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Disregard sorry. For a min landraiders were $130.

 George Spiggott wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
You understand that the two models I showed were created for the exact same range, roughly a year apart, with the only difference being CAD(Alguacile--model on the right in bare metal) versus hand sculpt(Wildcat--model on the left, basecoated brown) right?

Which goes into what I put in my post: scale creep is very real for Infinity, and it centers around CAD v. Handsculpt.

You've just done what I specified was insufficient to prove scale creep. One small figure and one large figure does not make scale creep.

Maybe if you hadn't picked one of smallest figures from the box as your first exhibit.

Spoiler:

You understand that the reason I posted that specific model was dealing with the fact that I was focused primarily upon showcasing the nonsense of the "average" Wildcat model from the Corregidor starter pack(the only one who is male and closest to genuinely standing straight), who are wearing armor plates and armored voidsuits, being tiny compared to the new Alguaciles(Light Infantry who are wearing nothing but a chestplate over their work suit) right?

In any case, you can keep pretending that what I showed was "insufficient to prove scale creep". The vast majority of Infinity players have made mention of it before, and I've said my piece on my reasons for being so upset about the whole situation to begin with before.

Have fun being wrong in any case.

 Kanluwen wrote:

You understand that the reason I posted that specific model was dealing with the fact that I was focused primarily upon showcasing the nonsense of the "average" Wildcat model from the Corregidor starter pack(the only one who is male and closest to genuinely standing straight), who are wearing armor plates and armored voidsuits, being tiny compared to the new Alguaciles(Light Infantry who are wearing nothing but a chestplate over their work suit) right?

In any case, you can keep pretending that what I showed was "insufficient to prove scale creep". The vast majority of Infinity players have made mention of it before, and I've said my piece on my reasons for being so upset about the whole situation to begin with before.

Have fun being wrong in any case.

Yes they're wearing armour plates and such yet they're still smaller than other models from the same box who are not (hacker). The Nomad model is clearly wearing some sort of padded armour, the only difference is the shoulder pads. You need to try looking at the models you have, The scale of the miniature was variable within the same box, that's not scale creep. By the way all those Corregidor minis are wearing soft plimsolls or they have freakishly undersized feet. You have literally no idea what you're talking about so save your taunts pal.

No, I do not want GW to fail. There is no replacement for GW as a unpainted model company that makes product I want to buy. I don't have faith in any other company to make new impressive multi-part models with variations, most everybody else just copies something GW didn't do great or dropped. I have not seen any producer pumping out Mortis Engine, Celestial Hurricanum, and Stegadon qualty kits or Islands of Blood/Drak Vengeance starter sets.

Everybody else wants the money, but I dont see their limited product lines as worth putting money into. Game with whatever model you want, but GW to me is the best producer. If they had not started increasing the quality of their kits I would have dropped Warhammer kits altogether. I been burned by buying crappy GW models aswell though(mostly older stuff). They have made an impressive comeback in my book(Granted I cherry pick models)

If they fail, I doubt anybody would even try and come up with new stuff. Cutting the amount of money investment for fantasy infantry, per-army, would be the best thing GW could do. I also don't worship the oop models

JNC wrote:
No, I do not want GW to fail. There is no replacement for GW as a unpainted model company that makes product I want to buy. I don't have faith in any other company to make new impressive multi-part models with variations, most everybody else just copies something GW didn't do great or dropped. I have not seen any producer pumping out Mortis Engine, Celestial Hurricanum, and Stegadon qualty kits or Islands of Blood/Drak Vengeance starter sets.

Everybody else wants the money, but I dont see their limited product lines as worth putting money into. Game with whatever model you want, but GW to me is the best producer. If they had not started increasing the quality of their kits I would have dropped Warhammer kits altogether. I been burned by buying crappy GW models aswell though(mostly older stuff). They have made an impressive comeback in my book(Granted I cherry pick models)

If they fail, I doubt anybody would even try and come up with new stuff. Cutting the amount of money investment for fantasy infantry, per-army, would be the best thing GW could do. I also don't worship the oop models

The creators of Warzone: Ressurection would like to have word with you.

I do not hope that GW will fail, but it should fall atleast hard enough to cast out the whole managment layer, plus some rule designers.
What should be especially neccessary for GW's managment, is that it realises that tabletop wargaming is and probably will stay an niche market.

@JNC - I, like you, place extraordinary weight in the importance of the models, and I happen to like GW kits very much.

If I were to assign importance to various aspects of the hobby on a scale of 1 to 10, I would rank quality of rules at 3, quality of fluff at 5, and quality of models at 10. It really trumps everything by so much that I can live with anything else as long as the models are awesome. In addition, I place size of collection at 7 -- I won't invest more than a pittance in a collection that is small.

The reason that I place such a small priority to rules quality is because the number of pickup games I play is almost zero, and in a private setting, it's easy to fix, whereas you can't 'fix' the models in a collection you don't like. To me, the rules and fluff are a context for the models; rather than the models being pieces for a game. (case in point, I haven't played with most of my PP models, but I keep buying and paintig them).

Other than an aesthetic and model quality that I personally really like, I like configurable kits a lot. I spend a TON of time deciding how to build 40k buildings, space marines, tanks, etc. Just the planning is a hobby for me.

 Azreal13 wrote:

Relapse wrote:

Nkcell wrote:

Relapse wrote:


No doubt, your critical thinking skills have led you to a decades long internationally successful business. Tell all of us non critical thinkers of it and the secret to how you made your millions.

You misunderstand. GW has nailed their strategy to a tee, and clearly has some shrewd businessmen behind it. It's the playerbase who buys into their awful system that lack the critical thinking skills. As I said to the other poster, this is why I'm criticizing the players and defenders of GW. Buying their models because you really just love them is one thing, but defending the company after they show such clear unmarked contempt for their players is something I just can't wrap my head around.

I ask you again, what have you created, based on your great knowledge, that people are interested in enough to fork over to you several millions in cash? Or are you just someone who has nothing to offer except telling people they're stupid for liking something?

Ah, the Swiss Variation of the "I know you are, but what am I?" defence.

Clever girl.

In other words - 'You don't need to be a carpenter to know the roof is leaking'.

Even if I had never tarred a roof, it is easy to know that water dripping from the ceiling is a bad thing....

The Auld Grump - until last year I had never hot tarred a roof....

I don't wish for GW to fail. I like the pre-AoS fantasy and 40k IP. But I hope Age of Sigmar is enough of a failure to make them wake up to how far they have fallen.

@George Spiggot: please explain to me where i have so wrongly understood your definition of scale creep....

i pointed out the Chaos Dwarves, who have gone from the original Chaos Centaurs, to the bigger Bull Centaurs, then on to the even bigger FW Bull Centaurs...
the same with Space Marines, as each generation of mini has gotten a little bigger, until we have a huge difference in size between the original RT Beakie box, and the 2013 Tac. Squad...
anyway, what is the big deal with me liking the move to slightly larger minis as the years have gone by???

@Nkcell: you think i am a selfish customer for enjoying GW minis...
ok, i can't argue with your personal opinion, because you have already made up your mind, without even knowing me...
it is a shame, too, because my whole purpose in this hobby is to provide my clients with beautiful paintjobs that make them happy...
i try to do something positive, and can't see that as a bad thing...

cheers
jah

Scale creep:





My opinion, Signature size to represent a superhuman is perfect. RT Space marine is very small, no bigger than RT Guard

How did this thread get to 16 pages without someone correcting the painful spelling error in the title?

Anyway, I've stopped hoping that GW goes under because it's kind of spiteful. You know, if you like the stuff GW is producing good for you, enjoy yourself. I just think it's garbage.

I do hope that other games keep rising in popularity, and maybe that one day a different company will have the number one spot.

chaosmarauder wrote:I think this line of thinking is getting old and has been done to pieces, we get it - some people hate GW - just let it go and understand that a huge amount of people love their product.

New AOS looks awesome, give it a chance for gods sake if not ur doing yourself a disservice.

I like how both sides in combat have to take battleshock tests, that each unit has a set to hit and to wound roll, that each army entry has all special rules listed for it, and each turn you roll to see who goes first.

And they did a free downloadable codex for every single old army! What more could you want?!

And those rules are nothing - NOTHING - that you can't find in a wide range of other wargames rules where the author was actually allowed to give a fig about rules quality or balance. Including some that you can slot your AoS minis into.

You do yourself a disservice if you don't give them a chance.

JNC wrote:No, I do not want GW to fail. There is no replacement for GW as a unpainted model company that makes product I want to buy. I don't have faith in any other company to make new impressive multi-part models with variations, most everybody else just copies something GW didn't do great or dropped. I have not seen any producer pumping out Mortis Engine, Celestial Hurricanum, and Stegadon qualty kits or Islands of Blood/Drak Vengeance starter sets.

And now you won't see GW pump them out either.

 Mysterious Pants wrote:
How did this thread get to 16 pages without someone correcting the painful spelling error in the title?

Anyway, I've stopped hoping that GW goes under because it's kind of spiteful. You know, if you like the stuff GW is producing good for you, enjoy yourself. I just think it's garbage.

I do hope that other games keep rising in popularity, and maybe that one day a different company will have the number one spot.

I know huh? I've asked for the OP to change it twice >.<

HOPING BEYOND HOPE!

But to your other point, I think that's a farm more positive (and constructive) attitude to cheer for your team than to pray that another one will crash and burn!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vermis wrote:
And those rules are nothing - NOTHING - that you can't find in a wide range of other wargames rules where the author was actually allowed to give a fig about rules quality or balance. Including some that you can slot your AoS minis into.

You do yourself a disservice if you don't give them a chance.

The difference is how much you care, and what kind of game you want to play. As I said a couple of posts back, as long as the game is relatively playable and I can enjoy myself with my friends, the models and to a lesser extent, the context in which the models are being played, are just a lot more important than the mechanics of the rules for me.

Pretty much no matter what the rules for the wargame are (and we've played easily many dozens over the years), we can have a good time. However, it's impossible to fix models that you don't like, fluff (context) that doesn't suit your tastes, or game scale (if you want a small game or a big game).

The competitive angle isn't really a big deal for me, because we strive for close games, no matter what the reason is, we'll make the adjustments to give both players reasonably equal chances to win, even if one player is much better than the other. Just the way we are, because it's not really much fun to beat my buddy 9 times in a row. In this sense, as I read it somewhere, the "dialogue/conversation with your opponent" and "narrative based play" and "social gaming" is very much our group, though we're probably very modelling/collection heavy, too. We're all pretty excited to see any new models others have finished, just as much so as (or more than) a new codex release.

However, where AoS falls short for me: list building is important, because I really enjoy building lists, something that is not really a part of what we see of AoS so far. Configuration and Loadouts are a big deal for me, and that's not there (though I understand why). Also, context and scale hurt AoS for me, because I (greatly) prefer scifi games, and I like them with a lot of models, and AoS is just not designed with big games in mind.

 Vermis wrote:

JNC wrote:No, I do not want GW to fail. There is no replacement for GW as a unpainted model company that makes product I want to buy. I don't have faith in any other company to make new impressive multi-part models with variations, most everybody else just copies something GW didn't do great or dropped. I have not seen any producer pumping out Mortis Engine, Celestial Hurricanum, and Stegadon qualty kits or Islands of Blood/Drak Vengeance starter sets.

And now you won't see GW pump them out either.

GW makes awesome, configurable kits. There are other companies that make excellent models, too, but I think GW's are, overall, better and they have a more complete collection. Swappable multipart kits aren't for everyone, but there is no model line in the world with as many possible configurations as space marines; there are no vehicles in the world with as many swappable parts and options as GW ones.

Some people probably think that GW models are ugly and a waste of time to build. But looking at recent models, I love many of the large premium models like Bloodthirster, Treeman Ancient, Nagash, many of the small models like Jetbike Farseer, the Dark Angels Chaplain, and AdMech Dominus. I love the build complexity, how they are all zero-undercut parts, and I love that they are all in high resolution HIPS, and how must kits have more than one way to be built. I mean, how much would PP fans like for their models to all be in plastic instead of resin, restic, or metal?

Also, I am a HUGE fan of GW's 40k scenery products. There is nothing even remotely comparable to what's available for Cities of Death/Wall of Martyrs stuff, not to mention the RoB city boards, and the Forgeworld premium boards.

 Vermis wrote:
And now you won't see GW pump them out either.

Uh... oh, I could have sworn they just dropped a multi-part Bloodthirster and other multi-part kits recently. I didn't buy it but it so much better than the metal Bloodthirster I paid 50$ for.

We are at the tip of a product launch, yet it's still the END TIMES What happened to that 'in 5 months GW will be death spiraling' thing?

Honestly I'll reiterate what I said before.
I'm a new 40k player and I want 40k to stick around.
I'll get GW models but I know their flaws and weaknesses and it could be a lot better.
I would love for the game I'm interested in to be handled better, however that happens. Whether that's GW wising up, someone buying out GW or someone else entirely taking over their properties. Don't give a damn how it happens.

JNC wrote:
What happened to that 'in 5 months GW will be death spiraling' thing?

I dunno. I never said anything about five months. I do know you won't get too many more stegadons and hurricanums, though.

Unless you're talking about just buying random big things because you're a collector first. In which case I don't know if you're enough to save GW.

JNC wrote:

 Vermis wrote:
And now you won't see GW pump them out either.

Uh... oh, I could have sworn they just dropped a multi-part Bloodthirster and other multi-part kits recently. I didn't buy it but it so much better than the metal Bloodthirster I paid 50$ for.

We are at the tip of a product launch, yet it's still the END TIMES What happened to that 'in 5 months GW will be death spiraling' thing?

Indeed... Bloodthirster, Nagash, Morghasts, Treeman Ancient were all super-premium fantasy models.

On top of Age of Sigmar with 47 brand-new minis, a few pieces of fantasy terrain, a box of Sigmarites coming the week after, and a Sigmarite clampack, these products were released in 2015 as part of GW's Death Spiral --

Harlequin Troupe, Skyweaver, Starweaver, Death Jester, Solitaire Shadowseer, Farseer jetbike, Windrider, Autarch, Necron Overlord, Skitarii Rangers, Ballistarius, Dunecrawler, Ironstrider, Ruststalkers, Kataphron, Kastelan Robots, Kastelan Tech-dude, Electro-Priests, Dominus, Devastators, Assault Marines, Librarian, Chaplain, Plasma Obliterator, Promethium Pipes, Land Raider Excelsior, Rhino Priamris, and upgrade sprues for 4 space marine factions.

Oh yes -- a whole new brush range that's way bigger than the old one, new paints, a line of figurine cases, and something like a codex a month, and the Khorne fellas that I can't remember the name of.

Soooo... if GW Death Spiraled anymore, they'd need new releases twice a week O.o

 jah-joshua wrote:
@George Spiggot: please explain to me where i have so wrongly understood your definition of scale creep....

On both the other ranges you mentioned.

Whether you or I like it is irrelevant since my original comment was aimed at people with existing gaming collections who don't want (more) scale creep.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
GW may have done no market research for designing AOS but it is undeniable a lot of people on DakkaDakka think the game is best thing since sliced bread, so GW got something right even if it was a lucky accident.

Only if it leads to increased sales. There's always a group of people who will like product x, a group in the middle and a group who hates it. People liking the game is to be expected, the million pound question is: is there enough of those people to sustain their revenue, let alone increase it?

Maybe FFG will get 40k. Maybe it will become a balanced game.Really as soon as the LOTR license expires for GW Im done.

 Torga_DW wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
GW may have done no market research for designing AOS but it is undeniable a lot of people on DakkaDakka think the game is best thing since sliced bread, so GW got something right even if it was a lucky accident.

Only if it leads to increased sales. There's always a group of people who will like product x, a group in the middle and a group who hates it. People liking the game is to be expected, the million pound question is: is there enough of those people to sustain their revenue, let alone increase it?

Well, since Fantasy sales were pitiful, I don't think it takes much to increase it.

A lot of 40k'ers will give Sigmar a go because it's a low model count game with an aesthetic that they're probably going to like. As a primary 40k modeler and gamer, I never got into Fantasy *partly* because the model requirements were high AND the models, when ranked up, felt very samey. I mean, it's like painting 200 snapfit marines or guardians. That would just be so boring, even for a guy that loves painting, and it's daunting to do it for a game you might not play a lot.

We actually found it was way more fun than we thought it would be -- and we took stupid models that was literally whatever we owned in Fantasy that was painted (because none of us own anything vaguely resembling a compete Fantasy army). The other thing that was cool was that 2 girlfriends who are just super-casual Magic players joined in to see what it was all about for a game, and they picked it up in no time at all, and enjoyed themselves enough to consider playing again. I think if the game were much more complex, that wouldn't have been the case.

I didn't *love* the game, but it was fun, short, and skirmish. I don't think it was particularly better than WMH or anything, and it's sure not going to replace 40k as our game.

On the other hand, we actually played a game set in Fantasy, which has never happened for us, and most of us are likely to buy AoS on launch day -- though the number that buy the Sigmarites box or clampack the week following might be sharply lower.

Relapse wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

And yet, here you are, putting money into or at least time to write extensive posts about a game company you seem to hate, but can't leave.

Some people find the practices of gw to be interesting, and worth discussion. This is a forum for the discussion of gw. If they liked the game, they would presumably still be playing it which is completely unrelated to the discussion of the game. Likewise, if they hate it they can still go to a site for the discussion of the game and have a discussion about it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Talys wrote:

 Torga_DW wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
GW may have done no market research for designing AOS but it is undeniable a lot of people on DakkaDakka think the game is best thing since sliced bread, so GW got something right even if it was a lucky accident.

Only if it leads to increased sales. There's always a group of people who will like product x, a group in the middle and a group who hates it. People liking the game is to be expected, the million pound question is: is there enough of those people to sustain their revenue, let alone increase it?

Well, since Fantasy sales were pitiful, I don't think it takes much to increase it.

A lot of 40k'ers will give Sigmar a go because it's a low model count game with an aesthetic that they're probably going to like. As a primary 40k modeler and gamer, I never got into Fantasy *partly* because the model requirements were high AND the models, when ranked up, felt very samey. I mean, it's like painting 200 snapfit marines or guardians. That would just be so boring, even for a guy that loves painting, and it's daunting to do it for a game you might not play a lot.

We actually found it was way more fun than we thought it would be -- and we took stupid models that was literally whatever we owned in Fantasy that was painted (because none of us own anything vaguely resembling a compete Fantasy army). The other thing that was cool was that 2 girlfriends who are just super-casual Magic players joined in to see what it was all about for a game, and they picked it up in no time at all, and enjoyed themselves enough to consider playing again. I think if the game were much more complex, that wouldn't have been the case.

I didn't *love* the game, but it was fun, short, and skirmish. I don't think it was particularly better than WMH or anything, and it's sure not going to replace 40k as our game.

On the other hand, we actually played a game set in Fantasy, which has never happened for us, and most of us are likely to buy AoS on launch day -- though the number that buy the Sigmarites box or clampack the week following might be sharply lower.

You're assuming there that sales can only go up for fantasy. That is incorrect, they can still go down at this point. Enough to kill the particular franchise completely. What happens remains to be seen.

 Lockark wrote:
I don't wish for GW to fail. I like the pre-AoS fantasy and 40k IP. But I hope Age of Sigmar is enough of a failure to make them wake up to how far they have fallen.

It probably won't happen. I mean, part of me is chortling at the wacky AoS stuff, but at the same time, I feel honestly bad for Fantasy players who approached WHF as even a semi-competitive game. Regardless of how good AoS is, it's a terrible successor to Fantasy, essentially telling a big chunk of the customer base that they were having the wrong sort of fun.

And heck, if I were a 40K player, I'd be wondering with a feeling of dread if the style of AoS will be seen in the next edition.

 Torga_DW wrote:
You're assuming there that sales can only go up for fantasy. That is incorrect, they can still go down at this point. Enough to kill the particular franchise completely. What happens remains to be seen.

In the mid/long term, I agree; it could be a flame that burns out. In the immediate future, I think Sigmar will do fine.

The few people that I know who play 8e Fantasy rarely (almost never?) buy new models for their armies -- certainly not like the 40k folks I know.

 George Spiggott wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:
@George Spiggot: please explain to me where i have so wrongly understood your definition of scale creep....

On both the other ranges you mentioned.

Whether you or I like it is irrelevant since my original comment was aimed at people with existing gaming collections who don't want (more) scale creep.

so it is not valid to say that the industry itself is going through a scale creep???
when i first started, Citadel miniatures were called 25mm scale...
now companies are creating wargaming minis in 28mm, 32mm, 35mm, 42mm, 54mm, 75mm and more...
it is a bit hard to keep it all straight, and come up with terminology that is acceptable to everyone...
i'm not trying to be right here, but it just seems like we are really splitting hairs, and that is pointless in my opinion...
there is something out there for everyone really...
you can get minis from 6mm scale all the way up to 200mm, which is great as far as i'm concerned...

if you think that Infinity is not going through its first bout of scale creep, i'm not going to go 'round and 'round to convince you of what i see...
i would say that you liking it or not liking it is very relevant, as the individual is the one buying products...
if you want to crusade for someone else, that's cool...
many people on this site have already made it very clear that i am a very selfish customer, even though i have never said that anyone else's opinion is irelevant or invalid...
if it is selfish to speak with my own voice, about the things that i like, instead of trying to champion the cause of some faceless "them", when everyone seems to have wildly varying desires about what they would like to see from a company's product, then i will just have to accept someone else's labeling of me...

if people are put-off by scale creep, while others are not, there doesn't really seem to be any one answer...
since that seems to be the case, why should i not just voice my opinion about what i personally enjoy???
i have never told any one to suck it up and get over it, or anything dismissive like that...
i have only said why i enjoy the different generations of minis...
i'm not trying to do that at the expense of others, since we are not in control of any mini manufacturer's choices...
all we can do is vote with our wallet...
if you choose not to buy GW because you don't want to support the new bigger minis, that's fine...
i like it, so i buy them...

cheers
jah

 Elemental wrote:

And heck, if I were a 40K player, I'd be wondering with a feeling of dread if the style of AoS will be seen in the next edition.

I don't have that feeling at all. Why would GW give up the incredibly lucrative codex cash cow for a free rules model? For heavens sake, there's one guy in our group who buys the LE version of every freakin' codex just so he can put it on a shelf, then buys the digital copy so that he doesn't mess up his collector items. And when he's at my place, uses my books so that he can leave me French Fry grease on my books!

I think if WHFB were doing half as well as 40k, GW would have been quite content with churning out the editions ad infinitum.

 Zaki66 wrote:
*grabs popcorn*

This is actually kinda entertaining.



To the original thread: Something tells me AoS is going the Hobbit/LoTR path.... along with rest of the Fantasy. Meaning 40k will be the sole source of major income for GW.... and judging by how they've been running it since 5th Ed, it's gonna tank at one point.... I think...?

Um, where have you been? GW already is tanking, its has been for over a year now. Or do you think that they went from released a new dex every 3 months and new models every month to churning out next models and books every week out of the goodness of their hearts?

Everything GW has done since 7e came out reeks of company that sees the writing on the wall and is doing everything they can to hide it from their investors short of actually giving the customers what they want, because as GW so proudly boasted, they have no idea what we want, nor do they care.

 Talys wrote:

 Torga_DW wrote:
You're assuming there that sales can only go up for fantasy. That is incorrect, they can still go down at this point. Enough to kill the particular franchise completely. What happens remains to be seen.

In the mid/long term, I agree; it could be a flame that burns out. In the immediate future, I think Sigmar will do fine.

My prediction is it will struggle to do fine in the immediate future, but we'll know either way when the financials are released for this half. Kinda funny to me that the last financials haven't been released yet and already i feel like they're obsolete.

 Talys wrote:
The few people that I know who play 8e Fantasy rarely (almost never?) buy new models for their armies -- certainly not like the 40k folks I know.

Thats a correlation/causation issue though. Are they not buying because they are the sort of people that generally don't buy new things? Or are they not buying because they're dissatisfied with the way things were going? Would be interesting to know.

 Talys wrote:

 Elemental wrote:

And heck, if I were a 40K player, I'd be wondering with a feeling of dread if the style of AoS will be seen in the next edition.

I don't have that feeling at all. Why would GW give up the incredibly lucrative codex cash cow for a free rules model? For heavens sake, there's one guy in our group who buys the LE version of every freakin' codex just so he can put it on a shelf, then buys the digital copy so that he doesn't mess up his collector items. And when he's at my place, uses my books so that he can leave me French Fry grease on my books!

I think if WHFB were doing half as well as 40k, GW would have been quite content with churning out the editions ad infinitum.

They didn't have to keep on churning out new editions... I think a lot of people (and I know a bunch of WFB playing guys who were really into the game, playing lots of tournaments each year etc.) might have hoped they had just kept the previous 8th edition on sale, alongside, AoS.

I don't think anyone begrudges GW releasing this new game. It's more the fact that they've set up something new, while completely disregarding the loyal fanbase of WHFB who have played the game for 20-30 years. TOs now have a difficult choice of trying to keep appeal to those players, or do they go with the new AoS? What will probably happen is a split down the middle, with a detriment to those tournaments that lose players to other games as well as AoS, and those that just stop bothering with it.

And this new game isn't WHFB in terms of the character of play, mechanics, balance, tactics employed to play. The chances are it's not going to scratch that itch for a lot of players, and the fact that forums are already abuzz with attempts to try and introduce some semblance of a balance mechanic before the game has even be released; you don't know whether to laugh or cry about it.

The whole thing is actually like a nightmare.. I still can't believe it has happened, or that GW would do something so crass.

 Torga_DW wrote:
Thats a correlation/causation issue though. Are they not buying because they are the sort of people that generally don't buy new things? Or are they not buying because they're dissatisfied with the way things were going? Would be interesting to know.

Anecdotally, there's a bunch that haven't bought stuff for a *really* long time, because they're pretty happy with what they have and are pretty happy playing their 7e games, with no real desire to move on to much else. There isn't this burning "OMGIGOTTAHAVEIT" of my 40k acquaintances.

And of course, I don't mean they don't buy *anything*. A couple of boxes of minis or a really nifty premium model of their faction, sure, but that's about it. GW desires the fans that will basically purchase a weekly product release subscription

Obviously, the majority fall somewhere in between. But I'm curious, for example, what the X-Wing average annual spend is in Y1, Y2, Y3.. and what it will be in Y10 and Y15. Also -- there's a philosophy of "well, let's sell them another game", and then, there's the philosophy of, "let's get them to buy more stuff for the game they're playing", and we all know where GW's mojo is at.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pacific wrote:

They didn't have to keep on churning out new editions... I think a lot of people (and I know a bunch of WFB playing guys who were really into the game, playing lots of tournaments each year etc.) might have hoped they had just kept the previous 8th edition on sale, alongside, AoS.

I don't think anyone begrudges GW releasing this new game. It's more the fact that they've set up something new, while completely disregarding the loyal fanbase of WHFB who have played the game for 20-30 years. TOs now have a difficult choice of trying to keep appeal to those players, or do they go with the new AoS? What will probably happen is a split down the middle, with a detriment to those tournaments that lose players to other games as well as AoS, and those that just stop bothering with it.

And this new game isn't WHFB in terms of the character of play, mechanics, balance, tactics employed to play. The chances are it's not going to scratch that itch for a lot of players, and the fact that forums are already abuzz with attempts to try and introduce some semblance of a balance mechanic before the game has even be released; you don't know whether to laugh or cry about it.

The whole thing is actually like a nightmare.. I still can't believe it has happened, or that GW would do something so crass.

I suppose, they could have. I personally think they should have forked the product into a skirmisher and a big-model-count game. But I'm not sure keeping 8e out there makes any sense; I mean, it obviously isn't attracting new players, so who's going to buy all those books that take up space on the shelf?