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Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

You're still at it, so more than three pages. Idk what you're attempting to prove with necrons that hasn't already been debunked several times.

You're still at it, so more than three pages. I don't know what you're attempting to prove with Orks that hasn't already been debunked several times.

Attempting to prove nothing. It's all been proven. Be original or leave the thread, please

Right back at you.

Thanks for the quote.

So, can we assume that both 'they would crush everyone if they united' quotes cancel out each other, and instead just look at it from a logical basis?

Sounds like a good assumption to run with.

I would like to make another point again. One that is being ignored every time it is brought up.
Necrons only exist in the Milky Way.
Orks have colonised the Universe. Apart from Tyranids, they are the only race to exist outside of this one Galaxy. There are Billions of Galaxies, containing possibly Trillions of Orks.
There is no way, even with every fancy gizmo in the universe and pseudo God like powers, that the Necrons could even begin to touch that.
Orks win.

 r_squared wrote:
I would like to make another point again. One that is being ignored every time it is brought up.
Necrons only exist in the Milky Way.
Orks have colonised the Universe. Apart from Tyranids, they are the only race to exist outside of this one Galaxy. There are Billions of Galaxies, containing possibly Trillions of Orks.
There is no way, even with every fancy gizmo in the universe and pseudo God like powers, that the Necrons could even begin to touch that.
Orks win.

Orks have never actually been said to exist outside the galaxy to my knowledge.
And no, the probe fluff you're thinking of doesn't say that

 Ashiraya wrote:

Spoiler:

Animus wrote:

 ProwlerPC wrote:
I can't refute that point. I have to agree that passage only puts the Orks in a theoretical position while the others are assumed to be in current state. I don't want to fall into the logical fallacy of 'the lack of evidence equals evidence' but I kind of want to assume that the authors would state in some way that 'should the Necron dynasties ever unite they would clean the galaxy of squatters' or something to that effect. I'll be the first to say that this wouldn't hold ground in a strict court of law but like a shrewd lawyer before a jury I figure I'd toss that bit on the table for the audience nonetheless.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Given the sheer power they were throwing around in the War in Heaven, I do not think they need to actually state it.

They do.

Ask and you shall receive.

Codex Necrons wrote:Only one hope can now preserve the other races from the Necrons' implacable advance, from the endless legions of silent and deathless warriors rising from long-forgotten tombs. If the Necrons can be prevented from waking to their full glory, if the scattered Tomb Worlds can be prevented from unifying, then there is a chance of survival. If not, then the great powers of the galaxy will surely fall, and the Necrons shall rule supreme for eternity.

Thanks for the quote.

So, can we assume that both 'they would crush everyone if they united' quotes cancel out each other, and instead just look at it from a logical basis?

Makes sense, though at this point it's almost an "Immovable object - Unstoppable force" debate.

 r_squared wrote:
I would like to make another point again. One that is being ignored every time it is brought up.
Necrons only exist in the Milky Way.
Orks have colonised the Universe. Apart from Tyranids, they are the only race to exist outside of this one Galaxy. There are Billions of Galaxies, containing possibly Trillions of Orks.
There is no way, even with every fancy gizmo in the universe and pseudo God like powers, that the Necrons could even begin to touch that.
Orks win.

No, you're mis-reading or mis-remembering what has been said about Ork expansion.

What has been said (ages and ages ago) is that the AdMech sent an unmanned probe beyond the edge of the Milky Way and found Orky radio signals there. All this means is that the Orks have also gone past the edge of the Galaxy (as have the Necrons, as the Silent King did this).

Since the Tyranids have totally consumed at least 12 other galaxies, this would indicate that an entire Galaxy full of Orks was not capable of stopping the Hive Mind... which puts to rest the "united, the Orks can crush anyone!", because in this scenario it was all the Orks in the galaxy versus the Tyranids Hive Fleets... and the Orks apparently lost. Twelve times.

Wait, are you admitting/saying all twelve of those were in fact 100% infested with orks?

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Wait, are you admitting/saying all twelve of those were in fact 100% infested with orks?

Even if they were, they were exterminated by the Tyranids anyway, so why would this galaxy do better?

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Wait, are you admitting/saying all twelve of those were in fact 100% infested with orks?

Admitting? No, I'm taking the absurd claim that the Orks have populated the entire universe to posit that, even if this were true, an entire galaxy of Orks failed to stop the Tyranids (12 times).

Given that Tyranids actively avoid known Tomb Worlds, this does not bode well for the Orks.

 Psienesis wrote:
Since the Tyranids have totally consumed at least 12 other galaxies, this would indicate that an entire Galaxy full of Orks was not capable of stopping the Hive Mind... which puts to rest the "united, the Orks can crush anyone!", because in this scenario it was all the Orks in the galaxy versus the Tyranids Hive Fleets... and the Orks apparently lost. Twelve times.

Let's stay focused on what we do know and what's been said about this galaxy. Conjecture to this degree is hardly relevant, or helpful, to the debate here. We have no reason to believe the Orks have 100% infested all other galaxies, that's crazy. We have evidence to suggest that Orks exist outside the Milky Way. That's it. Moreover, we have no reason to assume that the galaxies consumed by the Tyranids are all the same ones with lots of Orks in them. There's plenty, and I mean plenty, of galaxies out there for the Tyranids to eat without ever coming into contact with Orks, even if they're extremely widespread.

 Anfauglir wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Since the Tyranids have totally consumed at least 12 other galaxies, this would indicate that an entire Galaxy full of Orks was not capable of stopping the Hive Mind... which puts to rest the "united, the Orks can crush anyone!", because in this scenario it was all the Orks in the galaxy versus the Tyranids Hive Fleets... and the Orks apparently lost. Twelve times.

Let's stay focused on what we do know and what's been said about this galaxy. Conjecture to this degree is hardly relevant, or helpful, to the debate here. We have no reason to believe the Orks have 100% infested all other galaxies, that's crazy. We have evidence to suggest that Orks exist outside the Milky Way. That's it. Moreover, we have no reason to assume that the galaxies consumed by the Tyranids are all the same ones with lots of Orks in them. There's plenty, and I mean plenty, of galaxies out there for the Tyranids to eat without ever coming into contact with Orks, even if they're extremely widespread.

If you read my entire post, you would see Im responding to someone who claimed that Orks have settled the entire Universe.

Very nice, ok so we got them both with confirmed apocalyptic fluff should either of them unite their races. This still remains interesting. I'm not ready to jump on the bandwagon that Orks are inhabiting every neighbouring galaxy quite yet. Both Immaterium and the Psykic races of the Milky Way are creations of the Old Ones. Despite one description convincing us the Warp is unfathomably mutable we also have descriptions that within the Warp it has finite borders and regions. While it doesn't come out and say it I feel the theory that the Immaterium/Warp is uniwue to the Milky Way is the most believable. If there are Ork beyond the Milky Way they wouldn't benefit from the Waaaagh!, no beacon to follow, no weirdboyz, and if correct then even their dakka wouldn't work no matter how positive they believe in it. They'd become feral. Tyranids wiped out 12 galaxies beforehand? Where did this number come from? Is this something like Failbaddon's '12 victories' (I fear that boy will experience an eternity of neverending 'victories' thanks to the whime of his puppetmasters.

If the Warp were unique to the Milky Way, the Hive Mind would be unable to exist within it as a psychic entity, since the Hive Mind is itself extragalactic.

Whoever claimed the orks have hold of every other galaxy I think is false. Now I do believe orks are in other galaxies however. I believe there are so many orks tt if every ork FROM other galaxies as well can to the milky way, that is where the "orks would take over" comes from

Tyranids wiped out 12 galaxies beforehand? Where did this number come from? Is this something like Failbaddon's '12 victories' (I fear that boy will experience an eternity of neverending 'victories' thanks to the whime of his puppetmasters.

Codex: Tyranids since, like, forever ago.

Psienesis is correct. That Tyranids have successfully devoured many galaxies before they reached the Milky Way has been an established part of the setting for as long as I have known of it, and more.

Orkz were made to fight necrons an C'tan so easy... ORKS!

Australia was made to kill humans, and look how that turned out. :p

 Psienesis wrote:

If you read my entire post, you would see Im responding to someone who claimed that Orks have settled the entire Universe.

I did read it. I followed the whole tangent, got as far as your "Tyranids ate 12 galaxies therefore Tyranids can wipe out 12 galaxies worth of Orks" spiral and thought it was time to rein it in. I know your comment was merely a "yeah but..." counter-point to the "Orks have conquered the Universe!" notion... so yeah. Let's get back to what's relevant.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Psienesis is correct. That Tyranids have successfully devoured many galaxies before they reached the Milky Way has been an established part of the setting for as long as I have known of it, and more.

But we don't know what was in those galaxies. How big they were, how far apart they were, etc. Conjecture over it is useless. We do know what's in the Milky Way in the 41st Millenium. Including the fact that the Orks are present in more parts of it than anything else, and that if all the Orks within it were ever to unite, they would proceed to sweep every other faction and race away in a giant green wave of stompy, smashy goodness. If they can do that, they can beat the Necrons in a one-v-one scenario.

 Anfauglir wrote:
We do know what's in the Milky Way in the 41st Millenium. Including the fact that the Orks are present in more parts of it than anything else, and that if all the Orks within it were ever to unite, they would proceed to sweep every other faction and race away in a giant green wave of stompy, smashy goodness. If they can do that, they can beat the Necrons in a one-v-one scenario.

Animus wrote:

Codex Necrons wrote:Only one hope can now preserve the other races from the Necrons' implacable advance, from the endless legions of silent and deathless warriors rising from long-forgotten tombs. If the Necrons can be prevented from waking to their full glory, if the scattered Tomb Worlds can be prevented from unifying, then there is a chance of survival. If not, then the great powers of the galaxy will surely fall, and the Necrons shall rule supreme for eternity.

Oh my, looks like Necrons can do that too.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Oh my, looks like Necrons can do that too.

Which, at best, brings us back to the "unstoppable force vs. immovable object" thing. At which point you have to turn to all those things I mentioned at the beginning, and most of all what many people have been saying since the beginning. Namely, Orks will win through sheer attrition. The Necrons are outnumbered and in decline, each body they lose/teleport away the more degraded they become and the Orks gain a little more ground. Until the tombs themselves are cracked open and trashed. Meanwhile the Orks will thrive off the carnage, the tougher the fight, the more they thrive, the harder the battle the harder they fight. The more tech is thrown at them, the more toys they churn out. Then there's the psychic energy. Enough to birth Ork deities and warp (literally) reality itself in ways we have never before seen/can imagine. Then, just is case it still isn't clear, there's a whole load more of them around the corner in the next wave. Then another, and another, and another, and another, and another...

 Anfauglir wrote:
The Necrons are outnumbered and in decline

Outnumbered, yes. In decline? No. A united Necron empire would not be in decline, not at all.

each body they lose/teleport away the more degraded they become

Which doesn't affect their combat abilities in the slighest, only emotions and the like.

Indeed, the Necron codex speaks of the Necrons as numerous to the point where they may outnumber humanity. In addition, each and every Necron is a powerful warrior, and they can churn out war automata at a prodigious rate. This is all assuming that the Orks make it into planetary combat, of course, instead of being utterly destroyed in space.

Yep, Orks win.
They always do, because they live to fight. They get bigger, and tougher, and multiply more, and keep going and nicking stuff and smashing gubbinz.
The Necrons will eventually just throw their toys about, then flounce off to their tomb worlds for another long sulk.

But, this time the boyz will keep coming, and turn what's left of the tomb worlds into tinfoil hats.

Plus da boyz might not own the whole ooniverse yet, but they will. Plenty of uvva stuff to give a good kicking too.

If you could stop using slow talk, it'd be nice.

 Bobthehero wrote:
If you could stop using slow talk, it'd be nice.

He is just having some fun. He didn't offend anyone. If you don't like it, don't read the thread. Anyway he has a point. Technically orks do win, because orks don't ever lose, even if they all died, they'd die fighting, which is a win. So.. orks really do, in the end, regardless of any text or factual arguement from the necrons side, win.

I am sure that once there is nothing but Ork corpses left, they will be most pleased with their victory - they died fighting, after all.

Assuming any corpses are left that is. Gauss weapons for ya.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
If you could stop using slow talk, it'd be nice.

He is just having some fun. He didn't offend anyone. If you don't like it, don't read the thread. Anyway he has a point. Technically orks do win, because orks don't ever lose, even if they all died, they'd die fighting, which is a win. So.. orks really do, in the end, regardless of any text or factual arguement from the necrons side, win.

No, that's just the most idiotic thing to ever plague 40k being re-hashed over and over, seriously, and everyone would win if orks died out and were squatted, sure as sure.

 Ashiraya wrote:
I am sure that once there is nothing but Ork corpses left, they will be most pleased with their victory - they died fighting, after all.

Assuming any corpses are left that is. Gauss weapons for ya.

This guy gets it!

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
If you could stop using slow talk, it'd be nice.

He is just having some fun. He didn't offend anyone. If you don't like it, don't read the thread. Anyway he has a point. Technically orks do win, because orks don't ever lose, even if they all died, they'd die fighting, which is a win. So.. orks really do, in the end, regardless of any text or factual arguement from the necrons side, win.

Eh, in that train of thought, the Wardcrom codex provides one incident the Orks definitely did not win as in they didn't die fighting, they didn't run away to fight another day, nor did they win a fight.

Said incident involves one ork getting too curious for his own good and pops open the containment chamber of a "gifted" Necron doomsday ark to see how it works. Breaching said containment chamber results in the entire planet and all the orks on it getting vaporized. Doesn't meet the criteria for the Ork definition of a win. So no, the orks don't always win and there are plenty of ways to deny orks a victory in any sense of the word. Just takes a little creativity.