Robotech® RPG Tactics™-License lost, the end is near!

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**evilsmurf**

There's a full on war over at the 4chan thread. Id guess thats nimmy over there stirring things up.

**Sining**

Oh no, better go over there and quell those haters too. Otherwise Kevin might have even more of an excuse not to deliver wave 2. Maybe if NMI can just delete all those posts like he does at the PB forums

**Joyboozer**

Off topic I know, but has anyone heard from johnHwangDD? He just vanished?

**ced1106**

I found the 4chan thread, Palladium Games can Kill?. Too lazy for a screenshot, so here's the first page.

Palladium Games can Kill? Anonymous 02/18/17(Sat)22:54:00 No.51798553 [Reply]▶>>51798632 >>51798655 >>51799048 >>51799387 >>51800770 >>51802343 >>51802451 >>51803244 >>51804164
So for the dozen or so people that still play Palladium Games (Rifts etc) and/or Robotech RPG Tactics, Carmen Bellaire tried to alpha-male the RRT comments section and got pretty roasted and bailed from the fire claiming health issues. RRT kickstarter backers all recieved the following update from Uncle Kevin himself about 20 minutes ago. Thoughts?
+Showing all replies.
>>
Anonymous 02/18/17(Sat)23:02:51 No.51798632 ▶>>51798787 >>51818486
>>51798553 (OP)
Honestly in terms of gak that goes down in trolling Carmen wasn't roasted that bad. He got told to feth off and had threats of $1 troll pledges on his Rifts boardgame kickscammer for threatening to hinder RRT Wave 2.

I think the dude has Bipolar, had a Manic Episode when he got all aggressive on the RRT backers, then went full depression when he came down which was aggravated by his previous aggression met with aggression.

Ultimately his blood is on Uncle Kevin's hands.
>>
Anonymous 02/18/17(Sat)23:05:58 No.51798655 ▶>>51798793
File: we need to talk about kev(...).jpg (481 KB, 1209x769)
481 KB
>>51798553 (OP)
Getting involved with Kev personally would damage even the most stable psyche
Feel sorry for the guy but man, it's not like he wouldn't have been warned
>>
Anonymous 02/18/17(Sat)23:21:45 No.51798787 ▶>>51798822
>>51798632

Yeah, in general I'd agree. But given how much Palladium's own website, FB group, etc tries to insulate itself from recieving actual criticism, this apparently came across as a rude awakening.
>>
Anonymous 02/18/17(Sat)23:22:49 No.51798793 ▶
>>51798655
I don't even feel slightly sorry for him.

He was gaking it up big time in the middle of a crowd of already extremely pissed off RRT backers who've waited years while Kev pissed away their money.

That gak was a hornet's nest in an alligator pit and he stuck his dick in it.
>>
Anonymous 02/18/17(Sat)23:25:58 No.51798822 ▶>>51798916
>>51798787
Didn't take me long to figure it out and my last info about Palladium was back in 2006. That kickscammer page is full of comments from people who want to kill a man, and don't seem to care which man.
>>
Anonymous 02/18/17(Sat)23:35:43 No.51798916 ▶>>51804194
>>51798822
I am reading though the comments that led up to this and they are pretty fething mild.

Anonymous 02/19/17(Sun)15:29:05 No.51808410 ▶>>51808549 >>51808944 >>51809100 >>51809334 >>51810176 >>51813107
Today is your daily reminder that 4chan is filled with massive troll donkey-caves.

I don't give a flying feth what people think of Kevin.
Someone tried to kill themselves. It's not a funny joke at that point, you autistic fuckwits.
>>
Anonymous 02/19/17(Sun)15:38:40 No.51808549 ▶
>>51808410
Thanks for the bump NMI. If you can't take the heat, go back to the Hugbox of the Megaverse.

Anonymous 02/20/17(Mon)07:28:10 No.51817854 ▶>>51817940 >>51817948 >>51818114 >>51818171 >>51818253 >>51818942 >>51819378 >>51831127
Holy feth you people are psychotic.

Someone tries to kill themselves:

>"LOL GO BACK TO YOUR HUGBOX"

Can you even for one second of your life understand that harassing someone and trying to ruin their lives isn't fething funny?
>>
Anonymous 02/20/17(Mon)07:30:55 No.51817891 ▶
My, no NMI coming back on here? Must be hitting the delete post button like a trooper in the Nazi forum

Anonymous 02/20/17(Mon)07:52:26 No.51818113 ▶>>51818258 >>51819266 >>51828437
Carmen obviously already had serious issues if some comments on the Robotech Tactics KS page were enough to push him over the edge to attempt to kill himself.

That being said it is hard to understand how much people hold something important. By Carmens own admission he got his wife's permission (yes he is one of those guys) to take his profits from his work at upper deck and sink them into a Rifts board game licenses.

I wish him a full recovery. I also want the Rifts board game to get made.

The reality is Palladium and Kevin are broke, in debt and have been for years. A bankruptcy wont get backers thier money back.

I've written for Palladium as a freelancer. It took me 6 weeks of pestering then to get my measly $400 check.

My theory is that Every new release from Palladium is just enough to make pay roll, rent and keep the lights on. Pay the bare minimum to creditors and the printer. Kevin holds out hope a Palladium IP will hit it big time with a licensing deal. Thats really his only hope as his antics (he has been doing this unprofessional gak since the 1980s) and dated products are alienating long time fans and keeping out new comers.

Kevin will sell more of his "collectibles" he squandered the fortune TMNT, Rifts and Robotech VHS tapes made him back in the 1990s. Keep hoping for a big licensing pay day and keep pumping out Rifts books to squeek by. Keep snowing fans as best as he is able and blaming everyone but himself.

**Joyboozer**

Was it actually NMI? Or is it just an insult to call people that now?

**jaymz**

Link to the 4chan thread?

**Talizvar**

I increasingly feel numb over the whole thing.
Kevin is happy because he is getting attention again, good or bad it is all good.
PB has our money from the RRT KS and I am 98% certain we will not see the rewards owed from PB.
Carmen gave Kevin money for licensing for Rifts and I will have to assume it was no small sum.
How many people does this guy have to rip off till people stop making excuses for him?

He is not getting any more of my money ever.
I am happy to explain the history of his company and their practices over and over so that people can spend it somewhere better and PB is one day closer to no longer doing harm.

I like you folk, we have a similar like for the IP, we are under no obligation to like the company who provides the "toys" (I feel that with Games Workshop on occasion).
I have a large box of 3D printed stuff I got this morning that reminds me I am trying to put myself in a happier place so I can move-on at least emotionally.
It allows me to be more honest with myself and to be sure I am not largely doing my bit out of petty revenge.

Maybe the ban on me for KS was a good thing.
Maybe I would have said something I would have regretted?
I think I have been comfortable with what I have said so-far.

I do agree that the few who resort to wishing harm lack a serious amount of perspective.
Name calling will happen usually stemming from frustration.
To be strung along for so many years without closure is so incredibly maddening.
Kevin will always find some excuse, as pointed out making it easy for him is not helpful.

We all will have to find our emotional distance in order to be constructive, I really do not want to sit back and let Kevin scam more people but I also think he deserves zero attention: he is all about the attention.

It is so irritating that Carmen's issue is getting so buried under all this bull so much of his personal information has been divulged: so much about him is none of our business.

**CaptKaruthors**

You didn't actually read the exchange, did you?

Yes. I read the entire damn thing. I've read everything on PB forums. What's your point?

Because I've gone over it a few times (my own comment and those of others), and while obviously he took things to heart in a hard way, that wasn't a fraction as ugly as "Spartangate" was, or the pre-Gencon 'vote', or any number of controversies.

You're making it sound like he was dogpiled by dozens of people hurling horrific invective.

No, I'm saying people handled it poorly. Ask yourself this: what was there to be gained by any of it? Like seriously...even if you feel the level of angst wasn't dialed to an 11...maybe an 8...it still doesn't change the fact that people were scalping the wrong guy.

Other than a heated exchange with Jay D, and a little snark from a few others (yes, myself included) based on his insultingly aggressive opening statements, let's try to keep perspective that while this exchange may have been the final straw for him, we had nothing to do with the leadup to that, nor any way of knowing that he was in a fragile state of mind.

He picked the fight, and I'm sorry that it went fething sideways as it did, but a little perspective and context are necessary as well.

You're right he did pick a fight...and I said already that really..what response did he think he'd get by entering the viper pit? He also chose to handle his business poorly in that regard. He should have left well enough alone. However, so should have everyone else. Is it really worth a feth to pick a fight with this guy? And why? What's the end game? Self aggrandizement? At the end of the day...nothing good would have come from it.

Edit: yes, some people have had an... impressively narrow focus on "Sorry about Carmen, ps where is Wave Two?" in the comments. That certainly can come across as crass and crude. I think it's an extension of the general disdain people have for Kevin's attempt to paint the entire backer base in a negative light with this latest tragedy, and are responding with a figurative 'flip him the bird' for how little they accept the guilt and blame he's trying to lay upon them.

Kevin is an idiot for even airing the dirty laundry of Carmen's health. Nothing needed to be said. He should have kept his mouth shut. It's not anyone's business especially the publics. It's a private matter for no one to be privy to.

To an outsider it's probably kinda gross. Some people probably are being kinda gross. But again, in a project with over 5,000 backers, painting us ALL in any light based on the actions or words of a couple (or a couple dozen) when we have little or no control over the community is, as I noted above, just attempting to use this situation/controversy/tragedy to ones own end. Which is in itself inappropriate. Bluntly put, coming in on a high horse and yelling YOU PEOPLE MAKE ME SICK in one fashion or another to show off how disappointed you are is just virtue signaling by another form.

Outsider? I've been here since the beginning, but unlike the rest...saying where's wave 2 and posting about how much I loathe Kevin and his business practices can only be said and stated so many times before it gets completely vapid. This isn't me coming in on my "high horse"...it's me putting 270+ pages of the same crap into perspective. 270+ pages of the same things being said repeatedly. If this event shows anything...it should show everyone that it's time to move the F on...in whatever manner that suits people.

And none of us here are 'outsiders'. We should know most of this history by now, so take your outrage and direct it towards where it belongs.

I'm not outraged at anyone. That's your opinion. I'll return to lurking now as posting in this thread is largely pointless now. Good day sir.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:
Well this where I part company with a lot of you - I'd like to see PB not only survive but also thrive, for the sake of the people who like Rifts, etc. ... and of course because I'd love to see more RRT stuff. But PB will never thrive as long as Kevin can profit from abusive business practices. So I see the right thing for backers to do is pass on the truth of how poorly managed RRT has been and that Kevin has shown no real progress on turning that around. As long as that is the case, people should be put on notice to steer clear of PB. But I am ready to give credit where it's due should we see some real progress.

Agreed.

**Merijeek**

If NMI tries to kill himself over meanness over at 4chan is it only 4chan posters who get the blame, or will we be blamed, too? Or do we just wait for Simbieda to inform us that we're to blame?

I'd just like to know ahead of time.

**Asterios**

CaptKaruthors wrote:
You didn't actually read the exchange, did you?

Yes. I read the entire damn thing. I've read everything on PB forums. What's your point?

Because I've gone over it a few times (my own comment and those of others), and while obviously he took things to heart in a hard way, that wasn't a fraction as ugly as "Spartangate" was, or the pre-Gencon 'vote', or any number of controversies.

You're making it sound like he was dogpiled by dozens of people hurling horrific invective.

No, I'm saying people handled it poorly. Ask yourself this: what was there to be gained by any of it? Like seriously...even if you feel the level of angst wasn't dialed to an 11...maybe an 8...it still doesn't change the fact that people were scalping the wrong guy.

Other than a heated exchange with Jay D, and a little snark from a few others (yes, myself included) based on his insultingly aggressive opening statements, let's try to keep perspective that while this exchange may have been the final straw for him, we had nothing to do with the leadup to that, nor any way of knowing that he was in a fragile state of mind.

He picked the fight, and I'm sorry that it went fething sideways as it did, but a little perspective and context are necessary as well.

You're right he did pick a fight...and I said already that really..what response did he think he'd get by entering the viper pit? He also chose to handle his business poorly in that regard. He should have left well enough alone. However, so should have everyone else. Is it really worth a feth to pick a fight with this guy? And why? What's the end game? Self aggrandizement? At the end of the day...nothing good would have come from it.

Edit: yes, some people have had an... impressively narrow focus on "Sorry about Carmen, ps where is Wave Two?" in the comments. That certainly can come across as crass and crude. I think it's an extension of the general disdain people have for Kevin's attempt to paint the entire backer base in a negative light with this latest tragedy, and are responding with a figurative 'flip him the bird' for how little they accept the guilt and blame he's trying to lay upon them.

Kevin is an idiot for even airing the dirty laundry of Carmen's health. Nothing needed to be said. He should have kept his mouth shut. It's not anyone's business especially the publics. It's a private matter for no one to be privy to.

To an outsider it's probably kinda gross. Some people probably are being kinda gross. But again, in a project with over 5,000 backers, painting us ALL in any light based on the actions or words of a couple (or a couple dozen) when we have little or no control over the community is, as I noted above, just attempting to use this situation/controversy/tragedy to ones own end. Which is in itself inappropriate. Bluntly put, coming in on a high horse and yelling YOU PEOPLE MAKE ME SICK in one fashion or another to show off how disappointed you are is just virtue signaling by another form.

Outsider? I've been here since the beginning, but unlike the rest...saying where's wave 2 and posting about how much I loathe Kevin and his business practices can only be said and stated so many times before it gets completely vapid. This isn't me coming in on my "high horse"...it's me putting 270+ pages of the same crap into perspective. 270+ pages of the same things being said repeatedly. If this event shows anything...it should show everyone that it's time to move the F on...in whatever manner that suits people.

And none of us here are 'outsiders'. We should know most of this history by now, so take your outrage and direct it towards where it belongs.

I'm not outraged at anyone. That's your opinion. I'll return to lurking now as posting in this thread is largely pointless now. Good day sir.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:
Well this where I part company with a lot of you - I'd like to see PB not only survive but also thrive, for the sake of the people who like Rifts, etc. ... and of course because I'd love to see more RRT stuff. But PB will never thrive as long as Kevin can profit from abusive business practices. So I see the right thing for backers to do is pass on the truth of how poorly managed RRT has been and that Kevin has shown no real progress on turning that around. As long as that is the case, people should be put on notice to steer clear of PB. But I am ready to give credit where it's due should we see some real progress.

Agreed.

so tell me how can people move on when we have unfinished business? seriously? how? people gave Palladium Books money on a promise, a promise that has been broken, then those same people told Carmen they would never back any Palladium Books Property and warn people away from any Palladium Books property, those same people said the same thing about the Savage Worlds Kickstarter, heck some even said worse to Peg on their forums, and lets see did any of them try to commit suicide? ummmm no. were the backers even remotely responsible for Carmen's attempt? highly doubtful, now my theory is that Carmen had a fragile mentality and you couple that with all his money being sunk into the Rift's boardgame and then him realizing his game was already dead, not because of anything he did, but because of his good buddy Kevin, I told him he should have made his own IP/Property and cut far far far away from Kevin, but he made his bed and now he has to sleep in it.

what it comes down to is the only one who can be blamed is Kevin, and how do you think Carmen will react after seeing Kevin's update?

**Forar**

Asterios wrote:
Manchu wrote:
Well 75USD shipped for the core set is the price to beat.

EDIT: scratch that, it's actually 66USD shipped

I picked up 2 Box games for $20 Total.

*sigh* This has come up a few times now.

Okay, fine, I'll bite.

Why?

You made a big deal of selling off your figures, proclaiming yourself 'done with this game'.

People could offer boxes for free and I still wouldn't want them. Unless you're planning to spend time building/painting them for further sales (which would be weird for someone so often proclaiming the game 'dead' and the product without value), or regret selling off the originals, more of something I don't want is just wasted space.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Karuthors, it would help if you didn't 'fisk' a post into a dozen little pieces, especially when it leads to you asking questions about one part that are answered in the next.

I have trimmed sections that we generally agree upon, such as Kevin's 'update' being a terrible idea.

CaptKaruthors wrote:

Yes. I read the entire damn thing. I've read everything on PB forums. What's your point?

I'm saying people handled it poorly. Ask yourself this: what was there to be gained by any of it? Like seriously...even if you feel
the level of angst wasn't dialed to an 11...maybe an 8...it still doesn't change the fact that people were scalping the wrong guy.

That wasn't your initial quote. You said "Now, that being said...the level of rage lobbed in his direction was really childish and petty"

I'm contending that nobody was 'lobbing rage' at him. You are overstating the exchange. People said some unkind things, but that was hardly 'rage'. And people were clear about why they felt the way they did, on the PB Forums (when Jefffar and NMI weren't busy deleting posts, even politely worded ones), here, and yes on Kickstarter. Bluntly, ONE BACKER was rather blunt and abrupt with him, and a couple others (again, I might be included in this category) were dismissive and further blunt with him on the matter, to varying levels of constructiveness. Your statements (like those of Kevin) have an air of broadly generalizing the engagement, which happened over a few hours between Carmen and somewhere around a dozen people. Literally ~99.7% or so of the backers had nothing to do with this gakshow.

Outsider? I've been here since the beginning, but unlike the rest...saying where's wave 2 and posting about how much I loathe Kevin and his business practices can only be said and stated so many times before it gets completely vapid. This isn't me coming in on my "high horse"...it's me putting 270+ pages of the same crap into perspective. 270+ pages of the same things being said repeatedly. If this event shows anything...it should show everyone that it's time to move the F on...in whatever manner that suits people.

You see this next part here;

And none of us here are 'outsiders'. We should know most of this history by now, so take your outrage and direct it towards where it belongs.

This is what I was talking about at the start. You're here, I said the people who are here aren't outsiders and thus know better, thus, you're not an outsider.

I'm not outraged at anyone. That's your opinion. I'll return to lurking now as posting in this thread is largely pointless now. Good day sir.

Please enjoy your ball as you take it and go home.

**Talizvar**

Yeah, I assume I will not see many people wanting to play this game.
I look at getting it to a point where it is a "complete" game.

I usually do not like to depend on a player to provide the other half of a game unless they really want to.

I agree at some point it may appear more work than it is worth to the individual. Or the person is so upset about the entire project it is sullied beyond use.

It just seems like a waste to sell off stuff then buy back later... or is it just simple economics of sell high, buy low?

**ced1106**

Joyboozer wrote:
Was it actually NMI? Or is it just an insult to call people that now?

I'm gonna go with insult. I can't imagine NMI or anyone who works with Kevin... *looks up antonyms for insular*

Aha! Hit reply to find a direct link to a 4chan thread. Bwuh? Anyway: http://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/51798553/palladium-games-can-kill

**Asterios**

Forar wrote:
Asterios wrote:
Manchu wrote:
Well 75USD shipped for the core set is the price to beat.

EDIT: scratch that, it's actually 66USD shipped

I picked up 2 Box games for $20 Total.

*sigh* This has come up a few times now.

Okay, fine, I'll bite.

Why?

You made a big deal of selling off your figures, proclaiming yourself 'done with this game'.

People could offer boxes for free and I still wouldn't want them. Unless you're planning to spend time building/painting them for further sales (which would be weird for someone so often proclaiming the game 'dead' and the product without value), or regret selling off the originals, more of something I don't want is just wasted space.

well kept hearing about people who said they have the game collecting dust in their closet and now I can say that too

**deleted20250424**

Ahhh 4chan... at least it's /tg and not /b ?

That's something right?

**Talizvar**

ced1106 wrote:
Joyboozer wrote:
Was it actually NMI? Or is it just an insult to call people that now?

I'm gonna go with insult. I can't imagine NMI or anyone who works with Kevin... *looks up antonyms for insular*
Aha! Hit reply to find a direct link to a 4chan thread. Bwuh? Anyway: http://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/51798553/palladium-games-can-kill

Read through about half of that link.
A few pretty good observations in there.
Many comments were crude and some referencing NMI were painful... but a good cross-section of viewpoints with very little... filter.
Yeah, finished while writing this... last quarter pretty much degrades down to useless nastiness.

I am REALLY looking forward to working on some Robotech stuff that has little to do with Palladium... best of both worlds.

**Asterios**

Talizvar wrote:
ced1106 wrote:
Joyboozer wrote:
Was it actually NMI? Or is it just an insult to call people that now?

I'm gonna go with insult. I can't imagine NMI or anyone who works with Kevin... *looks up antonyms for insular*
Aha! Hit reply to find a direct link to a 4chan thread. Bwuh? Anyway: http://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/51798553/palladium-games-can-kill
Read through about half of that link.
A few pretty good observations in there.
Many comments were crude and some referencing NMI were painful... but a good cross-section of viewpoints with very little... filter.
Yeah, finished while writing this... last quarter pretty much degrades down to useless nastiness.

I am REALLY looking forward to working on some Robotech stuff that has little to do with Palladium... best of both worlds.

I didn't even get that far reading thru those posts, hell I thought the kickstarter forums could get bad :p

**BobtheInquisitor**

I'd love to get 2 boxes for $20, just for the bits. In fact, anyone selling RRT bits?

Joyboozer wrote:
Off topic I know, but has anyone heard from johnHwangDD? He just vanished?

I'll see if he goes to the Brookhurst Hobbies Bring 'n' Buy next weekend and let you know.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Robotics bits are really useful.

**evancich**

Asterios wrote:
Manchu wrote:
Well 75USD shipped for the core set is the price to beat.

EDIT: scratch that, it's actually 66USD shipped

I picked up 2 Box games for $20 Total.

I'm in on the KS for $255 (I think). If I got $100 on ebay for the starter box and my wave 1 stuff, I'd be happy. Currently sitting at $66. I was hoping to beat the wave of people dumping their stuff based on the craziness of the KS updates.

**ScarletRose**

I feel kind of bad now, I dumped my pledge almost as soon as I got it (still didn't make back all my money though). But I promised the guy I sold it to I'd send him the Wave 2 stuff when I got it.

Whoops.

**Rainyday**

Talizvar wrote:

Many comments were crude and some referencing NMI were painful... but a good cross-section of viewpoints with very little... filter.
Yeah, finished while writing this... last quarter pretty much degrades down to useless nastiness.

That's 4chan for you, the original Donkeycave of the Internet. Sounds like a pretty civil discussion for there.

**Genoside07**

I have a long history with quality control, there is a process used for corrective actions called "5Ys" five whys.
You list your problem then ask why and continue to do that for at least five times.
If you do this with the whole RTT problem, it always lands in Kevin's lap, but his tombstone will read " Robotech tactics demise was not my fault "

**Desmodus**

TalonZahn wrote:
Ahhh 4chan... at least it's /tg and not /b ?

That's something right?

Why, what's /b?

**Manchu**

Desmodus wrote:
Why, what's /b?

/b/ is the random board of 4chan

/tg/ stands for tabletop gaming and it has pretty good content if you pick through the garbage

**Asterios**

evancich wrote:
Asterios wrote:
Manchu wrote:
Well 75USD shipped for the core set is the price to beat.

EDIT: scratch that, it's actually 66USD shipped

I picked up 2 Box games for $20 Total.

I'm in on the KS for $255 (I think). If I got $100 on ebay for the starter box and my wave 1 stuff, I'd be happy. Currently sitting at $66. I was hoping to beat the wave of people dumping their stuff based on the craziness of the KS updates.

I ended up making a pretty penny for my stuff, but then it was assembled and painted which is a big selling point when it comes to RRT, well the assembled part that is, even had someone want to pay me to assemble and paint their stuff, like my stuff he got from me.

**Joyboozer**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I'd love to get 2 boxes for $20, just for the bits. In fact, anyone selling RRT bits?

Joyboozer wrote:
Off topic I know, but has anyone heard from johnHwangDD? He just vanished?

I'll see if he goes to the Brookhurst Hobbies Bring 'n' Buy next weekend and let you know.

Thanks. Not that I'm trying to get in touch, it's just weird when regular posters just vanish.

**Alpharius**

Asterios wrote:
evancich wrote:
Asterios wrote:
Manchu wrote:
Well 75USD shipped for the core set is the price to beat.

EDIT: scratch that, it's actually 66USD shipped

I picked up 2 Box games for $20 Total.

I'm in on the KS for $255 (I think). If I got $100 on ebay for the starter box and my wave 1 stuff, I'd be happy. Currently sitting at $66. I was hoping to beat the wave of people dumping their stuff based on the craziness of the KS updates.

I ended up making a pretty penny for my stuff, but then it was assembled and painted which is a big selling point when it comes to RRT, well the assembled part that is, even had someone want to pay me to assemble and paint their stuff, like my stuff he got from me.

It doesn't matter how many times you post this, I can't believe it - ever!

**ced1106**

I found the link to the Palladium forum for the RIFTS boardgame. I think Carmen said he requested that the forum not be moderated, so there *are* negative comments that foreshadowed those after he posted on KS. I also think had Carmen not be defensive-slash-offensive on the KS comments and behaved more like he did on the Palladium forums (or just not posted there at all), he would have had a chance. Given that Prodos' LOAD made $200K despite BGG and Dakka postings, RIFTS boardgame could have pulled in money from Palladium and RIFT supporters, either on KS or through retail, who, if they haven't stopped supporting Palladium (there's even one on that 4chan thread) now, probably won't stop supporting them with anything else RRT backers had to say. He describes the boardgame as being similar to Descent and Imperial Assault (mistakenly calling it "Dudes on a Map"), so the boardgame could be sold as an RPG supplement with miniatures and a 28mm grid. Given his lack of business credentials and his association with Palladium, I think had he started small, say, a pre-order through the Palladium website for a hundred copies with metal miniatures and tokens, he might have had a place to start. Heck, assuming he recovers, he still has it.

Aside from that wishful speculation, Prysus has some general advice (imo, his specific suggestion of a Facebook page later in his posting isn't enough) for the KS route. I think his expectations that he could publish a RIFTS boardgame that way are impossible without credentials he does not yet have, although I've been proven wrong. Who else backed Groovus' project?

With that out of the way, I will address the actual reason I'm posting here. I'm going to be a bit more critical, and I'll bring up both RTT and Savage Rifts (but these will only be used to address your company and comparisons). As we can see, many people won't support this Kickstarter. RTT has left a bad test in many people's mouths. With that said, many people still participated in the Savage Rifts Kickstarter and, if I recall correctly, it did better than any other Savage Worlds Kickstarter before to the point they had to keep making changes to how they did things to accommodate. But RTT will continue to be an obstacle, and you'll need to work around it. So how do you do that?

You need to establish yourself as an independent company. I know, you've said here how you have a small company, and how Palladium's advertisement is free, and how you wanted to talk to Rifts fans before setting up a Facebook page. I get it, but in my opinion this is a bad move (at least in part). Why? Right now there's a rumor going around that you're nothing but a shell company for Palladium, a way for them to keep officially hands off while this really all still them. I know you're going to say that's not true, but you're not trying to convince me and words don't always mean much. You want proof, and right now you don't seem to have any. Kevin is doing your advertising, your discussing it only on their forums (from what I can tell), and people who search for your company find NOTHING. You're a friend of Palladium and everything we know about your company has basically come from Palladium. Until you can give yourself some distance, you will be effectively viewed AS PALLADIUM.

Let's look at Savage Rifts. Savage Worlds was an established company with a good track record. That helped people to look passed the RTT issues. You don't have that luxury. Sean Patrick Fannon (did I spell and get that name right?) posted on these forums a few times during the collaboration, but in the end he directed people to the Savage Worlds forums for more discussion. That allowed them to direct people to them for questions and answers, and as such helped create further separation.

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=104&t=152621&sid=d153616e1b28ffd3425ed4f0cead8c2c

**Forar**

ced1106 wrote:
I found the link to the Palladium forum for the RIFTS boardgame. I think Carmen said he requested that the forum not be moderated, so there *are* negative comments that foreshadowed those after he posted on KS. I also think had Carmen not be defensive-slash-offensive on the KS comments and behaved more like he did on the Palladium forums (or just not posted there at all), he would have had a chance. Given that Prodos' LOAD made $200K despite BGG and Dakka postings, RIFTS boardgame could have pulled in money from Palladium and RIFT supporters, either on KS or through retail, who, if they haven't stopped supporting Palladium (there's even one on that 4chan thread) now, probably won't stop supporting them with anything else RRT backers had to say. He describes the boardgame as being similar to Descent and Imperial Assault (mistakenly calling it "Dudes on a Map"), so the boardgame could be sold as an RPG supplement with miniatures and a 28mm grid. Given his lack of business credentials and his association with Palladium, I think had he started small, say, a pre-order through the Palladium website for a hundred copies with metal miniatures and tokens, he might have had a place to start. Heck, assuming he recovers, he still has it.

Aside from that wishful speculation, Prysus has some general advice (imo, his specific suggestion of a Facebook page later in his posting isn't enough) for the KS route. I think publishing a retail-level RIFTS boardgame is next to impossible, but nobody owes you your dream.

You might miss it if context/posts aren't present to point it out, but while Carmen requested the subforum not be moderated, that request came after people started noticing posts being deleted without warning or explanation.

Not even offensive posts mind you, but one that essentially came down to "best of luck with the Kickstarter, but I can't in good conscience back anything even tangentially related to Palladium Books".

If you look at the 'votes' in the poll, you can see a substantial number of people who express disinterest, and none of the commentary even reached the (fairly tame) level found on the KS comments.