Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2017/02/21 23:05:02
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
/tg/ stands for tabletop gaming and it has pretty good content if you pick through the garbage
This. Sometimes tg comes up with some brilliant out of the box ideas for players or campaigns. Most times though it seems to be a feth you contest. And of course this is where the palladium defenders have gone to stir gak up.
And maybe avoid /b. The random seems to mean random kinds of porn, although there is other stuff.
There's also 7chan.org/tg and 8ch.net/tg. But discussing other forums can get you banned. Mind you sometimes you can get banned without any idea why.
2017/02/21 23:38:02
Subject: Re:Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Genoside07 wrote: I have a long history with quality control, there is a process used for corrective actions called "5Ys" five whys.
You list your problem then ask why and continue to do that for at least five times.
Ha! Brother! I believe "5 Whys" keeps going until the answer is "Because we are stupid." then go back one (no word of a lie that is how we used it).
If only PB could delve that honestly.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
2017/02/22 01:28:52
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Given that Kevin shared the news of Carmen's failed suicide attempt on as an official Kickstarter Update to ALL of the RRT backers, I think that is the most appropriate place for any condolences to be posted.
Forar wrote: All this plus Mr. Dachi showing up in the comments, we've practically got the band back together at this point.
"We're on a mission from God."
I read this thread everyday Forar. It's just that I feel like I just don't have anything to say anymore. Hell, I see boxes of RRT on shelves at home and at work that don't get played/don't get sold everyday. I still want/hope to get my Wave 2 items so I still keep up.
However, I thought I had seen all the surprises this had in it. If I hadn't read the update where Kevin informed us of Carmen's status myself, I would not have believed it. It's an extinction level event sized asteroid of delicious, buttery popcorn.
"They reckon you've got concussion - I couldn't give a tart's furry cup if half your brains are falling out. Don't ever waltz into my kingdom acting king of the jungle." - Gene Hunt
2017/02/22 06:48:21
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
So last I read someone had reported the RRTKS to the Kickstarter Integrity team, got a form email saying they're checking it out, etc.
Apparently the integrity team at least read the comments because I'm the recipient of a 7 day ban on commenting/messaging. I'm guessing it's for suggesting one of the fan friends prefers a particular sex act with Kevin.
But hey, it's proof someone official is at least reading this stuff. Hopefully this has become just the sort of disaster to spur people to step in.
I prefer to buy from miniature manufacturers that *don't* support the overthrow of democracy.
2017/02/22 07:40:39
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
ScarletRose wrote: So last I read someone had reported the RRTKS to the Kickstarter Integrity team, got a form email saying they're checking it out, etc.
Apparently the integrity team at least read the comments because I'm the recipient of a 7 day ban on commenting/messaging. I'm guessing it's for suggesting one of the fan friends prefers a particular sex act with Kevin.
But hey, it's proof someone official is at least reading this stuff. Hopefully this has become just the sort of disaster to spur people to step in.
Maybe KS should use that integrity team to force Kevin to produce wave 2 as well instead of just banning consumers.
My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/
2017/02/22 08:11:42
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
The integrity team would be powerless against him, he is completely devoid of integrity, where his integrity should be there's nothing but a black hole that consumes and destroys the integrity of all those around him.
There’s a difference between having a hobby and being a narcissist.
2017/02/22 08:52:01
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Joyboozer wrote: The integrity team would be powerless against him, he is completely devoid of integrity, where his integrity should be there's nothing but a black hole that consumes and destroys the integrity of all those around him.
So... Kevin is integrity's antiparticle?
2017/02/22 09:25:40
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
I typed this out over at the gamers on games youtube comments section:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWBkpMvMtm0&feature=youtu.be Then thought it would be better here in this forum.
I copy and pasted most of the comments of the page, while the exchange was occurring, before Kickstarter removed them.
I think its fine if certain backers are perma-banned, based on their comments, but if turnabout is fair play, Palladium Books & Rogue Heroes certainly shouldn't be allowed to put together any further Kickstarters. Backers and Companies alike gave overly heated exchanges.
The comments in regards to trolling Carmen's future project is something (from Kickstarters perspective) I could understand as a big no-no. I think it's a dick move to say your going to troll that (future) project, but when this whole situation has been exceedingly cock-blocked because of "reasons" (& let's not forget *boiling*) or other wise total ineptitude on the part of the publisher/creators (and with no if any end in sight), I certainly understand the frustration.
Other comments were far less reasoned and certainly out of line. But most of those came after Rogue Heroes (had supposedly) signed out. I didn't copy and paste those and there weren't a lot, but they were certainly there.
While the some of the tone and content of the comments are negative I think it is important to put them into perspective. And not to mention a lot of the comments simply equated to "No, I'm not backing the Rifts Board Game," and many added, but "I wish you luck." People (not anyone here though) keep forgetting that a future kickstarter project is being announced/plugged in the comments section of one that hasn't yet fulfilled...
Though it pains me to say it. Kevin is right. Words can Hurt. However, like many who are putting in their own two cents on this topic, that statement by itself lacks context. In fact its down right fuckin' insulting...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
"I've written for Palladium as a freelancer. It took me 6 weeks of pestering then to get my measly $400 check."
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/02/22 09:55:43
2017/02/22 14:35:35
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
I just went and saved a copy of the full exchange, in case Kickstarter decides to delete a few comments, which would unfortunately feed the narrative of 'omg the comments were *so bad* and those backers are truly monsters'.
Kind of hard for us to point at the actual exchange and say 'read it for yourself' if some of it is missing.
Right now that's not an issue, but I suspect this will be the kind of thing brought up again and again in the years to come, and the further out we are from it, the less likely people will remember or know the full details.
2017/02/22 16:03:24
Subject: Re:Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
I started looking in to what some of the blame points are and I think Carmen was brave to allow a unfiltered unmoderated forum.
But most of the people there were actually nice and pointed out the anger of what he may see before and after the kickstarter started..
The comment of people threatening to boycott by trolling his kickstarter rifts comments I think started with this comment..
I wouldn't be surprised if some RTT backers back your board game at $1 just to lob poison comments at PB. That is the reality of what you are looking at.
To me this is not threatening.. that is informing just some of the difficulties he may face. As most people posted trying to direct him with better feedback on the now locked
Rifts board games of Palladium games forums.
But I am also sure Kevin would not listen to anything thing that Carmen was getting warned about which added to his stress.
So this week's copy paste palladium update will say what about RTT??
2017/02/22 16:08:43
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
As it goes I was probably one of the worst posters in the conversation with Carmen, did I wish him ill will? no, I just told him the facts that his game was doomed to failure, in part due to the backers of RRT, but other factors would have played a role in it too, even if his project funded he would have ran into cost over runs from factors he did not factor in since some did not even exist when he did his planning (Like NAFTA and TPP getting kicked to the curb).
I did tell him his best bet would have been too create his own IP and not go with RIFTs or any PB IP, but he made his choices and me thinks he realized his choices were wrong and his investment was lost.
as it goes though there was more ire on the PB forums (and still is) then what was posted in the conversation on the RRT forums.
now what was posted on Kevins update in the RRT forums were some rude and disturbing comments from both sides of the aisle.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2017/02/22 16:37:36
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Asterios wrote: As it goes I was probably one of the worst posters in the conversation with Carmen, did I wish him ill will? no, I just told him the facts that his game was doomed to failure, in part due to the backers of RRT, but other factors would have played a role in it too, even if his project funded he would have ran into cost over runs from factors he did not factor in since some did not even exist when he did his planning (Like NAFTA and TPP getting kicked to the curb).
Well, to say you knew some things that would doom his project to fail but would not tell him, can be at least wishing him to feel concern.
I think few would have the inside track on what he had considered when going forward with the project, so it is strange to claim knowledge on what can only be conjecture.
I think he was given good advice in the PB forums that the sooner he presents a company well removed from Palladium, the better.
Kevin taking the liberty to be so free with private information seems to indicate he sees no separation either, or at least feel his backing is a "good thing" (the silly man).
The project just seems so irrecoverably ruined by Palladium involvement, if it could have been presented similarly as the Savage Worlds: Rifts KS we may not have been having this discussion.
Oh well, we shall see going forward.
If Kevin thinks his efforts at distraction and using tragedy as a shield had gone unnoticed.... never mind, he was called out plenty on it.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
2017/02/22 16:55:20
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Asterios wrote: As it goes I was probably one of the worst posters in the conversation with Carmen, did I wish him ill will? no, I just told him the facts that his game was doomed to failure, in part due to the backers of RRT, but other factors would have played a role in it too, even if his project funded he would have ran into cost over runs from factors he did not factor in since some did not even exist when he did his planning (Like NAFTA and TPP getting kicked to the curb).
Well, to say you knew some things that would doom his project to fail but would not tell him, can be at least wishing him to feel concern.
I think few would have the inside track on what he had considered when going forward with the project, so it is strange to claim knowledge on what can only be conjecture.
I think he was given good advice in the PB forums that the sooner he presents a company well removed from Palladium, the better.
Kevin taking the liberty to be so free with private information seems to indicate he sees no separation either, or at least feel his backing is a "good thing" (the silly man).
The project just seems so irrecoverably ruined by Palladium involvement, if it could have been presented similarly as the Savage Worlds: Rifts KS we may not have been having this discussion.
Oh well, we shall see going forward.
If Kevin thinks his efforts at distraction and using tragedy as a shield had gone unnoticed.... never mind, he was called out plenty on it.
well that one bit was in response to Carmen's comments(but in all seriousness he did not take many factors into consideration), as it goes he should have done his own IP for his companies foundation, not a PB IP and I even said so.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2017/02/22 17:00:01
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Asterios wrote: As it goes I was probably one of the worst posters in the conversation with Carmen, did I wish him ill will? no, I just told him the facts that his game was doomed to failure, in part due to the backers of RRT, but other factors would have played a role in it too, even if his project funded he would have ran into cost over runs from factors he did not factor in since some did not even exist when he did his planning (Like NAFTA and TPP getting kicked to the curb).
Well, to say you knew some things that would doom his project to fail but would not tell him, can be at least wishing him to feel concern.
Far be it from me to defend Rick, but that sounds remarkably similar to Rick suggesting that his project would "burn" were Rick to not share that info.
Difference being, Rick presumably isn't about to ask the world at large for money...nor was he saying it to an audience that he and his associates owed product...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/22 17:04:07
2017/02/22 17:11:52
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Asterios wrote: As it goes I was probably one of the worst posters in the conversation with Carmen, did I wish him ill will? no, I just told him the facts that his game was doomed to failure, in part due to the backers of RRT, but other factors would have played a role in it too, even if his project funded he would have ran into cost over runs from factors he did not factor in since some did not even exist when he did his planning (Like NAFTA and TPP getting kicked to the curb).
Well, to say you knew some things that would doom his project to fail but would not tell him, can be at least wishing him to feel concern.
Far be it from me to defend Rick, but that sounds remarkably similar to Rick suggesting that his project would "burn" were Rick to not share that info.
Difference being, Rick presumably isn't about to ask the world at large for money...nor was he saying it to an audience that he and his associates owed product...
and to be honest i don't even think Carmen paid me or my comments any attention either
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/22 17:12:10
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
2017/02/22 18:44:18
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Taking a closer look at Kevin's update on Kickstarter from this weekend: (Enclosed in spoiler tags to hide the wall of text)
Spoiler:
Carmen’s awkward words might have seemed out of context and harsh. They were fueled by comments and accusations people had been directing at him here and elsewhere for a while now. Somehow, he thought he was helping by coming here to speak to people directly.
I don’t know why Carmen Bellaire said what he said, in the way that he did. I know he has been pushing himself much too hard, and was emotionally drained and physically exhausted when he made those posts. That might explain some of it. He can also be the proverbial bull in the china shop, and has a bad habit of not choosing his words carefully. A lot of his comments and observations about Robotech® RPG Tactics and Palladium Books were from an outsider’s perspective, and often incorrect or not clearly presented. Carmen’s viewpoint, like many of yours, is that of a concerned outsider looking in.
So Carmen who's credited in the RRT rulebook, has run RRT demos, is a backer and has close ties to Kevin Siembieda is an outsider? Can someone explain how to reach that conclusion based on these facts?
He had not been around Palladium Books much the past 3-4 years, because he was busy creating games for his own fledgling company, Rogue Heroes LLC, which he has hopes to launch in spectacular fashion with the Rifts® Board Game as his first release. This would be done via a Kickstarter campaign in April, 2017. In addition to this endeavor, Carmen works a full-time, 9-5 job, as well as doing freelance game design for Upper Deck. A lot of work for Upper Deck. It is my understanding that the many games he has designed for that company have yet to see release, but they have been keeping him busy and several are in the pipeline for release. Doing board games right takes time. I’ve learned that the hard way. Carmen is also doing work for at least two other game companies under a veil of secrecy. He cannot speak about them or identify the companies due to NDAs and the wishes of those companies. I’m not even sure if I’m supposed to mention Upper Deck. I have been doing so rather shamelessly, because I’m very proud of my friend Carmen, and I figured the folks at Upper Deck will be okay with it coming from me
So in addition to announcing to the world Carmen's suicide attempt, you may have just violated an NDA by revealing one of his employers. Great job Kevin.
Carmen and I have not talked about him “fixing” Wave Two, as he put it. We at Palladium, and many others, believe the RRT rules are solid. That while they could use some clarification, expansion and tweaking, they are really quite excellent and damn fun to play. What Carmen and I have talked about is Carmen’s hope and dream that if the Rifts® Board Game Kickstarter is a big success, he can quit his 9-5 job and dedicate himself exclusively to creating games. It is a lifelong dream I have heard about since the first day I met Carmen 12, 15 years ago. A dream he saw finally becoming a reality. A dream he has put his heart and soul into making come true. So no, Rogue Heroes, LLC is not a front or shell company for Palladium Books, as some have suggested; it is 100% Carmen Bellaire.
His terrible opening post and further discussion about Robotech® RPG Tactics™ and Wave Two on the RRT Kickstarter board was fueled by his passion and hopes. If the Rifts® board game was a big success, and he really could quit his 9-5 job, he planned to help Palladium get RRT back on track, doing whatever he could to help. Carmen has all kinds of ideas for advanced RRT rules, new factions and new waves of product that we would love to see happen. But for the moment, he was still buried with other work commitments and needed to stay focused on the Rifts® board game and its Kickstarter.
What does the state of the RRT rules have to do with Wave 2? Advanced rules, new factions and new waves of product are separate items that have no bearing on Wave 2.
Carmen didn’t intend to challenge, threaten or blackmail anyone for support of his impending Rifts® board game Kickstarter. He was, in his own lame and awkward way, trying to say that his success with it would be good for the future of RRT, because he could be more involved and hopefully help make things happen faster in the future. He was trying to say, please don’t undermine his Rifts® Board Game Kickstarter, because his success would actually help RRT in the long run.
I know this is what he meant, because he called me Friday, early afternoon, very upset by the reaction of some people on the RRT boards. He apologized to me over and over again for upsetting people and fueling the vitriol when all he was trying to do was help. Help me. Help his upcoming Kickstarter. Help the fans. Help his family. Help everyone. And doing it by creating a fun Rifts® board game to be followed by many other games from his company, not just based on Palladium’s I.P., but many of his own brilliant ideas.
This is not what Carmen said in his comments at all. It was more 'if you don't mess with my kickstarter, I'll fix RRT. If you do, I'm not going to help fix it.' An empty threat given that most of the vocal commentors consider the problems intractable and consider the game dead already. The anger and toxicity has been there for awhile, Carmen didn't do anything except bring it back into the light. Carmen didn't create it. Kevin Siembieda's constant inept handling of the kickstarter is what fuels the anger
I understand why people are upset about RRT. What I cannot understand is the absolute hate and bloodlust of some, to destroy us, when we are trying to deliver the game they backed. Even more puzzling is attacking and destroying anyone who is affiliated with Palladium even in the slightest way, and shouting down and condemning others who don’t agree with their point of view.
Why don't you go ask your fan-friends/white knights why they attack, shout down and condemn anyone who tries to provide any criticism of Palladium products, constructive or otherwise?
Twisting the truth and twisting his, admittedly poorly chosen words, cut him to pieces. Carmen was never an employee of Palladium. He was a freelancer who worked off site, like all of our freelancers. He submitted the occasional book or contribution to a product like RRT. Carmen has never deliberately held back from making RRT great. Carmen was not trying to blackmail you to support his game. All he wanted to do was help, and he saw the Rift® board game as his way to start doing that. He wanted you to understand this. That your support for his Kickstarter – or at least not trying to undermine it – would enable him to help you and RRT, because he would finally have the time to devote to it, if he could quit his day job. He even shared his dream of being able to do a lot more work on RRT, Wave Two and future RRT releases, among other things. Carmen had a lot of big dreams and good intentions.
Where were we again? The gist of this part sounds familiar, like I read it before. Oh yeah, let's focus on the twisting the truth and words. How's Carmen going to like that when he sees his so-called friend taking this tragedy and twisting it to his own benefit?
Please realize that your words and tone may hurt another person as much as a bullet to the heart. Please, try to stop and think about what you say. Remember that human beings are fragile creatures. Try to find compassion and support for others, not tear them down. Try not to assume the worst or cast your assumptions and accusations against someone who does not deserve them. Not everyone is a bad guy. Not everyone is an enemy to be hated, attacked and ridiculed. Words matter. Lives matter. Kindness and tolerance matter. Perhaps more than ever before.
So instead of just providing a private update informing backers of what happened, you decide to make a public update where you proceed to lay blame for this at the feet of the roughly 5000 backers and rally your followers against them. Nice to see that you've also taken time to think about what to say and decided to add more fuel to the fire.
2017/02/22 21:25:42
Subject: Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Asterios wrote: ...as it goes he should have done his own IP for his companies foundation, not a PB IP and I even said so.
100% agreement but not a thing anyone can do about it now or a few months ago.
I got sick on my own high horse crap I just wrote and deleted it.
I have seen people like Kevin S. in my life and seen the damage they do.
Do what you can to show him for the unethical person he is and protect those who do not know any better.
Thanks
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
2017/02/22 22:10:31
Subject: Re:Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
I went to look at the RTT comments again.. and NMI (Palladium forum administrator) posted
"Apple Pie.. sweet apple pie"... Not sure what he was going for.. just bad taste in my book..
Okay.. I would say he had met and knew Carmen.. .. So Kevin S. condemns 5000 backers for
causing the apparent suicide and you feel it was the best idea to go post a trivial remark just to see
if you could get so called attacked also?? Great to see he uses his time wisely..
Wonder what it will be like when Gen Con rolls around... I am sure Kevin will be hidden from the public
and just come out for special rifts events..No reason to start caring what your customers think of your
business..
2017/02/22 22:24:15
Subject: Re:Robotech RPG Tactics - "Restarting" the Kickstarter Discussion
Genoside07 wrote: I went to look at the RTT comments again.. and NMI (Palladium forum administrator) posted
"Apple Pie.. sweet apple pie"... Not sure what he was going for.. just bad taste in my book..
oh I see it, he is an odd duck.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/22 22:25:31
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
-- $k 
-- 9k 
-- 6k 
-- 4k 
-- 
