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DE for me, never really got into them on any level, fluff wise aesthetically, tactic wise. Dont see what they add to 40k in the game or Universe tbh.
Plus the fluff in the 5th ed codex really jarred with me.

The Assassins, Imperial Knights, Inquisition and the Ad Mech. I would roll them together into a book called the Codex: Forces of the Imperium or something.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
The Assassins, Imperial Knights, Inquisition and the Ad Mech. I would roll them together into a book called the Codex: Forces of the Imperium or something.

Except Imperial Knights. Just get rid of them.

People really do seem to like imperial knights though

 Cobra66 wrote:
People really do seem to like imperial knights though

Not from a gameplay perspective.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Cobra66 wrote:
People really do seem to like imperial knights though

Not from a gameplay perspective.

+1

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

 Red Marine wrote:
Admech. Thier contribution militarily to the IoM is negligible, outside of the Legio Titanicus. There "armys" only ever really defended the handful of Forge worlds.

Where do you think that most of the weapons and other equipment come from? I'd say completely the opposite, their contriubution is almost as significant as the guard's and the navy's. I'd be completely fine with Admech never having been playable or right now vanishing overnight but in the fluff, those handful of forge worlds are pretty damn important. Sticks and stones just aren't quite enough to defend a galaxy-spanning empire.

That's what he means. The AdMech and their armies are primarily found on Forge Worlds. making weapons for the other Imperial armies. Weapons that the AdMech does not personally hand-deliver to individual soldiers in the field. If it were not for the Guard, the AdMech wouldn't exist, as they have no customers for the things they make.

The AdMech army is, basically, a good idea for a specific campaign setting, but stupid almost anywhere else.

 jasper76 wrote:
Ditch Imperial Knights, and spend the resources on getting CSM up-to-speed rules-wise and models-wise.

I play CSM and I do not agree because GW has been trying to help chaos with so many failed supplements such as Black Legion and Crimson Slaughter, Khorne Daemonkin. It took Forge world to print the badly needed IA13.

Hell to the no. Get rid of imperial Knight faction and just throw them in the admech books

 Filch wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Ditch Imperial Knights, and spend the resources on getting CSM up-to-speed rules-wise and models-wise.

I play CSM and I do not agree because GW has been trying to help chaos with so many failed supplements such as Black Legion and Crimson Slaughter, Khorne Daemonkin. It took Forge world to print the badly needed IA13.

Yeah, all the core GW produced CSM stuff has been really lame. They seem to be willfully going out of their way to produce stuff that nobody was really looking for, and to actively avoid making Legion stuff that would be a license to print money.

A Black Legion supplement? Really? The entire base book is already built on the concept of the Black Legion.

Crimson Slaughter? A new minor renegade faction nobody cared about.

Khorne Daemonkin? A little more interesting than the other two, but a lot of what it offers could be accomplished through the allies rules already, and they'd have generated a lot more excitement with a World Eaters supplement.

I'll give you two.

1. Grey Knights: They are the King of the TFG's armies. They aren't supposed to be numerous enough to have a major presence in the universe. Originally they were just there to stop a daemonic incursion and go home, and even then a squad was a RARE sight. Only an Inquisitor could bring a series number to bare. And after what they did to Armageddon, the combined survivors of Space Wolves, Blood Angels and IG should of turned their cowardly souls to ash. And that's the biggest kicker, they used to be a shadowy anti daemon strike force that hit, got the job done and left. Now they are shiny SUPER DUPER Space Marines. Ten times cheesier and stupid then ANYTHING the Wolves have ever got.

2. Necrons: My hatred for their level of unbeatably on the tabletop has been documented, but they also really have no personality or character, even with the 'newcron' update that makes them even remotely interesting.

Replace these two with:
1. Sisters of Battle: The army is too expensive to collect right now, with most of their stuff being metal and they should of got a true release before we got Not really Ad Mech, and then Ad Mech armies. Plus the 40K universe is a massive sausage fest, and modeling and painting ladies is just more fun then marine #258.

2. Hrud/Space Skaven: This would get all my monies day one. It seriously needs to happen. I want my rats in space.

Roll Imperial Knights, Admech, and skitarii into one book.
Roll Grey Knights, inquisition and assassins into one book.
Roll Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels into one book.
Roll Craftworld Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Harlequins into one book.
Roll Chaos Marines, Lost & Damned, and Chaos into one book.
Keep C:SM. (its already pretty full)
Roll Astra Militarum, Solar Auxillia, Death Korps, etc.+ Sisters of Battle into one book.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
I'll give you two.

1. Grey Knights: They are the King of the TFG's armies. They aren't supposed to be numerous enough to have a major presence in the universe. Originally they were just there to stop a daemonic incursion and go home, and even then a squad was a RARE sight. Only an Inquisitor could bring a series number to bare. And after what they did to Armageddon, the combined survivors of Space Wolves, Blood Angels and IG should of turned their cowardly souls to ash. And that's the biggest kicker, they used to be a shadowy anti daemon strike force that hit, got the job done and left. Now they are shiny SUPER DUPER Space Marines. Ten times cheesier and stupid then ANYTHING the Wolves have ever got.

2. Necrons: My hatred for their level of unbeatably on the tabletop has been documented, but they also really have no personality or character, even with the 'newcron' update that makes them even remotely interesting.

Replace these two with:
1. Sisters of Battle: The army is too expensive to collect right now, with most of their stuff being metal and they should of got a true release before we got Not really Ad Mech, and then Ad Mech armies. Plus the 40K universe is a massive sausage fest, and modeling and painting ladies is just more fun then marine #258.

2. Hrud/Space Skaven: This would get all my monies day one. It seriously needs to happen. I want my rats in space.

Hrud aren't skaven. They're entropic apathetic interdimensional beings that brutally murder anything that disturbs them. They can't be an army (and would be both horrible and horribly boring at that) as they simply aren't organized at all or have any unit variation. They'd be worse than the Nids- there would only be one unit.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
I'll give you two.

1. Grey Knights: They are the King of the TFG's armies. They aren't supposed to be numerous enough to have a major presence in the universe. Originally they were just there to stop a daemonic incursion and go home, and even then a squad was a RARE sight. Only an Inquisitor could bring a series number to bare. And after what they did to Armageddon, the combined survivors of Space Wolves, Blood Angels and IG should of turned their cowardly souls to ash. And that's the biggest kicker, they used to be a shadowy anti daemon strike force that hit, got the job done and left. Now they are shiny SUPER DUPER Space Marines. Ten times cheesier and stupid then ANYTHING the Wolves have ever got.

2. Necrons: My hatred for their level of unbeatably on the tabletop has been documented, but they also really have no personality or character, even with the 'newcron' update that makes them even remotely interesting.

Replace these two with:
1. Sisters of Battle: The army is too expensive to collect right now, with most of their stuff being metal and they should of got a true release before we got Not really Ad Mech, and then Ad Mech armies. Plus the 40K universe is a massive sausage fest, and modeling and painting ladies is just more fun then marine #258.

2. Hrud/Space Skaven: This would get all my monies day one. It seriously needs to happen. I want my rats in space.

Hrud aren't skaven. They're entropic apathetic interdimensional beings that brutally murder anything that disturbs them. They can't be an army (and would be both horrible and horribly boring at that) as they simply aren't organized at all or have any unit variation. They'd be worse than the Nids- there would only be one unit.

But I could see Tau manipulating them into service. Mind control ftw?

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
I'll give you two.

1. Grey Knights: They are the King of the TFG's armies. They aren't supposed to be numerous enough to have a major presence in the universe. Originally they were just there to stop a daemonic incursion and go home, and even then a squad was a RARE sight. Only an Inquisitor could bring a series number to bare. And after what they did to Armageddon, the combined survivors of Space Wolves, Blood Angels and IG should of turned their cowardly souls to ash. And that's the biggest kicker, they used to be a shadowy anti daemon strike force that hit, got the job done and left. Now they are shiny SUPER DUPER Space Marines. Ten times cheesier and stupid then ANYTHING the Wolves have ever got.

2. Necrons: My hatred for their level of unbeatably on the tabletop has been documented, but they also really have no personality or character, even with the 'newcron' update that makes them even remotely interesting.

Replace these two with:
1. Sisters of Battle: The army is too expensive to collect right now, with most of their stuff being metal and they should of got a true release before we got Not really Ad Mech, and then Ad Mech armies. Plus the 40K universe is a massive sausage fest, and modeling and painting ladies is just more fun then marine #258.

2. Hrud/Space Skaven: This would get all my monies day one. It seriously needs to happen. I want my rats in space.

Hrud aren't skaven. They're entropic apathetic interdimensional beings that brutally murder anything that disturbs them. They can't be an army (and would be both horrible and horribly boring at that) as they simply aren't organized at all or have any unit variation. They'd be worse than the Nids- there would only be one unit.

But I could see Tau manipulating them into service. Mind control ftw?

Wat

Hrud are world destroying monsters that can annihilate just about anything that isn't a Daemon. Tau would just get destroyed if Hrud were pissed off enough to go on a world destroying spree.

This is GW's IP man. If they decided to make it happen then they could add Hrud in to the Tau codex if they wanted to. Its not like fluff doens't get re-written everyday.

Besides I don't think that Hrud get "pissed off" they mostly just... migrate.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
This is GW's IP man. If they decided to make it happen then they could add Hrud in to the Tau codex if they wanted to. Its not like fluff doens't get re-written everyday.

Besides I don't think that Hrud get "pissed off" they mostly just... migrate.

And GW won't make it happen, ever, as they are too small a faction and wouldn't generate much in the way of money.

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
This is GW's IP man. If they decided to make it happen then they could add Hrud in to the Tau codex if they wanted to. Its not like fluff doens't get re-written everyday.

Besides I don't think that Hrud get "pissed off" they mostly just... migrate.

And by migrating, they obliterate the planet they're leaving. :p

They've been adding in a lot of small factions lately like Inquisitors, and Harlequins. So why not add in Hrud??

Because 1 Hrud would be equivalent to a pre-nerf Transcendent C'tan in terms of firepower.

 Cobra66 wrote:
They've been adding in a lot of small factions lately like Inquisitors, and Harlequins. So why not add in Hrud??

Inquisitors and Harlequins have been major parts of the TT for a while, one of which even used to have its own game. Hrud have not. In fact Hrud have never been a part of the TT.

Hrud are also basically an army of MCs. That's it. They don't have "small Hrud" in the way Tyranids build armies around a couple big bugs surrounded by swarms of small ones.

Worse? Individual Hrud aren't really that big. So you have something that has, basically, an always-on death field with strange-ass alien biology that gives them what is basically IWND that can camp behind cover or teleport around the field and inflict entropic decay on everything within like 12" of a Hrud model.

Grey Knights: They are the King of the TFG's armies. They aren't supposed to be numerous enough to have a major presence in the universe. Originally they were just there to stop a daemonic incursion and go home, and even then a squad was a RARE sight. Only an Inquisitor could bring a series number to bare. And after what they did to Armageddon, the combined survivors of Space Wolves, Blood Angels and IG should of turned their cowardly souls to ash. And that's the biggest kicker, they used to be a shadowy anti daemon strike force that hit, got the job done and left. Now they are shiny SUPER DUPER Space Marines. Ten times cheesier and stupid then ANYTHING the Wolves have ever got.

What happened at Armageddon was the only appropriate response to the situation. What the Space Wolves did was make a bad situation worse. Because they are stupid.

 Psienesis wrote:
Hrud are also basically an army of MCs. That's it. They don't have "small Hrud" in the way Tyranids build armies around a couple big bugs surrounded by swarms of small ones.

Worse? Individual Hrud aren't really that big. So you have something that has, basically, an always-on death field with strange-ass alien biology that gives them what is basically IWND that can camp behind cover or teleport around the field and inflict entropic decay on everything within like 12" of a Hrud model.

Grey Knights: They are the King of the TFG's armies. They aren't supposed to be numerous enough to have a major presence in the universe. Originally they were just there to stop a daemonic incursion and go home, and even then a squad was a RARE sight. Only an Inquisitor could bring a series number to bare. And after what they did to Armageddon, the combined survivors of Space Wolves, Blood Angels and IG should of turned their cowardly souls to ash. And that's the biggest kicker, they used to be a shadowy anti daemon strike force that hit, got the job done and left. Now they are shiny SUPER DUPER Space Marines. Ten times cheesier and stupid then ANYTHING the Wolves have ever got.

What happened at Armageddon was the only appropriate response to the situation. What the Space Wolves did was make a bad situation worse. Because they are stupid.

Considering most people don't consider genocide against your own fellow comrades sensible because an inquisitor said "just to be safe go ahead and kill them all". Especially after the normal methods of brainwashing were already complete
Oh and then they opened fire on the space wolves at a peace-negotiation. And what was it that the space wolves were doing to provoke the inquisiton's wrath? Soaking fire for friendly guard regiment ships.
The space wolf stupidity started AFTER the fake negotiation.

Altruism is not a bad thing even though 40k seems to try and make everyone think it is.
But judging by your signature your probably just going to argue with me so I don't even know I bother.

lollie123 wrote:


Are you serious? Cut out all the stuff that actually separates them all, that makes them unique? Why would anyone want to play them at that point anymore?

Point out in my quote where I said I'd cut anything. Point it out and you have a valid point. Until then, you're putting words in my mouth.

Try again.

Besides what would you put in the book? Ultramarine stuff? Blood Angel? Space Wolf? Dark Angel? Grey Knights?

All except GK, which belongs in a better Inq book.

Yeah thats gonna be great when all the rest of the armies look at a book they would be paying $80+ for that has nothing but a few pages of rules for their models, you can guarantee no one will move on from their current codex if something like that was ever introduced.

Again, if you bothered reading what I posted, you'd understand that the book wouldn't be that much money (assuming GW would follow reasonable business practices, but that's pretty iffy these days), or if were to cost more, it'd be by a pretty minimal amount considering the current cost anyways, plus you'd get access to literally every single loyalist marine unit, which greatly benefits the myriad of DIY chapter players. I don't think I'll ever understand this mindset, you'd get so much extra value compared to what you'd have to pay now for all that.

It is an utterly inane idea that you should be ashamed of even thinking of, its absolutely foolish and would be a terrible move for GW in terms of not only the game but their income.

Well of course it'd be bad for their income, so they'd never do it. But this isn't about what GW would do, its about what I'd do/want. So, what effects it would have on GW as a business is pretty irrelevant to this discussion.

As for your first part, lol. Seriously? I should be ashamed? *EDIT* I see your age in your profile. I'm honestly surprised you'd state I should be ashamed over an idea about a fething game. Seriously man, get a grip.

No, I'm not ashamed, no, its not inane. Defend your arguments instead of calling mine names.

You could combine all chapters will losing nothing to very little, open more options to all marine players and especially DIY chapters, cut out unnecessary redundancy in stating across three books what role a tactical marine has, have all marine fluff in a single source, would be cheaper for codex collectors, offer more value for marine players who own even one faction, and be far cheaper for those who own more than one, stop the power creep nonsense between nearly identical armies, and reduce total time spent on codex development for other factions to receive more love.

The only theoretical downsides would be the loss of some snowflake rules or minor characters. Depends on who would write it and how. Personally, I'd cut some, but I could probably create something that didn't need to. There might be some fluff loss too, but I don't think people would exactly miss the likes of Necron brofisting or murderfang murderfang murderfang. Opinions may vary, but I find there's a lot of really gakky marine fluff that wouldn't be missed.

That's about it.

If you're so worried about your army losing its unique appeal due to a handful of special rules or wargear items or exclusive access to a certain pattern of vehicle, I'd suggest you're looking at it wrong. Your army will be more unique based how you choose to field it, paint it, convert it, and fluff it out. The rules are there to support it, but my Mordian Iron Guard isn't less unique or less Mordian because I don't have Captain Mordian McMordian Stern DrillFace Sr barking orders in my army.

Regardless, I'm still laughing that you'd even say I should be ashamed for an idea around a book for a wargame. You stay classy.

I wouldn't get rid of any. All of the factions bring something unique to the table from both a gameplay and lore perspective.

If it were up to me, I would even give Black Templars their own codex again. Besides, GW will probably be expanding the number of factions in the game to keep their release schedule up.

I feel like we've gotten a bit off topic...

On a side note though I only recently started playing 40k (Maybe 4 years ago) and I do miss the days when there was only about 15 armies, all of which had at least over 10 models.



Cheers, C66

kburn wrote:
Also, they've been gathering the worst of TFG, WAAC scrubs for 7 editions straight, so squatting them would get rid of the worst players who drag down the whole game.

No it wouldn't. Those players would simply field something else instead.


I would scrap Grey Knights and Imperial Knights. Maybe even all the AdMech stuff, at the very least they get rolled into one book. Scrap the Tempestus thing, put an elite choice in the Imperial Guard book called "Storm Troopers". The time/money/resources would go to a Sisters of Battle plastic range, additional Guard regiments (supposedly the most numerous and varied Imperial military force in the galaxy) and doing CSM justice.

Anfauglir, thats the whole point of the pointlessness of the Scion book: Scions are in the Guard book!

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Anfauglir, thats the whole point of the pointlessness of the Scion book: Scions are in the Guard book!

While personally I always wanted to do an army of stormtroopers, it's something that should have just been made possible within the IG book.

Worst of all though, was the awful harry-potter-torture-porn-esque fluff revamp they did of the Schola background

Colehkxix wrote:
All of the Space Marine subfactions. They need to be combined with the Space Marine codex. I've not read very much about Blood or Dark Angels, but I understand that each faction, including Space Wolves, clearly has chapter tactics and it is applied in the same way.

However, adding them all to the core rulebook would further increase the amount of unique characters and special chapter specific options. Including Helfrost, Fenrisian Greataxe/Shield, Frost Weapons, Relics, Thunderwolf Cavalry, Space Wolf psychic abilities. And that's only naming the Space Wolves specific options. Wouldn't this make the codex too large, with "If you're a Space Wolf you can also take the following:" options under most units?

Perhaps if the Space Wolves were part of the Space Marines book as Chapter Tactics, along with a HQ or two, and the rest of the options released in a supplemental book? It's either that or removing all of their frost weaponry/relics/psychic abilities/fluffy things.

This could very easily be pulled off.

FW Horus Heresy Astartes armies all follow the same basic template but with variations in Legion tactics and wargear.