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That's not how its organised. It would be the 9823rd Regiment's X Company working with an attached Armour Platoon from the 8293rd Armoured Regiment.

To expand on Miko's post the IG does not do combined arms regiments. The Departmento Munitorum organizes the assets of the Guard into mostly homogenous regiments of roughy the same fighting effectiveness. An armored regiment will rarely have infantry assets and conversely a Rifles regiment will not have any basilisks. This is to ensure that any treasonous regiments won't have all the assets they need to fight a war.

Furyou Miko wrote:That's not how its organised. It would be the 9823rd Regiment's X Company working with an attached Armour Platoon from the 8293rd Armoured Regiment.

TheCustomLime wrote:To expand on Miko's post the IG does not do combined arms regiments. The Departmento Munitorum organizes the assets of the Guard into mostly homogenous regiments of roughy the same fighting effectiveness. An armored regiment will rarely have infantry assets and conversely a Rifles regiment will not have any basilisks. This is to ensure that any treasonous regiments won't have all the assets they need to fight a war.

Except for the part where there are in the fluff several Regiments which feature combine arms, being Cadian, Armageddon, Mordian regiments.

They may be from the same home world and they may be supporting one another but the different elements of the army is most definitely from separate regiments.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
The Departmento Munitorum organizes the assets of the Guard into mostly homogenous regiments of roughy the same fighting effectiveness. An armored regiment will rarely have infantry assets and conversely a Rifles regiment will not have any basilisks. This is to ensure that any treasonous regiments won't have all the assets they need to fight a war.

Have you ever read the Fluff? The Novels? Codex: Armageddon? Codex: Catachans? How about simply looking at the various things that GW has pictures of.

The famous IG regiments have armor and infantry. Cadia, apparently has everything in the Codex, bar abhumans (and it may well have all of those, too).

I think you are confusing armies with regiments. An army can consist of infantry, tanks and artillery but not an individual regiment. Typically armored regiments are broken up and assigned to infantry regiments as temporary reinforcements. Often the armored and infantry elements share a similar color scheme for various reasons such as environment, being from the same home world of origin or the armored elements adopted the colors of the infantry they are attached to for whatever reason. This can happen too with elements that aren't even part of the Guard such as Valkyries.

I think GW is rather sloppy in the way they describe "Regiments".

The fact is, most IG homeworlds have the ability to field combined arms.

It doesn't help that every studio army I have seen was painted entirely with the same color scheme.

Page 103 ish of IA4 Second edition has attached Taros squadrons, tarantula sentry guns, Sentinels, and cyclops demolitions. The d-99 are not just made up of infantry.

The only separation between forces are aircraft which are given to the navy. Imo aircraft restricted to planetary use should also be given to the guard as it would inevitably be restricted to operations on a single planet and open to attack from orbiting fleets.

The vraks book part one has a list of an infantry COMPANY and an artillery COMPANY both of which have centaurs and the artillery COMPANY having trojans, and atlus. So no, regiments are not just one thing, they also include supporting elements that allow them to actually carry out their intended role.

I think the whole "regiment" thing is another issue of GW not having much of an idea of what they were talking about in the first place, and other authors either not knowing the original fluff, or choosing to discard it.

It also doesn't help that GW uses the term "Regiment" to simultaneously mean "different world's levies" (e.g. Cadian vs Catachan), as well as actual elements of battle, variously referred to in sized from 2,000 to over 100,,000 strong, sometimes it refers to something of a modern day regiment or battalion in terms of size, other times it's corps or army sized, etc.

There is very definitely solid statements from GW that the IG does not use combined arms regiments and that such are assembled from various different regiments. There is also very definite fluff from GW portraying actual combined arms regiments.

TL;DR GW's consistency is bad.

The thing is, GW Codices should be assumed to be Canon-1, so if they show Cadia with Infantry, Mech Inf, Armor, Heavy Armor, and Artillery - that is combined arms for the army / plantary "Cadian Shock Troops Regiment", which includes military organizational "regiments" of variable size and composition.

As the DM is administrative, I assume they say things but actually have their heads up their gakholes, like pretty much any purely administrative organization that isn't actually down in the gak getting their hands and boots dirty.

Also, by the Fluff, with Cadia being so close to the Cadian Gate, Daemons being real, etc. it's unclear how Cadia isn't the poster child for separation. As it is, if Cadia's forces were to turn to Chaos, the Imperium would never retake it.

The problem with using fluff as part of your argument, is that the company who writes it is often willfully ignorant of their own fluff or retcons it to serve their purpose of selling more models. Also, the galaxy is a big place, allowing for all kinds of exceptions to the rule.

Although, I think we can all agree that MLP and Hello Kitty Marines are heresy, so there's something we can all have in common

Sledgehammer wrote:Page 103 ish of IA4 Second edition has attached Taros squadrons, tarantula sentry guns, Sentinels, and cyclops demolitions. The d-99 are not just made up of infantry.

Elysian regiments specifically are noted to be made up of airborne infantry, some of whom are trained to use Tauros Scout Vehicles and Drop Sentinel support walkers. D-99 is a bad example anyway - its a special formation. You want to look at IA8's information for an image of how a standard Elysian force is organised. IA3 has them operating as part of a larger force, so it follows the usual organisation of mixed regiments.

The vraks book part one has a list of an infantry COMPANY and an artillery COMPANY both of which have centaurs and the artillery COMPANY having trojans, and atlus. So no, regiments are not just one thing, they also include supporting elements that allow them to actually carry out their intended role.

But neither of them have tanks. The Centaur is an IFV like the Chimera, which is often part of a infantry company. As for the Trojans and ARVs, of course they're part of the artillery company - they're artillery tractors! They are not, however, tanks or infantry formations.

The Imperial Guard was divided after the Horus Heresy to ensure that no one regiment turning would pose a threat. A good example of this is in the Gaunt's Ghosts series when the Tanith 1st, an infantry only regiment, is combined with the Pardus 8th armoured regiment, a tank regiment, to achieve an objective. While there may be exceptions in the wide galaxy, this is supposed to be the most common arrangement.

 the_Armyman wrote:
Although, I think we can all agree that MLP and Hello Kitty Marines are heresy, so there's something we can all have in common

You just opened a whole new can of worms.

I the grimdark of the far future, there is only Hello Kitty.

One thing I thought would be cool is if Vox caster actually act like radios. So a Commander could issue orders to units outside of his range if they both had vox casters. That would make complete sense and would be really thematic.

 Gamerely wrote:
One thing I thought would be cool is if Vox caster actually act like radios. So a Commander could issue orders to units outside of his range if they both had vox casters. That would make complete sense and would be really thematic.

Instead of rerolls?

Id like that.

 the Signless wrote:
The Imperial Guard was divided after the Horus Heresy to ensure that no one regiment turning would pose a threat. A good example of this is in the Gaunt's Ghosts series when the Tanith 1st, an infantry only regiment, is combined with the Pardus 8th armoured regiment, a tank regiment, to achieve an objective. While there may be exceptions in the wide galaxy, this is supposed to be the most common arrangement.

 the_Armyman wrote:
Although, I think we can all agree that MLP and Hello Kitty Marines are heresy, so there's something we can all have in common

You just opened a whole new can of worms.

I the grimdark of the far future, there is only Hello Kitty.

The Imperial Army was divided into the Imperial Guard and the Imperial Navy. This division makes it impossible for a single army commander to conduct a ground war and get to his destination as he has no ships of his own. He must rely on the navy to go anywhere, just as the navy must rely on the guard to defend planetary assets.

That division does not carry over into individual guard regiments, except for restrictions on aircraft which are under the jurisdiction of the Navy.

Regiments are not restricted from having any ground assets, and are only restricted from obtaining navy assets. In other words, regiments can mix and max units.

What book is that chart from?

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
The thing is, GW Codices should be assumed to be Canon-1, so if they show Cadia with Infantry, Mech Inf, Armor, Heavy Armor, and Artillery - that is combined arms for the army / plantary "Cadian Shock Troops Regiment", which includes military organizational "regiments" of variable size and composition.

But you're confusing "regiment" with "a planet's entire military production". Cadia produces infantry regiments, tank regiments, etc, but they aren't necessarily combined into mixed formations.

 Blacksails wrote:
What book is that chart from?

The Imperial Munitorum Manual, the bureaucratic equivalent of the Uplifting Primer. It is in the section which is a case study of the Cadian 91st regiment. The 91st is an infantry regiment consisting of ten companies of around three hundred and fifty men each. It doesn't really mention attached armour, other than supply vehicles and a large number of chimeras.

Another interesting case study would be the 19th Konig Armoured Regiment from the Icaedus campaign, shown in IA1:2E.



It shows the structure of an armoured regiment. Of particular note are that it only has 865 lasguns, showing how few infantry it actually has available when compared to the over 5000 personnel in the Cadian 91st (described as a small regiment). It also shows how a regiment can be an amalgamation of several compaines.

Of course, in 40k pretty much anything goes. Whilst having separate infantry and tank regiments is the norm, the rare exceptions crop up at an increased rate. Things like airborne regiments are very rare, as are regiments working under inquisitors or marines.

I'd caution against trying to think so one dimensionally with regards to the whole "what is a regiment" conundrum.

In this kind of situation I usually go to the old: "It's the imperial guard. If you want it to happen it will." And call it a day.

 Trickstick wrote:

Spoiler:

 Blacksails wrote:
What book is that chart from?

The Imperial Munitorum Manual, the bureaucratic equivalent of the Uplifting Primer. It is in the section which is a case study of the Cadian 91st regiment. The 91st is an infantry regiment consisting of ten companies of around three hundred and fifty men each. It doesn't really mention attached armour, other than supply vehicles and a large number of chimeras.

Another interesting case study would be the 19th Konig Armoured Regiment from the Icaedus campaign, shown in IA1:2E.

[spoiler]

It shows the structure of an armoured regiment. Of particular note are that it only has 865 lasguns, showing how few infantry it actually has available when compared to the over 5000 personnel in the Cadian 91st (described as a small regiment). It also shows how a regiment can be an amalgamation of several compaines.

Of course, in 40k pretty much anything goes. Whilst having separate infantry and tank regiments is the norm, the rare exceptions crop up at an increased rate. Things like airborne regiments are very rare, as are regiments working under inquisitors or marines.[/spoiler]

Thanks for that. My own regiment is in the middle of a restructuring.

 Ignatius wrote:
I'd caution against trying to think so one dimensionally with regards to the whole "what is a regiment" conundrum.

In this kind of situation I usually go to the old: "It's the imperial guard. If you want it to happen it will." And call it a day.

This, so much, this!

Just one thing I want to say on this.

I used to have a very old codex (not sure what edition) that required IG players to choose doctrines. Now, at the time I disliked that I had to 'unlock' special units with my 5 points, such as stormtroopers, but there were a lot of fluff doctrines that actually added to the feeling of your own unique force.

The examples I can recall were:
Close order drill -> recommended for Mordian armies
+1WS in close combat, but only if all models in squad are in base to base contact.

Light infantry ->
+1 cover saves (across all infantry), no tanks allowed.

I would really like to see a big compendium of these to mix and match special doctrines to fit a customised army!

Based on the return of SM Traits, IG Doctrines are a given. I think you look to the SM Codex for examples of how they might do things. I suspect there would be a Light Infantry Company that could work alongside a Heavy Tank Platoon, or even Superheavies - just because the troopers are Light infantry, doesn't mean they won't be stationed with heavy armor.

More importantly, GW wants to sell Tanks.

I want a new Militarum Tempestus codex, with more choices (at least the same amount as the Cult Mechanicum stuff).

But on the other hand, I dislike splitting the armies in more codices than necessary haha. Meh

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Based on the return of SM Traits, IG Doctrines are a given. I think you look to the SM Codex for examples of how they might do things. I suspect there would be a Light Infantry Company that could work alongside a Heavy Tank Platoon, or even Superheavies - just because the troopers are Light infantry, doesn't mean they won't be stationed with heavy armor.

More importantly, GW wants to sell Tanks.

From wikipedia "Contemporary light infantry forces

Today the term "light" denotes, in the United States table of organization and equipment, units lacking heavy weapons and armor or with a reduced vehicle footprint. Light infantry units lack the greater firepower, operational mobility and protection of mechanized or armored units, but possess greater tactical mobility and the ability to execute missions in severely restrictive terrain and in areas where weather makes vehicular mobility difficult."

My guys only use buggies (taros), long rang artillery support, air support, and sentinels for their "big" firepower. Tanks and other large vehicles (essentially everything in the IG) go against the light infantry doctrine. Right now my guys suffer a lot from my self imposed handicap with no benefit. Even then, I already give all my guys camo cloaks.

GW relies on actual modern military doctrine for things that represent WW1-WW2 in space?

What I would like to see in the next codex:

1. Regiment tactics. Something similar to chapter tactics. Cadians would get stuborn, Catachan Stealth/move through cover, and so on.

2. Maybe a formation where the IG/AM could get free transports. Just imagine not paying for Chimeras.

3. Valkyries as dedicated transports for CCS and storm troopers

4. Increase squadron size for sentinels to 5, like killa kans, speeders.

5. Rough riders. They need to be able to assault the turn they come into play, or, increase toughness like SM bikes.

6. Special weapons cost adjust. The imperium is a mass prduction machine. So, why do plasma guns and plasma pistols cost the same as the SM codex?

Just some thoughts. Would like to see good formations, not the crap that came out with a PCS/Ogryn squad.

Armageddon Steel Legions:
>Mechanized Assault (All Transports become Fast)
>Hatred (Orks)
Cadian Shock Troops:
>Las-Gun Drill (May Re-Roll To-Hit Rolls of 1 when shooting with Las-Guns)
>Hardened Fighters (Stubborn)
Catachan Jungle Fighters:
>Jungle Fighters (Gain +1 to Cover Saves in Jungle or Woods)
>Knife Fighters (Can Replace Las-Gun for Las Pistol for Free)
Elysian Drop Troops:
>Grav-Chute Insertion (Units with out Transports may Deep Strike)
>Air-Mobile (Valkyries can be taken as Dedicated Transports)
Mordian Iron Guard:
>Rank and File (If all Models of a unit are in base contact with each other they may fire Over-watch at full BS)
>Formation March ( If all Models of a unit are in base contact with each other they may Fire one extra shot with Non-Heavy Weapons)
Tallarn Desert Raider:
>Raiders (Scout Rule)
>Hit and Run (Hit and Run Rule)
Tanith First an Only:
>Stealthy (Stealth)
>Infiltrators (Infiltrate)
The Death Korps of Krieg:
>Hard World (FNP 6+)
>No Fear of Death (Immunity to Fear)
Valhallan Ice Warriors:
>Aggressive Fighters (Moral at 50%)
>Bring the Fight to them (May Run and Shoot or Shoot and Run)
Vostroyan First Born:
>Dept to be Repaid (Can always attempt to Regroup)
>Wealthy Family (Each Character gets a Free Mastercraft Weapon)

Besides Unit Points Adjustments:
Rough Riders (Make T4, Make Lances I+2, Option to replace Lance with second Las-Pistol or Las-Gun)
Add Rough Rider Command Squad (5 Models + optional Commissar, but No Heavy Weapons)
Add Rough Rider Veterans (Same Options as Veteran Squad, but No Heavy Weapons)