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Hi there,
this topic is for discussing about the changes of the termnator squad that occured with the new codex, like the thread which is for discussing the changes of the scouts bikes.
I did it because the terminators are awesome models, but are (were ?) a "meh" unit, so I rarely play them (even if I don't play in "tournament" like meta).
Are they better now ?
-They are cheaper;
-They can be part of a 1st company task force (sweet, sweet preffered ennemy !).
-Drop pods in fast attack, to come T1 and land without risk (near your extremis level threat if possible).
- The doctrines changed (Ultramarines are better for them know, I think, and I don't remember if bolter drill applied to storm bolters)
So, what do you think ? Are they still too bad ? Do we need tests ?

They're still going to be "LOL AP2"ed off the table. Or for storm shields, "LOL 1,000,000 Wounds"ed off the table. The scatbikes continue to have their cake and eat it too.

The new changes haven’t helped their survivability. Which is a shame, as that is supposed to be their thing. But being T4 guys, you can either just hose them down with small arms and watch the 1s come up, or hit them with plasma (or the equivalent) and want them explode.

If you want shooting, sternguard do it better. Especially when considering podding.
Honour guard are now a separate elite choice. You keep the 2+, 95% of the shooting, but get greater flexibility in CC weapons, and take take 5 guys with a pod for the same price as 5 terminators.

Tactical terminators remain a jack of all trades, master of none unit. You get lackluster firepower for the points (even with the drop). A unit full of powerfists is nice, but they are slow; other CC units are better.

PE for the formation is nice, but it would be nice for all the other options you could take as well. Fear/fearless is kinda cute, but with ATSKNF anyway, and so many thing immune to fear, not paradigm shifting.

The new codex has made them slightly more efficient, by dropping their points, but no more effective then they were before. If you used them before (as I do) enjoy the point drop and keep at it. If you didn’t think they were worth it in the last book, I don’t see anything that’s going to change your mind in the new one.

I think the new termis will have a place in the formation that gives them +1 to their shots when disembarking/teleporting or whatever.

assuming current load out restrictions on heavy weapons if you took a 10man unit (now 350 versus 400, lol?) you could put the sgt with 4 stormbolter termis (15 S4 ap5 shots from that unit) and then have an unit that has 2 heavy weapons, for cyclone missiles that would be 4 missile shots and 15 stormbolters, or you could have 4 heavy flamer shots and 9 stormbolter shots, or 10 assault cannon shots and 9 storm bolter shots the turn they disembark/teleport. It's not amazing, but its pretty good.

The downside is that formation requires basically 4 termi squads, a land raider, stormraven and termi captain. So its a heavy points investment.

As i remember the librarian formation doesnt require that the librarians be in the same unit. By spreading them out and keeping them in 12" you could buff the pants off of them.

Also tac squads can tp homers for 5 points. You could squeeze in a demi company with a termi formation. Then have Terminators drop in when & where you want. Idk how great that would be, but it couldbe ok. All for 1850.

*Yeah i just double checked my math. On the big termi formation it clocks in at about 1450. So too much for the big formation and a demi company. Maybe at 2k. But you can get the smaller 1st company formation. Thats not terrible, in terms of wanting to include tda.

 Nevelon wrote:
The new changes haven’t helped their survivability. Which is a shame, as that is supposed to be their thing.

Being cheaper has increased their surviability. You can now have more of them meaning they will last longer

 Nevelon wrote:

Honour guard are now a separate elite choice. You keep the 2+, 95% of the shooting, but get greater flexibility in CC weapons, and take take 5 guys with a pod for the same price as 5 terminators.

I agree honour guard are better, but they dont have 95% of the shooting. They cannot get 2 shots and then also charge. They cannot tote assault cannons and cylcones. They also dont get the 5++ or the powerfist, only getting a regular power weapon so there is something there, just not enough.

 Exergy wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
The new changes haven’t helped their survivability. Which is a shame, as that is supposed to be their thing.

Being cheaper has increased their surviability. You can now have more of them meaning they will last longer

It is pretty sad that the alleged Elite first company marines are reduced to the "We Have Reserves!" that the frickin' Guard are known for.

 Nevelon wrote:

Honour guard are now a separate elite choice. You keep the 2+, 95% of the shooting, but get greater flexibility in CC weapons, and take take 5 guys with a pod for the same price as 5 terminators.

I agree honour guard are better, but they dont have 95% of the shooting. They cannot get 2 shots and then also charge. They cannot tote assault cannons and cylcones. They also dont get the 5++ or the powerfist, only getting a regular power weapon so there is something there, just not enough.

Well, you can blow a few points and give all of the Honour Guard a Relic Blade, and give the Champ a Thunder Hammer (which guarantees him dying in a challenge). I think the way to go is to give half the squad Power Mauls, the other half Relic Blades, and the Champ a Relic Blade (maybe a TH, since the Mauls will put the Champ on equal footing with a lot of stuff due to Concussive).

As for poor Terminators, the points reduction did make them less dumb, but there are still better options.

Are they better: Obviously yes.

Are they worth it? No. Still too little, and very very late.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Are they better: Obviously yes.

Are they worth it? No. Still too little, and very very late.

This. They are not worth it. I'd stay away from them.

This point change is like 2 editions behind. Id really prefer if they keep the unit role as an expensive durable unit, just with fixed rules so it actually does what it says on the tin, IE toughness 5 or 2 wounds or w/e, rather than lowering them points-wise to "honor guard with an invuln."

you can drop pod terminators now?!?