Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
And this has turned into a SW vs Imperium debate, aren't we forgetting about all the other races? Even tau (the most peaceful race, that dislikes civilian causalities) have tech that supernovas stars (albeit, in their case, accidentally at first), and the warriors of all of the races (other than humans and tau) are super-humanly skilled/strong, tau have their tech and tactics, and the imperial guard has reserves ( ).

Now that being said, I don't think it would be one-sided, the SW universe unified would stand up pretty well, but would be brought down by the pure volume of troops the 40k universe can pump out if nothing else.

Yeah sadly that is what peregrine does he always just points at one thing and only targets that because he knows he is fighting a futile debate, a meaningless one at that. Which has been debated....

Over.

and over and over

The thing is that we are talking about two universes with completely different rules. I mean Peregrine for all his wisdom believes that the tabletop is law. Forgetting that game mechanics are neverly actually comparable to what the fluff is. As has been stated the fluff is more of a subisidary to go by. As game mechanics are game mechanics. because according to certain game mechanics which are there for balance reasons. If we followed that then jedi would have 100 HP, 10 attack and 12 defense and a space marine would have 1 hp, 1 attack, 3 defense. See the issue here? we are trying to compare two rulesets in terms of gameplay. No matter what we do we can't actually prove our points as the two universes have never crossed over. Its just fans throwing slurs at each other to try and prove that their universe is better than the other. I personally love star wars, and I hate warhammer 40k. Infact I was in support of 40k for a long time till I learned about the technology the imperium actually had and then I realized that the star wars stuff is more inline with reality while 40k was not. Meaning that starwars technology was technically inferior.

I mean look at dark souls some of the models are just placeholders to the actual lore characters, who were much stronger than their gamey form. Everything in dark souls has to be killable though that is the rule. Similar to 40k where everything is put down to numbers so that way the game is fair and somewhat balanced. Game Mechanics do not equate to how powerful a weapon is. What the hell does strength four mean in the starwars universe? Literally nothing. You can spout out how that the game mechanics are supposed to represent 40k, but that is forgetting that many of the time that isn't true. If we went by that then 40k would be very different. And There would be alot more space marines than their currently is in the fluff.

Which has been the majority of posts been pointing too.

Which is "Oh you killed that army, heres another one."

The Star wars universe has never been good at wars of attrition. I mean look at the clone wars and how much havoc that still laid upon the starwars universe.

Pretty sure your assassins would be brought down in with much less than those 200 Jedi fought. (Hell, id wager it was 5000:1 that fight.)

You ever wonder how many marines died from the assassin explosions after being best to death with bolters?

Bolter rounds being disintigrated by light sabers is actually a highly probable outcome.

 raiden wrote:
Pretty sure your assassins would be brought down in with much less than those 200 Jedi fought. (Hell, id wager it was 5000:1 that fight.)

You ever wonder how many marines died from the assassin explosions after being best to death with bolters?

Bolter rounds being disintigrated by light sabers is actually a highly probable outcome.

Bolters are explosive rounds. They wouldn't be disintergrated, light sabers don't disintergrate they are a heat source, and bolters are made from ceramite which is highly resistant to heat.

The thing is that you are throwing assassins in a war like situation that isn't how assassins work. Space marines would slaughter the jedi if it came to that. Jedi are warriors pure and simple. Against an organized military who not only have thousands of troops and subsidiaries the jedi would lose.

 raiden wrote:
Pretty sure your assassins would be brought down in with much less than those 200 Jedi fought. (Hell, id wager it was 5000:1 that fight.)

You ever wonder how many marines died from the assassin explosions after being best to death with bolters?

Bolter rounds being disintigrated by light sabers is actually a highly probable outcome.

I'm pretty sure it takes less than 5000 clones, or fething droids to kill jedi. I think you are seriously over-estimating jedi here. They are good, but nowhere near that good.

And light sabers could just disintegrate bolt round, or they cause them to detonate, meaning a shrapnel grenade going off less than a foot away from them.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Yeah sadly that is what peregrine does he always just points at one thing and only targets that because he knows he is fighting a futile debate, a meaningless one at that. Which has been debated....

No, I target one thing because going through every single unsupported claim you make would be a tedious waste of time. I pick the worst offenders to deal with and ignore the other subtle variations of that same claim (all with the same flaws).

I mean Peregrine for all his wisdom believes that the tabletop is law. Forgetting that game mechanics are neverly actually comparable to what the fluff is.

You know why I said that? To point out the absurdity of your "I hate the EU therefore it isn't canon" approach. If you can dismiss all of that inconvenient EU evidence then I can do the same with everything outside of the 40k tabletop game.

As game mechanics are game mechanics. because according to certain game mechanics which are there for balance reasons. If we followed that then jedi would have 100 HP, 10 attack and 12 defense and a space marine would have 1 hp, 1 attack, 3 defense. See the issue here?

I don't see any issue at all. That analysis overwhelmingly favors the jedi, but "40k loses horribly" is a perfectly acceptable answer. The biggest issue here seems to be the fact that you really want 40k to win and any analysis that doesn't give you the conclusion you want must be wrong.

No matter what we do we can't actually prove our points as the two universes have never crossed over.

We can prove our points by quantifying them. Don't just say "superhuman reflexes", provide some numbers on how fast a jedi/assassin/etc can react. Don't just say "lance batteries are really powerful", give specific numbers for how much energy they deliver per shot and compare them to Star Wars firepower and defense. Etc.

Game Mechanics do not equate to how powerful a weapon is.

Why not? When you answer this question remember that GW does not have any policy on what is or isn't canon.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 raiden wrote:
Pretty sure your assassins would be brought down in with much less than those 200 Jedi fought. (Hell, id wager it was 5000:1 that fight.)

You ever wonder how many marines died from the assassin explosions after being best to death with bolters?

Bolter rounds being disintigrated by light sabers is actually a highly probable outcome.

Bolters are explosive rounds. They wouldn't be disintergrated, light sabers don't disintergrate they are a heat source, and bolters are made from ceramite which is highly resistant to heat.

The thing is that you are throwing assassins in a war like situation that isn't how assassins work. Space marines would slaughter the jedi if it came to that. Jedi are warriors pure and simple. Against an organized military who not only have thousands of troops and subsidiaries the jedi could lose.

A Jedi would wreck a regular space marine, a master would put up a good fight, and have a high chance of beating a chapter master. Especially if that chapter master is fighting with a hammer or fist. (Which even in the fluff are slower than other weapons)

I agree, Jedi are not soldiers they are elite warriors, and, as stated in the cannon, keepers of the peace. They can't fight a war by themselves, but they can most assuredly stand against your assassins, and I'd wager agaisnt marines as well.


A light saber is condensed plasma, I'm pretty sure plasma even cuts through terminator armor...

 Asherian Command wrote:
They wouldn't be disintergrated, light sabers don't disintergrate they are a heat source, and bolters are made from ceramite which is highly resistant to heat.

{citation needed}

" The weapon consisted of a blade of pure plasma emitted from the hilt and suspended in a force containment field. The field contained the immense heat of the plasma, protecting the wielder, and allowed the blade to keep its shape. The hilt was almost always self-fabricated by the wielder to match his or her specific needs, preferences and style. The hilt was also built similarly to his or her master's lightsaber as a mark of respect. Due to the weightlessness of plasma and the strong gyroscopic effect generated by it, lightsabers required a great deal of strength and dexterity to wield, and it was extremely difficult—and dangerous—for the untrained to attempt using.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber

The 40k universe is too divided by to defeat Star Wars and at this point you must remember:

1. The Necrons are not all awoken yet and will likely not to do so for several 1,000 years. They don't have the numbers (currently) to compete on the level that is necessary to beat an entire galaxy.
2. Tau dont have the numbers to compete and are considered to be the least powerful faction in 40k as their empire is tiny in comparison to the aimperium and their tech is not as good as orks, and eldar.
3. The Eldar is a dying race and although extremely powerful they would neither be able to defeated the star wars galaxy nor would they want to.
4. The Imperium is beset on all sides and it cannot focus its war machine on the SW galaxy or else they will fall.
5. The orks would be a major threat that would require burning entire planets in order to stop their advances. The SW galaxy would probably suffer defeats before learning the hard way how to keep them down.
6. Tyranids have a variable amount of numbers with range from a fleet the size of star systems to much smaller( with some claiming artistic represention and not actual facts, but its up for debate) . The tyranisa would regardless be a massive threat and require specially adopted tactics and the employment of non-organic soldiers in a deep-space environment ( as to limit bio mass) to fight them.
7. Chaos corrupts those who allow it bur those affected would just as likely fight 40k forces as much as the SW ones. Except now empowered by chaos.

It will be a hard fight but its actually pretty good chances for either sides success.

Were arguing with each universe unified, remeber?

 raiden wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 raiden wrote:
Pretty sure your assassins would be brought down in with much less than those 200 Jedi fought. (Hell, id wager it was 5000:1 that fight.)

You ever wonder how many marines died from the assassin explosions after being best to death with bolters?

Bolter rounds being disintigrated by light sabers is actually a highly probable outcome.

Bolters are explosive rounds. They wouldn't be disintergrated, light sabers don't disintergrate they are a heat source, and bolters are made from ceramite which is highly resistant to heat.

The thing is that you are throwing assassins in a war like situation that isn't how assassins work. Space marines would slaughter the jedi if it came to that. Jedi are warriors pure and simple. Against an organized military who not only have thousands of troops and subsidiaries the jedi could lose.

A Jedi would wreck a regular space marine, a master would put up a good fight, and have a high chance of beating a chapter master. Especially if that chapter master is fighting with a hammer or fist. (Which even in the fluff are slower than other weapons)

I agree, Jedi are not soldiers they are elite warriors, and, as stated in the cannon, keepers of the peace. They can't fight a war by themselves, but they can most assuredly stand against your assassins, and I'd wager agaisnt marines as well.


A light saber is condensed plasma, I'm pretty sure plasma even cuts through terminator armor...

Erm. its been theorized it is plasma. But it has never been stated it is plasma in the movies. Which it hasn't ever. In the EU it has been. But the EU is not canon so that throws that theory out the box.

Marines are rarely on their own. Jedi would not know that they would be fighting an assassin until it was too late. An assassin is given a task they will do it. Kill the assassin then the imperium sends another one and probably send in the Culex Assassin in which would slaughter every jedi in the vinicity. As according to the 40k side of things JEdi would technically be pyskers. And would die by the near presence of one.

The thing is that you are discounting that a space marine would ever be by themselves. Why would a military leader? AKA a chapter master ever be on the frontline? They are never on the frontline. They send their company captains in with a hundred astartes. Super humans vs supposed super humans won't go the way you would want them to.

I am seeing now that the two of you are just so obessed with the starwars universe it is quite useless to even talk to you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Were arguing with each universe unified, remeber?

Then without a doubt. With the gods of the warp and ctan working together. Then the starwars universe is dead in the blink of an eye as chaos warp portals open all over corsuant and nurgle sends the plague of zombies in. By the time the imperium or any of the others arrive. The starwars universe will be dead, being swallowed whole by the warp and a new eye of terror twice the size of the old eye of terror will be born.

There is no winning in this fight for star wars. It only ends with them dying valiantly or dying killing each other as they are destroyed from within.


A jedi would be lured to chaos or any pysker in the star wars universe would shift to the side of chaos with the simple promise of power.

Yep the imperium wouldn't even lift a hand by the time they arrive chaos would of done the job for them.

 Asherian Command wrote:
But the EU is not canon so that throws that theory out the box.

Neither is anything in 40k except my personal fanfiction about a single guardsman surviving in the ruins of the final war. So clearly 40k loses because a single naked guardsman (all of his weapons and armor are gone) can't win against a whole galaxy-scale empire.

See how much fun it is when we invent our own canon policies that just happen to support the side we want to win?

Jedi would not know that they would be fighting an assassin until it was too late.

Alternatively, the jedi would sense a threat through the force, move to stop the assassin, and discover that the local security droids have already identified the assassin and killed it.

An assassin is given a task they will do it.

And when a jedi is given a task they will do it, so once someone says "go kill 40k" that's what will happen.

As according to the 40k side of things JEdi would technically be pyskers.

No they wouldn't be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Then the starwars universe is dead in the blink of an eye as chaos warp portals open all over corsuant and nurgle sends the plague of zombies in.

Kind of like how chaos opens warp portals in every important location in the Imperium and instantly wins? Oh wait, that doesn't happen, so I guess chaos isn't actually capable of that.

Since when are they unified? That doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense. The 40k factions rarely collaborate together and some of them would never collaborate( I.e necrons and chaos, imperium and chaos, eldar and necrons, (most) eldar and chaos)

Also to say that the dark gods would 'crush' star wars is facetious. They have directly intervened before why would they now? They prefer to play the great game and getting an entire galaxy of beings to join in the fun would be more on their agenda.

Also Jedi are not psykers. They do not draw power from the warp. That is merely a theory of yours.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 raiden wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 raiden wrote:
Pretty sure your assassins would be brought down in with much less than those 200 Jedi fought. (Hell, id wager it was 5000:1 that fight.)

You ever wonder how many marines died from the assassin explosions after being best to death with bolters?

Bolter rounds being disintigrated by light sabers is actually a highly probable outcome.

Bolters are explosive rounds. They wouldn't be disintergrated, light sabers don't disintergrate they are a heat source, and bolters are made from ceramite which is highly resistant to heat.

The thing is that you are throwing assassins in a war like situation that isn't how assassins work. Space marines would slaughter the jedi if it came to that. Jedi are warriors pure and simple. Against an organized military who not only have thousands of troops and subsidiaries the jedi could lose.

A Jedi would wreck a regular space marine, a master would put up a good fight, and have a high chance of beating a chapter master. Especially if that chapter master is fighting with a hammer or fist. (Which even in the fluff are slower than other weapons)

I agree, Jedi are not soldiers they are elite warriors, and, as stated in the cannon, keepers of the peace. They can't fight a war by themselves, but they can most assuredly stand against your assassins, and I'd wager agaisnt marines as well.


A light saber is condensed plasma, I'm pretty sure plasma even cuts through terminator armor...

Erm. its been theorized it is plasma. But it has never been stated it is plasma in the movies. Which it hasn't ever. In the EU it has been. But the EU is not canon so that throws that theory out the box.

Marines are rarely on their own. Jedi would not know that they would be fighting an assassin until it was too late. An assassin is given a task they will do it. Kill the assassin then the imperium sends another one and probably send in the Culex Assassin in which would slaughter every jedi in the vinicity. As according to the 40k side of things JEdi would technically be pyskers. And would die by the near presence of one.

The thing is that you are discounting that a space marine would ever be by themselves. Why would a military leader? AKA a chapter master ever be on the frontline? They are never on the frontline. They send their company captains in with a hundred astartes. Super humans vs supposed super humans won't go the way you would want them to.

I am seeing now that the two of you are just so obessed with the starwars universe it is quite useless to even talk to you.

Funny thing, I actually know more about the 40k universe than starwars. (I know a fair bit about SW though)

Um, have you ever read 40k fluff? I'm ANY major engagement the chapter master is almost always present, and fighting. Some lead the charge others don't, I never said they would be on the front lines, but the Jedi would reach them. After disposing of those pesky captains.

No, the force =\= to the warp, I doubt they would even effect the Jedi in any way.

Jedi> any assassin in a frontal confrontation, its like comparing a ninja to a samurai.

EU is as much cannon as it ever was, Disney didn't say it wasnt, they simple said that they arent obligated to not contradict it at times.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 raiden wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 raiden wrote:
Pretty sure your assassins would be brought down in with much less than those 200 Jedi fought. (Hell, id wager it was 5000:1 that fight.)

You ever wonder how many marines died from the assassin explosions after being best to death with bolters?

Bolter rounds being disintigrated by light sabers is actually a highly probable outcome.

Bolters are explosive rounds. They wouldn't be disintergrated, light sabers don't disintergrate they are a heat source, and bolters are made from ceramite which is highly resistant to heat.

The thing is that you are throwing assassins in a war like situation that isn't how assassins work. Space marines would slaughter the jedi if it came to that. Jedi are warriors pure and simple. Against an organized military who not only have thousands of troops and subsidiaries the jedi could lose.

A Jedi would wreck a regular space marine, a master would put up a good fight, and have a high chance of beating a chapter master. Especially if that chapter master is fighting with a hammer or fist. (Which even in the fluff are slower than other weapons)

I agree, Jedi are not soldiers they are elite warriors, and, as stated in the cannon, keepers of the peace. They can't fight a war by themselves, but they can most assuredly stand against your assassins, and I'd wager agaisnt marines as well.


A light saber is condensed plasma, I'm pretty sure plasma even cuts through terminator armor...

Erm. its been theorized it is plasma. But it has never been stated it is plasma in the movies. Which it hasn't ever. In the EU it has been. But the EU is not canon so that throws that theory out the box.

Marines are rarely on their own. Jedi would not know that they would be fighting an assassin until it was too late. An assassin is given a task they will do it. Kill the assassin then the imperium sends another one and probably send in the Culex Assassin in which would slaughter every jedi in the vinicity. As according to the 40k side of things JEdi would technically be pyskers. And would die by the near presence of one.

The thing is that you are discounting that a space marine would ever be by themselves. Why would a military leader? AKA a chapter master ever be on the frontline? They are never on the frontline. They send their company captains in with a hundred astartes. Super humans vs supposed super humans won't go the way you would want them to.

you mean the same superhumans who died in droves to assassins which are clearly outmatched by Jedi?

I am seeing now that the two of you are just so obessed with the starwars universe it is quite useless to even talk to you.

obviously you are so obsessed with 40k that it is useless to talk to you. See I can make a baseless and edged post too.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Were arguing with each universe unified, remeber?

Then without a doubt. With the gods of the warp and ctan working together.

you mean the things that want nothing other than to destroy each other and act as anathema in to each other in their respective realms. Also chaos gods don't directly involve themselves and the c'tan are shattered.

Then the starwars universe is dead in the blink of an eye as chaos warp portals open all over corsuant and nurgle sends the plague of zombies in. By the time the imperium or any of the others arrive. The starwars universe will be dead, being swallowed whole by the warp and a new eye of terror twice the size of the old eye of terror will be born.

Really? I must of missed when that happened in the 40k universe and chaos rofl stomped everyone else.

There is no winning in this fight for star wars. It only ends with them dying valiantly or dying killing each other as they are destroyed from within.


A jedi would be lured to chaos or any pysker in the star wars universe would shift to the side of chaos with the simple promise of power.
your totally right. I forgot that the dark side of the force totally isn't a thing that already exists/ offers that and Jedi still dont choose it. Silly me.

Yep the imperium wouldn't even lift a hand by the time they arrive chaos would of done the job for them.

Oh dear, now I got caught up in this nonsense. That is what surfing Dakka while being bored gets you I guess

 Peregrine wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
But the EU is not canon so that throws that theory out the box.

Neither is anything in 40k except my personal fanfiction about a single guardsman surviving in the ruins of the final war. So clearly 40k loses because a single naked guardsman (all of his weapons and armor are gone) can't win against a whole galaxy-scale empire.

See how much fun it is when we invent our own canon policies that just happen to support the side we want to win?

Everything in 40k is canon.
Meanwhile in Star Wars, the EU is definitely non-canon. George Lucas has made it very clear that only the movies (including the Clone Wars) are canon. Who are you to argue against the creator of Star Wars himself?

 Peregrine wrote:

As according to the 40k side of things JEdi would technically be pyskers.

No they wouldn't be.

With that I have to agree.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
BL is a part of GW, so BL are as official as they come.

Official =/= canon. For example, Star Trek canon policy (set by the IP owner) is that the movies and TV shows are canon and nothing else is. So there are lots of officially-licensed Star Trek novels but they often contradict each other and there's very little attempt to incorporate them into a single unified world. Each author gets their own little non-canon copy of the universe to work with, and the canon IP ignores all of them.

Star Trek has a very strict canon policy, 40k doesn't. Besides, BL novels are not just officially licensed, they are written by GW itself (BL just being the name of GW's book store, they are one and the same company). BL novels are as official and canon as you could possibly get.

 Peregrine wrote:

Besides, GW's stance on canon is that canon does not matter and you should make up your own mind.

Sure, which means that "the novels are non-canon and only the tabletop game matters" is just as legitimate as "the novels are canon". If Asherian Command can dismiss the Star Wars EU as "fan spank" and reject the evidence for firepower/ship counts/etc in the EU then I can do the same for the high-end stuff in 40k.

Really? That is your argument? I know we are all playing with toy soldiers here, but that doesn't mean your arguments should be childish as well.
The EU can be dismissed as non-canon because this is the official stance of the current IP owners. Meanwhile, in 40k, a BL novel is the same level of canon as a codex. You should give good reasons for using one source but not the other.

 Peregrine wrote:

In 40k, a single spaceship is enough to destroy planets and this happens quite often.

Really? I haven't ever seen this happen in the tabletop game. Are you sure you aren't thinking of non-canon fanfiction here?

Either you know little about 40k background or you are just back to being your usual self again.
It happens a lot in canon 40k background, and no, there are no spaceships on the tabletop so obviously it doesn't happen there. Your argument is like saying people in the Star Wars universe all die of constipation because you never see them take a gak in the movies.

 Peregrine wrote:

Furthermore, 40k factions such as the Dark Eldar or Necrons have the capability to destroy not just planets, but to extinguish entire stars like it is nothing.

And yet even in the novels they rarely, if ever, use this power. Necrons supposedly have all of this god-like power, but then they lose battles against WWI armies like the DKoK. The obvious conclusion here is that when a Necron character or a novel/codex/etc from the Necron point of view talks about having the ability to extinguish stars with a trivial effort it's just empty boasting.

First of all, DKoK are not a WWI army. They use WWI tactics, but their weapons are far more powerful. Also, the fact that the Necrons rarely if ever use their most powerful weapons doesn't mean they don't have them. They could very well have many different reasons for not using such weapons.


Star Wars weapons are ridiculously underpowered compared to those in 40k. Compare the AT-AT to a Warhound Titan, a blaster to a gaussflayer, a Star Destroyer to a Mars Class Battlecruiser or the Star Destroyer to Cyclonic Torpedoes and you will see.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
Since when are they unified? That doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense. The 40k factions rarely collaborate together and some of them would never collaborate( I.e necrons and chaos, imperium and chaos, eldar and necrons, (most) eldar and chaos)

Since the first post. That's the entire premace. "All of Wh40k Vs All of starwars."

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
Since when are they unified? That doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense. The 40k factions rarely collaborate together and some of them would never collaborate( I.e necrons and chaos, imperium and chaos, eldar and necrons, (most) eldar and chaos)

Also to say that the dark gods would 'crush' star wars is facetious. They have directly intervened before why would they now? They prefer to play the great game and getting an entire galaxy of beings to join in the fun would be more on their agenda.

Also Jedi are not psykers. They do not draw power from the warp. That is merely a theory of yours.

You did say all starwars vs all of wh40k.

We are including everything

Starwars has no gods to speak of that are as intervening as the chaos gods are they intervene all the time in 40k they ressurect random chaos space marines for lulz and they create demons.

We haven't even gotten to the more powerful beings.

The Star Wars canon is what is officially regarded as "canonical", or officially part of a story, in the Star Wars media franchise.

The official Star Wars canon consists of the six released Star Wars theatrical feature films, the Star Wars animated film and television series The Clone Wars and Star Wars Rebels, and any expanded universe material released after April 25, 2014. The upcoming feature film Star Wars: The Force Awakens (along with the untitled Episode VIII and Episode IX) will also be a part of the official canon.[1]

On April 25, 2014, Lucasfilm officially revised and solidified the canon, stating that all previously released Expanded Universe works would be rebranded under the new Star Wars Legends banner, in order to ensure a flowing timeline with the release of the Star Wars sequel trilogy. They also announced that all future Star Wars stories will be considered C-canon or above, with guidance coming from the Star Wars story group.[2]

 raiden wrote:
The Star Wars canon is what is officially regarded as "canonical", or officially part of a story, in the Star Wars media franchise.

The official Star Wars canon consists of the six released Star Wars theatrical feature films, the Star Wars animated film and television series The Clone Wars and Star Wars Rebels, and any expanded universe material released after April 25, 2014. The upcoming feature film Star Wars: The Force Awakens (along with the untitled Episode VIII and Episode IX) will also be a part of the official canon.[1]

On April 25, 2014, Lucasfilm officially revised and solidified the canon, stating that all previously released Expanded Universe works would be rebranded under the new Star Wars Legends banner, in order to ensure a flowing timeline with the release of the Star Wars sequel trilogy. They also announced that all future Star Wars stories will be considered C-canon or above, with guidance coming from the Star Wars story group.[2]

So the EU isn't canon we are all in agreement here.

With that I have to agree.

Its a half baked theory. I was reading through previous threads that were talking about this and I found that one. But if we had to do a comparision is very similar to 40k so if the two universes ever collided, the force is basically the warp just unrefined.

Force is in no way the warp, the force is part of the material realm, the warp is not.

Also remember we are using the same fluff with guardsman killing marines, your "super humans" with laser lights.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
Since when are they unified? That doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense. The 40k factions rarely collaborate together and some of them would never collaborate( I.e necrons and chaos, imperium and chaos, eldar and necrons, (most) eldar and chaos)

Also to say that the dark gods would 'crush' star wars is facetious. They have directly intervened before why would they now? They prefer to play the great game and getting an entire galaxy of beings to join in the fun would be more on their agenda.

Also Jedi are not psykers. They do not draw power from the warp. That is merely a theory of yours.

You did say all starwars vs all of wh40k.

We are including everything

Starwars has no gods to speak of that are as intervening as the chaos gods are they intervene all the time in 40k they ressurect random chaos space marines for lulz and they create demons.

We haven't even gotten to the more powerful beings.

And by removing the background, allegiances, tendencies, etc of the factions is ALL of 40k how? I'm confused. If it can't happen by fluff then irs not 40k. That's not 40k that's you making some weird fanfic ultimate team up.

Resurrecting random chaos Marines, and creating daemons is hardly the same level of interference as destroying the entire inhabitants of a galaxy and creating a new eye of terror. Besides the Chaos Gods "could not kill or corrupt" Draigo who is literally one person ( that's right hate the story all you wantbut it us canon) . If they can't do that then how can you claim they can do it to the heroes and denizens of SW?

What more powerful beings? All of the "big hitters" I 40k are dead/ shattered/ lost/ severely injured / unknown.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
The 40k universe is too divided by to defeat Star Wars and at this point you must remember:

1. The Necrons are not all awoken yet and will likely not to do so for several 1,000 years. They don't have the numbers (currently) to compete on the level that is necessary to beat an entire galaxy.
2. Tau dont have the numbers to compete and are considered to be the least powerful faction in 40k as their empire is tiny in comparison to the aimperium and their tech is not as good as orks, and eldar.
3. The Eldar is a dying race and although extremely powerful they would neither be able to defeated the star wars galaxy nor would they want to.
4. The Imperium is beset on all sides and it cannot focus its war machine on the SW galaxy or else they will fall.
5. The orks would be a major threat that would require burning entire planets in order to stop their advances. The SW galaxy would probably suffer defeats before learning the hard way how to keep them down.
6. Tyranids have a variable amount of numbers with range from a fleet the size of star systems to much smaller( with some claiming artistic represention and not actual facts, but its up for debate) . The tyranisa would regardless be a massive threat and require specially adopted tactics and the employment of non-organic soldiers in a deep-space environment ( as to limit bio mass) to fight them.
7. Chaos corrupts those who allow it bur those affected would just as likely fight 40k forces as much as the SW ones. Except now empowered by chaos.

It will be a hard fight but its actually pretty good chances for either sides success.

I would disagree. There is still no way they could combat the Necrons or hell even the tyranids. The Tyranids will just keep coming. Tyranids eat all biomatter. Not just organic. Biomatter is basically everything. Except rock without iron or other minerals or materials.

Though combined all these forces would wipe the floor of the starwars universe.

One faction by themselves is not enough to conquer a galaxy. But combined probably they could.
The Imperium could not defeat the entire galaxy of star wars, but they could pacify it in three hundred years given enough time and resources. That and they are not at war with the other groups. Resistance would stay but it wane in time, as the Imperium would probably just wipe the floor of the Star Wars Universe.

I think alot of people forget that the 40k universe has FTL outside of the Warp. Its just not as powerful nor as quick a the warp is. Think of Warp Travel as faster than FTL. It is very common in the imperium of man and if Peregrine tells me to source I am going to tell him to read the Armaggedon Books and every piece of 40k fluff that points to this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 raiden wrote:
Force is in no way the warp, the force is part of the material realm, the warp is not.

Also remember we are using the same fluff with guardsman killing marines, your "super humans" with massed lasers.

Erm you mean the lore where it took a hundred las rifles? Or the one where one las rifle from an extremely skilled guardsmen who has been fighting chaos spacemarines all his life killed one with a well placed shot?

Yeah I remember that part of the fluff. Yes I know who killed the astartes.

Yes Astartes can die and are mortal. They are super humans and do die. But star wars is not facing their foes in a line one at a time. We are talking about full out war. Where the imperium has a crusade fleet vs a major star wars fleet. The star wars fleet would be smashed by the sheer size and scale of the imperium's fleet. We are talking about the ground war between the imperium and the star wars universe's armies. We are talking about the might of Titan legions, grey knights, assassins, planet killers, black stone fortresses (mind you those could wipe out the entire starwars fleets in miliseconds) we would see space marines, guardsmen, white shields, knight legions, everything the imperium has to offer, in one battlefield in one galaxy. That would be the might of the imperium. The Full Might mind you, The entire imperium's hammer falling down one location with no interfance with any other race. The Imperium I think would do fine. If the great crusade had finished the imperium would of rained ceasely and the tyranid hive fleets would of been destroyed instantly.

WE are also talking about a universe where a single clone trooper killed a jedi, a bunch of clone troopers killed most of them in their own stronghold mind you. A storm trooper is called the best shots in the galaxy and yet can't hit luke skywalker or a barn for that matter.

We are also talking about a universe where the most elite troops the empire had was beaten by a bunch of natives with sticks. So please tell me how the 40k universe doesn't stand a chance

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Everything in 40k is canon.

No, the concept of "canon" in 40k simply does not exist. GW has refused to offer any kind of public canon policy, even one as broad as "40k material is canon if and only if it is published by GW". You personally might believe that a 40k novel published by GW is canon and my fanfiction isn't, but that's not a position endorsed by GW.

Meanwhile in Star Wars, the EU is definitely non-canon. George Lucas has made it very clear that only the movies (including the Clone Wars) are canon. Who are you to argue against the creator of Star Wars himself?

I can argue against the creator because the creator no longer owns the IP rights to the thing he created.

Besides, BL novels are not just officially licensed, they are written by GW itself (BL just being the name of GW's book store, they are one and the same company). BL novels are as official and canon as you could possibly get.

Again, GW has never said that BL novels are canon. Nor have they said "material written by GW employees is canon".

The EU can be dismissed as non-canon because this is the official stance of the current IP owners.

No it can't, because Disney's policy is not a straightforward "movies only" rule. They've stated that they are willing to contradict the EU, but licensed products (FFG's games, for example) are still using EU material.

Meanwhile, in 40k, a BL novel is the same level of canon as a codex.

And both are the same level of canon as my personal fanfiction, according to GW.

It happens a lot in canon 40k background

And we'll stop right here, because there is no such thing as "canon 40k background". The material you're referring to is no more or less canon than my fanfiction where 40k happens on a single planet and spaceships don't exist.

First of all, DKoK are not a WWI army.

You're right, they fall short of being a WWI army in many ways. At least WWI armies had functional tanks, while the LRBT is a broken mess that would instantly immobilize itself and only "works" because the authors and artists in 40k don't know anything about tank design.

Also, the fact that the Necrons rarely if ever use their most powerful weapons doesn't mean they don't have them. They could very well have many different reasons for not using such weapons.

They could have them, but the most likely answer is "they don't have them and they're just bragging". The alternative is "we didn't want to win that battle anyway" absurdity where the Necrons deliberately lose to much weaker enemies instead of winning the battle with their superior weapons.

On another note- how a light saber functions and other fun -cannon- facts on resistance of objects

Which means SW has actual material that can withstand plasma.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber#Mechanics_and_specifications
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Soo we can all agree plot armor is thicker than anything, so whoever writes the war, wins it, if GW wrote it 40k wins, if Disney wrote it, SW wins


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In the future a medium of fluff should be specified. As in, from codices only, from novel series X, from RPG game X. For 40k its the only way to do it

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
Since when are they unified? That doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense. The 40k factions rarely collaborate together and some of them would never collaborate( I.e necrons and chaos, imperium and chaos, eldar and necrons, (most) eldar and chaos)

Also to say that the dark gods would 'crush' star wars is facetious. They have directly intervened before why would they now? They prefer to play the great game and getting an entire galaxy of beings to join in the fun would be more on their agenda.

Also Jedi are not psykers. They do not draw power from the warp. That is merely a theory of yours.

You did say all starwars vs all of wh40k.

We are including everything

Starwars has no gods to speak of that are as intervening as the chaos gods are they intervene all the time in 40k they ressurect random chaos space marines for lulz and they create demons.

We haven't even gotten to the more powerful beings.

And by removing the background, allegiances, tendencies, etc of the factions is ALL of 40k how? I'm confused. If it can't happen by fluff then irs not 40k. That's not 40k that's you making some weird fanfic ultimate team up.

Resurrecting random chaos Marines, and creating daemons is hardly the same level of interference as destroying the entire inhabitants of a galaxy and creating a new eye of terror. Besides the Chaos Gods "could not kill or corrupt" Draigo who is literally one person ( that's right hate the story all you wantbut it us canon) . If they can't do that then how can you claim they can do it to the heroes and denizens of SW?

What more powerful beings? All of the "big hitters" I 40k are dead/ shattered/ lost/ severely injured / unknown.

THAT'S WHAT THE ENTIRE PREMISE OF THE THREAD IS

If you read that, you would realize that it's not galactic empire vs imperium it's unified starwars universe vs unified 40k universe.

On the draigo side, it's bad fluff, but the grey knights train to resist chaos, so it's not wholly unreasonable (still really stupid though). There was this one thing from the fire warrior, before the non-warp fluff for the tau was written, where an etheral's emotions were so in check, that a greater deamon could not find a single way in, and I'd imagine jedi master's are rather like that, although we certainly wold have jedi like Aniken or Luke, full of emotion. All sith too for that matter.

Out of the big hitters, all the chaos primarchs are still alive AFAIK, just not entering the mortal realm (as that would require GW to advance the setting). And there are plenty of heroes out there. Now people like the empy are out of the fight (assuming we're operating from only "current" 40k), but there are still powerful people.

And 40k doesn't, incidentally, oh and as for ceramite being heat resistant, meet hotshot lasguns and anything melta.

And 35 miles Vindicare? What the hell, there's no way you can shoot someone 35 miles away with a direct hit, you'll need indirect fire.

On the topic, any setting vs an entirely allied 40k setting is fethed. -any-

 raiden wrote:
On the topic, any setting vs an entirely allied 40k setting is fethed. -any-

Not really. A single Culture civilian ship could slaughter the entire 40k setting if it didn't get bored first and move on to something more challenging. And the Culture isn't even at the top of the scifi power scale.

I'm not sure if that's sad or hilarious. I mean 40k has enough doomsday devises to destroy the entire galaxy and then some, and no chance at all?