Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2016/08/30 15:36:33
Subject: Re:Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Morgan Vening wrote: I mean, it's better than nothing, and it'll be OK once it's all out. But that's assuming they follow through, and deliver on everything they've promised. If they only put up the Stat Cards before this promise fizzles out, with no ability to play any of the units they've put up, that'll be peak Palladium.
I would just like all the cards out so Battlescribe / Armybuilder can be updated for the "complete" game and let us worry about having the physical units... only us crazy bunch would be using it anyway.
Are there therapists for people with "completionist" mental issues?
What used to be a non-issue in day to day life is a real problem dealing with PB.
I know what you mean. Used to be a completionist, but Wizkid's Mechwarrior (and D&D 4E) broke me of that. I am a much happier (?) person these days; there's still the urge to "catch 'em all", but I don't obsess over not having some piece anymore.
Though I'd still love what I paid for...
It never ends well
2016/08/31 12:46:13
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
So, you mean he is claiming that the Chinese have sat on their duffs for 2-3 years, only getting up for 2 reasons, produced nothing, and have come up with a perfect copy of wave 2.
Well that's just great, but I'm not sending them any money until I get my stuff.
"Ask ten different scientists about the environment, population control, genetics, and you'll get ten different answers, but there's one thing every scientist on the planet agrees on. Whether it happens in a hundred years or a thousand years or a million years, eventually our Sun will grow cold and go out. When that happens, it won't just take us. It'll take Marilyn Monroe, and Lao-Tzu, and Einstein, and Morobuto, and Buddy Holly, and Aristophanes…then all of this…all of this…was for nothing. Unless we go to the stars." Commander sinclair, Babylon 5.
Bobtheinquisitor wrote:what is going on with APAC shipping? If Macross Island were real, they'd be the last place to get any Robotechnology.
2016/08/31 14:35:02
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
n815e wrote: The Robotech Miniatures guy is back, this time claiming (as usual, without proof) that Chinese knock-offs of Wave 2 can be found.
actually that is nothing new, albeit sending the items to another factory is new, the way many of the cheap factories do it, is they print product for the customer during the day and product for black market sales at night.
Swabby wrote: The amount of conspiracy theorising going on surrounding this kickstarter is starting to reach crazy town levels.
sad thing is most of the conspiracies surrounding this project are not far off of the actual truth it seems.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/08/31 14:39:01
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2016/08/31 15:15:05
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
n815e wrote:The Robotech Miniatures guy is back, this time claiming (as usual, without proof) that Chinese knock-offs of Wave 2 can be found.
Why am I somewhat excited by this?
But the break from reality is that molds got done??
True to reality is PB not willing to pay for them.
Conrad Turner wrote:So, you mean he is claiming that the Chinese have sat on their duffs for 2-3 years, only getting up for 2 reasons, produced nothing, and have come up with a perfect copy of wave 2.
Well that's just great, but I'm not sending them any money until I get my stuff.
Again, I easily see the Chinese making the molds, not being paid and thinking "might as well put them to good use.".
Swabby wrote:The amount of conspiracy theorising going on surrounding this kickstarter is starting to reach crazy town levels.
Well, when the behavior of a company tends to defy reason: anything is possible.
@n815e: Where is this guy posting their "rumor"?
It is worth a little of my time exploring this possibility, trolling or not.
Heck, if the 3D models were thrown around for quotes, some company may have decided to use them... it is China after all.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
2016/08/31 15:54:07
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
IF the Chinese have moulds, they paid for them out of their own pocket as PB are *still* trying to reduce the part count and have not had time to lock that down, cut the moulds, and run anything more than a test run through them. [and past experience tells me they don't have a snowball's chance of having got that far in the process]
Hell yes, if physical moulds HAVE been made, I can see that happening, but can you honestly say that you have enough confidence that PB have got that far in?
"Ask ten different scientists about the environment, population control, genetics, and you'll get ten different answers, but there's one thing every scientist on the planet agrees on. Whether it happens in a hundred years or a thousand years or a million years, eventually our Sun will grow cold and go out. When that happens, it won't just take us. It'll take Marilyn Monroe, and Lao-Tzu, and Einstein, and Morobuto, and Buddy Holly, and Aristophanes…then all of this…all of this…was for nothing. Unless we go to the stars." Commander sinclair, Babylon 5.
Bobtheinquisitor wrote:what is going on with APAC shipping? If Macross Island were real, they'd be the last place to get any Robotechnology.
2016/08/31 16:17:16
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
OK, presuming that there are bootleg copies of the MAC-II Monster floating around, where is one? Because I've not seen it, and would appreciate some proof of this.
He posted it on Facebook, accompanied by a blurry picture of a storefront that is plastered with model kit posters. Nothing to substantiate any of his claims is actually presented.
2016/08/31 16:22:49
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
"...the problem is he (Siembieda) wont put a pointman over there to keep an eye on things.
Years of experience in dealing with the Chinese tells me this is what likely went down when they were over there in 2014:
Once the company concierge had dropped off PBs project manager at the airport, the designs were already being copied, then sent to a sister factory in the next province over operated by a shell corporation.
This is normal with the Chinese.
Its sort of a grey area that many North American companies choose to accept because the labor costs are so cheap.
Most US companies look the other way when it comes to the potential "side effects", and Palladium is no different.
Cash is King as they say.
Before the plane even left the tarmac, those designs were already being reviewed by unknown third parties and sent to a CAD tech.
Its about thoroughness.
Say what you will about Paulo Parente, the reason why his stuff comes out looking so damn good, and the reason it gets finished and SHIPS is because he is PRESENT.
PB cant say that.
To get this thing in order they need a relay man LIVING there, literally!
LIVING in the factory... to keep an eye on the workers and quality control like Paulo did when he first started DUST, ...while he was still refining his manufacturing process.
He already knew he couldnt trust them by emailing everyday from Europe or wherever he was before he got to China.
It was the smartest thing he could have ever done for his line.
You want wave 2?
Well, Im pretty sure you dont have to go much farther than Macau.
I have lived in China and its not something I would do again.
But, If I WAS living there again and happened to be in Macau, or filthy dirty Shanghai, or even Hong Kong, I am confident I could spot pirated Ninja Division designs fairly quickly.
Yes, in true 1/285 RRT scale.
History and logic tell me that many of Wave 2 are likely already available now aside from maybe 2 or 3 of the ones that are still in concept.
The Kicker?
These minis have probably been available for YEARS.
Way before North America ever got/gets them and YEARS after the Kickstarter campaign concluded.
That includes the dice, stat cards and everything else that you would have got in the original boxed set too...
The Chinese have been playing Palladium for years with their smoke and mirrors.
I had thought an American company of their size was a little more business savvy than this!"
-Anonymous Hong Kong toy distributor's reaction to Palladiums decision last year to retreat from talks regarding a possible GHQ manufacturing partnership.
Except PB has allegedly been 'trimming the parts count' for years now. Given their need to self-promote and make everything seem huge and grand, I have sincere doubts that they paid for the wave 2 molds, had them cut, didn't say anything (substantial progress like that would've been a big deal), didn't follow up on actually getting the figures made, and then the factory they're working with took things that aren't supposed to exist yet and just started punching out copies of it for distribution.
I totally expect there to be all kinds of knock offs and copies of the older toys out there, but the idea that PB could get within spitting distance of finishing wave 2 while remaining utterly silent about it is insane.
Basically, that guy is full of gak.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/31 16:23:23
2016/08/31 16:24:40
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Forar wrote: I totally expect there to be all kinds of knock offs and copies of the older toys out there, but the idea that PB could get within spitting distance of finishing wave 2 while remaining utterly silent about it is insane.
Basically, that guy is full of gak.
Yeah, after reading that mess, I agree it is a bit much.
Ah well, a guy can dream can't he?
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
2016/08/31 16:28:56
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
"...the problem is he (Siembieda) wont put a pointman over there to keep an eye on things.
Years of experience in dealing with the Chinese tells me this is what likely went down when they were over there in 2014:
Once the company concierge had dropped off PBs project manager at the airport, the designs were already being copied, then sent to a sister factory in the next province over operated by a shell corporation.
This is normal with the Chinese.
Its sort of a grey area that many North American companies choose to accept because the labor costs are so cheap.
Most US companies look the other way when it comes to the potential "side effects", and Palladium is no different.
Cash is King as they say.
Before the plane even left the tarmac, those designs were already being reviewed by unknown third parties and sent to a CAD tech.
Its about thoroughness.
Say what you will about Paulo Parente, the reason why his stuff comes out looking so damn good, and the reason it gets finished and SHIPS is because he is PRESENT.
PB cant say that.
To get this thing in order they need a relay man LIVING there, literally!
LIVING in the factory... to keep an eye on the workers and quality control like Paulo did when he first started DUST, ...while he was still refining his manufacturing process.
He already knew he couldnt trust them by emailing everyday from Europe or wherever he was before he got to China.
It was the smartest thing he could have ever done for his line.
You want wave 2?
Well, Im pretty sure you dont have to go much farther than Macau.
I have lived in China and its not something I would do again.
But, If I WAS living there again and happened to be in Macau, or filthy dirty Shanghai, or even Hong Kong, I am confident I could spot pirated Ninja Division designs fairly quickly.
Yes, in true 1/285 RRT scale.
History and logic tell me that many of Wave 2 are likely already available now aside from maybe 2 or 3 of the ones that are still in concept.
The Kicker?
These minis have probably been available for YEARS.
Way before North America ever got/gets them and YEARS after the Kickstarter campaign concluded.
That includes the dice, stat cards and everything else that you would have got in the original boxed set too...
The Chinese have been playing Palladium for years with their smoke and mirrors.
I had thought an American company of their size was a little more business savvy than this!"
-Anonymous Hong Kong toy distributor's reaction to Palladiums decision last year to retreat from talks regarding a possible GHQ manufacturing partnership.
Except PB has allegedly been 'trimming the parts count' for years now. Given their need to self-promote and make everything seem huge and grand, I have sincere doubts that they paid for the wave 2 molds, had them cut, didn't say anything (substantial progress like that would've been a big deal), didn't follow up on actually getting the figures made, and then the factory they're working with took things that aren't supposed to exist yet and just started punching out copies of it for distribution.
I totally expect there to be all kinds of knock offs and copies of the older toys out there, but the idea that PB could get within spitting distance of finishing wave 2 while remaining utterly silent about it is insane.
Basically, that guy is full of gak.
well yes and no, if the Chinese have the designs then that is most likely to happen, they will see an opening PB left open, but did they do it? no evidence as of yet that has been done.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2016/08/31 16:55:23
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
I vaguely recall that one of his posts made it to BoW or similar site, where he "quoted" Wayne (it was fabricated) about production.
I'm actually pretty amazed that anyone believes any of his posts, at this point. But based on the reactions, they seem to.
Automatically Appended Next Post: He responded to his own post about Chinese bootlegged RRT models by linking to a Shapeways Super VT and writing "here ya go fellas!.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/08/31 17:03:17
2016/08/31 17:33:15
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
I vaguely recall that one of his posts made it to BoW or similar site, where he "quoted" Wayne (it was fabricated) about production.
I'm actually pretty amazed that anyone believes any of his posts, at this point. But based on the reactions, they seem to.
Automatically Appended Next Post: He responded to his own post about Chinese bootlegged RRT models by linking to a Shapeways Super VT and writing "here ya go fellas!.
It's fine to wish, but push rumor, especially thin ones as truth is pretty bad.
I vaguely recall that one of his posts made it to BoW or similar site, where he "quoted" Wayne (it was fabricated) about production.
I'm actually pretty amazed that anyone believes any of his posts, at this point. But based on the reactions, they seem to.
Automatically Appended Next Post: He responded to his own post about Chinese bootlegged RRT models by linking to a Shapeways Super VT and writing "here ya go fellas!.
It's fine to wish, but push rumor, especially thin ones as truth is pretty bad.
who is the guy running that site?
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2016/08/31 19:10:26
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Day 3, two more cards up. We'll see if they can keep it up.
Of course, they're still just stat cards (AValk S and D), which is all information that can be found in the book, and doesn't help people actually use the Wave 2 paper standees (or those that sourced elsewhere), in a game.
And given that the 1A, 1J, 1S and 1D are all for the most part identical, it's arguably the least amount of work they could do.
I'd also like to point out something I only noticed today. The copyright tag at the bottom is 2014. Which, for a company that is usually ALL OVER protecting it's rights to an obscene level, implies (but doesn't prove) that these things have been lying around PBHQ untouched for 2 years. Which is in itself an indictment on this clusterfeth of a company.
2016/08/31 19:16:07
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Morgan Vening wrote: Day 3, two more cards up. We'll see if they can keep it up.
Of course, they're still just stat cards (AValk S and D), which is all information that can be found in the book, and doesn't help people actually use the Wave 2 paper standees (or those that sourced elsewhere), in a game.
And given that the 1A, 1J, 1S and 1D are all for the most part identical, it's arguably the least amount of work they could do.
I'd also like to point out something I only noticed today. The copyright tag at the bottom is 2014. Which, for a company that is usually ALL OVER protecting it's rights to an obscene level, implies (but doesn't prove) that these things have been lying around PBHQ untouched for 2 years. Which is in itself an indictment on this clusterfeth of a company.
Yeh, I noticed they do that in their books too. Two years between Kevin's dated forward and the publication or artwork date.
Which you would think would indicate Wave 2 would be next year, but......
It never ends well
2016/08/31 23:35:53
Subject: Re:Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
The funny thing about his statement is he lists three places in China.. Two are right beside each other... Macau and Hong Kong..
Plus.. having actually traveled there a number of times.. Macau is more like Las Vegas / resort town instead of a manufacturing area..
Sounds like he is getting his information from a documentary about china from the 1980s..
Plus why are the counterfeiters going after a dead licence and obscure scale model.. and not Disney or coke..
Yes.. there is counterfeit items can be found in china.. but since the last decade the Chinese government has really cut back on allowing it
and more foreign corporations have stores that sale the official product.
Back to topic... My personal feeling is..1.4 million is gone spent on digging Palladium out of a hole it was in..
There will never be a wave 2 and people are lucky to find a game of RRT being played in their area, now or ever..
This game if done right has so much potential.. additional lines like Invid war.. etc..
instead it was taken over by a group of people that didn't have the first clue on what they where doing and after
three years of learning.. now the money is gone..
2016/08/31 23:41:02
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Macross is a live license in Japan / Asia, and the new Mac Delta stuff would be nice to counterfeit for. However, it's not like anybody would have needed anything from Palladium to make their counterfeit items from. It is entirely possible that some counterfeit Macross goods were found based upon Gashapon or candy kits, and someone may have stolen the Robotech labeling to skirt Japanese Macross trademarks.
But I'd need to see a photo of the actual item claimed for sale.
Short of a photo of an actual RRT item, it's just more lies and smoke and mirrors and BS.
too be honest with the way PB has lied to us and misled us there are times I want to just say feth it and sell off all my Robotech miniatures. PB has really burned me on Robotech.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2016/09/01 01:31:59
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Morgan Vening wrote: Day 3, two more cards up. We'll see if they can keep it up.
Of course, they're still just stat cards (AValk S and D), which is all information that can be found in the book, and doesn't help people actually use the Wave 2 paper standees (or those that sourced elsewhere), in a game.
And given that the 1A, 1J, 1S and 1D are all for the most part identical, it's arguably the least amount of work they could do.
I'd also like to point out something I only noticed today. The copyright tag at the bottom is 2014. Which, for a company that is usually ALL OVER protecting it's rights to an obscene level, implies (but doesn't prove) that these things have been lying around PBHQ untouched for 2 years. Which is in itself an indictment on this clusterfeth of a company.
That would be because, as i said previously, the cards were already done as of may 2014. Hell mike has had them since then. That is what he used to know the points forbhis custom ones and they were sent to all play testers as along with the print ready version of the rules. Lacadaisical is an understatement.
2016/09/01 02:48:27
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
I totally expect there to be all kinds of knock offs and copies of the older toys out there, but the idea that PB could get within spitting distance of finishing wave 2 while remaining utterly silent about it is insane.
Basically, that guy is full of gak.
Most likely. Extremely most likely.
However, how close is close? Ten more molds that they put down 20% good faith money (the other 80% to be generated by Wave One sales), and they still owe the other 80%. The "reducing parts count" is clearly a load of gak - I mean come on, they could make them single piece figures if they really wanted to and reduce them all the way down to a single piece in a way of giving a all the "not real fan whiners" the finger. Seriously, give me one good reason that it would take YEARS to reduce parts count.
Thing is, what if there is only one step to finishing this whole farce? If that step is giving the company holding their molds hostage their 80%, they may as well be sitting on the moon for all the chance PB has of getting their hands on them.
So, don't think of it as "only one step", think of it as "A pile of money Kevin Simbieda will never be able to provide".
2016/09/01 02:56:03
Subject: Re:Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Asterios wrote: too be honest with the way PB has lied to us and misled us there are times I want to just say feth it and sell off all my Robotech miniatures. PB has really burned me on Robotech.
Don't let them do it to you man. One fan to another, these guys had nothing whatsoever to do with what you and I fell in love with. Don't let them ruin that for you. I don't know what got you in this, but my childhood memories are worth way more than anything palladium can do to soil them.
2016/09/01 03:13:21
Subject: Re:Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Asterios wrote: too be honest with the way PB has lied to us and misled us there are times I want to just say feth it and sell off all my Robotech miniatures. PB has really burned me on Robotech.
Don't let them do it to you man. One fan to another, these guys had nothing whatsoever to do with what you and I fell in love with. Don't let them ruin that for you. I don't know what got you in this, but my childhood memories are worth way more than anything palladium can do to soil them.
before this fiasco the only dealings I ever had with Palladium was their Robotech RPG books, never really played the game since found the rules lacking, but still got all the books just for the fact they were Robotech, and then when i saw this fiasco I thought wow they are still around and Robotech miniatures cool, so got a bunch and several years later still waiting on half of them.
meanwhile with nothing new coming out from PB i'm getting burned out and thinking I could probably work on Dropzone Commander, there is a play group and the company does support the game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/01 03:24:04
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2016/09/01 14:04:31
Subject: Re:Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Well, you build models (albeit slowly), paint them and you have something to look at.
You get a bunch done (eventually) and you can play something.
Get a few destroids and you could maybe include a few into your Battletech collection.
Look into shapeways and see if some wave 2 stuff is to be had.
Doing these things feels better.
You can enjoy Robotech and just treat PB keeping your money as a different matter to address.
I have found interest in the game is in direct proportion to how much further I get painting the miniatures.
I am especially interested in the "book" of scenarios since that is what I typically create in order to entice people to play a new game.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
2016/09/01 14:28:22
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
The "reducing parts count" is clearly a load of gak - I mean come on, they could make them single piece figures if they really wanted to and reduce them all the way down to a single piece in a way of giving a all the "not real fan whiners" the finger. Seriously, give me one good reason that it would take YEARS to reduce parts count.
You know what's the most... weird is the best word I have for this. Weird thing about the parts reduction?
RRT is marketed as a RPG supplement, not a full-on wargame, most likely because of licensing restrictions. I'm ok with playing with that song and dance just to get some form of miniatures on the market.
The odd thing is, the most relevant RPG miniature supplement game that has been in the market, is the D&D Miniatures game back a decade or so, and the various current RPG supplement miniatures, which are mostly one-piece miniatures -- and some come pre-painted to boot. And serve the purpose well enough. Done properly, one-piece mecha miniatures would be easy enough for the hobbyist to convert, and if you put enough variation in the pose, more than enough to satisfying a good portion of the target audience.
2016/09/01 15:05:56
Subject: Re:Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Talizvar wrote: Well, you build models (albeit slowly), paint them and you have something to look at.
You get a bunch done (eventually) and you can play something.
Get a few destroids and you could maybe include a few into your Battletech collection.
Look into shapeways and see if some wave 2 stuff is to be had.
Doing these things feels better.
You can enjoy Robotech and just treat PB keeping your money as a different matter to address.
I have found interest in the game is in direct proportion to how much further I get painting the miniatures.
I am especially interested in the "book" of scenarios since that is what I typically create in order to entice people to play a new game.
problem is have you seen that video I posted? I have a few of the minis done, also I have wave 2 gak I did myself and other generations too.
doing these things did not make me feel better, it just reminded me that I wasted time and money on a failed project from a failed company who essentially stole from me, they made promises they broke. all the people by me who got into the game quit and do not want to play the game, and nobody wants to play the game.
in fact here is my video again in case you missed it:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/01 15:07:10
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
-- $k 
-- 9k 
-- 6k 
-- 4k 
-- 
