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I am an ork player and I have been feeling a lot of hurt lately. I getz owned by those nids, the space marines especially and most of all, I get tabled every single time I play a Tau, Eldar or a Imperial Guard Player.

Like, literally, 60-70% of their armies are still on the table and I have not a single model left. Starting to feel like Orks is the weakest codex right now. I tried all sorts of lists and combinations but nothing seems to stick.

Are Orks the weakest codex right now? If not, than who do you guys think is the weakest?


impending rant ahead lol.

Man...the things I would do if I could change that codex lol. I would make killa kans and deff dreads an elite, make dreads a mob of up to 3 and kans up to five with the ability to add a dread to a kan mob and cut their points a little and add in a HQ that can make them a troop choice, so when I am not playing unbound I can do all sorts of cool stuff! return mob rule back to the way it was and wwaagh and ghazzy's waagh back to the way it was as well as the ambush rule that used to allow me to sneak ghazzy on the back edge of the board. Then I would allow ork boy mobs up to 5 special weapons in each mob with an added flamer as well. Make grotsnik the ability to add heavy army to stuff again and give KFF back its 6' protection field. Increase Ork BS for lootas and Flash Gitz by 1 as well as any other shooting based ork like the SAG big mek. No reason why all orks have a 2 bs when there are bosses hundreds of years older then the other boys.

Stuff like that would do it! lol.

Definitely Tau

Pretty much every codex prior to Necrons (with the possible exception of SW).

I would say SOB mostly due to their lack of GW love. To be honest though, I've won more games with them in 6th and 7th edition than I ever did in 5th- I account this to these later editions focusing more on vp and objectives than on kill points.

Orks have the odd fortune of being an anti-meta option against most tourney decurions. Trukk spam and green tides both tend to roll right over them, whereas most of the rest of the tournament armies are quite annoyed when facing the same list.

For weakest army not counting tiny books like harlies and such...I would place AM, BA, and chaos marines at the bottom of competitive play. Not sure who I'd call the worst. At top tables, they all can bring a viable unit or two, while the rest of their army belongs back in bottom tables, so they all need allies.
With that in mind I wanna say BA. While the AM might loan a wyvern squadron of the csm might throw in a helldrake for their allies, the BA's only redeeming factor is bringing empty drop pods for the superior non-BA part of the list to use.

Chaos space marines.

niv-mizzet wrote:

For weakest army not counting tiny books like harlies and such...I would place AM, BA, and chaos marines at the bottom of competitive play. .

of those three definatly chaos space marines are the worst IMHO.

Sisters is weakest overall. Probably nids, Blood Angels, CSM, and Orks next, in some order. Then Dark Eldar. Followed then by books that don't suck.

Too much lately I've seen people complaining that orks are the worst codex there is. While I will say they are not a powerhouse, they really aren't bad.

They are definitely above AM, BA, DE, Most nids, I'd even say SW.

while csm are probably worse than orks right now, the problem is that they can still get a power creep 7th edition codex. we orks already got ours (minus the power creep).

we probably wont get a new codex until edition 9th+

Sisters of Battle.

Enough said.

Dark Eldar, Blood Angels, Orks, Chaos Space Marines, and Sisters of Battle.

Orks, CSM and Blood Angels are fighting uphill battle. With Orks, you can actually win games sometime, because it's the most ''variant'' army. What I mean is: Lot of dice with low chance of success. You will have people that hit 30 shot out of 40, some other will do 10.

Having that in mind, you can actually play 2 different way: Minimize the variance, or banks on it. If you want to avoid it, I suggest running Speed Freaks army with lot of bike and trukk. TL on bike make them very shooty. And spam of trukk will saturate target prio.

And if you want to banks on the variance, I would suggest running Green Tide, with lots of boyz. (Never did it myself, but people seem to have good results with that.)

DE are horrid as well.

I found a rather sneeky orky build that is quite tuff.
It requires the use of FW units but is definitely capable of handling the majority of stuff currently.

Big Mek w/ KFF (Invuln Save Bubble)
Mekboy Junka w/ Force Field (Cover Save Bubble)

Run some Warbuggies in front as LOS blockers (the warbuggies are tough because of the Cover + Invuln) and then everything behind them gets a +1 to cover save.

Run Warkoptas as transports for your boyz, they get a cover save anyway for being skimmers which gets improved by the Junka and improved again by the Warbuggies and LOS and then they have an Invuln too. Suddenly you have extremely tough troop transports.

Throw in other stuff as desired.

Militarum Tempestus.

 Draco wrote:
Chaos space marines.

this

As a CSM player, I would have to agree that Chaos is the weakest army out there. Khorne Deamonkin was a good book for assault based armys, buy I play 1K sons and their all about sending rounds down range. Any thoughts on the rumored Tzeentch Deamonkin book? When it's due out and how you think it might help your army?

General Hobbs wrote:
Militarum Tempestus.

The true weakest Codex. Those guys are just sad and a half.

If you're getting tabled as Orks, well, I don't know what to tell you, man. Maybe this isn't the game for you. Orks are pretty awesome. They win tournaments all the time. What kind of lists are you running? What is your strategy? How are you deploying? How much terrain is there?

I dont think orks are that weak, I have won quite a few games using them and have seen other Ork players put some nasty lists together and go on winning streaks.

So I will say, as standalone codex goes the following are the weakest

Militarum Tempestus
Dark Eldar (probably the strongest of this list)
Chaos Space Marines
Harlequins

Dark Eldar are pretty awful.

But yeah, stormtroopers are the bottom of the pile.

Orks are pretty good actually, especially against the top lists.

Nids are extremely strong, but only have 2, extremely boring builds.

Well, winning tournaments "all the time" is a big big big stretch of the truth.

Are they THE weakest? Who knows.... Are they ONE of the weakest? Yes definitely. Along with AM, CSM, DE.

Nids? No way... they won the LVO iirc.

I would say that Orks are the weakest at the moment, simply by virtue of being the first 7th edition codex, and that codex being terrible. CSM and IG are down there too because of changes in GW design philosophy rendering them obsolete. I would rate Sisters, Blood Angels, and Dark Eldar as middle-tier codexes.

 sing your life wrote:
Sisters of Battle.

Enough said.

Least supported - yep

Weakest - not sure that holds - they have some very powerful units

There are still people that think sisters are weak? apparently they just see that no one has them and assume it's because of the power level.

It's because no one wants to pay for them.

Go play them on vassal or proxy them. Especially when you run them with BA taxi service, they can rock the house. 4 rending heavy flamers in a pod for 130ish points? God yes. 4 ignore cover melta dropping in for close to the same? Kiss your tanks (and skimmers!) goodbye. 3+/6++ for cheap in a meta where everyone is wounded on 2's all the time anyway so their low T doesn't matter? Excellent.

During some proxy testing I steamrolled my buddy's tourney decurion, and walked away with a relic against scat packs + seer council + wk eldar.

Now if only I won the lottery so I could afford the actual models.

Sisters are not as flashy as other armies, trust me I play em. But they can provide some serious hurt. As niv said, podding retributors or dominions works a treat, but also the sheer number of bodies that can be put down is usually a difficult prospect. 20 models with BS4 bolters, 3+/6++ and a priest to make them fearless is something very hard to remove.

geargutz wrote:
while csm are probably worse than orks right now, the problem is that they can still get a power creep 7th edition codex. we orks already got ours (minus the power creep).

we probably wont get a new codex until edition 9th+

Who knows, CSM is the oldest codex iirc and even by being the oldest we just got new eldar, new SM, and rumours said new AM is soon to come. Maybe GW is considering KDK as their redoing of the CSM even thou it didn't change the terrible cost/profiles of the CSM codex. We might see a new Ork codex before CSM

CSM army. I normally play Tzeentch (1k Sons), in a shooting based edition with shooty troops. Sounds great... but they have Slow and Purposeful, I2, and are stupidly expensive (and the only models available are a Finecast upgrade pack). Yeah.

After that, I'd say Blood Angels and Stormtroopers. I also hear lots of complaints about DE, Nids and Orks, but those armies definitely aren't as bad as people make out.

 doktor_g wrote:
Well, winning tournaments "all the time" is a big big big stretch of the truth.

Are they THE weakest? Who knows.... Are they ONE of the weakest? Yes definitely. Along with AM, CSM, DE.

Nids? No way... they won the LVO iirc.

I believe Nids won LVO because it happened to counter the meta. It isn't that the nids are super good (they aren't awful, either), it is just that they were built with the meta in mind. That is more skill over codex strength. The thing about 40k is that any army can do well against any other, in normal 1v1 play. The question that I believe is being asked here is more a "who is weakest in tournaments?" Not all books can make competitive take-all-comers lists. People rant about Eldar, but if you know you will face them it isn't hard to counter them AT ALL. The real question is whether you can answer Eldar, SM, Necrons, etc in ONE list.

Do people still consider Sisters to be a faction? I thought GW was just trolling with them by this point

Even more than SoB vanilla chaos marines are easily the worst codex in terms of power. Everything is over costed and with no formations (even other weak armies like orks, DE, and tempestus have them) there is little contest for worst codex.

Their update cannot come soon enough.