Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

For anyone that cares.....

The Unofficial Facebook group run by Mike and Peter will likely be switching to Robotech miniature gaming in general and not just tactics once this month ends.

The name may stay essentially the same but it will look to discuss different games in which the minis can be used etc. Hopefully so any who wish too can still at least get some enjoyment from their stuff going forward.

I know I already moved on quite a while ago from RRT itself by looking to do everything in Alpha Strike in this regard (looking at other options like Mekton Zeta, Team Yankee, SilCore etc all of which can use the same scale as well) but just posting here so people can still support Robotech "gaming" if they wish too.

Here is my Alpha Strike stuff for all of wave one as a sample.

http://worldofjaymz.wikia.com/wiki/Robotech_Alpha_Strike

Also for anyone worried about the free stuff on DriveThruRPG.net that Palladium had put up for RRT, don't.

It is and will continue to be archived on the Robotech wiki along with all the stuff Mike had done and links for resources like printable buildings etc.

http://robotech-rpg-tactics.wikia.com/wiki/Robotech_RPG_Tactics_Wiki

From the Facebook Robotech group, repost of lawsuit group (with HG's Tommy Yune?)

So I finally heard back from HG with an official response and I wanted to share this with everyone. It's just clarification and a few things that may be new to some to keep an eye on in the future.

--------------

> Recently (according to Palladum Books) Harmony Gold USA informed
> Palladum Books that their license for Robotech RPG and Table Top Games
> would not be renewed.
>
>
> 1. Is this accurate information?

Yes, Harmony Gold hasn't renewed Palladium's license.

> 2. If so is this directly related to how poorly they handled the
> Robotech RPG Tactics game and the bad publicity it generated?

Yes. You might've read Palladium's recent post explaining why they couldn't fulfill Wave 2 of the Kickstarter. On top of what they mentioned, Harmony Gold gave them a free extension on their license to let them find a solution. We also introduced potential business partners to Palladium hoping someone would be able to help them out, but after several years it became apparent it wasn't going to happen. We decided it would be best to end the license for the sake of our fans and backers instead of dragging it out.

> 3. Will Harmony Gold USA be finding a new developer and publisher for
> any further games.

We've got a couple new gaming licenses already (Solar Flare and Strange Machine) and we're talking to a few more that we can't announce yet but hopefully soon.

> I am a backer of the failed project and though I am disheartened by
> Palladum Books quite a bit, I still love Robotech as I grew up with it.
> I was also a backer of Robotech Academy which unfortunately did not meet
> it's funding goal and I strongly suspect this is in part due to the
> delays Palladum Books was already experiencing with Robotech RPG Tactics.

This was a huge disappointment for us too. Palladium has a long history with Harmony Gold and Robotech, but like you said the Kickstarter problems may have hurt Robotech Academy's Kickstarter and the fandom in general, so we have to do what's right and find new licenses that can serve our fans better.

> I hope you are able to provide some information especially on the
> direction things will be taking in the future.

Keep an eye out for announcements, on top of Strange Machines and Solar Flare we're working on some more gaming licenses that we'll hopefully be able to talk about by summer. Thanks for continuing to be a fan, it really means a lot to us and we wanna do right by you guys.

PB's last license would have been up for renewal in 2016, if HG extended their license to cover 2017 then they had well over a year to inform backers that the license was expiring and to prepare for exchanging wave two items. In classic Palladium bumbles everything fashion they waited until the very last moth before announcing things were at an end and then were surprised by the firestorm and giant mess of dealing with 5,000+ emails? Sorry but I have no sympathy for the rut they dug themselves into and continued to deepen at every opportunity.

 stanman wrote:
PB's last license would have been up for renewal in 2016, if HG extended their license to cover 2017 then they had well over a year to inform backers that the license was expiring and to prepare for exchanging wave two items. In classic Palladium bumbles everything fashion they waited until the very last moth before announcing things were at an end and then were surprised by the firestorm and giant mess of dealing with 5,000+ emails? Sorry but I have no sympathy for the rut they dug themselves into and continued to deepen at every opportunity.

Note, it's 5000+ emails, but no mention of how many backers. Given some backers are reported to have had 5+ emails to get stuff sorted, that could mean well under 20% takeup. We know that there's not 5000 individual takeups, given the volume of vitriol, and international backers being completely hosed by the exchange.

Oh, there's a new RRT Kickstarter Update. Basically saying the same stuff as the last half dozen, but that they're extending their own shipping time (ie, orders not processed yet still have a chance of being fulfilled next week).

There's some funny/ironic lines in there though. My favorites are...

"We have an ample supply of the Robotech® RPG Main Box Games and expansion packs." - Yeah, that's strange that they're so massively overstocked. Wonder where they got the money for that.

"All of us here at Palladium Books love Robotech® and had high hopes for the game line. We have been crestfallen by the situation with RRT. We tried so hard to keep the game alive." - Facts not in evidence. I'd like to see proof of what PB did to 'keep the game alive'. Because I think that, just like nearly anything that comes out of a PB employee's mouth, is utter bull.

FINAL DAY to purchase additional RRT/Robotech® Product at a steep discount on the Palladium Books website
If you are looking for additional Robotech® product (on sale at discount prices), this is your very LAST WEEKEND to make a purchase.

Kind of funny how they struggle to be consistent on whether today (Saturday) is the "final day" while also saying this is the "LAST WEEKEND". Their other communications have had some inconsistencies like that, I wonder if it will cost them some sales if they really pull everything tonight (with people thinking they could order tomorrow).

Alpharius Walks wrote:

FINAL DAY to purchase additional RRT/Robotech® Product at a steep discount on the Palladium Books website
If you are looking for additional Robotech® product (on sale at discount prices), this is your very LAST WEEKEND to make a purchase.

Kind of funny how they struggle to be consistent on whether today (Saturday) is the "final day" while also saying this is the "LAST WEEKEND". Their other communications have had some inconsistencies like that, I wonder if it will cost them some sales if they really pull everything tonight (with people thinking they could order tomorrow).

I'm sure they'll just backdate everything to Saturday, squeeze every cent out of their customer base, and hope that noone investigates too closely. After all, that's been their modus operandi for 5 years.

I do like that they're still pushing "Spread the word", when the only two places they appear to be advertising are the Kickstarter backers (who don't seem very receptive publicly), and the PBWU, which is a subscription based newsletter of a captive audience. No posts on their FB page in two weeks. And it's not like they're claiming limited supplies, they admit they've got a metric buttload of this crap sitting in their warehouse.

I asked this earlier, but I don't recall anyone who had an answer, so I'll throw the question out again to see if anyone knows. (If someone answered back then and I forgot, then I apologize)

Did Palladium ever fulfill the art prints? It seems they would have been something very easy that could have been printed up and shipped out.

I'd actually like a couple of the prints, so I'm wondering if they even exist in the first place.

GabrielV wrote:
I asked this earlier, but I don't recall anyone who had an answer, so I'll throw the question out again to see if anyone knows. (If someone answered back then and I forgot, then I apologize)

Did Palladium ever fulfill the art prints? It seems they would have been something very easy that could have been printed up and shipped out.

I'd actually like a couple of the prints, so I'm wondering if they even exist in the first place.

It's unclear. Like the three Bursting Point pledges, Palladium has not to my recollection mentioned if they'd been fulfilled, but noone has made a claim about NOT having had them fulfilled. And as they weren't Kickstarter Exclusive prints, you'ld figure Kevin would be trying to hawk them too.

So it's a nebulous Schrodinger's Pledge. It probably got done, but there's no apparent evidence of it happening.

With regard to the Kickstarter prints: I received both when I requested them specifically in one of the PB 'holiday surprise box' deals, along with the portfolio set that PB sells at conventions. So they were printed as advertised. However, I didn't include them in my pledge rewards, so I don't know if they were fulfilled to KS supporters.

The two were quite nice, actually, apart from having Kevin's foul scrawl on them, to remind me of his vital place in bringing the whole project to its destruction.

Well, that's interesting. My Kickstarter account is currently "under review".

I don't recall posting anything particularly interesting lately.

Merijeek wrote:
Well, that's interesting. My Kickstarter account is currently "under review".

I don't recall posting anything particularly interesting lately.

Given how slow both PB and Kickstarter are to respond to pretty much anything, this could be from something you said several months ago.

While I still do Kickstart stuff on occasion, I've definitely soured on the platform as a whole, due to the lack of protection Kickstarter are willing to provide to backers, their defense of the indefensible (RRT is the obvious one, but there are others), and their willingness to hammer people with legitimate gripes, while letting Creators do whatever they want without comment.

I'm just glad they took down the "Projects We Love" badge they put on well after the project was in obvious trouble. That was a douchey thing to put up.

I still think the "projects we love" badge was probably applied retroactively by some automatic system when they set the thing up in the first place. Just threw it at every project that hit X backers, Y funding, or some combination of the two.

Which is kind of a dumb thing to apply automatically without any real effort or consideration, but, whelp, we can just add them to Twitter and Facebook and all the other social media platforms and services that take a low effort/half assed approach to things.

"Hey guys, we should add a little badge to show off projects that are raking in ALL the money!"

"What about the ones that already did?"

"Sure, them too!"

"What about the ones that did and then became gakshows?"

"Ehhh, we'll worry about that later."

(Voiceover: they did not consider it again until an epic clusterfeth landed on their doorstep.)

I think Kevin hopes he can just ship out all the starter boxes of RTT to the backers since they were the ones already paid for it. Sad thing
is 5000 emails isn't that much for a company of any size... Most of us will get hundreds of emails in a given day at their work. But because
we want to keep our job we tend to work through them instead of saying "stop emailing me.. I already have to many to handle"...

Still want a refund from them and sent a message via kick starter but never heard anything back; that's about a month ago.. but no real surprises.

Morgan can probably do a better analysis, as it's something he excels at, but let's take a stab at this with some napkin math.

Across 5,432 backers, counting up the various tiers and adding some reasonable number who might have upgraded in the pledge manager (say, from a Battle Cry to a Showdown or whatever), I recall estimating years ago that ~7,000 cores would be needed to fulfill for backers. This is entirely based on 'counting tiers, assuming a small number failed to pay up, and then *magic*'.

Based on the numbers seen in pictures of their warehouse, it seems they got 17,500 cores, which seems pretty on-point; 7k'ish for backers, 10k'ish for retail distribution and their own personal sales (web store and conventions).

We have no way of knowing how many went out to local brick & mortar stores, or web shops like CoolStuffInc, but based on the negativity around the project, the steep sales CSI was prone to over the years, and the huge piles of pallets we see in pics and hear about, I think it's fair to say they sold way less than expected.

Assuming ~7k cores needed for backers, that'd be about 222k in value owed by their own math (with that 31.76 figure). Plus whatever else was owed due to wave 2 purchases. Now, according to Wayne himself, they only took in about 10% in the PM, so let's call that another 150k. Given PB's penchant for overstating things in their favour, I doubt it was much more than this, that's probably rounding up a bit as it is. Even if we add this value *in full* to the RRV calculations, that's about 372k owed to backers (this is of course bullgak, but everything about this project is and I'm working with a lot of imperfect numbers here, try to stay with me).

Obviously a BUNCH of that was going to be converted into higher tiers, and spending another $100+ to go from a BC to a SD and getting an extra $32 worth of stuff back is going to mess with the math a lot, but to make my point I don't care, and aiming higher works better.

EVEN IF they calculated that they owed backers 372k worth of materials, and EVEN IF backers ALL took every penny of it in core boxes, that'd still come out to around 4,600 cores.

So, we may have found why they didn't give backers the same deal everyone else got. If they HAD somehow managed to sell (or at least put to retail and wipe their hands of) more than a couple thousand boxes over the last few years, they might not actually have the 9k+ it would take to fulfill them all if ALL backers participated and ALL wanted ALL cores.

These are a LOT of 'if' statements.

And of course, I'm not blind that they are clearly valuing 'new money' well over what they sent to us. And it ignores the expansion boxes, which they probably have a ton of as well, and some backers seem to be taking them up on, from what I've read. So, it's a balancing act; trying to put out stuff to backers to shut them up, and still have stuff on hand to draw in 'real money' from non-haters, while not running so short on either as to accidentally start yet another clusterfeth to add to the clusterfeth pile they've been building for years.

I'm NOT saying that this was done out of generosity or any noble action on their behalf. More a matter of 'we don't want to risk running out of this stuff, but we do want to get as close to 'paying off' as many backers as possible, and pick up as much fresh money as possible, while avoiding having someones garage filled with this gak for the next decade or two'.

Late edit: one could also multiply the number of backers per tier by their price and then subtract that from the initial total to get a ballpark on how much was allocated for wave 2 stuff (since I doubt people were buying destroid kits by the thousands in the PM, when that math often lined up to just get a whole extra BC instead), but that's getting a bit more involved than I really wanted to be while working out this bit of quick and dirty assessment. The exact numbers weren't important, the ballpark of 'they probably didn't want to go too steep and risk starting another unnecessary fire/loss of potential fire sales' might have simply made 'let's just give them KS prices and call it a day' seem like the better call.

So the long and the short of it is to get backers to trade for the minimum they can and still leave room to sell some product and hope they do not need to sell the remainder to some fan-friend to trickle out on ebay.

I am concerned with when the license "actually" expires, all sales methods seem to be still up: PB website and Drivethru.

What I am wondering is NOW they have managed to get a HUGE commitment to the exchange they make the decision: NOW put out refunds (angering many that made the exchange) or they simply go with the idea "you had your chance" and sweep anything still owed under the carpet as a game of chicken with litigation. I am surprised they did not expunge all they could to remove all current information on Robotech and PB. Every day the KS for RRT is open gives more chances for backers to organize who may be late to cluing in on the closure of the KS.

I am also curious if they will have any Robotech at Anime North (May 25th): I bet they could not help themselves if they have extra stock.

Ah well, good times.

As to use of the miniatures: it still looks pretty when done right.

There is some hope for me, my youngest son was watching Robotech on Netflix and seemed to enjoy it.
He enjoys Khyron more than is healthy, not sure how to customize his Glaug to befit "the backstabber".
He just got through Breetai going into space and beating up Veritechs in hand-to-hand so he is considered an official "Boss" character so I now have to get that model done.
I now have to make a blue VT since Max is the favored hero (too bad his hair is blue, my kid's is green), waiting to hear his opinion on Miriya.
He is confused why Rick has trouble choosing: "Lisa" is obviously the better woman for coming up with "the Daedalus maneuver", he figures she is a keeper for that alone (what are they doing? Ah, that... is... AWESOME!).
"Minmay is dumb." was the other observation (for not recognizing Rick could die in a battle and for mistaking a medal as jewelry).
I do admit it has been very funny watching this again and hearing his observations.

Just saw "Ready Player One" on the weekend and now he is asking to see more of "Gundam" after seeing one in action.
I do not like to indulge too much in nostalgia, but I feel negligent not exposing my kids to what was a ton of fun prior to their births.

Your kid is definitely on the ball. Max is my favourite character, and Lisa is absolutely the better relationship.

I may actually be at Anime North for the first time this year, so perhaps I'll get to check out their booth. I'll be working for a friend's booth (selling cookies and chocolate and candied bacon with the best of them), so I definitely won't be there to make a scene, but scoping them out for shenanigans wouldn't be a problem.

Robotech products are now gone from their webstore. They still show up as master categories, but any particular item comes up as 'not available'.

Palladium Books ROBOTECH legacy is dead. Only disposal of the corpses remains.

According to some information from reliable sources, Harmony Gold did indeed cancel PB's license due to the disaster PB created with RRT. HG also gave PB a rather lengthy extension on their license in order to allow PB to untangle the RRT mess and 'do right' by Robotech fans.

So the mile markers of Kev's failures revealed in this debacle continue to multiply.

You want to multiply it a little further, give them a call in a couple days and ask them if you can buy half a dozen core boxes.

Merijeek wrote:
You want to multiply it a little further, give them a call in a couple days and ask them if you can buy half a dozen core boxes.

Muah-hahahahaha!

Merijeek wrote:
You want to multiply it a little further, give them a call in a couple days and ask them if you can buy half a dozen core boxes.

This sounds very conspiratorial, but I suspect there are well defined methods for special fan friends to buy "out of stock" items at the Palladium Store.

 Forar wrote:
Your kid is definitely on the ball. Max is my favourite character, and Lisa is absolutely the better relationship.
I may actually be at Anime North for the first time this year, so perhaps I'll get to check out their booth. I'll be working for a friend's booth (selling cookies and chocolate and candied bacon with the best of them), so I definitely won't be there to make a scene, but scoping them out for shenanigans wouldn't be a problem.

The kids love the show so I am pretty much guaranteed to go.
Ditto on not making a scene since this means a lot to my little men.
My youngest would be at your booth just for anything that is bacon.
The PB booth would be a truly sad state of affairs.
Last time I was there someone asked what they did and "who" they were.
I felt like telling him to run and that it was too late for me.

Well, we are creeping closer and closer to not having to hear a single missive from PB and feel we need to pay it any attention at all.
That will be a happy day.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmmm...

Still see the books listed on Drivethru.
Will be interesting to see how long sales could still drag on through there. Probably as long as they show some communication prior of shutting it down given. Funny seeing the 2018 open house listed for $55, I could see an NHL quarterfinals game for less (and have more fun).

I can confirm they did a rather fast and dirty takedown at PB.
Breaking a bunch of links.
Will just need some record tidying up and it will be like nothing happened.

Will be interesting to see how the KS page will be handled.

Since their license has officially expired now, I expect they'll drop into radio silence again, since they have nothing to promote, and likely figure they have nothing to gain by being 'helpful' to their Kickstarter customers any longer.

Still no response to my refusal of substitute product and demand of a refund, which I messaged to them 30 days ago today.

I suppose a registered letter is my next avenue.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The hilarious 'resource' page showing "just a few of the many sculpts sent to China for engineering and tooling. We include this gallery as a reminder of the good things yet to come in Wave Two" is still there. Get your memorial screensnips while you can...

http://www.palladiumbooks.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=765&Itemid=479

Yeah, felt a slight panic attack of stuff being sold off and most re-sale stuff remaining high in price. Then I remembered I had bought this stuff here and there at hugely reduced prices just talking to people and getting a deal. I think I have more than I will ever need, even cannibalizing the odd stuff for printed items.

I know this is an absolutely a dead game in most all respects.
I guess I just want to see this as the game it should have been and demo it as a complete package. Get some pictures and have fond memories and forget the bad.

My kids enjoy what I have so-far and want to see the fancier units that wave 1 lacks (working on it, I want to see them too).
I think I have the YF-4 and the "Jotun" remaining.

As a vendor on Drivethru, it does take some manual configuration to take down the PDFs, about 5-15 minute worth (longest time to figure the interface out for the 1st remove from sale/delete from inventory). With all that “work” involved, expect to see the PDFs drop off one per week...

I will say one of the benefits of this whole KS was that I sat down and rewatched the entire series while I was assembling my minis - I’d forgotten how many episodes of the Macross series took place AFTER the Zents had been vanquished.

All this talk really makes me want to rewatch Robotech, and then hit Hobby Link Japan for some bandai goodness.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
All this talk really makes me want to rewatch Robotech, and then hit Hobby Link Japan for some bandai goodness.

You're in luck. Super Ostrich just came up for pre-orders.

I still enjoy watching Robotech.

 n815e wrote:
I still enjoy watching Robotech.

Watching it again with my youngest.
I swear you could play a drinking game of "spot the Monster".
I forgot just how insane Max is in the show, just really nice and low-key (insane skills and says "What? doesn't everyone take out entire squads of pods singlehandedly??),... no wonder Miriya was driven nuts by him at first.
Good lesson that it is enough to want to constantly improve at something, not just the goal to beat others (which is a byproduct of that practice).
Good show, much better than Yugi-Oh, Beyblade or Pokemon where all the characters are shouting at each other and "do battle!!!!", in my opinion anyway.

Its amazing how wistful and nostalgic we can get together as a group - with fond memories and a true love of Robotech. We obviously have a love of the franchise, and if given the proper tools, could really enjoy ourselves and support each other.

Makes it all that more infuriating when PB bumbles into the scene and falls flat on it’s face. It’s kinda like the uncle no one likes who shows up to the family reunion and manages to annoy everyone before falling asleep drunk on the couch.

The lawsuit seems to have failed.

 Lynx7725 wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
All this talk really makes me want to rewatch Robotech, and then hit Hobby Link Japan for some bandai goodness.

You're in luck. Super Ostrich just came up for pre-orders.

I don't know what that is. Is it something I want to google?





Automatically Appended Next Post:
The novels expanded the lore past the series, right? Can someone spoil for me how the novel series ends? That will help me decide whether or not to read the Sentinels stuff and beyond.

I didn't read that it failed, it just didn't get picked up by the place in California, so they are going to try a couple different States now.