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Then you have the Super Doomsday weapons and on that point, Star Wars has feth-tons whereas 40k has the odd few.
lol No! You are very ignorant of 40k lore if you think they are lacking in doomsday weapons.
40k is bristling with doomsday weapons. Any ship that can fire torpedos can deliver Life Eater virus or Cyclonic torpedos. All the SW doomsday weapons can be counted on 2 hands, and there were never more than 2-3 in existence at once.
A half dozen Cyclonic torpedoes turn planets into asteroid fields.
A single canister of life eater virus can, over a few weeks, turn a planet into a lifeless husk. Dozens of canisters accomplish the same in mere hours.
Then there is the Nova Cannon. A standard armament for one of the most common Cruiser designs. It fires a projectile at near the speed of light which explodes with the force of a small super Nova, covering a hundreds of thousands of square kilometers radius around the point of detonation.
Plus, any 40k fleet boasts enough firepower to simply glass a planet with their mundane weaponry. As opposed to SW ships which have firepower comparable to century old battleships.
On the rarity level of SW super weapons, there are some truly terrifying things. There is an Ark Mechanicus which has a gun that shoots black holes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/18 17:20:51
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
40K has plenty of doomsday weapons (Exterminatus devices, Blackstone Fortresses, the Celestial Orrery, Orks, Tyranids, Space Wolf keggers, Assholetep...) while SW has them being awe-inspiring and terrible, they generally only exist 1 at a time.
Now, that said, certain aspects of the SW universe do give them a slight edge. The 40K folks, of course, lose out on the element of surprise and ambush at every turn, because SW has Admiral Ackbar, and Admiral Ackbar always knows when it's a trap.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
You have the normal stuff (such as the stormtroopers etc.) which are underpowered compared to the 40k Universe and wouldn't be able to stop virtually any race from 40k.
Then you have the Super Doomsday weapons and on that point, Star Wars has feth-tons whereas 40k has the odd few.
Now, saying everything versus everything .... I'm going to have to say it's a draw. The Star Wars Universe is filled with so many Doomsday weapons that even if the 40k Universe was steaming away and capturing every planet from the Star Wars Universe --- the Star Wars Universe would just go "feth it" and start blowing up everything. It would be mutual annihilation.
What doomsday weapons? [/quote
He's probably thinking EU with the Galaxy Gun, Sun Crusher, multiple Death Stars, super ships, and all that jazz.
Alot of pre-retcon every star wars book that exists VS debates were based on the fact that the Star Wars galaxy had the ability to make as many of these as they wanted given time( at least true of the big ass ships and death stars... Not so much the others)
Unfortunately even if that were true this debate is run solely off the two official clone wars series and the movies. So yeah in its current iteration Star Wars has no chance.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And again since we don't have EU backing up the enormous firepower if Star Wars weapons and fleets we have no choice but to go off of the visuals we get in the movies. Which of course only had one visually impressive weapon of note: The death Star laser.
If EU were a thing then the firepower actually outperforms 40k
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/18 18:06:14
Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.
‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson
If we were to look at before the current era of star wars, we would also have to look at the previous era of 40k, which outside of 30k, we know very little about.
Does the SW universe have any sort of defense against teleporters? If Logan Grimnar can teleport himself and his personal guard onto a greyknight ship, slaughter everyone and leave, I doubt many ships in the SW universe would stand a chance from that sort of boarding party.
In 40k, that's just another armament on most capitol ships.
They actually suggest how long it would take the *entire* imperial fleet to glass a planet. Child's play for most individual capital ships in 40k, even without using their rounds designed to do just that in a single shot.
Jedi might be scary, but all 40k are prepared for facing Psykers, which are like Jedi, but much, much stronger.
Whatever SW can do, 40k can do better.
Aside from a happily-ever-after, of course.
Automatically Appended Next Post: If its all eras of SW, why only the 30k and 40k era of 40k? Eldar Empire, War in Heaven, Old Ones? The last 10k years are probably the *weakest* the universe has ever been!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/18 18:30:43
Also the only real chance SW would have against things like the Tyranids would be World Eater Droids.
In fact the more I look at it all of SWs advantages are Gteater maneuvering/travel, the ability to create fleets of star craft easily, and the ability to mass-produce war droids if various types.
Seriously if SWs wasn't so A.I. Phobic they probably could win easily within a matter of years.
Ill type up 2 scenarios using only The movies as my sources of the battle and let you say what you will.
(P.S. You forgot one BIG detail of the battle that might be your downfall the void between galaxies is huge. It takes SWs ships to traverse it. Any fleet from the Milky Ways would take 100s I not 1,000s to cross)
Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.
‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson
Then you have the Super Doomsday weapons and on that point, Star Wars has feth-tons whereas 40k has the odd few.
lol No! You are very ignorant of 40k lore if you think they are lacking in doomsday weapons.
40k is bristling with doomsday weapons. Any ship that can fire torpedos can deliver Life Eater virus or Cyclonic torpedos. All the SW doomsday weapons can be counted on 2 hands, and there were never more than 2-3 in existence at once.
A half dozen Cyclonic torpedoes turn planets into asteroid fields.
A single canister of life eater virus can, over a few weeks, turn a planet into a lifeless husk. Dozens of canisters accomplish the same in mere hours.
Then there is the Nova Cannon. A standard armament for one of the most common Cruiser designs. It fires a projectile at near the speed of light which explodes with the force of a small super Nova, covering a hundreds of thousands of square kilometers radius around the point of detonation.
Plus, any 40k fleet boasts enough firepower to simply glass a planet with their mundane weaponry. As opposed to SW ships which have firepower comparable to century old battleships.
On the rarity level of SW super weapons, there are some truly terrifying things. There is an Ark Mechanicus which has a gun that shoots black holes.
There are quite a few of 40k weapons that are terrifying not all forgetting how powerful the Eldar are as well.
Also the only real chance SW would have against things like the Tyranids would be World Eater Droids.
In fact the more I look at it all of SWs advantages are Gteater maneuvering/travel, the ability to create fleets of star craft easily, and the ability to mass-produce war droids if various types.
Seriously if SWs wasn't so A.I. Phobic they probably could win easily within a matter of years.
Ill type up 2 scenarios using only The movies as my sources of the battle and let you say what you will.
(P.S. You forgot one BIG detail of the battle that might be your downfall the void between galaxies is huge. It takes SWs ships to traverse it. Any fleet from the Milky Ways would take 100s I not 1,000s to cross)
EU isn't canon and is just fan spank.
WE established this pretty early on that the EU was pretty dumb.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/18 18:56:36
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
The Webway cares not one whit about how distant things are. Sure, there won't be gates in the SW galaxy at the start, but SW is by no means faster at travel than *all* 40k forces.
EU isn't canon and is just fan spank.
WE established this pretty early on that the EU was pretty dumb
Yeah your right so what is this whole "all eras " thing? EU doesn't exist so the only in-universe "real star wars stuff is the clone wars and the galactic empire which is only 30years apart.
Someone said something about all of 30k + 40k + war in heaven. That is millions of years difference.
Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.
‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson
But just to be sure I'm on track before I start any real counterarguments.
We are in the post-republic mid-empire era in which luke and gang are still around and the first death star is already destroyed correct/ the eve of 13th Black Crusade correct?
Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.
‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson
I brought up the point that, if we're comparing the 2 settings in their "current" incarnation, even restricting SW to the on-screen presentation....
... SW is significantly fethed, because the Force is becoming weaker, the Jedi less-talented, and the devastation of what amounts to (in the end) something like 40 years of war have stretched resources in major population centers to their limits.
And then the Vong arrived.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
At which point we all turn to look at Palpatine, fold our arms, arch our eyebrows and say together:
"Good job breaking it, 'hero'."
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
I was a little inspired by this crossover concept, so I've put my answer in the form of a lil' story - wall of text to follow:
Spoiler:
Fade in post-opening sequence. A night sky filled with strange stars is lit by bursts of streaking light and distant explosions. Pan down to the ground, where we see an impressive gathering of the Galactic Imperial military - AT-ATs, flanked by smaller scout walkers for support, with numerous foot soldiers and armoured transports scurrying around their feet as they advance across an ashen plain.
Cut to inside the cockpit of the lead AT-AT, the acting Imperial commander scanning the dark horizon through the viewport as his mighty walker lurches forward. He reviews his orders on a dimly lit screen - engage advancing enemy ground forces on open terrain, and break the heart of their formation before they can move to threaten the planet's shielded orbital weaponry. His support is limited due to the rapid nature of his army's deployment, not to mention the colossal battle raging in orbit. Despite this, the sheer size of the force he commands is considerable, and he expects the enemy to be caught unawares by the counter-attack. It's hardly the first battle he has fought against an unknown foe, although the fact that his forward scouts failed to check in after confirming the enemy's position in the valley ahead troubles him.
A warning klaxon sounds - he snaps from his reverie and demands a report. A pilot stammers back that there is a return contact on long-range sensors. The commander demands a visual, and the viewport zooms to the horizon, switching to night-vision for a clear view of the enemy.
The commander's face goes white, sweat beading on his forehead. Through the viewport he sees an upright walker, illuminated in hazy green and white. It is easily twenty metres taller than his own AT-AT and considerably more bulky. The vaguely humanoid machine seems to leer back at him, it's 'face' styled in the grim visage of a leering skull. Coming into better focus, he sees it's hull is festooned with baroque adornments and religious iconography, a stark contrast to the spartan trappings of the Imperial walkers. He also sees it's armament - it's left arm a cannon barrel that could span several city blocks, the right a gatling weapon of equally monstrous size, in addition to a multitude of other cannon and missile launchers scattered across it's hull. It was far from the biggest war machine he'd seen - he had the privilege of seeing a super star destroyer in dry dock once - but it was certainly one of the most intimidating military land engines he had laid eyes on.
And it was not alone. A pair of similarly monstrous walkers flanked it to either side, smaller and more squat but sporting similar weaponry to their larger companion. And around their feet, a horde of men - nay, a tide - surged forwards in a near-solid mass that could have been hundreds of thousands of soldiers at a glance, though the commander feared the darkness obscured the true vastness of the enemy's infantry. Behind them came columns of almost crude-looking, boxy tanks, and long barrelled artillery platforms moving into place.
The comms in the cockpit became a flurry of noise as the other officers in the task force began desperately demanding orders from their commander. Their resolve was clearly shaken, as was his own. He paused a moment, as he shook away the terror creeping up from the back of his mind. Grasping the comm relay, he started to signal the attack.
Before he could speak, a flash of light flickered in the giant walker's left arm, sprouting outwards to become an incandescent beam so bright the valley was lit as if day had broken for but a moment. It lanced into the AT-AT to his right, which was immediately swallowed whole by the beam. A shockwave followed, the sound catching up to the energy blast a heartbeat later, and the cockpit was bucked and rattled by the colossal report of the weapon. After the initial shock passed, the commander grabbed his comms relay off the floor and turned to his companion walker to demand a damage report - but quickly saw there was no need. All that remained was the hollowed core of it's rear end, it's armour melted and peeled back like burning paper, hot red liquid running in rivulets down what remained of the legs. The rest was simply gone, atomized by the energy of the blast. There was no secondary explosion - any fuel had simply disintegrated without ever igniting - but the impact of the attack had still left a good portion of his battle line utterly flattened. At a glance, it appeared hundreds of his soldiers had died from the engine's opening volley.
As if exulting in it's kill, the enemy colossus emitted an booming roar, a bestial noise like the keening wail of a bloodthirsty bird of prey, so loud the commander could feel his bones rattle even inside the cockpit. The comms were practically screaming now, all semblance of order lost in the face of weaponry of such magnitude, and the terror of such a war machine bearing down on them reducing even his most reliable veterans to quivering cowards.
Regaining his composure, the commander saw the prudence in retreat. But with such a force bearing down on them, he knew his army would be obliterated were it to flee wholesale. Resigned to his fate, he signalled what remained of his heavy walkers and ordered an attack, though not all of his officers complied. They would sell themselves dearly to these beast machines and, with a bit of luck, maybe the larger part of the task force could be salvaged to fight under the defences at the orbital weapons platforms.
Cut to the command post of the Warlord titan, it's princeps drumming his fingers on his control panel. He sighs, feeling the satisfaction of his engine at taking first blood creep into his consciousness. As his sensori reports the enemy forces to be in retreat, the princeps scoffs. "Fleeing after a single shot from the volcano cannon! Their collaboration with the foul Xenos has clearly weakened their resolve. This will be even easier than I thought."
"Princeps, several of the enemy engines still advance on us. They are firing!"
The crew braces for impact. A moment of silence follows as the red energy blasts pulse harmlessly against the crackling void shields.
A little embarassed, the princeps rights himself and adjusts his collar. "Admirable bravery from these ones, I'll give them that. Moderati, let's wrap this up, I'm going to put the kettle on."
Hardly a fair matchup in this case but I couldn't help myself
I'm more than a bit biased to be fair, but I'm with the 40k crowd on this one.
Ok so our technology is pretty limited compared to the OPness that is EU fanon Er I mean fiction, but never fear! We have a chance yet at not being utterly annihilated. This is typed up on my phone so don't judge too harshly!
Scenario 1: Star Wars invasion of the 40k galaxy.
Spoiler:
Now since we don't have any real idea of how long it would take for the hyperdrive capable ships to traverse the galaxy span but 1-2 years sounds about right.
First contact: First contact would undoubtedly occur from an imperial exploratory fleet that would relay the information of the furthest edges of the milky way. After these ships come back reporting the relatively undefended and easily convinced populations of agri-worlds and lowly populated planets ripe for the picking with promises if an entire
The emperor then would hastily decide to send a fleet of about 5 or 6 Star Destroyers to conquer the system.
The results are disastrous.
After several relatively easy campaigns the Imperial fleet eventually was detected by the Imperium of Man's forces and eventually several guard regiments and a locally stationed Space Marine chapter were activated in order to stop and destroy the forces. The battle is hard fought in both the ground and space with hard-fought ground siege-warfare betweenheavily entrenched forces and with "point-blank" space maneuvers making the IoM ships less than optimally effective.
However the Star Wars fleet is outmatched and sent scurrying back with tales of men who can charge your lines in the blink of an eye and of whispers of the horrors and monsters that lie within the far away galaxy.
The Emperor would then be faced with a decision: Either to give up and admit defeat or to dedicate fully to the effort with every resource available.
If the first option is picked then nothing happens. No further conflict ever erupts and the IoM declares the the Empire to have been destroyed.
If the second option is chosen first the Emperor would have to end the war between the Rebellion and the Empire at least temporarily. He can use propaganda to his advantage and claim that the " barbarians" were planning an invasion force to conquer all of the known galaxy and to exterminate them all.( which of course isn't really stretching the truth that far).
The war efforts would move to create new death star platforms in order to help with the war effort and to patrol the SW galaxies' borders. ( we can average about 1 death star fully built every 3 years so not sure very large number).
Massive ships such as the Super Star Destroyer would be needed to be built Just to help TRANSPORT the armies safely inter-galactically.
Cheaper methods of mass produced troops would be necessary in order to even think of competing with the numbers 40k has so the galactic wide construction of B-2, B-3, and Super Batyle Droids would begin in order to supplement the flesh and blood soldiers fighting on the ground at a much more cost / time efficient rate.
The build at this point is massive, and the drafting of almost entire species into the Imperial navy/army has begun to show just how huge the SW universe is.
By the time the first wave of forces is complete and sent over the pond the SW forces have returned to their initial scouting location nearly 10 years later with over 1,000 Star Destroyers, Several Billion battle droids, 1 Death Star(mkii) 1 or 2 Super Star Destroyers, and over 500million flesh and blood Stormtroopers with support.
These same numbers can be expected to come in at an interval of every 1 to 2 years minus the death star which would be every 3 years.
Despite all these forces the SW army would only manage to capture a few dozen systems before the IoM , Tau, Tyranids, etc. puts a hard stop on their progress. Droid foundaries would be built on captured planets in order to supplement the fast dwindling invasion forces troops using enslaved IoM humans to work/build them as well as forcing them into military service.
Undoubtedly there will be a large number of SW forces that would be corrupted by chaos and would further halt any ongoing operations.
Results:
Stalemate: The Star Wars galaxy is only able to take a very small piece of the Milky Way before being stopped in their tracks by the various factions they face. This is 40k at its core, it takes everything you got to gain even the slightest bit if ground and even though you've devoted everything you got into it your still just barely holding on.
Pt2 coming up: The 40k invasion of the Star Wars universe( here's a hint they are fethed)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well I'm exhausted for now I will try to write the ROFL stomp that is 40k invading star wars later. Star Wars would have no chance without some kind of massive military buildup.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/18 21:43:22
Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.
‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson
The EU is not fanon. They were, once upon a time, published under the blessing of LucasArts. Only recently have they been deemed non-canon... but, then, so has just about everything else other than the movies and 2 TV shows.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
It was a joke. I was personally against the decision Disney made as I loved many of the books personally. Just trying to keep things light hearted that's all.
Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.
‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson
Also the only real chance SW would have against things like the Tyranids would be World Eater Droids.
In fact the more I look at it all of SWs advantages are Gteater maneuvering/travel, the ability to create fleets of star craft easily, and the ability to mass-produce war droids if various types.
Seriously if SWs wasn't so A.I. Phobic they probably could win easily within a matter of years.
Ill type up 2 scenarios using only The movies as my sources of the battle and let you say what you will.
(P.S. You forgot one BIG detail of the battle that might be your downfall the void between galaxies is huge. It takes SWs ships to traverse it. Any fleet from the Milky Ways would take 100s I not 1,000s to cross)
They could have a hundred World Eaters, it wouldn't matter. Star Wars' level of firepower is pathetic compared to 40k, along with their engagement ranges. Plus Tyranids would be liable to consume the World Eaters themselves for the iron inside them.
And no, the firepower in the EU doesn't even remotely surpass 40K. FFS, do you even know what the difference between kilotons, megatons, gigatons, and teratons are?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/18 22:21:56
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
(hastily googles all the terms you just listed including FFS)
Yes of course I do!
Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.
‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson
DoomShakaLaka wrote: (hastily googles all the terms you just listed including FFS)
Yes of course I do!
Then you would understand Star Wars is far behind the yields of 40k ships lol. A fleet of strike cruisers can mass-scatter a planet sans cyclonic torpedoes, simply by dumping lance fire into it.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
Asherian Command wrote: EU isn't canon and is just fan spank.
WE established this pretty early on that the EU was pretty dumb.
So then what exactly is your justification for including 40k's equivalent of the EU? After all, all the novels in 40k are just "fan spank" and the only official source is the tabletop game. So looks like all the high-end 40k stuff is gone and Star Wars wins by almost as much of a margin as that Culture civilian ship.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Asherian Command wrote: EU isn't canon and is just fan spank.
WE established this pretty early on that the EU was pretty dumb.
So then what exactly is your justification for including 40k's equivalent of the EU? After all, all the novels in 40k are just "fan spank" and the only official source is the tabletop game. So looks like all the high-end 40k stuff is gone and Star Wars wins by almost as much of a margin as that Culture civilian ship.
You might actually want to bother looking up GW's stance before spouting nonsense. The TT isn't "official", everything and nothing is, simultaneously. Star Wars meanwhile has a rigid system that has punted the EU into an alternate universe and by and large rendered the material irrelevant, as it is no longer being updated.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
Asherian Command wrote: EU isn't canon and is just fan spank.
WE established this pretty early on that the EU was pretty dumb.
So then what exactly is your justification for including 40k's equivalent of the EU? After all, all the novels in 40k are just "fan spank" and the only official source is the tabletop game. So looks like all the high-end 40k stuff is gone and Star Wars wins by almost as much of a margin as that Culture civilian ship.
Not true. BL is a part of GW, so BL are as official as they come. Besides, GW's stance on canon is that canon does not matter and you should make up your own mind. BL novels are far from being 40k's equivalent to the Star Wars EU (this would be more the Dawn of War games etc.)
But even if you take away the novels, 40k wins by such a huge landslide it isn't even funny. As said, In SW, a weapon capable of destroying a planet is the most destructive weapon ever built and has to be built in a huge, unwieldy and vulnerable space station. In 40k, a single spaceship is enough to destroy planets and this happens quite often. Furthermore, 40k factions such as the Dark Eldar or Necrons have the capability to destroy not just planets, but to extinguish entire stars like it is nothing.
40k is on a much higher power level than SW. After all, over the top is what 40k is all about. Just compare a SW laser blaster with a 40k autorifle for example.
Wyzilla wrote: You might actually want to bother looking up GW's stance before spouting nonsense. The TT isn't "official", everything and nothing is, simultaneously. Star Wars meanwhile has a rigid system that has punted the EU into an alternate universe and by and large rendered the material irrelevant, as it is no longer being updated.
I'm not talking about the stance of the publishers, I'm talking about Asherian Command's dismissal of the EU as "fan spank" and "pretty dumb" as if his dislike of it has anything to do with whether or not it is canon.
As for the supposed "removal" of the EU in Star Wars, that's kind of overstated. Disney has specifically said that they won't be following the story of the EU and consider themselves free to contradict EU material, but it still exists. For example, FFG continues to use EU material in their Star Wars games.
Official =/= canon. For example, Star Trek canon policy (set by the IP owner) is that the movies and TV shows are canon and nothing else is. So there are lots of officially-licensed Star Trek novels but they often contradict each other and there's very little attempt to incorporate them into a single unified world. Each author gets their own little non-canon copy of the universe to work with, and the canon IP ignores all of them.
Besides, GW's stance on canon is that canon does not matter and you should make up your own mind.
Sure, which means that "the novels are non-canon and only the tabletop game matters" is just as legitimate as "the novels are canon". If Asherian Command can dismiss the Star Wars EU as "fan spank" and reject the evidence for firepower/ship counts/etc in the EU then I can do the same for the high-end stuff in 40k.
In 40k, a single spaceship is enough to destroy planets and this happens quite often.
Really? I haven't ever seen this happen in the tabletop game. Are you sure you aren't thinking of non-canon fanfiction here?
Furthermore, 40k factions such as the Dark Eldar or Necrons have the capability to destroy not just planets, but to extinguish entire stars like it is nothing.
And yet even in the novels they rarely, if ever, use this power. Necrons supposedly have all of this god-like power, but then they lose battles against WWI armies like the DKoK. The obvious conclusion here is that when a Necron character or a novel/codex/etc from the Necron point of view talks about having the ability to extinguish stars with a trivial effort it's just empty boasting.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/19 00:52:57
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Wyzilla wrote: You might actually want to bother looking up GW's stance before spouting nonsense. The TT isn't "official", everything and nothing is, simultaneously. Star Wars meanwhile has a rigid system that has punted the EU into an alternate universe and by and large rendered the material irrelevant, as it is no longer being updated.
I'm not talking about the stance of the publishers, I'm talking about Asherian Command's dismissal of the EU as "fan spank" and "pretty dumb" as if his dislike of it has anything to do with whether or not it is canon.
As for the supposed "removal" of the EU in Star Wars, that's kind of overstated. Disney has specifically said that they won't be following the story of the EU and consider themselves free to contradict EU material, but it still exists. For example, FFG continues to use EU material in their Star Wars games.
Official =/= canon. For example, Star Trek canon policy (set by the IP owner) is that the movies and TV shows are canon and nothing else is. So there are lots of officially-licensed Star Trek novels but they often contradict each other and there's very little attempt to incorporate them into a single unified world. Each author gets their own little non-canon copy of the universe to work with, and the canon IP ignores all of them.
Besides, GW's stance on canon is that canon does not matter and you should make up your own mind.
Sure, which means that "the novels are non-canon and only the tabletop game matters" is just as legitimate as "the novels are canon". If Asherian Command can dismiss the Star Wars EU as "fan spank" and reject the evidence for firepower/ship counts/etc in the EU then I can do the same for the high-end stuff in 40k.
In 40k, a single spaceship is enough to destroy planets and this happens quite often.
Really? I haven't ever seen this happen in the tabletop game. Are you sure you aren't thinking of non-canon fanfiction here?
Furthermore, 40k factions such as the Dark Eldar or Necrons have the capability to destroy not just planets, but to extinguish entire stars like it is nothing.
And yet even in the novels they rarely, if ever, use this power. Necrons supposedly have all of this god-like power, but then they lose battles against WWI armies like the DKoK. The obvious conclusion here is that when a Necron character or a novel/codex/etc from the Necron point of view talks about having the ability to extinguish stars with a trivial effort it's just empty boasting.
Mother of God.... I am starting to believe all these theories of Peregrine's. It's as if all the high end fluff pieces from the codexes are just there to make the faction look good to the player.
I can feel the warp mutating my body even as I type this heresy....
Somebody get me purity seals and an aquilla stat!
Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.
‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson
Wishing I was back at the South Atlantic, closer to ice than the sun
BL have actually come out and said that all their stories are true, lies, and personal opinions of the narrator. So which one is right? Peregrine and I are just as entitled to say that they are all lies within the background as you are to say they are true. As for the figures being quoted with regard to the damage, sorry no. Nice math, no backing. Each sum has been created within the vacuum of a story/descriptive narration. Lances can level continents? yet in game terms it misses 3 out of 4 attempts.
If you want us to take these seriously, then don't point to someone elses' work, justifiy it yourself please.
Cheers
Andrew
I don't care what the flag says, I'm SCOTTISH!!!
Best definition of the word Battleship?
Mr Nobody wrote:
Does a canoe with a machine gun count?
AndrewC wrote: BL have actually come out and said that all their stories are true, lies, and personal opinions of the narrator. So which one is right? Peregrine and I are just as entitled to say that they are all lies within the background as you are to say they are true. As for the figures being quoted with regard to the damage, sorry no. Nice math, no backing. Each sum has been created within the vacuum of a story/descriptive narration. Lances can level continents? yet in game terms it misses 3 out of 4 attempts.
If you want us to take these seriously, then don't point to someone elses' work, justifiy it yourself please.
Hell a single lance accidently destroyed a whole planet.
The next time the Night Haunter returned to Nostramo would be the last. Word had reached the legion that Imperial governor Basileus's regime allowed crime to run rampant once again. The Night Haunter's entire fleet arrived in orbit and aimed their weapons at their home world. Countless lance barrages and orbital torpedoes pummeled the surface. The bombardment reached the planet's core, possibly through a weakness left in the crust by Curze's landing or the extensive adamantium mining, and the planet burst apart[1][3].
Then we have Nova Cannons (Very similar to the deathstar in terms of how powerful they are and how hard it is to operate them)
ecause of the destruction it can cause over a vast area, a Nova Cannon projectile is not armed until a fraction of a second after firing, though by that time it will have already traveled tens of thousands of kilometers through space.[2a] Nova Cannons are also notoriously difficult to operate and inaccurate, which is why many Naval captains prefer to use traditional torpedoes instead. For those captains which do mount them, a well-used Nova Cannon can be a terrifying weapon and psychological tool.[2a]
Torpedos are basically used to destroy targets from far away often finding their target pretty easy. And are extremely deadly.
Some are used in local planetary defence networks[2c] while others can be launched from the planet surface, although they are required to traverse the planet's atmosphere.[2d] Anti-ship torpedoes are up to 200 feet in length and are powered by a plasma reactor, which makes up part of the warhead as well as the method of propulsion. Standard torpedoes move in a straight line and have limited sensing and targeting abilities, turning to intercept if they come within a few thousand kilometres of their target, although often they will still miss.[1] Torpedoes are highly effective weapons in space combat. They are so small and fast that only defence turrets and fighters can catch and destroy them easily before they impact, although using weapons batteries, lances and Nova cannons can prove effective if the captain is desperate enough.[1]
Weapon batteries are on every single Imperial Naval ship
From Plasma Projectors, Laser cannons, Missile Launchers, Rail Guns, Fusion Beamers and Graviton Pulsars. The Imperial Navy smaller ships are extremely powerful. That and also how quickly the Imperium can move.
According to the lore there is another weapon Called the Macrocannon
The macro cannon are a type of Macroweapon and the largest form of auto-weaponry, much heavier even than the autocannon. They fire massive and explosive shells at a maximum range of around 40 km. Although it is possible to mount them on heavy vehicles, they are more suited for use in emplacements and static defence due to their considerable size and potency.[1] They are a Standard Template Construct, and often form the primary weapon of starships.[2]
Atlas Class warheads basically destroyed titans that have void shields. Which Starwars vechiles lack on their basic vechiles on the ground. Their starships have shields on their regular ships but are easily destroyed by rockets and fire from small turrets. (Check the movies for that one)
The Atlas-class was a heavy thruster-powered bomb of Imperial manufacture, designed for air-to-ground bombardment. It was typically deployed against large ground targets, such as hardened bunkers, citadels, Titans, or Super Heavy Tanks.[1] Atlas warheads were in production as far back as the Great Crusade; at the time of the Horus Heresy, several Atlas-class warheads were adapted for space-to-surface operations in order to disperse the Life Eater virus on Istvaan III.[2]
Often times Space battles in the 40k universe are over hundreds of kilometres. While in starwars the are up close and personal.
Star Wars is used to upclose and personal battles, they are not used to having a fleet from the otherside of a planet or from worlds away blowing them all to hell. They are not used to be deployed at a galatic scale to them 2 million clones is a ton of troops. For 40k the average regiment is around give or take 16 million strong. (Though this was dependent on which regiment we are talking about)
We are talking about all of the imperium. The Whole Imperium. Versus the Starwars Galaxy. Starwars only benefit is their strength in terms of hope and research. But by the time they are able to counteract against say the Imperial Navy's Scout Fleets. The chances are extremely high that the Imperium has already killed most of the major leaders of the Star Wars Forces. Caldiux assassins and Assassins transforming and just killing every member of the Upper Ranks and then sowing chaos throughout the ranks. Sadly the star wars universe does not have an answer to the Assassins of the Imperium. Nor do they have answer to the unity that the imperium bostlers.
Also lies? Lies? You mean what Aaron Demboswaki said? Yes has anyone actually quoted a novel from 40k yet? No.... None have. They have been from the core books of the 40k universe. Codexes, the rules, and the many older writings of 40k which talk about actual weapon power.
40k is a universe where logic is somewhat devoid within this universe. But that doesn't mean that it loses to starwars. Which though popular does not mean it is better or havae more powerful weaponry. It is clear that it is not as strong as the 40k universe.
Not also to forget that I and many others have only talked about the Imperium so far. The Imperium That is the only group we have siginificantly covered. As we have other races such as the Eldar who are so technologically advanced that it is by this they continue to survive. They bring back the dead, and their dead are far more powerful than their normal forms.
Imagine it an Eldar Craftworld in the star wars universe. Sowing chaos and destroying any race secretly. They can make any thing seem like an accident.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/06/19 02:57:01
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
