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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/29 00:16:08
Subject: Warhammer 40k Vs Mass Effect
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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Hoyt wrote:
You mean a completely different (now obsolete) ship? Their fleet was originally much weaker than the imperium's (I even said as much), but the new fleet is a match.
That class was born out lessons learned in the Damacles crusade and failed to match a Light Cruiser. Can't find anymore info on any new ships the tau have developed, probably because BFG isn't being made anymore.
Read the taros campaign then. First edition mind you, they, and the epic rules, were cut out of the new one.
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Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote:Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote:Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens BaronIveagh wrote:Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/29 00:19:09
Subject: Warhammer 40k Vs Mass Effect
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Co'tor Shas wrote: Hoyt wrote:
You mean a completely different (now obsolete) ship? Their fleet was originally much weaker than the imperium's (I even said as much), but the new fleet is a match.
That class was born out lessons learned in the Damacles crusade and failed to match a Light Cruiser. Can't find anymore info on any new ships the tau have developed, probably because BFG isn't being made anymore.
Read the taros campaign then. First edition mind you, they, and the epic rules, were cut out of the new one.
They are a battleship, not because of their class, but because that is the largest ship the tau have and has the largest fire power.
It did not say anywhere about them taking out an emperor class battleship, or even an ironclad.
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From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/29 00:20:28
Subject: Warhammer 40k Vs Mass Effect
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Douglas Bader
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Hoyt wrote:It is a battleship in the same way Emperor-class Battleship, a mixture of both a carrier and a battleship, it is currently as far as as I'm aware the most powerful Tau vessel, with the most firepower.
But the Tau favor missiles and bomber squadrons, both of which are long-range weapons. Obviously the Tau carrier had some guns of its own, but it's still a carrier that is meant to stand off at a safe distance and destroy stuff with the missiles/ships it launches. But even in an unfavorable situation where it had to fight up close it was still an even match for a cruiser and a battlecruiser.
The Tau had their own escorts as well, and the damage to the battlecruiser was repaired, so it couldn't have been too significant, after losing the Lunar-class, the Overlord then re-engaged and destroyed the Custodian. Not very impressive for being armed with the Tau's best weaponry.
The battlecruiser was explicitly damaged heavily enough to require shipyard repairs before returning to service, so all "it was repaired" really tells us is that it wasn't blasted into drifting wreckage. It was clearly not superficial damage.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/29 00:22:46
Subject: Warhammer 40k Vs Mass Effect
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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Asherian Command wrote:Edit: also, I note that lexicanum seems to only use SM codex as a source, where as the tau codex is the only place where this info is.
So it is techinically propaganda or is it truth?
Remember unreliable narrator.
No, It's just that the wiki hasn't been updated yet.
Edit: also, looking over IA3, it specifically says it the largest ship "yet encountered", leading for the possibility of new ships (and this is the tau, so that's pretty normal). Not useful on a the basis of comparison, but important nevertheless.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/29 00:26:27
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote:Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote:Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens BaronIveagh wrote:Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/29 00:23:54
Subject: Warhammer 40k Vs Mass Effect
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Horrific Howling Banshee
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Peregrine wrote:
...
You do realize that the class was created by FW in IA3 and so far only has a single other mention (a brief note in the old Tyranid codex), right?
If in IA3, it is explicitly stated that it is a pure carrier, then why is every reference I find, it's called a Battleship with the ability to deploy fighter and bomber squadrons?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/29 00:24:36
Subject: Warhammer 40k Vs Mass Effect
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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No, It's just that the wiki hasn't been updated yet.
Probably But eh, who cares its a freaking class of a ship in a fantasy universe. Lets get back to what really matters which one will win in a fight to the death. Actually lets make this fun, what would our ideal fights be like in the mass effect universe? Automatically Appended Next Post: Hoyt wrote: Peregrine wrote:
...
You do realize that the class was created by FW in IA3 and so far only has a single other mention (a brief note in the old Tyranid codex), right?
If in IA3, it is explicitly stated that it is a pure carrier, then why is every reference I find, it's called a Battleship with the ability to deploy fighter and bomber squadrons?
The same reason why some of the carriers in the imperial fleet are called battleships when they are quite clearly Carriers.
Its just idiots being idiots I think.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/06/29 00:25:49
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/29 00:32:28
Subject: Warhammer 40k Vs Mass Effect
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Douglas Bader
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Hoyt wrote:If in IA3, it is explicitly stated that it is a pure carrier, then why is every reference I find, it's called a Battleship with the ability to deploy fighter and bomber squadrons?
Rules-wise in BFG it is a battleship, probably because there's no separate "large carrier" class and it wouldn't be worth inventing one just for the Tau. In the fluff IA3 consistently calls it a carrier, not a battleship.
Also, don't forget that Taros was essentially an early combat test for the new ship classes. So it's likely that the "modern" Tau fleet is even more capable, having incorporated the lessons learned at Taros into the newest designs.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/29 00:32:57
Subject: Warhammer 40k Vs Mass Effect
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Horrific Howling Banshee
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Asherian Command wrote:
No, It's just that the wiki hasn't been updated yet.
Probably
But eh, who cares its a freaking class of a ship in a fantasy universe.
Lets get back to what really matters which one will win in a fight to the death. Actually lets make this fun, what would our ideal fights be like in the mass effect universe?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hoyt wrote: Peregrine wrote:
...
You do realize that the class was created by FW in IA3 and so far only has a single other mention (a brief note in the old Tyranid codex), right?
If in IA3, it is explicitly stated that it is a pure carrier, then why is every reference I find, it's called a Battleship with the ability to deploy fighter and bomber squadrons?
The same reason why some of the carriers in the imperial fleet are called battleships when they are quite clearly Carriers.
Its just idiots being idiots I think.
Yeah, GW's writers aren't usually consistent or completely logical.
Back to the thread, the 40k races would eventually figure how to utilize the mass relays (doesn't require eezo, only the ship sending info about the ships mass to the relay).
ME can't match any 40k race in combat, so its just a matter of who has enough interest in conquering the ME races. I think the Imperium might be stretched too thin to send significant forces Automatically Appended Next Post: Peregrine wrote: Hoyt wrote:If in IA3, it is explicitly stated that it is a pure carrier, then why is every reference I find, it's called a Battleship with the ability to deploy fighter and bomber squadrons?
Rules-wise in BFG it is a battleship, probably because there's no separate "large carrier" class and it wouldn't be worth inventing one just for the Tau. In the fluff IA3 consistently calls it a carrier, not a battleship.
Also, don't forget that Taros was essentially an early combat test for the new ship classes. So it's likely that the "modern" Tau fleet is even more capable, having incorporated the lessons learned at Taros into the newest designs.
Were the new ships prototypes? Or are they in full production? The Taros campaign was in 998.M41, I don't know if Tau industry can fully modernise their fleets before the current "date" of 999
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/29 00:35:51
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/29 00:41:19
Subject: Warhammer 40k Vs Mass Effect
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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ME can't match any 40k race in combat, so its just a matter of who has enough interest in conquering the ME races. I think the Imperium might be stretched too thin to send significant forces
might be a great place to start over for the imperium.
They might be willing for basically a safe zone where even chaos can't reach them. Its a dream come true for the imperium.
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From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/29 00:41:23
Subject: Warhammer 40k Vs Mass Effect
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Douglas Bader
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Hoyt wrote:Were the new ships prototypes? Or are they in full production? The Taros campaign was in 998.M41, I don't know if Tau industry can fully modernise their fleets before the current "date" of 999
IA3 kind of ambiguously says "first full-scale deployment" for the new classes and mentions Taros being used as a testing ground, with increased production and use to follow. Other than that AFAIK there's no explicit statement that things have improved. And TBH the dates are kind of unclear, given that the Tigershark AX-1-0 is in the same "initial field testing" stage at Taros but in later sources is a normal part of the Tau army. So pretty clearly more than a year must have passed since Taros.
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/29 00:45:47
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k Vs Mass Effect
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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Sort of but sort of not. They had existed for a while, but this was the first time they were seen in significant numbers, other than just individual ships. I'll have to look into it more
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Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote:Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote:Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens BaronIveagh wrote:Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/29 00:50:08
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k Vs Mass Effect
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Co'tor Shas wrote:Sort of but sort of not. They had existed for a while, but this was the first time they were seen in significant numbers, other than just individual ships. I'll have to look into it more
Yeah the limited lore that there is on it.
We really don't know that much. Lets just drop it though
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From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/29 00:57:24
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k Vs Mass Effect
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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Aww, but Love arguing about tau.
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Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote:Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote:Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens BaronIveagh wrote:Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/29 01:14:23
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k Vs Mass Effect
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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I love the tau, cool race, but they aren't as evolved as the other races.
But they are certaintly going to give the turains the run for their money. Though they will resist. As is their customs.
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From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/29 01:44:27
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k Vs Mass Effect
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Horrific Howling Banshee
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I think the Tau would be very interested in making the Mass Effect races join the greater good, as they would make great cannon fodder.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/29 01:48:27
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k Vs Mass Effect
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Hoyt wrote:I think the Tau would be very interested in making the Mass Effect races join the greater good, as they would make great cannon fodder.
They would also love to make mass relays and replicate it. Man, warp travel would be gone and the imperium would become really well connected.
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From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/29 01:57:33
Subject: Warhammer 40k Vs Mass Effect
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Commoragh-bound Peer
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Yay now that we're back on track, I was curious, but there are certain benefits with having biotics around, one being they can be produced in great numbers. Well greater than Psykers, and they don't carry perils of the warp around with them, which is also good.
Having a squad of five to ten, all armed as well would be pretty useful in their own way, being able to throw their enemy off balance in battle and let other units free themselves up or take advantage to cripple an enemy force.
Another thing to note is that biotics can form barriers against missiles and high calibre weapons, it was shown in ME3 during the Thessia mission. A powerful enough biotic could provide static defence against an enemy,
I have to agree with the statement before in regards to the Imperium being stretched thin, actually that's kind of why I said before they only had to deal with 81 sectors, being only a smaller threat it didn't seem necessary to pool staggering amounts of resources for an attack, wasting a whole segmentum would be reckless as well as dangerous. That doesn't mean that they don't have cause or reason not to go on the offensive, it's just that they don't have the resources to hold another galaxy. Also the dangerous prospect of what would happen if people learnt that there was a reality in which the Imperium never existed and that everyone's pretty much free to go about their business? Rogue Traders might jump at the prospect of getting free from the Imperium, some planets or people might like to get out of reach. An undercurrent of support may exist for secession, you can't keep an eye on every single human being in the entire universe that's fact.
As for the ME races, there are very few points of entry into their galaxy, only three being used regularly, one is declared too dangerous to go anywhere near, another hidden away by the Salarians, and a couple of more stuck around the galaxy. The Tau have their eyes set on the Turians, which could go either way, the Turians aren't necessarily sure whether or not the Tau will either leave them alone after a while or keep on the offensive. Other races are trying to reach a settlement with the Tau, though that hasn't gotten anywhere either.
The Geth are busy building more units to fight for themselves, seeing as how they had access to the extranet and have been sending their own ships into Council space to perform reconnaissance, they've been trying to figure out a means of matching future threats. And with their sheer resources and endless toil they're probably going to be able to go toe to toe with some more dangerous races, given enough time and development.
Quarians are currently attempting to reverse engineer whatever they can from the wrecks of escort vessels from the Imperial Navy, with little success, though they're determined, they could probably sell what they learn back to the other races for a price, which makes sense if they intend to go ahead with their insane ideals for reviving their people.
The only faction in direct confrontation with the Imperium would be the Systems Alliance, technically they're on full scale war, the Imperium is only deploying skirmish forces, which in comparison seem to be more than capable of matching Alliance military forces on the planets they're currently attacking. The only difference is that the Alliance seems to hold their own in terms of mobile warfare, though they get their stuffing kicked in if the Imperium launches a full scale offensive with as much firepower they can bring to bear.
Mako tanks have a surprising number of kills thanks to speed and maneuverability, 155mm hyper velocity rail guns can cut through the tough armoured shells of Leman Russ battle tanks, couple with the fact that Mako's can jump and move at insanely high speeds, it makes up for their lack of protection against the Leman Russ's Vanquishers and tank hunter orientated weapons like lascannons.
Aerial warfare does fall somewhat in favor of the Alliance, once again thanks to maneuverability and speed, but they don't have sufficient protection against lascannons, they can still inflict a frightening amount of damage though, having the ability to destroy ground targets like vehicles. Hydra's cannot take down the Alliance fighters quite so easily, flak being flak can't penetrate the kinetic shields on the craft, and even if someone get's lucky and hits a fighter, it won't always go down.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/06/29 02:29:56
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/29 12:48:37
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k Vs Mass Effect
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Horrific Howling Banshee
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Mako's could probably penetrate Leman Russ side amour, problem is, the Alliance's ground forces are tiny compared to the average amount of forces the Guard throw around on a regular basis. Their industrial capacity isn't stellar and I doubt they can replace losses quickly enough. Though in cities, which most of the fighting would probably take place (AFAIK even big Alliance colonies are only centered around a handful of large cities because during the time of the games they are rushing to build colonies in the Skyllian Verge, leaving many to be underdeveloped) in cities, in which the guard have a major advantage, lasgun's ignore kinetic barriers and are powerful to slice human's arms off. Mass Effect small arms don't appear to be that much more powerful than modern small arms. IIRC in ME1 & ME2 you do fight unarmoured humans and they didn't take much rounds to put down. Flak Armour would definitely provide protection against them. Add to that their military doctrine is to only leave token forces on planets, who scout the enemy and call for reinforcements, the already decimated Alliance Fleets would be hard pressed to get through Imperial blockades.
It's only a matter of time before the Alliance falls, Emperor help them if Space Marines are deployed.
The Turians would also not last long against the Tau, won't be long before their part of the Empire.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/29 13:09:05
Subject: Warhammer 40k Vs Mass Effect
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Commoragh-bound Peer
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I don't think gameplay mechanics would work with ME here, because the description given by the novels is variably different from that of the game. In the comics a hand cannon could punch clean through a Turian in close range, and they're usually encased in full armour and their bodies are structurally stronger than that of the human physiology.
Also the weapons did change somewhat, at least in the sense they hit harder now than modern firearms. Though I'd say that they shatter on contact to spread damage about, since a projectile moving too fast with too much force would over-penetrate and pass through their target instead of inflicting damage.
They're more powerful than modern firearms and they can fire a lot more than lasguns, keep in mind that even if their guns can't penetrate flak armour it would definite cause shock damage. Enough to break more than a few bones if they're getting hit by larger projectiles.
And don't forget that the ME universe does have heavier weapons than just Mass Accelerators like the Cain, and the Vortex projectors, which generate incredibly dense gravity wells.
In certain situations it wouldn't be hard to use droids to act as a surplus force to defend colonies under threat of attack, it would certainly delay the Guard from overrunning them outright.
As for what you said about their industrial capacity, are you serious man? Who said that their industry lacked? If that was true they'd never have gotten a seat on the Council, the issue is that the Council seriously curtailed any hope of the Alliance surpassing them in terms of military strength.
Also the Alliance lives through mostly a peaceful periods resulting in humanity just growing complacent, which most people seem fine with. Heck it was mentioned that the Turians honestly feared that if man had wanted to really start a war, it could.
Humanity has the ability, it just doesn't utilize it all that much, which is kind of the reason why they got their stuffing kicked in during the Reaper War, initially.
Don't underestimate your enemy's ability to survive, the Imperium knows very little about the ME universe, and there are ways to keep them from getting to every human colony out there. Lets not forget Quantum Entanglement Communicators exist man, if they need to call for help, they can.
Another thing to also note is that there are far too many worlds in ME to go anywhere near, if the Alliance finds a planet far away from the main clusters, they'll probably use it as an emergency evacuation world to hide what people they can.
Patience can pay off a lot, in the long term.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/06/29 13:43:39
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40k Vs Mass Effect
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Horrific Howling Banshee
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The only hard numbers I find on ME small arms is this; https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/mass-effect-small-arms.177227/
Point is, Alliance marines are probably on par with guardsmen. The Cain was experimental in ME2 and we don't really know if it was mass produced, besides the one time we use it in ME3.
As for their industry, I meant they won't be replacing ship losses quickly enough, though it probably wouldn't matter because Imperial ships are practically invulnerable to mass effect weapons.
Yes, if the Alliance had a year or two to prepare they could gear themselves to total war and boost their numbers but its irrelevant when facing an enemy which their smallest ships can slaughter the largest Reaper ships like they're nothing.
Point is the Alliance will lose, they cannot win this conventionally, they can run and hide but they will only delay the inevitable.
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