Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

jakejackjake wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
Eh, none. All Tau HQs are important and have good reason to be in the codex.

But they're all TERRIBLE. As someone who mains(and has only lost one game with Tau) I'd kill 'em all

Dunno.

Farsight netted us an entire supplement and more fluff. His rules aren't bad (good melee, good warlord trait) and he's not that expensive.

Shadowsun was miles better back in 6th, when she could join Crisis in deployment. Now she needs to wait with Stealth Suits or Kroot before jumping to join Crisis. Her other rules are good, though. Her fluff isn't as fleshed out as Farsight's, but she's an interesting counterpoint to him.

Aun'Shi got himself captured by the Dark Eldar and showed them who's the boss on Comorragh's pits (in his last novel). He's badass, just have bad rules.

Aun'Va is much better than his last incarnation, but still fragile. I'd field him only inside a building. But his evil-esque hold on the empire is a nice thiing for fluff

Darkstrider have 2 very interesting rules and can at least join units.

I'm not really keen on R'myr and R'alai, but the latter have interesting rules.

For the fluff...
The only TAU HQ that decided to disregard it's orders and pursue his own cause is FarSight. Plus, the guy is hiding behind 8 other members of 'Tau Armor Shield', "leading" the attack.

Give Orks another chance? 1-1? Dump the armor. Chest to chest!

 Wyzilla wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Azrael for sure....then they can scrap that midget of a miniature.
Promote Belial and then people can create there own actual Master of the deathwing.
on second thoughts, kill sammael, then the ravenwing strikeforcecouldnt be legally played!!

..Why the hell would you kill the thing that makes your Codex usable?

to teach GW how to write rules correctly!

'Cept the rules are perfectly fine. It's just the Deathwing that god screwed over.

Yeah, tell that to the ravenwing chaplain,

 ChazSexington wrote:
Abaddon, and then have Huron rise up and become Warmaster.

I think one of the 4 would be a better replacement. I would like to see all of them fight it out, but my money is on Typhus and his destroyer hive. Leader of the red corsairs, Huron was kinda weak, although I do love to infiltrate some zombies, He is still not worthy.

 redleger wrote:
I think one of the 4 would be a better replacement. I would like to see all of them fight it out, but my money is on Typhus and his destroyer hive. Leader of the red corsairs, Huron was kinda weak, although I do love to infiltrate some zombies, He is still not worthy.

I think the leader of the Black Legion would always have to be Chaos Undivided. Giving one God's cult more influence than the others would be a civil war waiting to happen...

 Vector Strike wrote:

jakejackjake wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
Eh, none. All Tau HQs are important and have good reason to be in the codex.

But they're all TERRIBLE. As someone who mains(and has only lost one game with Tau) I'd kill 'em all

Dunno.

Farsight netted us an entire supplement and more fluff. His rules aren't bad (good melee, good warlord trait) and he's not that expensive.

Shadowsun was miles better back in 6th, when she could join Crisis in deployment. Now she needs to wait with Stealth Suits or Kroot before jumping to join Crisis. Her other rules are good, though. Her fluff isn't as fleshed out as Farsight's, but she's an interesting counterpoint to him.

Aun'Shi got himself captured by the Dark Eldar and showed them who's the boss on Comorragh's pits (in his last novel). He's badass, just have bad rules.

Aun'Va is much better than his last incarnation, but still fragile. I'd field him only inside a building. But his evil-esque hold on the empire is a nice thiing for fluff

Darkstrider have 2 very interesting rules and can at least join units.

I'm not really keen on R'myr and R'alai, but the latter have interesting rules.

Don't get me wrong. I dig the fluff and the supplement is great as long as you don't play farsight. In game though if you have any one of those HQ's on the board and win you played a bad player, a bad list, a combo of a percentage of each, or got lucky.

 Nevelon wrote:

 Lammikkovalas wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I love how the people who obviously didn't read the full question are almost all universally bashing the UMs

Well, they do deserve quite a bashing

Indeed. There is only one Smurf special character that I actually like: Cassius. His 1d4chan page pretty well also tells why I'm not very fond of the others.

You may have noted a disturbing trend in Ultramarines special characters. Marneus Calgar is the BEST CHAPTER MASTER EVAR, Varro Tigurius is the BEST LIBRARIAN EVAR, Torias Telion is the BEST SCOUT SERGEANT EVAR, Antaro Chronus is the BEST TANK PILOT EVAR, and Cato Sicarius is the BEST SECOND COMPANY CAPTAIN EVAR (okay, maybe not so much on that one). In other words, they're all a bunch of fething Mary Sues. They have essentially no character traits besides being THE BEST EVAR. There's nothing setting them apart from other Space Marines besides the fact they're just better. They're so absolutely perfect that even Fulgrim himself weeps bitter tears that he can never be as perfect as the Ultramarines special characters.

True, sadly. I don’t mind some of those. Ultramarines should have some of the best commanders. But are we known for our librarians? Not really. I preferred the days when Tigurius was a bit overpriced and mediocre, but had some nice perks. Chronos should have been an Iron Hands special character. Talion would have made a fine Raven Guard.

Remember, all fluff in 40k is biased propaganda. And Ultramarines are arrogant, prideful, hubris-filled guys. Of course we’re the BEST EVAR! That’s what we tell people. Now if you excuse me, I need to put down an internal coup by our second company...

Actually with the latest Dex I think Chronos shouldn't be a character at all. or more to the point they shoiuld have renamed him something like "Astartes tank commander" and simply noted in the fluff Chronos was one of the most well known ones. as it is right now Ultramarines have an intreasting advantage in that they can take a tank as a HQ. this makes Ultramarines specificly proably the best chapter to play if you want to run a tank list. Indeed, it proably makes UMs the best faction for armored lists outside the IG. I'll take it but it feels... wrong somehow

it's sort of a hold over flaw IMHO from a differance in design philophsy from the old 5th ed book vs the 6th/7th edition chapter tactics.

Back in 5th edition it seemed characters where intended to be basicly your chapter tactics. so if you wanted salamnders fluffy rules you took Vulken. etc Ultramarine characters where thus generic but a bit of a cut above. but could easily be proxied for something else. thus you could use Lysander to field fists and then use tigurius as "jim bob master libaraian of the imperial fists"

 Nevelon wrote:
Cato Sicarius. He’s an arrogent, egotistical prat. Someone feed him to the ‘nids.

Mechanically, he’s a nice throwback to 4th edition, but that’s not enough to stay my ire.

Yes - Cato must die!

Eldrad. And make him stay dead.

Ugh. The hate for the ultramarines is soooo hipster.

"Oh my gosh, I hated them first.". Twirl old timey moustache, fluff man scarf, and then walk away to the swish of skinny jeans.

Theres enevitably a champion in any collection of like persons. An individual or specific group better than there fellows. Cato Sicarius's belief in himself & his chapter is based on fact. They are the best chapter of SMs out there, and the very backbone of an entire sector of the IoM. No other chapter can make such a boast. The UM hate is envious twaddle.

 Red Marine wrote:
Ugh. The hate for the ultramarines is soooo hipster.

"Oh my gosh, I hated them first.". Twirl old timey moustache, fluff man scarf, and then walk away to the swish of skinny jeans.

Theres enevitably a champion in any collection of like persons. An individual or specific group better than there fellows. Cato Sicarius's belief in himself & his chapter is based on fact. They are the best chapter of SMs out there, and the very backbone of an enter sector of tje IoM. No other chapter can make such a boast. The UM hate is envious twaddle.

Mat?

 Lord Corellia wrote:

 Red Marine wrote:
Ugh. The hate for the ultramarines is soooo hipster.

"Oh my gosh, I hated them first.". Twirl old timey moustache, fluff man scarf, and then walk away to the swish of skinny jeans.

Theres enevitably a champion in any collection of like persons. An individual or specific group better than there fellows. Cato Sicarius's belief in himself & his chapter is based on fact. They are the best chapter of SMs out there, and the very backbone of an enter sector of tje IoM. No other chapter can make such a boast. The UM hate is envious twaddle.

Mat?

Archibald?

I would kill Kharn.

Then no one would feth with me. Ever. It would be me in all those "Kharn is so fun" jokes. I'd be the one blamming people and throwing Baneblades. I'd be the life of the Chaos party and everyone would want to potentially get smoked in the face with my chainaxe, which I would rename Cassandra.

Mosyly though, I just want to kill Kharn so I can keep all the fluffy kittens for myself. That Kharn guy is a kittie hog. Every time we go to that cat cafe in Japan, he steals all the cats somehow and glares death at anyone who even so much as thinks of petting one of "his" cats. Kharn is a fething kittie hog. feth that guy.

I would kill Kharn.

They could kill all the characters except perhaps fabius bile, and that T6 half bionic space marine. The characters are so bland in 40k and just stay frozen in plotlines like all the armaggedon and Eye of Terror campaign characters that its boring beyond belief once you start reading about it.

They made great work of the backstory with the Horus Heresy. Why not make great stories by advancing the timeline a little every year? They have decent writers in GW, they're just railroaded into not ever writing anything of interest.

 triplegrim wrote:
They could kill all the characters except perhaps fabius bile, and that T6 half bionic space marine. The characters are so bland in 40k and just stay frozen in plotlines like all the armaggedon and Eye of Terror campaign characters that its boring beyond belief once you start reading about it.

They made great work of the backstory with the Horus Heresy. Why not make great stories by advancing the timeline a little every year? They have decent writers in GW, they're just railroaded into not ever writing anything of interest.

Because 40k is a setting, not a story. This is illustrated by the fact that both Eldrad and Captain Tycho have been killed in the fluff. Not only were these characters still in the game, but the "plot" did not advance at all through their passing.

EDIT: Also, IMO, the Horus Heresy series is garbage. It becomes more convoluted and meaningless with every additional novel, to the point where that entire event has lost most of its appeal to me.

 triplegrim wrote:
They could kill all the characters except perhaps fabius bile, and that T6 half bionic space marine. The characters are so bland in 40k and just stay frozen in plotlines like all the armaggedon and Eye of Terror campaign characters that its boring beyond belief once you start reading about it.

They made great work of the backstory with the Horus Heresy. Why not make great stories by advancing the timeline a little every year? They have decent writers in GW, they're just railroaded into not ever writing anything of interest.

Advancing the timeline is heresy

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:

Breton wrote:
Captain Tycho. Because he's a Star Wars ripoff, and because he was the only one so angry he couldn't get angry enough to carry a full CC oriented weapons load.

People seem to forget, Tycho is dead.

Nope. Retconned apparently. No mention of him dying, and his name is on the list of current company captains in the 7e BA book. He is, however, probably the worst named character in the book, since they took away his ap2 hand and his sternguard ammo.

niv-mizzet wrote:

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:

Breton wrote:
Captain Tycho. Because he's a Star Wars ripoff, and because he was the only one so angry he couldn't get angry enough to carry a full CC oriented weapons load.

People seem to forget, Tycho is dead.

Nope. Retconned apparently. No mention of him dying, and his name is on the list of current company captains in the 7e BA book. He is, however, probably the worst named character in the book, since they took away his ap2 hand and his sternguard ammo.

Then he is still dead to me.

niv-mizzet wrote:

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:

Breton wrote:
Captain Tycho. Because he's a Star Wars ripoff, and because he was the only one so angry he couldn't get angry enough to carry a full CC oriented weapons load.

People seem to forget, Tycho is dead.

Nope. Retconned apparently. No mention of him dying, and his name is on the list of current company captains in the 7e BA book. He is, however, probably the worst named character in the book, since they took away his ap2 hand and his sternguard ammo.

Eh, there is still a Death Company version of Tycho so ultimately he is still dead. His death wasn't so much retconned as the BA codex was brought back a step in the timeline. Shield of Baal takes place at the same time as Tycho's time in the 3rd War of Armageddon, his death is imminent.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Saint Celestine.

That way, I don't lose anything, since she comes back anyway.

I love you so much right now.

Yarrick kills Ghazghkull on Armageddon by shooting him in the eye using his Baleful Eye, but dies soon afterwards from his wounds. Ghaz's body is mounted on a random Chimera who happened to be nearby as a trophy, while Yarrick's body is given a dignified cremation twenty seconds later by a crashing Burna-Bommer. Without Ghaz to lead them, the Ork armies quickly fracture and the Warbosses realise they need a solution lest the humans roll over them while they are shattered. The solution is obvious - who has done the most to further the Ork cause, much more than Ghaz ever did? The answer, of course, is da Lucky Stikk. Da Lucky Stikk is promptly chosen to be Warchief of the united Orks. However, the word 'Warchief' summons Chris Metzen from the Warp, who steals the Stikk and instead brings Thrall from Azeroth and makes him lead the Orks. Under Thrall's rule, the Orks become an honourable race, who 'did nothing wrong, honest' and were definitely just victims all along.

Meanwhile, in the vacuum left by Yarrick, Creed aspires to become the greatest hero of the Imperial frontlines. Unfortunately, his latest masterplan backfires when he accidentally infiltrates half of the Cadian 8th into his underpants, costing the Imperium another great hero. At the same time, reports come in that the Adepta Sororitas are under heavy assault by what is described as an 'angry Hive Tyrant mother crying for vengeance'. Jacobus is allegedly heard murmuring something about Praxedes, moments before he is scythed down by a creature that makes mama bear look like a snotling. The ensuing battle is described as being akin to Sanctuary 101 yet far more spectacularly disastrous.

Abaddon is on the precipice of launching another assault on Cadia during the chaos (hee), and because each of his previous Black Crusades achieved their objectives he manages to rally significant support. A week later, Mack - a conscript with a rusty old plasma gun he found down his grandma's road - shoots and kills the unhelmeted Abaddon, who Mack claims was 'frantically trying to somehow put a helmet over the stiff topknot'. Because the Daemon Primarchs are busy, as Kharn puts it, 'fapping in the warp', no obvious successor is seen - until Angron appears. He smashes Kharn through a nearby wall, and the Basilisk behind it, and the cultist horde behind it, causing spectacular destruction and significantly annoying Kharn. However, he follows his Primarch still as they start tearing into the Imperium.

The resulting genocide campaign sees each Chaos Space Marine kill ten thousand innocents in a devastating display of butchery.

Oh wait, that's only like ten billion people. The Guard usually lose that much during deployment. The entire campaign is written off as a numerical error.

Life, such as it is, goes on.

 Orblivion wrote:


Because 40k is a setting, not a story. This is illustrated by the fact that both Eldrad and Captain Tycho have been killed in the fluff. Not only were these characters still in the game, but the "plot" did not advance at all through their passing.

EDIT: Also, IMO, the Horus Heresy series is garbage. It becomes more convoluted and meaningless with every additional novel, to the point where that entire event has lost most of its appeal to me.

It can be a setting as much as it likes, but when they dont do anything interesting with it for 15 years, except a retconned Eye of terror campaign, and something about Medusa where the Vostroyans did something retconned as well, they might just as well drop having named special characters in them. If there at least could have been a closer look upon smaller elements of the setting; but instead its just more angry marines and repeating all the same facts we've known since 2. edition. Where's the new energy and freshness?

About the HH, I only read the first 6 novels, but I noticed it is wildly popular, at least commercially, having spawned a 30k line even. Why not consider a 41k then?

 Lord Corellia wrote:

 Red Marine wrote:
Ugh. The hate for the ultramarines is soooo hipster.

"Oh my gosh, I hated them first.". Twirl old timey moustache, fluff man scarf, and then walk away to the swish of skinny jeans.

Theres enevitably a champion in any collection of like persons. An individual or specific group better than there fellows. Cato Sicarius's belief in himself & his chapter is based on fact. They are the best chapter of SMs out there, and the very backbone of an enter sector of tje IoM. No other chapter can make such a boast. The UM hate is envious twaddle.

Mat?

Exalted!

 triplegrim wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:


Because 40k is a setting, not a story. This is illustrated by the fact that both Eldrad and Captain Tycho have been killed in the fluff. Not only were these characters still in the game, but the "plot" did not advance at all through their passing.

EDIT: Also, IMO, the Horus Heresy series is garbage. It becomes more convoluted and meaningless with every additional novel, to the point where that entire event has lost most of its appeal to me.

It can be a setting as much as it likes, but when they dont do anything interesting with it for 15 years, except a retconned Eye of terror campaign, and something about Medusa where the Vostroyans did something retconned as well, they might just as well drop having named special characters in them. If there at least could have been a closer look upon smaller elements of the setting; but instead its just more angry marines and repeating all the same facts we've known since 2. edition. Where's the new energy and freshness?

About the HH, I only read the first 6 novels, but I noticed it is wildly popular, at least commercially, having spawned a 30k line even. Why not consider a 41k then?

I used to love the idea of an evolving Storyline. Battletech/Mechwarrior has one, and thus I've gotten to see it in action and the inevitable concequences. suffice to say I'll pass. the result is useally every faction but the developers personal favorites are made complete and utter idiots, all so that the devs favorite faction can run around winning and thus proving their leader is a "genius"

 Ashiraya wrote:
Yarrick kills Ghazghkull on Armageddon by shooting him in the eye using his Baleful Eye, but dies soon afterwards from his wounds.

Then he rolls a 4 and springs back to life.

 OrkaMorka wrote:
If only Ghazgkull was still an HQ, he'd be the first in Orks.

Uninteresting story, since his whole story is being someone who tried the same thing several times and failed; hard.

Trying to kill the same guy, a few times, and failed; hard.

Suppose to be a bad ass, but so far he's just trashed the same places over and over again just to fail everytime to plot armour.

Grukk is a good replacement, and hopefully one day maybe we'll see Mogrok.

Wazdakka needs to ride again.

Can live without Zhagstrukk. As a guy in the game, not really worth it.

It sounds like you just took a rant against Abby the Armless and changed his name
I'd never really realized how similar they were...

 redleger wrote:

 ChazSexington wrote:
Abaddon, and then have Huron rise up and become Warmaster.

I think one of the 4 would be a better replacement. I would like to see all of them fight it out, but my money is on Typhus and his destroyer hive. Leader of the red corsairs, Huron was kinda weak, although I do love to infiltrate some zombies, He is still not worthy.

None of those peasants could even hope to match the Warmaster.

OT: Tyranids shouldn't have SC at all. Way to put a face on the faceless army, GW.

I would be okay with killing off Urian Rakkarth??(DE Haemunculus). i Would nominate an SoB character but all of them are technically dead anyways

Asmodai. Based on all the fluff I've read, I think he'll lead the DA towards a schism or confrontation with the IoM. Rule wise, he's not useful at all.

I know that I've asked for any HQ but I'll open it up to LoW as there seem to be a popular (or unpopular) demand to have some LoW killed off.

In typical DA fluff, I'd imagine he'd be killed by either a fallen, or by someone within the inner circle and his death kept hush hush.

In terms of being playable all of them. I never use named characters and always prefer to make my own, which is why I'm glad relics became a thing (even if only 2% of them are any good)
Made cgaracters offer more flexibility and customization, and with some better planned and made relics or other bought special rules we could make them into equilivants of what we have now for named guys.
Plus without them as playable characters we might see the story move on because we don't need to keep selling and making that old eldrad model anymore.
But I highly doubt we'll ever see any real meaningful character death, hell even warmachine that has a moving story line can't kill of anyone without an imminent reincarnation happening.