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He sounds insane and idiotic. That's the opposite of "reasonable." Have you ever heard of Stockholm Syndrome?

I haven't actually what is it?

 Ir0njack wrote:
Honestly its not that big a deal *for me and other regulars from what I've seen atleast* like I've said, I've only seen it really enforced during tournaments. Then again I've never been a fan of the digital codices and have never made a list with things from dataslates except for casual games so I'm probably biased in that regard.

Edit:
I just realized that OP and myself are talking about the same store lol. So yeah, that's the reason behind the rule. Owner is a reasonable guy, just ask him about the specifics of the rule.

I know he is a reasonable guy. I like him, I was wondering if this was the norm. Also, not being able to play two HQs and the only viable use from Helbrutes being from the dataslate is quite frustrating. Now that I know its not normal practice, its annoying but hey, where else am I gonna go to tournaments at. I would like to play Belakor at the 2500 point unbound next week, but its restricted due to dataslate. But another dude can bring his massive forge world stuff and thats cool. Guys are running skitari armies from the magazine and there is a special rule in there that is not even known yet, but thats cool. so its been eating at me.

Its understandable to be bothered by it, especially if you're losing out on units because of it. But its like you said, where else are we gonna play , only other shops I know of a almost in OKC. Best of lucky in the tourny though!

For skitarii do you mean the formation with the knight?

this is not reasonable from any logical perspective why do you people still keep calling him reasonable

 Desubot wrote:
No you Can check them if you ask to see there Black library account as its tied to it.

The exception being I pad type things which should also have purchase histories.

ITs really easy to check if some one had downloaded something or purchased it.

ITs about how intrusive you want to get.

Then again just asking to see it shouldnt cause uproar from some one that bought the thing anyway.

yeah, the rules say one has to show the rules, not show your account gistory. Aside for tax police, I don't think there are many people that can force others to show their history and even they need a warrent for it. Unless it is a matter of national security or something.

How does that affect them at all?

Should we also disclose which miniatures we bought on ebay or traded from friends or assembled from extra bitz in excess of the amount of models advertised on a kit's box?

And should those things thereby be barred from use?

Well here it is more or less it. If a shop doesn't sell it, it won't let people use it. If it takes money away from them, because let say your buying inifnity and they don't sell it, they wont accept people playing or using the models. And it does affect them, each codex bought in digital form is one codex less bought from the store and if they are unable to check which one is the original and which one is a copy, then one digital sm codex could turn in to many unsold sm books.
As for ebay buying models goes, if the store owner suddenly sees someone with a 1500pts army you never used, they won't like it. They won't, probably , kick you out of the store, unless the models are recasts, but it may be harder to get a table to play or the time table to play may put you at strange hours or at times when you can play.

Those are all wonderful ways to ensure with 100% certainty that players adversely affected by those policies never buy anything else from that store again. No matter how y'all try to "justify" these insane rules, the only thing they accomplish is cutting off the store's nose to spite its face. They are bad for the store.

I love supporting my FLGS as much as anyone but if they enacted policies like these I'd be moving my (not insubstantial) purchasing elsewhere.

Makumba wrote:

yeah, the rules say one has to show the rules, not show your account gistory. Aside for tax police, I don't think there are many people that can force others to show their history and even they need a warrent for it. Unless it is a matter of national security or something.

As there is no Rules saying an owner of a store has to let people play at there store.

Many places require proof of purchase for all sorts of things. so your point is entirely moot.

Not Allowing Dataslates is what Mr Spock would call "Illogical"

So what is needed is 50 or so Sisters players to all turn up, say 10 minute after each other, walk in ask for a game, show e-codex, take on the chin not being able to play, then walk out.

Its fine its sisters

That store wasn't going to make money of them anyway

 j31c3n wrote:
Those are all wonderful ways to ensure with 100% certainty that players adversely affected by those policies never buy anything else from that store again. No matter how y'all try to "justify" these insane rules, the only thing they accomplish is cutting off the store's nose to spite its face. They are bad for the store.

I love supporting my FLGS as much as anyone but if they enacted policies like these I'd be moving my (not insubstantial) purchasing elsewhere.

Yeah a lot of these "I understand" type posts keep listing activities that kill gaming stores dead. I have a friend who owns a store and hosts many Magic events, board game players and mini game players regularly. He makes more money from the mini game players just being in the store playing games and buying sodas and snacks from him while they are there all weekend in a given month than he does selling minis for the games they are playing within the same month. He could moan and complain that people aren't buying their minis there, but even when they are he still makes money off of them just by having them in the store playing games. Dumbest thing he could do would be to give them a reason to stop playing there anymore.

The one that amuses me the most is the "checking the black library receipts" idea. Yeah if anyone has an LGS that has done that, please post up how that went. I am really curious because I don't expect it went well.

Skriker

Yeah, requiring customers and players to show proof of purchase for an item like that is insane. It's all but directly accusing the player of theft (and it really walks the line of slander/defamation of character IMHO), and destroys the player/FLGS relationship. I cannot imagine even being asked to produce a receipt for something like that. Imagine if they asked to see your receipts for models that you'd purchased back in 2nd or 3rd edition just to "ensure" that they weren't skillful recasts or something equally absurd. Holy crap.

 Ir0njack wrote:
Honestly its not that big a deal

So basically you want to completely ban my army, which is already by no means a top tier army or one very well supported by GW to begin with, for no benefit whatsoever.

 Melissia wrote:

 Ir0njack wrote:
Honestly its not that big a deal

So basically you want to completely ban my army, which is already by no means a top tier army or one very well supported by GW to begin with, for no benefit whatsoever.

1. Don't have to keep up to date on the somewhat excessive dataslate release schedule
2. Ban some of the more over the top sillyness in 40k
3. Don't have to support GW trying to take business from the FLGS
4. Pisses you off.

All seems like valid and good reason to ban them to me.

There's going to be some collateral damage with any manner of wide spread banning, and frankly, SOBs is a small price to pay in this guy's opinion.

 Carnage43 wrote:
1. Don't have to keep up to date on the somewhat excessive dataslate release schedule

So ban all Space Marine armies, there you go you don't have to keep up with anything. Small price to pay, Space Marines are boring anyway. See, this is perfectly rational and not at all stupid!

 Carnage43 wrote:
2. Ban some of the more over the top sillyness in 40k

Eldar: quod erat demonstrandum. The default GW stuff has most of the over the top silliness-- you're banning stuff that isn't actually over the top while leaving the over the top crap in. Not that logic appears to be the strong point of this store owner.

 Carnage43 wrote:
3. Don't have to support GW trying to take business from the FLGS

No, instead they're pushing business to GW themselves like they're afraid of money.

 Carnage43 wrote:
4. Pisses you off.

So pissing customers off is a valid excuse to do things? No wonder FLGS stores are going under, they must be run by jackasses.

 Carnage43 wrote:
SOBs is a small price to pay in this guy's opinion.

Then he's an idiot.

 Carnage43 wrote:

1. Don't have to keep up to date on the somewhat excessive dataslate release schedule
2. Ban some of the more over the top sillyness in 40k
3. Don't have to support GW trying to take business from the FLGS
4. Pisses you off.

1. GW's "excessive" release schedule is not unique to dataslates. Hell, I just bought the 6th edition SM codex less than one year ago and I've already had to replace it. Previous editions had nothing on GW's new blistering pace. Banning dataslates won't help here.
2. Most of the "over the top silliness" in 40k is available in the basic printed codices. Tigurius with grav Centurions, Eldar scatterlaser spam, Necron Decurion, Skiitari and Cult Mechanicus Battle Maniple ... these things are all in physical codices available at any FLGS.
3. GW does perfectly well taking business from FLGSes all by themselves. This sort of blanket ban (or really any ban like this outside of a tournament is going to drive business from the FLGS to GW's webstore.
4. Wow. Rude.

If a player has an issue with any digidex or dataslate I have purchased (as in its authenticity) I offer to download and replace it on the spot. If they still have an issue with it, I just play someone else or go somewhere else. The need to keep up with every dex or slate isn't on the store or club, its on the player looking to use it.

So what's the issue?

 Carnage43 wrote:
1. Don't have to keep up to date on the somewhat excessive dataslate release schedule
2. Ban some of the more over the top sillyness in 40k
3. Don't have to support GW trying to take business from the FLGS
4. Pisses you off.

All seems like valid and good reason to ban them to me.

There's going to be some collateral damage with any manner of wide spread banning, and frankly, SOBs is a small price to pay in this guy's opinion.

To put it politely and not break rule #1: people like you are a big part of what is wrong with the 40k community. Please don't play other games and bring this attitude to other communities.

 dracpanzer wrote:
If a player has an issue with any digidex or dataslate I have purchased (as in its authenticity) I offer to download and replace it on the spot. If they still have an issue with it, I just play someone else or go somewhere else. The need to keep up with every dex or slate isn't on the store or club, its on the player looking to use it.

So what's the issue?

The issue is that the store bans them from use in the store, period, and it's the only store in town. No where else to go within reasonable distance, as I take it from reading the thread.

Someone just needs to make a board in their basement and invite everyone over, then.

 Melissia wrote:

 Ir0njack wrote:
Honestly its not that big a deal *for me and other regulars from what I've seen atleast* like I've said, I've only seen it really enforced during tournaments.

So basically you want to completely ban my army, which is already by no means a top tier army or one very well supported by GW to begin with, for no benefit whatsoever.

There, fixed that for you. If your going to quote me, please keep it in context. I stated my stance on the matter and "from what I've seen" other's stances. Now if your a SOB player I'd think that a exception could be made in as they only possess a digital codex for a entire army " And a long standing and liked one at that". But then again its not my store or my rules I deal with what I get dealt if I can't change it

 j31c3n wrote:
Someone just needs to make a board in their basement and invite everyone over, then.

Or talk to the people in the shop about making a club, then see about local funding and club locales. In a lot of countries the city will provide for a "club house" if you have enough young people and fill in the proper forms. It keeps the deranged tabletop players off the streets and off the marijuanas, you see.

 j31c3n wrote:
Someone just needs to make a board in their basement and invite everyone over, then.

Yeah that is how I've dealt with annoying store owner rules and muchkin players. I have my own 4x8 table at home, a ton of scenery and a group of friends who approach the game the same way I do. All good and all open minded and willing to see new data slates, units and even forgeworld on the table without panic or complaint. Takes a while to collect a good bit of scenery, but slowly but surely you will eventually have plenty to use.

Sad when the primary location for gaming in an area imposes rules on folks that ruin their enjoyment of the hobby.

Skriker

In all fairness, I had no idea there would be so many strong opinions on the subject. I agree this hobby is great, and I thank everyone for the input. I have learned this is not common practice, and will engage store owner on it, but bottom line up front is, other than my garage in the hot oklahoma heat, it is the best place to play, with nice people that come to the store. The store owner is not a turd and is awesome to talk with. He is passionate about the hobby, just not about digital content apparently.

I thank everyone for the input though. Iron jack, gonna see you at the tourny on Sunday??

 Ir0njack wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Ir0njack wrote:
Honestly its not that big a deal *for me and other regulars from what I've seen atleast* like I've said, I've only seen it really enforced during tournaments.

So basically you want to completely ban my army, which is already by no means a top tier army or one very well supported by GW to begin with, for no benefit whatsoever.

There, fixed that for you. If your going to quote me, please keep it in context. I stated my stance on the matter and "from what I've seen" other's stances. Now if your a SOB player I'd think that a exception could be made in as they only possess a digital codex for a entire army " And a long standing and liked one at that". But then again its not my store or my rules I deal with what I get dealt if I can't change it

Spoken like a true American!

That's a dangerously apathetic outlook. You just lay back and accept that it's "his store" and "his rules" and that means he gets to tell you how to play because you're out of options? "First, they came for the Sisters of Battle, and I did not speak out..."

 Jambles wrote:

 Ir0njack wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Ir0njack wrote:
Honestly its not that big a deal *for me and other regulars from what I've seen atleast* like I've said, I've only seen it really enforced during tournaments.

So basically you want to completely ban my army, which is already by no means a top tier army or one very well supported by GW to begin with, for no benefit whatsoever.

There, fixed that for you. If your going to quote me, please keep it in context. I stated my stance on the matter and "from what I've seen" other's stances. Now if your a SOB player I'd think that a exception could be made in as they only possess a digital codex for a entire army " And a long standing and liked one at that". But then again its not my store or my rules I deal with what I get dealt if I can't change it

Spoken like a true American!

That's a dangerously apathetic outlook. You just lay back and accept that it's "his store" and "his rules" and that means he gets to tell you how to play because you're out of options? "First, they came for the Sisters of Battle, and I did not speak out..."

I think Breat Brittain would speak to our stance lol.

 Ir0njack wrote:
But then again its not my store or my rules I deal with what I get dealt if I can't change it

And I just go to a different store and tell everyone to not visit the store run by a jackass-- don't buy anything from them, they're a gakky store.

And they are. Utter gak.

 Ir0njack wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Ir0njack wrote:
Honestly its not that big a deal *for me and other regulars from what I've seen atleast* like I've said, I've only seen it really enforced during tournaments.

So basically you want to completely ban my army, which is already by no means a top tier army or one very well supported by GW to begin with, for no benefit whatsoever.

There, fixed that for you. If your going to quote me, please keep it in context. I stated my stance on the matter and "from what I've seen" other's stances. Now if your a SOB player I'd think that a exception could be made in as they only possess a digital codex for a entire army " And a long standing and liked one at that". But then again its not my store or my rules I deal with what I get dealt if I can't change it

I think this goes plenty far to show what kind of 'good guys' are at this store. Clearly, the problems are deeper than just the owner's own stupid policy.

OP, I'm very sorry that this is your best place to play and the best friends you have to play with.

 Jambles wrote:

 Ir0njack wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Ir0njack wrote:
Honestly its not that big a deal *for me and other regulars from what I've seen atleast* like I've said, I've only seen it really enforced during tournaments.

So basically you want to completely ban my army, which is already by no means a top tier army or one very well supported by GW to begin with, for no benefit whatsoever.

There, fixed that for you. If your going to quote me, please keep it in context. I stated my stance on the matter and "from what I've seen" other's stances. Now if your a SOB player I'd think that a exception could be made in as they only possess a digital codex for a entire army " And a long standing and liked one at that". But then again its not my store or my rules I deal with what I get dealt if I can't change it

Spoken like a true American!

That's a dangerously apathetic outlook. You just lay back and accept that it's "his store" and "his rules" and that means he gets to tell you how to play because you're out of options? "First, they came for the Sisters of Battle, and I did not speak out..."

You should be free to voice your opinion on it but the store owner is free to not give a damn, as well as free to fail and lose his business.