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 Lynx7725 wrote:
Speaking of Savage Rifts, what the status of that KS? In the interest of keeping things mod-friendly, I'm just curious if they are still On-Time, On-Target.

it is currently past due with some digital items going out.

 Lynx7725 wrote:
Speaking of Savage Rifts, what the status of that KS? In the interest of keeping things mod-friendly, I'm just curious if they are still On-Time, On-Target.

They have done extremely well.
I kept my $1 in and they seem to have hit this one out of the park.
They have been putting out a ton of materials and errata as well as bonus stuff.
They have been running pretty much on time but the physical items were slated for Nov 2016 but looks like tail end of December will happen (I think due to fixes to the big books).
All electronic copies / versions are all available.

So you could say I suffer from mixed feelings.

See the KS link: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/545820095/rifts-for-savage-worlds/updates
BUT their company site gives a much better idea of the volume of product they put out: https://www.peginc.com/product-category/rifts/

Too bad I do not do RPG anymore, in a prior life I would have been quite excited about their material.
I think PB figured the fan-boys would come back for the "original" product but from what I see, Savage Worlds has completely taken over the subject and brought it forward a fair bit.

I almost want the stuff just to have better memories about the subject.

It is a fine example of a good company that managed to do what they wanted, too bad we were not so lucky.

I too am mixed in my feelings about that. I would have killed to fund something like that a few years ago (prior to Dec 2013 for instance!) but I won't give Palladium another penny whether directly or indirectly until I get what they owe me already. I'm glad that something nice seems to apparently be shaking out the other end (god knows the official RPG stagnated around 2000ish) but it's bittersweet looking at the compete lack of progress on this front especially once you consider their complete lack of sympathy let alone solidarity with their fellow backers.

I expect Alex immediately proclaimed that Kevin had redefined the colonoscopy!

Oh, he certainly did that.

First time they ever went that direction to get to it!

Well this still going with reading the last two pages of post. Tailivar I like to wonder if ND had full control of this game we be done by now on to the next KS for RRT SC. I really wonder what PB did to ND to piss them off to leave. I think they had something in their contract that if PB mess with this game they were gone. But now we just looking at crap of game . Its funning that I told a friend mine who ran a Game Hobby shop in Detroit a long time ago. BTW he warn me about PB and Kevin. I apologize to him for not listen to his warning. He forgave me and hated Kevin with passion.

 Lynx7725 wrote:
Speaking of Savage Rifts, what the status of that KS? In the interest of keeping things mod-friendly, I'm just curious if they are still On-Time, On-Target.

Cursory examination has them late, but arguably within the margin of error (due November, looking to be ready to start shipping December for the physical rewards, the PDF's seem to have been done. On Nov 5 they did a mini status report, saying the delays weren't PB related, and it was mostly convention related (ie, time spent at cons). It also seems that the Creator of the Kickstarter (Shane Hensley) has parted ways, though that's a different person to the Creator of the product (Sean Patrick Fannon)

In another post it's mentioned that one of the bigger manuscript delays is the conversion book. Because the two "game plays are so different", it's apparently a difficult task.

Speaking of conversions, I tried to do a search to find out if PB had clarified their conversion policy. As expected, the PB Forums are borked when it comes to ease of searching. Best I could find was this thread, which had some discussion back in July, with a quote from PBWU of July 8th
"Excitement continues to run high for Savage Rifts® from Pinnacle Entertainment for the Savage Worlds game system. Palladium is working with Pinnacle to allow fans to create conversions and fan materials on the Palladium website and elsewhere. The official policy will be coming soon.".
One Forum poster expressed disappointment at the last two words. A link to Pinnacle's policy, which is essentiially "Ask PB, not us". Dakka's own Forar gets into an argument with a PB zealot, and NMI posted in late July,
"In regards to Savage Rifts, I am waiting on feedback from Kevin. Once I have the ok, I will be putting together a disclaimer of sorts - what sort of conversions can/cannot be posted, questions, etc...". Nothing has been updated since, at least not in an easy to find location. Shocking, right? I know I was.

TLDR: Pinnacle seem to be doing their job in a reasonable fashion, and PB and their flunkies keep Palladiumbing it up. So, nothing unexpected.

ND were no angels at that time either having screwed up their first kickstarter (the anime PVC minis game whose name I can't recall at the moment); I live in the same town as CMON/newwave (again.. themselves not spotless either!) and I heard some admittedly one sided very negative things about what went down with that game leading to the delay.

I doubt ND had a catch clause like that in the contract; Kevin covers his own ass (usually on pedantic unimportant things) but I've never heard of his letting others do the same. My own suspicion is that Palladium simply wanted them to work BEYOND what they actually specified in the contract for no additional pay (because that is apparently the status quo at PB which Kevin expects from underlings... see posts above)... and Ninja Division (again being no angels themselves) probably just said "no" and washed their hands of a fellow manipulator/incompetent after they fulfilled the letter of the contract.

The difference though is that both CMON and ND seemed to have learned from their mistakes and have improved (especially CMON)... whereas Palladium is perfectly content to wallow in their own gak filled pig pen for as long as our money will let them.

Thanks Warboss for the information. What funning is ND people were still posting up to July 03 2013 and then July 07 2013 it was PB after that. The only question HG going to dump PB from Robotech license?

Exactly. ND worked to the letter of the contract.

Thanks all. I wish no ill to the Savage Rifts project, was just wondering if a certain disease spread out. It's good to hear that things are smoother there.

DEZOAT wrote:
Thanks Warboss for the information. What funning is ND people were still posting up to July 03 2013 and then July 07 2013 it was PB after that. The only question HG going to dump PB from Robotech license?

IIRC Palladium posted that they expected ND to handle everything post campaign whereas ND (and apparently the letter of the contract otherwise Palladium would have publicly said so) thought otherwise. IIRC, there was a few months of silence on updates and palladium's first post after that was to say they didn't know that *THEY* were the ones who were supposed to be doing that. It took them quite a while to care enough to bother checking in on the kickstarter and see that NO ONE was officially posting. Yup, they cashed that big ol' $1.4 million payment (minus fees) and never checked back apparently for weeks or possibly months. It was and continues to be an amateur hour gak show.

HG's not going to dump Palladium. They've said publicly that Palladium was and is one of their longest running licensees and they respect that and can only "nudge" wayward licensees along the path back to not screwing up. In any case, HG is no better than Palladium anyways which is probably why they traditionally got along so well; for years, their anime con panels featured Palladium prominently (mainly because there for all intents and purposes was no one else to show other than some toy figs and skateboards). If they pull the RPG license from Palladium, there likely isn't anyone else that would pick it up.

Over the last years since my first personal contact with PB, then introducing them to other entities to work on minis and more, I have found that they make huge assumptions that others are going to do all or most of the heavy lifting and that they simply need to reel in the rewards due to the license.

Sad, but this has been the pattern for a long time as I hear more and more from people who have known PB for a much longer time than I have.

You tow the line or are counted as a blemish or even worse, a threat.

Mike, any inside rumors from the aborted GZG deal? (or whoever it was that was supposed to do the conventional units, not sure if it was GZG)

DEZOAT wrote:
Well this still going with reading the last two pages of post. Tailivar I like to wonder if ND had full control of this game we be done by now on to the next KS for RRT SC. I really wonder what PB did to ND to piss them off to leave. I think they had something in their contract that if PB mess with this game they were gone. But now we just looking at crap of game . Its funning that I told a friend mine who ran a Game Hobby shop in Detroit a long time ago. BTW he warn me about PB and Kevin. I apologize to him for not listen to his warning. He forgave me and hated Kevin with passion.

Well, I appreciate your thoughts on this matter but I think we are firmly into "what do we do now?" stage of things.
As long as various 3D models are available for purchase, I will try to complete to some reasonable standard my RRT miniature collection and pretend Palladium does not exist.
I am surprised how unwilling I am to let some $100+ go from the backer kit purchases I made.
I think it is because it allows them to stay in business that little bit longer.

 warboss wrote:
Mike, any inside rumors from the aborted GZG deal? (or whoever it was that was supposed to do the conventional units, not sure if it was GZG)

It was GHQ. Seems like PB expected them to basically do most the work while they added some Conventional Unit cards into the box and then marked it up a buck or so and walked away with that extra buck or so. Since all you need is the stats.....why would anyone pay more for the minis? That was the major issue that was pointed out by some fans right away. There is more but out of respect for both parties I really shouldn't say more than that.

"Let someone else do the work, reap the reward" seems to be PB's motto - or at least recurring theme.

 Mike1975 wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Mike, any inside rumors from the aborted GZG deal? (or whoever it was that was supposed to do the conventional units, not sure if it was GZG)

It was GHQ. Seems like PB expected them to basically do most the work while they added some Conventional Unit cards into the box and then marked it up a buck or so and walked away with that extra buck or so. Since all you need is the stats.....why would anyone pay more for the minis? That was the major issue that was pointed out by some fans right away. There is more but out of respect for both parties I really shouldn't say more than that.

I can respect that but figured I'd ask just in case. It just seemed like just backer anger/angst couldn't be the only reason since with Palladium there usually is some kind of interpersonal drama behind the scenes.

 warboss wrote:
ND were no angels at that time either having screwed up their first kickstarter (the anime PVC minis game whose name I can't recall at the moment);

Relic Knights. I didn't back, nor have I ever picked up any of those models. I just remembered the name.

I don't understand the chibi stuff myself.

Relic Knights wasn't chibi - but what it was was a rather poor use of 'restic' and, IMO, really failed to deliver quality models.

I think they've since gone to 'real resin' for all of the Relic Knights line?

A good cautionary tale, maybe?

If wave 2 goes PVC, well, it might not be all that good.

But at least it would be...something?

OK, well, maybe not "chibi" but whatever most of the girls on this page count as: http://sodapopminiatures.com/game-relic-knights/

They will change the scale and material for wave 2; end up being the same as the stuff you get out of bubble gum machines..
That way Palladium can save on cost.. I am sure Kevin still needs more animation cells..

Merijeek wrote:
OK, well, maybe not "chibi" but whatever most of the girls on this page count as: http://sodapopminiatures.com/game-relic-knights/

The stuff on the top banner is chibi but it's not relic knights. Relic knights is more cheesecake to borrow a term I've seen here on Dakka for the oversexualized faux innocent female figs. I'm not a fan of either in minis games personally. Ymmv.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Forar wrote:

Relic Knights. I didn't back, nor have I ever picked up any of those models. I just remembered the name.

Yup, that's the one. Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alpharius wrote:
Relic Knights wasn't chibi - but what it was was a rather poor use of 'restic' and, IMO, really failed to deliver quality models.

I think they've since gone to 'real resin' for all of the Relic Knights line?

A good cautionary tale, maybe?

If wave 2 goes PVC, well, it might not be all that good.

But at least it would be...something?

At this point, I'd take it over another 3 years of nothing. I did see an announcement about them switching back to resin (iirc they started some of the line in resin originally pre kickstarter).

Sure, I am confident enough to make a "silk purse out of sow's ear" with whatever model material and sculpt they choose, I would take whatever they can scrounge.
It may even take less work prettying up something resin over a lower quality 3D printed model.

I am just wondering how Kevin will make his problem, ours.
Lower quality models would certainly convey his level of commitment to the "future" of RRT.
Probably about as innovative and progressive as his latest other published works.

Wave 2 RRT miniatures, made from innovative casting material: ice.
Find them in your local freezer section.

Kevin will tell us: "People pay a lot for ice sculptures. This is the second best deal in gaming."

What gets me is Shane leaving the Rifts Savage World kick starter.. He is the main guy behind Savage Worlds and seems to be the one that did most of the work on Rifts SW..
I know Kevin has gave RRT backers the royal shaft.. but Shane was someone that was trying to help right the boat, but then I think Kevin is the scorpion on the frogs back.

Also my prediction for 2017 is a nice letter from Palladium game stating their bankruptcy and a not so detailed line items for where the money went for RRT.

$100,000 Kick starter cut
$342,312 cost of wave 1
$1,000,000 administrative cost

with no other explication.

I completely understand most people don't realize when making a kick stater that most cost are more than they money raise, Sometimes as small as 10% of total project
It is a way to generate interest and see the number of people willing to buy the product, They should plan all the costs and risks before even going to kick starter.

Some time back, the cost estimate I had worked out was that over $800,000 had been spent on Wave 1 stock alone.

It was well over a year ago, so I don't remember most of the calculations, but it was based on numbers pulled from PBWU updates and KS information/updates.

If this wasn't an ongoing gakshow, I could have asked my friend to make some in chocolate.

 Genoside07 wrote:
What gets me is Shane leaving the Rifts Savage World kick starter.. He is the main guy behind Savage Worlds and seems to be the one that did most of the work on Rifts SW..
I know Kevin has gave RRT backers the royal shaft.. but Shane was someone that was trying to help right the boat, but then I think Kevin is the scorpion on the frogs back.

Also my prediction for 2017 is a nice letter from Palladium game stating their bankruptcy and a not so detailed line items for where the money went for RRT.

Nah, they have no reason to declare bankruptcy. No one is going after them for kickstarter funds and they can just keep living off of the remaining amount whatever it is (whether interest or slowing chipping away at the principal) as the project "boils" over yet paradoxically has nothing to report for years.

As for rifts SW, do you have a link to Shane leaving? I don't doubt you but I just don't follow it. Is he leaving PEG or just that project? Is someone from Palladium taking over like with Robotech and Ninja Division?