum allowing it to destroy the static billiard ball when it hits it and possibly continue through to the other side.

Something like that. Real basic off the cuff explanation.

Okay, it had to be done... think of this to the beat of Coldplay: Speed of Sound:

Speed of Soon
Oddly, little had to be changed with the lyrics.

Momentum can be defined as "mass in motion."

Velocity can be defined as "speed of something in a specific direction"

Speed is a scalar factor and is simply "speed of something" (non-directional).

Well, I like my physics but I figure you guys can google as well as anyone else.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_sound

Speed of sound (soon) is most affected by temperature.

The boiling point of a liquid varies depending upon the surrounding environmental pressure.

Zero degrees Ke(l)vin is to bring a material to it's lowest comparative state of entropy (loosely: energy divided by temperature).

THEREFORE

It IS possible things could be boiling at PB because they feel the least pressure out of any publishing business I know.
When the speed of soon is exposed to a zero like Ke(l)vin, it actually can achieve a state of entropy.
Considering how little energy PB puts into their products that is claimed to all be performed by the zero Ke(l)vin, the near perfect state of entropy is great indeed.

Merijeek wrote:

 FacelessMage wrote:
The Speed of Soon.

A damned near perfect statement.

I'd just revise it to "The Speed of Soon™".

I couldn't figure out the trade mark and copyright symbols when I wrote it.

Thanks for fixing it.

 Mike1975 wrote:

 megatrons2nd wrote:
Neat. I kind of like the lesson in physics. So saying something is traveling at MACH 6 in space isn't actually irrelevant, as the speed is still considered relative, it just isn't the proper way to state movement in a vacuum. So right enough for people to understand, wrong enough that people who know better find it weird/obtuse.

Now, what I the difference between Momentum and velocity?

As to what it sounds like to me, momentum is what carries something forward after something stops propelling it forward, and velocity is the speed something is traveling while under force/some form of propulsion.

Been a long time. Velocity is speed relative to an object. So if something is immobile relative to the earth. Something , like a billiard ball is hit with a speed of 5 m/s. That is it's speed. Give it a specific direction (vector) with that speed and it is a velocity.

That same billiard ball has a weight. The weight and relative velocity determine it's momentum. That determines what happens when it hits another object like another billiard ball. If it was a bullet, it would likely have less mass but much greater velocity, giving it a much greater momentum allowing it to destroy the static billiard ball when it hits it and possibly continue through to the other side.

Something like that. Real basic off the cuff explanation.

Thanks. The last science class I had only briefly touched on physics as it was molecular somethingorother about 25 years ago. Then it was in the process of nuclear fusion/fission and didn't really expound on it large scale, just the process at the molecular scale. And then I don't really remember much of that class either, too many gaming statistics took that space.

 Albertorius wrote:

Basically that, yes. Also, max speed in space is largely irrelevant. What you need to look at is acceleration and maximum burn times.

Good point and another thing Palladium does wrong... assigning a "max speed" in space that is usually just double of 1.5x the atmospheric speed. I don't recall if it made into the print version of Jovian Chronicles but the initial test versions they did at gencon used vector movement. Each model had a max acceleration and you tracked movement with a coin that showed where you'd end up the next turn at your current velocity. You used your acceleration to change that future location. It was nice and I enjoyed it but it did take some getting used to. Even with multiple warnings, we had several players that went full burn for several turns ignoring the fact that they'd have to spend an equal amount of turns to slow down.. and the models flew off the board because they couldn't stop or even turn enough in time. It's not something I would recommend with even mid-level model count forces but it was cool for low model counts similar to the old tactical era.

ok then what about this, a plane is going the speed of sound westward, but the earth is rotating eastward, would the plane be going faster then the speed of sound then say if it was going eastward instead?

Relative to the sun, the moon, the north pole, or an equatorial observer? What is the frame of reference?

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Relative to the sun, the moon, the north pole, or an equatorial observer? What is the frame of reference?

that is the point when you figure in everything is moving what is speed?

Speed is always measured within a particular frame, and you failed to specify one..

On the one hand, it is better than most off topic stuff.

But on the other hand, it is getting (!) way off topic so...

...yeah, back on topic please.

The mods have ordered us back on topic.

Palladium Books sucks, don't they?

Yup.

They've already passed their own Schwarzschild radius and we're all doomed to never escape their clutches.

I'll just be happy if they implode. I'd be happier if they explode. I'd be even happier if I get my stuff. To bad they're to stupid to figure out that this is hurting them more than helping. My local shops no longer carry ANY of their product, and one of them won't even special order their stuff if you ask for it. When local game stores start warning people away from a company, you know you really screwed something up.


Well, at least you should.

If I walk into a store and they won't even special order something for me, it's not me that screwed anything up. Except possibly my research into what I want to buy.

If I then go on to find another store that will let me special order that product, then I've screwed something up by nor learning from the first experience.

But I know what you mean, MTs2nd.

You know, for a "publishing company" they sure do not have much out there after decades being in buisness.

Most of what can be found on them are about lawsuits or fans wishing they would update their RPG rules or fans saying they cannot write anything as a "supplement" to the game because they require ALL material to be released through them.

Zombie company for sure.
Past it's life span, but in defiance of science or economics it shambles-on.

This kickstarter was a strange departure for them and they seemed to instantly regret it.

Then the Savage Worlds KS which was even stranger: why use those outdated clunky rules of PB's when you now can use SW?
This flies in the face of decades of resistance of updating the core rules or letting any other 3rd party touch it.

I think these strange publishing experiments are likely to happen in direct proportion on how low on cash they are.

Well, back on topic...

My miniatures arrived!!! thanks Talizvar!!!!



The only downside is that the QR are literally a 3D print moulded and casted in metal. Just as some said here.



But I started already polishing the Queadluun Rau for the process I cannot comment here publicly xD
YAY! And using dental polishing discs made it far easier

On the other hand, I got the print test for the cards of the wave 2. The printing quality is beaaaautiful!! And not as expensive as I thought it would be. The cardboard is a bit thicker than the original cards, but I don't mind, the quality is super good!


More pics of the polished QRs soon!