How could they fix the Astra militarum with a new codex?

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**TheSilo**

I liked the old Cityfight rule that made ordnance weapons -1 to cover saves and Strength 9+ ordnance was -2 to cover saves. So the basilisk was -2 on cover saves, which made it incredibly deadly.

**Desubot**

TheSilo wrote:
I liked the old Cityfight rule that made ordnance weapons -1 to cover saves and Strength 9+ ordnance was -2 to cover saves. So the basilisk was -2 on cover saves, which made it incredibly deadly.

Would love all of that too. but current Terrain rules are bleh

Also the prevelence of shrouded things getting 2+ saves forever in ruins.

Which is why i would prefer the ignore cover rule on a unit of 3 basks.

**vipoid**

Honestly, I think the game would be better served by having cover modifiers - rather than making cover all or nothing.

But then, I also think we could do with having fewer stacking cover bonuses.

**UrsoerTheSquid**

As I mentioned earlier, I think the motorcycle and side car sw teams could be awesome, either with heavy bolters or heavy stubbers. A fast moving unit that could potentially jink could do a lot for the guard.

**TheCustomLime**

Blacksails wrote:
I'd love for sentinels to be incorporated as troops or intergrated into platoons.

And made cheaper.

And have a veteran upgrade.

And take a multi-melta.

But mostly the first thing.

That would be interesting. Take them instead of your Heavy Weapons Team allotments to represent a scouting/mobile force?

**vipoid**

Instead of incorporating them into platoons, what if they were additions to Veteran squads?

**Blacksails**

vipoid wrote:
Instead of incorporating them into platoons, what if they were additions to Veteran squads?

whynotboth.jpg

**vipoid**

Because too much innovation at once may cause the designers' brains to overheat.

**TheCustomLime**

vipoid wrote:
Because too much innovation at once may cause the designers' brains to overheat.

If the latest Space Marine codex is anything to go by...

**Blacksails**

vipoid wrote:
Because too much innovation at once may cause the designers' brains to overheat.

You're right.

I'm thinking too much again.

I promise it won't happen again.

**Kanluwen**

TheCustomLime wrote:
Blacksails wrote:
I'd love for sentinels to be incorporated as troops or intergrated into platoons.

And made cheaper.

And have a veteran upgrade.

And take a multi-melta.

But mostly the first thing.

That would be interesting. Take them instead of your Heavy Weapons Team allotments to represent a scouting/mobile force?

In addition to, not in place of. At least in my opinion.

Sentinels(Recon and Armored) are what I feel the Guard should be looking towards in lieu of Rough Riders.

**Vaktathi**

vipoid wrote:
Red Marine wrote:

Cavalry as a strong fighting force died in the early 16th century. Aristocratic attempts to keep it viable through the 19th century usually ended in humiliating trajedy. Mounted combat was deliverd a merciless death blow in WW1. See Gallipoli. Rifled weapons utterly & completely removed cavalry from the modern battlefield. There best use today(2015) and 100 years ago was as a rural scouting force. If you want them on the table top I'd agree to see them as tiny scouting partys that help with Scout or Infiltrate.

Roughriders take the sci-fi element right outta the game for me. I dont care if thier cyber horcies, velocoraptor cav or potato dragoons. The wackier steeds just make it look more like fantasy battle. No more cowboys & aliens.

I know what you mean, but then I think the same about bikes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but bikes were typically used for messengers and such - they weren't just sent to the front line to do the equivalent of a cavalry-charge.

What's worse is GW's rules for bikes. Apparently, riding a bike makes you:
- Tougher (those WWII bilkers were infamous for there ability to just shrug off direct missile strikes)
- Able to aim at targets in any direction with a front-mounted weapon
- Able to ride and fire heavy weapons much easier than on foot because... reasons. Also, there's no penalty for trying to aim such weapons whilst riding a bike - that's easy. And yet, apparently shooting a moving flier is impossible even for the most skilled soldier.

All true

Although, they could also make an interesting transport option. Bike mounted infantry, essentially Dragoons, start on the board and get to run around with huge speed for the first bit, then disembark and fight as infantry, for like 20pts or something? That could be fun.

**Xenomancers**

I really don't see any problem with current gard. Make their heavy weapons cheaper is about the only thing I think they really need. Maybe like others suggested - a bike unit that had some toughness and mobility could be a great addition to the AM.

**Desubot**

Xenomancers wrote:
I really don't see any problem with current gard. Make their heavy weapons cheaper is about the only thing I think they really need. Maybe like others suggested - a bike unit that had some toughness and mobility could be a great addition to the AM.

the issues Guard have is in the Elite and a bit of the FA section. as well as the price of basils and the fact that Lemons are not heavy.

**Kanluwen**

I vote we make Leman Russ Superheavy Vehicles.

If a Wraithknight can be a "Gargantuan Monstrous Creature", then by God a Leman Russ can be a Superheavy!

**TheCustomLime**

I think Platoons should also have a slot for a big'un like a Leman Russ or a Basilisk. Mordian Iron Guard does have a somewhat similar system in place when it comes to their armor but having one Leman Russ per squad would be impractical. I think having an attached piece of armor would both free up the heavily contested HS slots and better represent some Regiment's fighting style.

**UrsoerTheSquid**

With all the talk of the bikes floating around, it would probably be a good unit to put in the elite slot and leave the fast attack slots open for hell hounds and flyers.

**Blacksails**

They could do a lot of things, but I imagine we'll get some sort of decurion/warhost/gladius thing.

1+ Core, 1+ Auxilia, 0-1 Command.

Command would be company command squads, company commander characters, and maybe Lord Commissars or Tank Commanders.

Core would be an infantry platoon, with a bunch of 0-X options for vets, conscripts, company or platoon command squads, and transports.

Auxilia would be formations for a bunch of the rest, like a rough rider formation, or sentinal patrol party, or leman russ tank platoon.

If you take the Shield of the Imperium formation (calling it now) you get to re-roll all orders, everything is obsec, and you get free chimeras. Or russes. Both. Free arty. All weapon upgrades are free.

The rough rider formation would grant them fear. And if we're lucky, soul blaze too. That'll make them super OP.

**TheCustomLime**

Blacksails wrote:
They could do a lot of things, but I imagine we'll get some sort of decurion/warhost/gladius thing.

1+ Core, 1+ Auxilia, 0-1 Command.

Command would be company command squads, company commander characters, and maybe Lord Commissars or Tank Commanders.

Core would be an infantry platoon, with a bunch of 0-X options for vets, conscripts, company or platoon command squads, and transports.

Auxilia would be formations for a bunch of the rest, like a rough rider formation, or sentinal patrol party, or leman russ tank platoon.

If you take the Shield of the Imperium formation (calling it now) you get to re-roll all orders, everything is obsec, and you get free chimeras. Or russes. Both. Free arty. All weapon upgrades are free.

The rough rider formation would grant them fear. And if we're lucky, soul blaze too. That'll make them super OP.

I don't think it'll be called that. Not enough faux pig-Latin.

**Blacksails**

Anvilium sound better?

**TheCustomLime**

Anvilum Imperialis Miltaria. With a Web Exclusive formation consisting of 9 Wyverns which gains +1 Strength, Rending and only scatters a 1D6. Call it... uhh... The Astra Militarum Siegus Gunnus formation.

**Furyou Miko**

Blacksails wrote:I'd love for sentinels to be incorporated as troops or intergrated into platoons.

TheCustomLime wrote:

That would be interesting. Take them instead of your Heavy Weapons Team allotments to represent a scouting/mobile force?

Elysians can take a squadron of Drop Sentinels (Sentinels with Multi-melta, Heavy Flamer or Heavy Bolter) in our Platoons instead of getting access to Conscript squads.

It's not broken, even with Deep Strike - partly because we pay something like fifty points per Sentinel.

Even with it, most people who field Sentinels field them as Elites choices because Platoons are substandard compared to Veterans and all our support options are so expensive.

**TranSpyre**

I feel like we need more walker options, on top of making sentinels better.

I want to field the mercenary army from avatar, Dammit!

**Blacksails**

TheCustomLime wrote:
Anvilum Imperialis Miltaria. With a Web Exclusive formation consisting of 9 Wyverns which gains +1 Strength, Rending and only scatters a 1D6. Call it... uhh... The Astra Militarum Siegus Gunnus formation.

You need a command chimera in there for extra sale - errr, fluff...narrative, yeah.

**Ignatius**

Red Marine wrote:
NO ROUGHRIDERS!!!

Sam I am I will not play cowboys in space,
I will not fight them at your place,
I will not battle them in any space,
Sam I am get'em outta my face,
and pack'em back in your case

Cavalry as a strong fighting force died in the early 16th century. Aristocratic attempts to keep it viable through the 19th century usually ended in humiliating trajedy. Mounted combat was deliverd a merciless death blow in WW1. See Gallipoli. Rifled weapons utterly & completely removed cavalry from the modern battlefield. There best use today(2015) and 100 years ago was as a rural scouting force. If you want them on the table top I'd agree to see them as tiny scouting partys that help with Scout or Infiltrate.

Roughriders take the sci-fi element right outta the game for me. I dont care if thier cyber horcies, velocoraptor cav or potato dragoons. The wackier steeds just make it look more like fantasy battle. No more cowboys & aliens.

Also Astra Millitarium is awful. IG forever.

All I got out of this was: "Stop having fun in a different way than I do".

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Ignatius wrote:
Red Marine wrote:
NO ROUGHRIDERS!!!

Sam I am I will not play cowboys in space,
I will not fight them at your place,
I will not battle them in any space,
Sam I am get'em outta my face,
and pack'em back in your case

Cavalry as a strong fighting force died in the early 16th century. Aristocratic attempts to keep it viable through the 19th century usually ended in humiliating trajedy. Mounted combat was deliverd a merciless death blow in WW1. See Gallipoli. Rifled weapons utterly & completely removed cavalry from the modern battlefield. There best use today(2015) and 100 years ago was as a rural scouting force. If you want them on the table top I'd agree to see them as tiny scouting partys that help with Scout or Infiltrate.

Roughriders take the sci-fi element right outta the game for me. I dont care if thier cyber horcies, velocoraptor cav or potato dragoons. The wackier steeds just make it look more like fantasy battle. No more cowboys & aliens.

Also Astra Millitarium is awful. IG forever.

All I got out of this was: "Stop having fun in a different way than I do".

Plus him saying that really makes me wish there was an option for Dragoons, so I could have Dragoons, Heavy Dragoons, Light Dragoons, Command Dragoons and then some straight up Cavalry for support.

**Ignatius**

VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Ignatius wrote:
Red Marine wrote:
NO ROUGHRIDERS!!!

Sam I am I will not play cowboys in space,
I will not fight them at your place,
I will not battle them in any space,
Sam I am get'em outta my face,
and pack'em back in your case

Cavalry as a strong fighting force died in the early 16th century. Aristocratic attempts to keep it viable through the 19th century usually ended in humiliating trajedy. Mounted combat was deliverd a merciless death blow in WW1. See Gallipoli. Rifled weapons utterly & completely removed cavalry from the modern battlefield. There best use today(2015) and 100 years ago was as a rural scouting force. If you want them on the table top I'd agree to see them as tiny scouting partys that help with Scout or Infiltrate.

Roughriders take the sci-fi element right outta the game for me. I dont care if thier cyber horcies, velocoraptor cav or potato dragoons. The wackier steeds just make it look more like fantasy battle. No more cowboys & aliens.

Also Astra Millitarium is awful. IG forever.

All I got out of this was: "Stop having fun in a different way than I do".

Plus him saying that really makes me wish there was an option for Dragoons, so I could have Dragoons, Heavy Dragoons, Light Dragoons, Command Dragoons and then some straight up Cavalry for support.

Not only do I hope Rough Riders get better, I've actually been wishing for an option to make entire platoons with command squads and advisors mounted on horses. That'd be incredible... To me at least

That said, 40k is full of stuff that makes zero tactical sense. Most of the time, people just say something along the lines of "you can't bring logic into this game" or something. Yet when it comes to using cavalry it becomes appropriate to analyze them in that exact same way.

**Kanluwen**

This is about "fixing the IG codex".

Rough Riders are a symptom of what ails the book; a holdover to the days of yesteryear and the constant placation of fans who want to keep fielding models older than some of the players of this game.

Personally, again, I want Rough Riders removed not because "Stop having fun different than how I have fun!" but rather because I see no need for them outside of the Death Korps of Krieg.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Ignatius wrote:
VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Ignatius wrote:
Red Marine wrote:
NO ROUGHRIDERS!!!

Sam I am I will not play cowboys in space,
I will not fight them at your place,
I will not battle them in any space,
Sam I am get'em outta my face,
and pack'em back in your case

Cavalry as a strong fighting force died in the early 16th century. Aristocratic attempts to keep it viable through the 19th century usually ended in humiliating trajedy. Mounted combat was deliverd a merciless death blow in WW1. See Gallipoli. Rifled weapons utterly & completely removed cavalry from the modern battlefield. There best use today(2015) and 100 years ago was as a rural scouting force. If you want them on the table top I'd agree to see them as tiny scouting partys that help with Scout or Infiltrate.

Roughriders take the sci-fi element right outta the game for me. I dont care if thier cyber horcies, velocoraptor cav or potato dragoons. The wackier steeds just make it look more like fantasy battle. No more cowboys & aliens.

Also Astra Millitarium is awful. IG forever.

All I got out of this was: "Stop having fun in a different way than I do".

Plus him saying that really makes me wish there was an option for Dragoons, so I could have Dragoons, Heavy Dragoons, Light Dragoons, Command Dragoons and then some straight up Cavalry for support.

Not only do I hope Rough Riders get better, I've actually been wishing for an option to make entire platoons with command squads and advisors mounted on horses. That'd be incredible... To me at least

That said, 40k is full of stuff that makes zero tactical sense. Most of the time, people just say something along the lines of "you can't bring logic into this game" or something. Yet when it comes to using cavalry it becomes appropriate to analyze them in that exact same way.

Paint them all blue with Red or Gold Stripes on the Legs and give the Officers Stetsons. They can be the CAV vs the Orks Indians.

Fun fact about Dragoons, not related to US CAV, but in the 70s Portugal created a Dragoon Unit to work closely with their Air CAV to fight Rebels in Africa. It was highly effective.

**Kanluwen**

VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

Paint them all blue with Red or Gold Stripes on the Legs and give the Officers Stetsons. They can be the CAV vs the Orks Indians.

Fun fact about Dragoons, not related to US CAV, but in the 70s Portugal created a Dragoon Unit to work closely with their Air CAV to fight Rebels in Africa. It was highly effective.

And during the initial invasion of Afghanistan, the Northern tribes mounted a cavalry charge against a Taliban position. It was successful as all hell.

But that doesn't mean anything in the context of this thread, does it?