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 Selym wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

Russes: actually 3 things
1) bring back lumbering behemoth, simply ignores the snap-shots only with ordnance.
2) separate the battle tanks and siege tanks as different entries.
3) beast-hunter shells as upgrades for a vanquisher.

Regimental Doctrines: basically a guard chapter tactics, but with bene's and negs. Possibilities are:
Mechanized- every unit that can must take a transport, but at a reduced cost.
Light infantry- loses armor save but gaing stealth and move through cover.
Some sort of Cadian related doctrine- extra order per officer, must take at least 1 platoon.
Drop troops: deep strike for every infantry and sentinels, no tanks.

Add an Armoured Regiment doctrine.

Armoured Regiment:
The primary detachment must contain at least two Leman Russ tanks or variants, which may be in the same squadron. Each vehicle may take dozer blades for free, and heavy support vehicles may be taken as elite choices.

Add in the Lumbering Behemoth thingy, and I'm good to go.

Instead I added it as a primary formation, would still kind of need a doctrine, maybe something like free recovey gear or iwnd(representing fw-drawn crews)

I also forgot a savage or death world doctrine with a laspistol and ccw free upgrade for infantry squads and vets; drawback of no heavy weapons(maybe an extra special instead along with maybe a limitation on transports).

I'd also like to see an AT buff to Vanquishers, and the ability to take a TC a a standalone tank, no need for a wingman.

Maybe:

Vanquisher Battle Cannon:

Range 72" // Str 8 // Ap 2 // Armourbane, Heavy 1, Vanquisher Shells, Advanced Targeters

Vanquisher Shells:
Vanquisher rounds are some of the deadliest anti-armour munitions ever created, featuring a depleted uranium shell, and a vortex detonator, causing a small implosion.
When the VBC causes a glancing hit, it removes 2 HP instead of 1. When the VBC causes a penetrating hit it causes 2 HP damage, and may re-roll on the damage table.

Advanced Targeters:
Vanquishers are rare, but powerful variants of Leman Russ Tank. To make up for their low numbers, Vanquishers are fitted with targeting equipment to boost their combat effectiveness.
The VBC may re-roll all 1's and 2's to hit.

You don't even need that.

Just pull the rules straight from the ABG book with points cost adjusted for the newer codex.

Co-ax heavy stubber and beast hunter shells makes it perfect.

Beast hunter and co-axial is nice, but the Vanq cannon is still a little lackluster on the tank-hunting side of things.

 Selym wrote:
Beast hunter and co-axial is nice, but the Vanq cannon is still a little lackluster on the tank-hunting side of things.

Makes me wish the vehicle/MC rules split would just go away...:/

Maybe something like this for the Vanquisher:

Vanquisher Cannon

STR 8 AP1, Armorbane, Heavy 1

Comes with built-in coaxial Heavy Stubber.

Depleted Uranium Rounds: Vanquisher cannons are fearsome anti-vehicle weapons. Any rolls of 1 or 2 on the Vehicle Damage table may be rerolled.

Tank Commanders in Vanquishers may take Beast Hunter Shells.

 Blacksails wrote:

 Selym wrote:
Beast hunter and co-axial is nice, but the Vanq cannon is still a little lackluster on the tank-hunting side of things.

Makes me wish the vehicle/MC rules split would just go away...:/

Putting it bluntly, Armourbane needs to be boosted to include MC/GC.

Rather than roll 2D6 armor penetration or anything like that, Armourbane weapons count as Strength D on a To Wound roll of a 6.

Introduce a vostroyan character.

Make Baneblade part of the codex proper.

Leman russ formation of 3 leman russes gets sponson weapons for free.

 triplegrim wrote:

Leman russ formation of 3 leman russes gets sponson weapons for free.

130 points for an Exterminator with hull HB and sponson Plasma Cannons or Meltas or Heavy Bolters.

*shudder*

I would love that

I've got a better idea - since IG likes spamming things, how about a 3-for-2 formation?

Buy 2 vehicles for any squadron, and get a third one for free.

 vipoid wrote:
I've got a better idea - since IG likes spamming things, how about a 3-for-2 formation?

Buy 2 vehicles for any squadron, and get a third one for free.

Trolltastic with Tank Commanders XD

The Vanquisher cannon needs the TL rule and the following:

HE shell: R72" S8 AP3 Ordnance1 Large Blast

AP shell: R72" S8 AP2 Ordnance1 Armourbane Tank Killer

Tank Killer - A Glancing or penetrating hit from the Vanquisher's AP shell inflicts 2HP worth of damage and has a +3 on the damage table


Add on to this the re-introduction of the Lumbering Behemoth rule for all Leman Russ and allow all of them to take coaxial Heavy Stubbers.

Jobs a good one

Coaxial grants TL on hit.
So the Vanq wouldn't need TL as standard.

I also wouldn't give it the battlcennon round, as that would make LRBT's redundant. Give it a:

MC-killr: Range 72" // Str 7 // Ap 3 // Ord 1, Small Blast, Annihilator Round

Annihilator Round: Any model with multiple wounds that is successfully wounded by this shot (before saving throws) takes D3 wounds. These may be saved.

I don't know, I think it raises an important question - why is it that Leman Russes only carry a single type of shell?

It just seems really weird that the IG change the tanks for different missions, rather than the shells.

Can the Demolisher really not fire eradicator or battle-cannon shells, even at reduced range or something?

I can maybe understand some variants being too specialised (like the Executioner or Punisher) to fire the shells of other leman russes. But, even then, surely they could carry some more specialised ammunition? e.g. Pask's punisher can choose to fire its main gun as a single large blast, rather than 3 shots. So, why can't all executioners do this? It's hardly something that can be due to the pilot. Likewise, his punisher fires rending shots (i.e. ones that are actually worth a damn)... um, can we have that ammunition for other Punishers and Exterminators?

 vipoid wrote:
I don't know, I think it raises an important question - why is it that Leman Russes only carry a single type of shell?

It just seems really weird that the IG change the tanks for different missions, rather than the shells.

Can the Demolisher really not fire eradicator or battle-cannon shells, even at reduced range or something?

I can maybe understand some variants being too specialised (like the Executioner or Punisher) to fire the shells of other leman russes. But, even then, surely they could carry some more specialised ammunition? e.g. Pask's punisher Executioner can choose to fire its main gun as a single large blast, rather than 3 shots. So, why can't all executioners do this? It's hardly something that can be due to the pilot. Likewise, his punisher fires rending shots (i.e. ones that are actually worth a damn)... um, can we have that ammunition for other Punishers and Exterminators?

I think Pask just stole a bunch of assault cannon ammunition for his punisher, and used a Tau-modified plasma cannon on his executioner.

 HANZERtank wrote:
Give all the special characters back.

I get they were probably removed because they were for regiments gw didn't produce so they stopped them to reduce third party armies.

So just release them as 'new' characters from cadia and catachan. With the newest black crusade there must be some notable people popping up on cadia. And make some new battles for the catachan to have some fun in.

Or just make more models for the other regiments.

Or just start remaking those regiments. I don't like the idea of Chenkov or Al'raheim being cadian or catachan. Maybe GW should remember that they created more regiments than jsut Cadians and Catachans. Next codex they'll probably say that Yarrick is now a Cadian.

Like I said, doctrines to represent each regiment would be nice, but serously, let's make mini-codexes for each regiment. I find that the IG is much more diverse than the Space Marines, so giving us special rules fr each regiment, and a couple of unique characters/weapons/wargear/units wouldn't be unappreciated. Also, for formations,

-One green tide one for Conscripts/platoons. The Imperial Guard is described as literally being numbered in the billions. Have a similiar one for tanks as well, once a tank is destroyed on a 3+ a tank of the same type drives up. If anybody thinks it's OP, just make it a 4+
-Scout group. Infantry Platoons and Scout Sentinels that get Scout or Outflank, Stealth, and some other benefeit like free Sniper Rifles up to one per squad, or pinning.
-Heavily armored group that gives the entire group one of the following at the begining of the game: Tank Hunters, Monster Hunters, or Shred. Also get BS 4 upgrades for free.
-Armored Battery. Any combination of Wyverns, Basilisks, Griffons, Collussi, or Medusas. Get free re-rolls on Scatter Dice. Or alternatively, if all the same vehicle, they use Apocalyptic Barrages.
-Steel Tide Mechanised Company. All the Chimeras are fast on the first turn of the game. Can't think of anything else at the moment
-Armored Hunter-Killer team Up to two squadrons of Armored Sentinels w/free veterean and HK missile upgrades. They nominate one unit at the begining of the game, and get free rerolls to hit, wound, or penetrate armor.

I'll add more as I come up with it.

Al'Raheim might as well have been Cadian or Catachan. Tallarn weren't "Arabs in Space" like some people think, they were inspired by Lawrence of Arabia and the British "Desert Rats" during WWII.

In any regards I would rather see new characters made for Scions, Bullgryn, and Veteran Squads than some silly HQ choice who effectively does nothing that isn't already a formation benefit or a Warlord trait.

 saithor wrote:
Also, for formations,

-One green tide one for Conscripts/platoons. The Imperial Guard is described as literally being numbered in the billions. Have a similiar one for tanks as well, once a tank is destroyed on a 3+ a tank of the same type drives up. If anybody thinks it's OP, just make it a 4+
-Scout group. Infantry Platoons and Scout Sentinels that get Scout or Outflank, Stealth, and some other benefeit like free Sniper Rifles up to one per squad, or pinning.
-Heavily armored group that gives the entire group one of the following at the begining of the game: Tank Hunters, Monster Hunters, or Shred. Also get BS 4 upgrades for free.
-Armored Battery. Any combination of Wyverns, Basilisks, Griffons, Collussi, or Medusas. Get free re-rolls on Scatter Dice. Or alternatively, if all the same vehicle, they use Apocalyptic Barrages.
-Steel Tide Mechanised Company. All the Chimeras are fast on the first turn of the game. Can't think of anything else at the moment
-Armored Hunter-Killer team Up to two squadrons of Armored Sentinels w/free veterean and HK missile upgrades. They nominate one unit at the begining of the game, and get free rerolls to hit, wound, or penetrate armor.

Human Wave Attack: Any Conscript Squad or Combined Platoon Squad that is completely destroyed may return to the game as per reserves on the next game turn, on a 3+.

Steel Tide Mech Company: All Chimeras are counted as Fast on the first turn, and may take H/K Missiles and Dozer Blades for free.

Armoured Battle Group: Leman Russ tanks may be taken as troop choices. [And some other benefit I can't think of right now. Don't say Lumbering Behemoth or point reductions, or Squadron benefits, they should come as standard]

 Kanluwen wrote:
Al'Raheim might as well have been Cadian or Catachan. Tallarn weren't "Arabs in Space" like some people think, they were inspired by Lawrence of Arabia and the British "Desert Rats" during WWII.

In any regards I would rather see new characters made for Scions, Bullgryn, and Veteran Squads than some silly HQ choice who effectively does nothing that isn't already a formation benefit or a Warlord trait.

Colonel Gunther Raddick
Colonel Gunther Raddick
Colonel Raddick is a 90 pt upgrade for your CCS. The CCS still has the normal options that it would normally have

Stats and Rules
WS 4 BS 4 S 3 T 3 I 4 A 2 W 3 Ld 9 Sv 5+/5++
Wargear
Refractor Field
Flak Armor
Power Sword
Refractor Field


Heirlooms of Conquest
Deathmark:
R 30” S 2 AP 2 Assault 3, Fleshbane, Precision Shot, Master-Crafted

Warlord Trait
Mechanized Assault
Once per Game drink your turn all non-heavy vehicles you control can move at cruising speed and can fire all weapons at full BS. Any passengers embarked in them can fire at full BS


Special Rules
Voice of Command
Senior Officer
Armored Commander: Any vehicle in Colonel Raddick’s Army can take a vox for 5pts. Any vehicle with a vox can receive orders from Colonel Raddick as if they were an infantry unit, and also get all the benefits of having a vox.

Full-Mechanized Army: Any troops choice in Colonel Raddick’s Army must take a Chimera as a Dedeicated Transport, and are allowed to even if they normally are not. So must Colonel Raddick’s squad

There, a character who does stuff that isn't in Warlord traits etc. As for what you suggested, that's good as well, but I think that pushing the other egiments would be good for both the players and for GW.

"Pushing the other regiments" might be good for the players, but not necessarily GW.

I would rather see them dump the old regiments from everything but lore, including the Catachans, and bring up a new regiment alongside of the Cadians. Maintaining those models, even in a format of "We have them in the warehouse and have the molds for them too" has to cost them a decent amount.

I have to agree with a lot of the changes that fellow guardsmen want.

*Put the Vulture in the codex. I have used it a couple of times and did QUITE well with them.
*Allow the Vendetta to be an upgrade to the Valkerie. It makes sense to cut the capacity down to allow the extra power source for the TLLC.
*Adding Sentinals to the foot units sounds good. Allow them to be the Heavy Weapon choice for the squad. I think it would be kinda cool seeing a walking heavy weapon in the middle of a squad. Heck, even have them as 2 seaters.
*Bring back Marbo, Harker and some of the other removed characters. I used Harker a few times, and he made a difference.
*It would be interesting to have a D strength Deathstrike.
*Allow the Hydras to target ground forces.
*Bring back the Lumbering Behemoth rule.

Some extra things I wouldnt mind seeing are......
*Allow tank formations to fire at different targets. It just makes sense to allow it. They could also give a bonus of some sort if they target the same target.
*In the Valks and Vendys, allow some sort of attack by the troops inside. I am not talking about the HB they already have. Perhaps a sniper or a grenade launcher could shoot from it, but only if in hover mode. I wouldnt suggest a rocket launcher though, since the back blast would incinerate the occupants of the troop hold.

I have suggest things earlier, but after playing in a tournament yesturday, we need a small piece of gear available to every vehicle.

Back in 5th ed., the Hydra had a piece of wargear that negated the saves of some skimmers and such, cant remember the word exactly. I played against the Ravenwing formation. Really, 2/3+ re-rollable jink saves. In the first round of shooting, I took out one bike. Now that was Pask (punisher gun boat) w/ Exterminator (las cannon, heavy bolters), 3 chimera, 4 plasma guns, 2 melta guns, Knight with thermal cannon, heavy stubber. 2nd turn, bring in the melta storm troop squad, plasma storm troop squad, vendetta, and scout sentinels (3 w/ auto cannons), removed two more bikes.

We need a piece of gear to negate re-roll jink saves or similar. I now know that in the face of the formations, the IG/AM codex is under powered.

Man it is so hilarious that so many people want forgeworld stuff in the codex, do you people really think it is going to happen? We even had forgeworld artillery units REMOVED from our 5th ed codex! What makes you think GW will put Vultures, Coax rules, or Beasthunter, or anything else like that in our codex? There's no money in doing it for them. While GW may be incredibly inept at making rules, they don't make them to make us the players happy. They make them to sell models. Why the hell would they put the Vulture or the Armored Battlegroup rules in a new codex, when they can make you spend even more money on the Imperial Armour book? It makes literally no sense in business terms. I just wish people would stop talking about it already because its making me bitter. It won't happen.

Yeah, we know.

You can still want and wish for something knowing full well it won't or likely won't happen.

The entire thread is theoretical.

Have some fun. Let loose.

We all know what's going to happen with the codex, but its nice to imagine a world where GW has the customer's best interest in mind.

 Blacksails wrote:

We all know what's going to happen with the codex, but its nice to imagine a world where GW has the customer's best interest in mind.

My IRL predictions so far:

-Yarrick becomes Cadian
-We get Formations, but they only serve to buff things we never use, like Ogryns, Ratlings and Rough Riders
-We /do/ get a codex LoW, but it's Creed
-Creed does not get his Taktikul Jeenyus thing from 5E
-We either don't get Regimental rules, or if we do, they miss the point entirely. i.e, Cadian Doctrine: Tempestus are infantry choices // ABG Doctrine: LRBT (and only LRBT) get free H/K missiles.
-Orders remain largely unchanged
-We gain a new vehicle that adds nothing we can't already do


Automatically Appended Next Post:
-GW stops listing Steel Legion and Vostroyan models, and denies their existence

I'm expecting no new art work, no new fluff, more pictures of models instead, an increase in the book's cost, random point shuffling that doesn't make a lot of sense (the bad will still be bad, the good will still be good, and some random unit will either be nerfed into oblivion or buffed into WTF territory), we'll get a super formation with a bunch of other formations, and I'd be surprised if we got a new kit. No bringing back anything that was previously cut.

That's what I'm expecting. Set the bar low enough and you'll hopefully be surprised is my approach this time around.

 Sledgehammer wrote:

From my experience veterans are really only useful for their special weapons. They don't put out enough firepower to ever be a threat to another infantry unit. The only exception to this are grots and nurglings. It is quite sad when your veterans aren't able to really take anything on without having 3 plasma guns/flamers/meltas. These guys should be able to engage in a fire fight through small arms fire and at least inflict some casualties. Right now a veteran squad is only as useful as its special weapons. A rifle should never be considered useless especially in the hands of a skilled user. This sentiment should also apply to storm troopers and really any model in the game.

I think this goes back to the problems with the lasgun - in that you need about 40 of them before they'll do anything worthwhile. With veterans being 10-man squads... it's not going to happen.

For me, it's just depressing when I can fire my veterans' special weapons... and might as well stop there. Firing their lasguns is usually an exercise in time-wasting.

 vipoid wrote:

 Sledgehammer wrote:

From my experience veterans are really only useful for their special weapons. They don't put out enough firepower to ever be a threat to another infantry unit. The only exception to this are grots and nurglings. It is quite sad when your veterans aren't able to really take anything on without having 3 plasma guns/flamers/meltas. These guys should be able to engage in a fire fight through small arms fire and at least inflict some casualties. Right now a veteran squad is only as useful as its special weapons. A rifle should never be considered useless especially in the hands of a skilled user. This sentiment should also apply to storm troopers and really any model in the game.

I think this goes back to the problems with the lasgun - in that you need about 40 of them before they'll do anything worthwhile. With veterans being 10-man squads... it's not going to happen.

For me, it's just depressing when I can fire my veterans' special weapons... and might as well stop there. Firing their lasguns is usually an exercise in time-wasting.

Exactly. In order to combat this In my codex I gave special "Assault Veterans" Shredder lasguns which fluff wise have a much higher rate of fire, are 18" range assault 2 shred and are all equipped with camo cloaks and have infiltrate. Their battlefield utility is to outflank enemy infantry positions and then take them out or dwindle them down before they can get into cover. Wheter the weapon is assault 2 shred, or assault 3 the effect is the same against t5 sv 3+ it is just that you are more likely to have additional outliers in assault 3 vs assault 2 shred.

The primary problem with the guard and its inability to effectively switch between a more "elite" composition and a "normal" composition is the d6 system.

I would love to see Ogryns as an optional choice for Command Squads/Platoon Command Squads with an ability to always take wounds/fight in a challenge for the commanding officer like the old days. Definitely concur with the BIG price drop, and powermauls should be a free option. They just aren't that insane given all the powerfists, etc. in the game these days.