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I suspected as much. They're certainly due anyways.

My interest in 40k is hanging by a thread these days, and seeing what they do with the IG will be a big factor in how I carry on in this particular game.

That said, the rest of the codices still leave me scratching my head with what the hell the designers were thinking.

GW is doing HH and CSM next, likely Daemons after that, with BA and DA tobfollow soon enough after.

IG just don't fit into that without a 30k regiment in plastic.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
GW is doing HH and CSM next, likely Daemons after that, with BA and DA tobfollow soon enough after.

IG just don't fit into that without a 30k regiment in plastic.

Um yeah...

There is absolutely nothing suggesting that BA or DA are coming soon. Hell, Dark Angels just got updated a few months back.

They just need to borrow a page from FW's renegade list, at least for the platoon squads. The overall stats of the units are fine, except stormtroopers need to be even cheaper to compete with things like Skiitari.

There is not much you can change about the individual Guard units, but I think you can find a lot of power from formations.

Stuff like each platoon of 3+ squads gets a free heavy weapon team, 5+ squad platoons get two free heavy weapon teams.

Steal interlocking tactics from 30K Ultras, giving pseudo-preferred enemy to units that shoot at a target that has already been shot at by a friendly unit.

Russ squadrons form a wall of iron and smoke, so either +1 cover or -1 to enemy gun S, something.

A squadron of hellhounds combining for an apocalyptic flamer template.

More orders.

TBH, I like "free" stuff more than bonus rules. I rarely forget "free" models, but I can easily forget special rules.

 Blacksails wrote:
Why is anyone taking T-W seriously?

Seriously, that's either some next level trolling or a deep misunderstanding of game design and balance.

Seconded. I'm not sure why people are letting themselves get trolled like this, although I commend the fine trolling form, it's a dying art.

HandofMars wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Why is anyone taking T-W seriously?

Seriously, that's either some next level trolling or a deep misunderstanding of game design and balance.

Seconded. I'm not sure why people are letting themselves get trolled like this, although I commend the fine trolling form, it's a dying art.

Thirded, although we are trying to re-educate him, or at least find the reasons for the prejudice.

He made this thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/669705.page

He's just trollin'.

Hasn't posted since.

Hopefully he was banned

I'd like to see regular Russ and the vanquisher get combined so you have one Russ that can choose he or at rounds like modern tanks. The vanquisher is too much of a gamble to take at the moment, especially without twin linking

Something similar to how the HH railgun works? Might be interesting.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Yarrick is just a man with a Power Klaw. He's not comparable to a Knight Titan, unless he comes with a free Baneblade.

Yes, all the yes, give him the Fortress of Arrogance please. Baneblade chariot! (obviously you are paying for the baneblade but it would justify the LOD slot).

Am I the only one who really wants to see the option for playing pistol/ccw Feral World Guardsmen?

I'd honestly just use the Renegades & Heretics, but they don't get any form of Roughriders, nor a proper Radical Inquisitor to blindly lead them down the path of heresy.

You're not the only one, although I want them to be BS3 A2 Conscripts.

Experiment 626 wrote:
Am I the only one who really wants to see the option for playing pistol/ccw Feral World Guardsmen?

I'd honestly just use the Renegades & Heretics, but they don't get any form of Roughriders, nor a proper Radical Inquisitor to blindly lead them down the path of heresy.

What about allying with Inquisition and/or Regular guard (Maybe Krieg if you want rough riders)? I know Heretics are Come the Apocalyse to guard, but if you doesnt include any Chaos-specific items like Marks, Marines or Chamions, it can by founded by Fluff and played as Battle Brothers. Or as Allies of Convinience, because of their feral nature.
I would have no problem playing like that.

pax_imperialis wrote:
I'd like to see regular Russ and the vanquisher get combined so you have one Russ that can choose he or at rounds like modern tanks. The vanquisher is too much of a gamble to take at the moment, especially without twin linking

Give the regular Russ AP2 shots without a blast and without the Armourbane special rule.
Give the Vanquisher the ability to fire small blasts and give its AP shell a +4 on the damage table. Also give the AP shells ID as well.

Now you have your regular tank which can, in a pinch, deal with enemy tanks with a slight chance of an insta kill if it manages to pen and a specialist tank killer which will murder-feth enemy armour but is not as good against enemy infantry.

The Vanquisher cannon used to be an upgrade to the Battle Tank way back in the day, giving it the additional armourbane rounds on top of the standard ordnance round. If they go back to this, they would need new rules for the standard battle tank (since no one would take it otherwise), like renaming them Conquerors and making them fast, maybe?

Keeping the current designations as is, I would like this:

NEW SCULPT.

Battle Tank/Demolisher need Lumbering Behemoth, so they aren't forced to snap-fire their other weapons.

Vanquisher needs co-axial option and AP1 on the main gun. Maybe even causing 2 or D3 hull points? Lascannon sponsons would also be nice, but very unlikely.

Executioner cannon needs to go back to not having gets hot, it's annoying to HAVE to get preferred enemy on it for it not to melt itself to death (which it for some reason does more frequently than guardsmen, since vehicles have no sort of armour save).

Punisher needs to be S6 AP - Rending, with only 15 shots.

Eradicator needs to have two shots on the main gun.

Exterminator... I got nothing, it's 4 autocannons, which is pretty sad main armament for a heavy tank. Maybe make them more like the Aiolos, with S8 or Sunder?

So we're basically doing Frag / Krak?

I'd make the secondary mode much more marginal.

Battlecannon
- 72" S8 AP3 5" Blast Ordnance (HE)
- 72" S9 AP2 Ordnance (AP)

Vanquisher Battlecannon
- 96" S8 AP2 Ordnance Armorbane Fleshbane (AP)
- 96" S7 AP4 3" Blast (HE)

Vanquisher Tank - Vanquisher Battlecannon is Twin-linked due to Co-ax Autocannon

Ooohhh... Shiny....

Besides the usual power creep, if IG had some drastic point reductions across the board and were given the ability to shoot even more than they do currently I think they would be better off. Bringing them up to par with decurion formations however would probably take a re-write of the entire codex.

I wouldn't mind the s3 lasguns if they became salvo weapons. They either need to be able to fire more or be bumped up to s4 ap- or s3 ap4. The guard seem to be designed around the idea of quantity over quality. Since Tau/Eldar are obviously the best with quality weaponry, guardsmen should be able to just drown enemies (more effectively) with small arms fire if they are going to continue to have some of the weakest weapons in the game.

Perhaps give the vanquisher lance to make it an actual tank hunter, give tanks the ability to upgrade their WS +1 and allow them to fire all their weapons again after movement. Maybe even give them one more HP and suddenly the Leman Russ becomes a threat again.

Take the minimum range off of the basilisks, the model alone makes me want to field them but they nearly become useless after the first turn. Make orgryns a competent melee unit since the guard crumbles in most melee situations. Make stormtroopers worth taking.

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
Besides the usual power creep, if IG had some drastic point reductions across the board and were given the ability to shoot even more than they do currently I think they would be better off. Bringing them up to par with decurion formations however would probably take a re-write of the entire codex.

THAT'S THE POINT!!!

Getting the points cost down and the shootiness up to match Decurion is all that I ask for.

The units need a power buff, not a cost reduction, in general. I don't want to have to bring 50% more stuff every game, just because GW can't write for gak...

There's only so much you can fit on a table / in a carrier box...

Suggestions that seem to work:
>Give all infantry a permanent +1 to cover
>Drop the costs of LR Tanks by about 10 pts or so each, add LB
>Give the Battlecannon and Vanquisher a shot buff, the Vanq gets twin-linked
>Drop the Basilisk to 120 ppm
>Up the Wyverns to 75 ppm
>Squadron bonuses
>Drop the costs of Hellhound (and variants) significantly

 Selym wrote:
The units need a power buff, not a cost reduction, in general. I don't want to have to bring 50% more stuff every game, just because GW can't write for gak...

There's only so much you can fit on a table / in a carrier box...

Suggestions that seem to work:
>Give all infantry a permanent +1 to cover
>Drop the costs of LR Tanks by about 10 pts or so each, add LB
>Give the Battlecannon and Vanquisher a shot buff, the Vanq gets twin-linked
>Drop the Basilisk to 120 ppm
>Up the Wyverns to 75 ppm
>Squadron bonuses
>Drop the costs of Hellhound (and variants) significantly

Pretty much this. Give the Ogryns/Bullgryns some buffs too and I'm happy as can be.

 Selym wrote:
The units need a power buff, not a cost reduction, in general. I don't want to have to bring 50% more stuff every game, just because GW can't write for gak...

There's only so much you can fit on a table / in a carrier box...

If I want to bring uber elite T3 models, I have a zillion points of Eldars for that. And even then, their best models are T8, not T3. If Guard are not the shooty horde to contrast the the Orky fighty horde, then nobody fills that role in 40k, which would make no sense. Guard need to be cheaper for sure; if some of the cheapness is offset with more (better) shootiness, I'd be OK with that. And definitely, Guard need some kind of trick that offsets their crappy Sv5+, like, I dunno, Cameoline for everybody?

I can carry the vast bulk of my IG in a 2' duffel bag: 200 Guardsmen, 9 Chimera / Russ, and 2 Baneblades. I could fit my remaining dozen vehicles & Leviathan Crusader in a 2nd bag, no problem. Thing is, that's way more than any regular IG game would be. Heck, it's probably enough for 3x 2,250-pt games. Even if the IG points got cut in half across the board (won't happen), I think I could deploy 2,000 new pts (4,000 current points) in a 6 SF DZ, assuming, that I have Vehicles and/or Reserves.

Dont forget the option for veteran tank crew. If we can have veteran infantry then we need BS 4 veteran tanks.

 Selym wrote:

>Give all infantry a permanent +1 to cover

With how much stuff Reduces or Ignores Cover? Naaaaaaah.

It should be called "Entrenched" and Guardsmen should get +1 to their armor save while they can claim a Cover save.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Selym wrote:
The units need a power buff, not a cost reduction, in general. I don't want to have to bring 50% more stuff every game, just because GW can't write for gak...

There's only so much you can fit on a table / in a carrier box...

If I want to bring uber elite T3 models, I have a zillion points of Eldars for that. And even then, their best models are T8, not T3. If Guard are not the shooty horde to contrast the the Orky fighty horde, then nobody fills that role in 40k, which would make no sense. Guard need to be cheaper for sure; if some of the cheapness is offset with more (better) shootiness, I'd be OK with that. And definitely, Guard need some kind of trick that offsets their crappy Sv5+, like, I dunno, Cameoline for everybody?

I can carry the vast bulk of my IG in a 2' duffel bag: 200 Guardsmen, 9 Chimera / Russ, and 2 Baneblades. I could fit my remaining dozen vehicles & Leviathan Crusader in a 2nd bag, no problem. Thing is, that's way more than any regular IG game would be. Heck, it's probably enough for 3x 2,250-pt games. Even if the IG points got cut in half across the board (won't happen), I think I could deploy 2,000 new pts (4,000 current points) in a 6 SF DZ, assuming, that I have Vehicles and/or Reserves.

Heck kinda bag are you using? And 5 ppm is already about as low as the standard IG trooper needs to be. You can have a shooty horde at that ppm cost, but the IG need a straight up power boost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Selym wrote:

>Give all infantry a permanent +1 to cover

With how much stuff Reduces or Ignores Cover? Naaaaaaah.

It should be called "Entrenched" and Guardsmen should get +1 to their armor save while they can claim a Cover save.

And suddenly Grav-Cannons affect the IG, and can have all their saves removed more easily... :/

 Selym wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Selym wrote:

>Give all infantry a permanent +1 to cover

With how much stuff Reduces or Ignores Cover? Naaaaaaah.

It should be called "Entrenched" and Guardsmen should get +1 to their armor save while they can claim a Cover save.

And suddenly Grav-Cannons affect the IG, and can have all their saves removed more easily... :/

Grav weapons could easily get an FAQ that it goes off the unmodified armor save of the target; meaning Guard(and anything that has rules like the Bullgryn Slab Shields rule where more than one model in B2B gains +1 to their armor save) become a little less viable for Gravspam.

Going by GW's record, there aren't going to be any more FAQ's.

GW could have just as easily made an FAQ stating:

"We made a minor error in the AM codex, in that we accidentally wrote the wrong points costs for everything. Just half the costs of all base units."

 Kanluwen wrote:

Grav weapons could easily get an FAQ that it goes off the unmodified armor save of the target; meaning Guard(and anything that has rules like the Bullgryn Slab Shields rule where more than one model in B2B gains +1 to their armor save) become a little less viable for Gravspam.

A FAQ? And what may that be? Can't remember, haven't heard of them in ages

And sadly I suspect we'll never hear of them again.