Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
zgort wrote: I'm pretty sure in the fluff it says that humans have the largest empire, both in area and in population
So the largest organized political entity ("empire" if you will); yes, the Imperium of Man is the largest. But in terms of galactic population of specific race? Orks are way more numerous that yoomies. Orks are even described as being arguably the most successful race given that they survive and populate basically everywhere (sort of like mice or roaches on earth). Now given that Gork and Mork feed off of green skin psychic energy it actually makes a lot of sense that they are as powerful as the are.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/06 21:31:25
zgort wrote: I'm pretty sure in the fluff it says that humans have the largest empire, both in area and in population
So the largest organized political entity ("empire" if you will); yes, the Imperium of Man is the largest. But in terms of galactic population of specific race? Orks are way more numerous that yoomies. Orks are even described as being arguably the most successful race given that they survive and populate basically everywhere (sort of like mice or roaches on earth). Now given that Gork and Mork feed off of green skin psychic energy it actually makes a lot of sense that they are as powerful as the are.
Orks have even been detected in other galaxies (by the Mechanicum, I think). However, I think that I read somewhere that human energies have more of a presence in the Warp, or something like that, and that is a huge part of the reason that humans created the Chaos Gods.
To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote: There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
zgort wrote: I'm pretty sure in the fluff it says that humans have the largest empire, both in area and in population
So the largest organized political entity ("empire" if you will); yes, the Imperium of Man is the largest. But in terms of galactic population of specific race? Orks are way more numerous that yoomies. Orks are even described as being arguably the most successful race given that they survive and populate basically everywhere (sort of like mice or roaches on earth). Now given that Gork and Mork feed off of green skin psychic energy it actually makes a lot of sense that they are as powerful as the are.
Orks have even been detected in other galaxies (by the Mechanicum, I think). However, I think that I read somewhere that human energies have more of a presence in the Warp, or something like that, and that is a huge part of the reason that humans created the Chaos Gods.
Imagine how powerful the chaos gods would be if the orks fed them. Oh LORD Khorne would be OP as holy hell.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/06 23:02:22
zgort wrote: I'm pretty sure in the fluff it says that humans have the largest empire, both in area and in population
So the largest organized political entity ("empire" if you will); yes, the Imperium of Man is the largest. But in terms of galactic population of specific race? Orks are way more numerous that yoomies. Orks are even described as being arguably the most successful race given that they survive and populate basically everywhere (sort of like mice or roaches on earth). Now given that Gork and Mork feed off of green skin psychic energy it actually makes a lot of sense that they are as powerful as the are.
Orks have even been detected in other galaxies (by the Mechanicum, I think). However, I think that I read somewhere that human energies have more of a presence in the Warp, or something like that, and that is a huge part of the reason that humans created the Chaos Gods.
Imagine how powerful the chaos gods would be if the orks fed them. Oh LORD Khorne would be OP as holy hell.
Orks do feed Khorne
To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote: There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
zgort wrote: I'm pretty sure in the fluff it says that humans have the largest empire, both in area and in population
So the largest organized political entity ("empire" if you will); yes, the Imperium of Man is the largest. But in terms of galactic population of specific race? Orks are way more numerous that yoomies. Orks are even described as being arguably the most successful race given that they survive and populate basically everywhere (sort of like mice or roaches on earth). Now given that Gork and Mork feed off of green skin psychic energy it actually makes a lot of sense that they are as powerful as the are.
Orks have even been detected in other galaxies (by the Mechanicum, I think). However, I think that I read somewhere that human energies have more of a presence in the Warp, or something like that, and that is a huge part of the reason that humans created the Chaos Gods.
Imagine how powerful the chaos gods would be if the orks fed them. Oh LORD Khorne would be OP as holy hell.
Orks do feed Khorne
I dont believe so. As far as I know all their actions feed their own gods, Gork and Mork and only them. I am pretty sure that is the case anyhow.
Psienesis wrote: All violence and bloodshed in the galaxy feeds Khorne. It can also feed Gork & Mork as long as it is both (or either) Kunnin' and Brutal.
I doubt this. If you take an average human and he says, and truly believes, that he takes this mans head in the name of _______. Then ________ gets the credit, not Khorne. As almost all ork fighting is done with the passion of a Waaaaghhh, (no matter how small or local) I'm pretty sure the energy is given to Gork and Mork as that is who the Orks are always calling upon.
See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:
I think in the past they had said that there were orks that worshipped Khorne in 40k but I believe it's been since retconned out. I'm pretty sure all the orks do on a spiritual or psychic level is channeled through Mork and Gork.
I'm more up on old fantasy orc stuff than 40k but it's usually pretty similar. In fantasy their system of magic was like 100% different from everything else. If humans (good/chaos), elves, dwarves, skaven and lizardmen used windows for magic the orcs and goblins were using macs. I don't think the orc gods and magic, in fantasy of 10+ years ago anyways, have anything to do with the warp whereas most everyone else does.
Furthermore, you can make the arguement that everything done dealing with war, blood or honor deals with Khorne but what about elves worshipping Khaine? (Again I know years ago in fantasy there was something saying Khorne and Khaine were one in the same but it's been retconned out everywhere). Same would go for the harlequin dude and Tzeentch. Or Nurgle and some of the disease stuff with the Great Horned Rat in fantasy. Point being, just because Khorne is the Chaos God of war does not mean that all acts of war are forms of worshipping him that he draws energy from.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/07 05:01:38
Psienesis wrote: All violence and bloodshed in the galaxy feeds Khorne. It can also feed Gork & Mork as long as it is both (or either) Kunnin' and Brutal.
I doubt this. If you take an average human and he says, and truly believes, that he takes this mans head in the name of _______. Then ________ gets the credit, not Khorne. As almost all ork fighting is done with the passion of a Waaaaghhh, (no matter how small or local) I'm pretty sure the energy is given to Gork and Mork as that is who the Orks are always calling upon.
You don't have to dedicate a furious kill to khorne in order for the energy to go to him, in fact you don't even have to be conscious of the god. Billions of space marines/ guardsmen feed khorne when fury takes hold of them during a battle. Its the same with slaanesh, you don't even have to be conscious of him/her- but everytime anyone feels anything at all it feeds the god.
"They'll bend the knee or I'll destroy them"- Stannis Baratheon
The Wise Dane wrote: Funny how a lot believe the Emps is the most powerful, when 1) he isn't a full God at this time, and 2) he was the guy who went "DON'T WORSHIP ANYTHING!" as his main way of fighting Chaos. That doesn't sound like the Emps beating up the other Gods at all.
Gork and Mork do feel like the most powerful. Good that they don't fight the others most of the time.
Even if the original Emperor did not become a God, his souls is still alive, basically drifting in the currents of the Warp (Lost and the Damned, pg 175), there have been at least 1.2 e 18 people alive since he died - let's subtract about five hundred years from those people (time for the Imperial Cult to take root, though the Emperor was being worshipped even during the Unification Wars, as evidenced in The Last Church), which means 1.14 e 18 people, that means 1,140,000,000,000,000,000, which is 1.14 sextillion people. Compare that to the fact that that even a few million humans were enough to completely destabilize the Warp and lead to the creation of the Warp Gods, that is more than enough souls to create a new God.
Just in case you have not read Realms of Chaos , I'll explain how Gods are created in 40k: People die, and the energies of their souls divide and coalesce with those of other souls. For instance, if a thousand warriors and a thousand scholars were to die, the warriors' peaceful beliefs and loving tendencies would coalesce into a pool of energy, while their more prominent hateful and warlike beliefs and tendencies would coalesce into a pool of energy. On the flip side of the coin, the scholars' wisdom and love of knowledge (a major part of who they are) would coalesce into a separate pool of energy as they shed their hate and other violent energies which would go into the same "pools" as that of the warriors. These pools of energies could be considered "slumbering gods", and the more souls that get added to them, the more powerful they become, and the closer they come to sentience.
In the same manner would a God-Emperor be created. His sextillions of worshipers would die and the parts of their beings that were devoted to the Emperor would coalesce, and, eventually, create a new God of the Warp. Now, with how the Chaos Gods have been continually fed by the last 10k years' state of things (stagnation, constant death (Nurgle), upheaval, boatloads of magic-users (Tzeentch), hatred and war abound (Khorne), sensation and excess in virtually everything done (Slaanesh), they would have grown to be more powerful than they were during the Great Crusade, when the Emperor slaughtered their worshipers in the trillions, which would have severely weakened them, as they lost virtually all of their cults, and, when you worship a God, you essentially promise it your soul.
My source for all of this is Realms of Chaos: the Lost and the Damned pg. 7-9
You don't need to source all that, I trust you to know stuff like this
Anyway, thinking that all humans power the Emps is a bit broad I feel. It's like real life religions - For every true believer, there's probably five or six casual ones, and I think that's true for 40k as well. There's a lot of true believers, but I think most people take the religion with a grain of salt, practicing it within some loose parameters. That still feeds them, but as we know with the chaos gods, regular human stuff isn't powerful enough to power them (Being hungry and wishing for food doesn't power Slaanesh, but eating five times the usual amount of decadent and priceless food, with exotic dancers and music, will power it).
So, to recap - the Black Templars fuels the Emps, but your average Imperial Guard Regiment doesn't. Unless they are from a world owned by the Ecclesiarchy. Then mofos be mad zealous yo.
Psienesis wrote: All violence and bloodshed in the galaxy feeds Khorne. It can also feed Gork & Mork as long as it is both (or either) Kunnin' and Brutal.
I doubt this. If you take an average human and he says, and truly believes, that he takes this mans head in the name of _______. Then ________ gets the credit, not Khorne. As almost all ork fighting is done with the passion of a Waaaaghhh, (no matter how small or local) I'm pretty sure the energy is given to Gork and Mork as that is who the Orks are always calling upon.
You don't have to dedicate a furious kill to khorne in order for the energy to go to him, in fact you don't even have to be conscious of the god. Billions of space marines/ guardsmen feed khorne when fury takes hold of them during a battle. Its the same with slaanesh, you don't even have to be conscious of him/her- but everytime anyone feels anything at all it feeds the god.
It sorta asks the question of "what is a unit of power?"
How much does "One Rage" feed Khorne, and how much does "One Feel" feed Slaanesh?
Psienesis wrote: All violence and bloodshed in the galaxy feeds Khorne. It can also feed Gork & Mork as long as it is both (or either) Kunnin' and Brutal.
I doubt this. If you take an average human and he says, and truly believes, that he takes this mans head in the name of _______. Then ________ gets the credit, not Khorne. As almost all ork fighting is done with the passion of a Waaaaghhh, (no matter how small or local) I'm pretty sure the energy is given to Gork and Mork as that is who the Orks are always calling upon.
You don't have to dedicate a furious kill to khorne in order for the energy to go to him, in fact you don't even have to be conscious of the god. Billions of space marines/ guardsmen feed khorne when fury takes hold of them during a battle. Its the same with slaanesh, you don't even have to be conscious of him/her- but everytime anyone feels anything at all it feeds the god.
It sorta asks the question of "what is a unit of power?"
How much does "One Rage" feed Khorne, and how much does "One Feel" feed Slaanesh?
The answer is indeterminable. You'd have to find a way to measure how much Khorne grows (an impossible task in itself) for each act and even if you somehow found a way to do that it would be incorrect because at the same times thousands of other acts of bloodshed would have occurred simultaneously, so it isn't a fair test. Same goes for Slaanesh and any other chaos god.
"They'll bend the knee or I'll destroy them"- Stannis Baratheon
Ashiraya wrote: Slaanesh is powered by excess in anything, not just simple feelings.
Drinking a good cup of coffee and enjoying it doesn't feed Slaanesh.
Slaanesh is the prince of pleasure and self indulgence too, just as Nurgle is also the god of love as well as despair. Nice cup of coffee is both pleasurable and self indulgent. SLAANESH WORSHIP!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/07 13:25:56
"They'll bend the knee or I'll destroy them"- Stannis Baratheon
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
It is not excessive.
If your coffee powder was intermixed with the ground bones of innocents that you took from them one by one while they were still alive, and you made them watch while grinding them, and having an orgy while drinking, then yes, it would feed Slaanesh!
If your coffee powder was intermixed with the ground bones of innocents that you took from them one by one while they were still alive, and you made them watch while grinding them, and having an orgy while drinking, then yes, it would feed Slaanesh!
Dude I'm joking
"They'll bend the knee or I'll destroy them"- Stannis Baratheon
The fluff gives a pretty clear answer: Tzeentch used to be the strongest by far, until the other Chaos gods united to take him down a notch. Now Khorne is said to be the strongest.
Also, the Emperor is not a god. He is a very powerful psychic human, but aside from his powers he is still a 'normal' guy, not some kind of supernatural entity. Also, he is currently vegetating and incapable of action, his body having rotten away and all. Only his soul clings on to the Golden Throne, and the Throne is failing...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/07 14:36:08
The Wise Dane wrote: Funny how a lot believe the Emps is the most powerful, when 1) he isn't a full God at this time, and 2) he was the guy who went "DON'T WORSHIP ANYTHING!" as his main way of fighting Chaos. That doesn't sound like the Emps beating up the other Gods at all.
Gork and Mork do feel like the most powerful. Good that they don't fight the others most of the time.
Even if the original Emperor did not become a God, his souls is still alive, basically drifting in the currents of the Warp (Lost and the Damned, pg 175), there have been at least 1.2 e 18 people alive since he died - let's subtract about five hundred years from those people (time for the Imperial Cult to take root, though the Emperor was being worshipped even during the Unification Wars, as evidenced in The Last Church), which means 1.14 e 18 people, that means 1,140,000,000,000,000,000, which is 1.14 sextillion people. Compare that to the fact that that even a few million humans were enough to completely destabilize the Warp and lead to the creation of the Warp Gods, that is more than enough souls to create a new God.
Just in case you have not read Realms of Chaos , I'll explain how Gods are created in 40k: People die, and the energies of their souls divide and coalesce with those of other souls. For instance, if a thousand warriors and a thousand scholars were to die, the warriors' peaceful beliefs and loving tendencies would coalesce into a pool of energy, while their more prominent hateful and warlike beliefs and tendencies would coalesce into a pool of energy. On the flip side of the coin, the scholars' wisdom and love of knowledge (a major part of who they are) would coalesce into a separate pool of energy as they shed their hate and other violent energies which would go into the same "pools" as that of the warriors. These pools of energies could be considered "slumbering gods", and the more souls that get added to them, the more powerful they become, and the closer they come to sentience.
In the same manner would a God-Emperor be created. His sextillions of worshipers would die and the parts of their beings that were devoted to the Emperor would coalesce, and, eventually, create a new God of the Warp. Now, with how the Chaos Gods have been continually fed by the last 10k years' state of things (stagnation, constant death (Nurgle), upheaval, boatloads of magic-users (Tzeentch), hatred and war abound (Khorne), sensation and excess in virtually everything done (Slaanesh), they would have grown to be more powerful than they were during the Great Crusade, when the Emperor slaughtered their worshipers in the trillions, which would have severely weakened them, as they lost virtually all of their cults, and, when you worship a God, you essentially promise it your soul.
My source for all of this is Realms of Chaos: the Lost and the Damned pg. 7-9
You don't need to source all that, I trust you to know stuff like this
Anyway, thinking that all humans power the Emps is a bit broad I feel. It's like real life religions - For every true believer, there's probably five or six casual ones, and I think that's true for 40k as well. There's a lot of true believers, but I think most people take the religion with a grain of salt, practicing it within some loose parameters. That still feeds them, but as we know with the chaos gods, regular human stuff isn't powerful enough to power them (Being hungry and wishing for food doesn't power Slaanesh, but eating five times the usual amount of decadent and priceless food, with exotic dancers and music, will power it).
So, to recap - the Black Templars fuels the Emps, but your average Imperial Guard Regiment doesn't. Unless they are from a world owned by the Ecclesiarchy. Then mofos be mad zealous yo.
They don't need to be "true believers", really, they can be the casual lay-worshippers, the kind that go to church on Sunday, get a bit more religious around the holidays and try to live more-or-less kinda-sorta like how the preacher says to, as long as it isn't too inconvenient, but not making too many sacrifices towards that end.... basically like most people on the planet of any RL religion anywhere... yes, that feeds *some* energy into it (because they at least have some degree of conceptual belief in the Emperor, they've heard of the guy).
Also, the Emperor is not a god. He is a very powerful psychic human, but aside from his powers he is still a 'normal' guy, not some kind of supernatural entity. Also, he is currently vegetating and incapable of action, his body having rotten away and all. Only his soul clings on to the Golden Throne, and the Throne is failing...
And then we have Living Saints, the Storm of the Emperor's Wrath, non-psychic mofo's doing all kinds of miraculous things from time to time, Legion of the Damned, the manifestation of his psychic might in the Astronomican and the feth-off powerful psychic presence that surrounds Terra and apparently disintegrates daemons at a touch.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
Also, the Emperor is not a god. He is a very powerful psychic human, but aside from his powers he is still a 'normal' guy, not some kind of supernatural entity. Also, he is currently vegetating and incapable of action, his body having rotten away and all. Only his soul clings on to the Golden Throne, and the Throne is failing...
And then we have Living Saints, the Storm of the Emperor's Wrath, non-psychic mofo's doing all kinds of miraculous things from time to time, Legion of the Damned, the manifestation of his psychic might in the Astronomican and the feth-off powerful psychic presence that surrounds Terra and apparently disintegrates daemons at a touch.
Hence 'Powerful'.
I think it's about time to decide upon what being a God actually means, since, following this, a God is just a very powerful individual. Is a 40k God a concept, a generalisation, like modern religions usually tend to believe, or is it just some frickmothering powerful guy who gets power from believers, which the pagans tended to worship? I graviate towards the ladder, making the Emps basically unable to compete in this poll - As he was supposed to from the start.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/07 23:06:25
Iron_Captain wrote: The fluff gives a pretty clear answer: Tzeentch used to be the strongest by far, until the other Chaos gods united to take him down a notch. Now Khorne is said to be the strongest.
Also, the Emperor is not a god. He is a very powerful psychic human, but aside from his powers he is still a 'normal' guy, not some kind of supernatural entity. Also, he is currently vegetating and incapable of action, his body having rotten away and all. Only his soul clings on to the Golden Throne, and the Throne is failing...
Except that he's performing miracles all the time, controls an army of daemons, definitely seems to support some form of his own afterlife, and even has the time to have beside chats with dying marines.
“There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
Iron_Captain wrote: The fluff gives a pretty clear answer: Tzeentch used to be the strongest by far, until the other Chaos gods united to take him down a notch. Now Khorne is said to be the strongest.
Also, the Emperor is not a god. He is a very powerful psychic human, but aside from his powers he is still a 'normal' guy, not some kind of supernatural entity. Also, he is currently vegetating and incapable of action, his body having rotten away and all. Only his soul clings on to the Golden Throne, and the Throne is failing...
I direct you to my previous post. The God-Emperor would form, regardless of whether or not the New Man (Emperor, I'm just calling him this to distinguish) wanted to be a God or not. If the New Man rejected the souls he discovered to be coalescing in the image of a God-Emperor, then he would simply be another soul floating in the eddies of the Warp, eternally waiting to return to the Materium. However, these souls would still coalesce, and would still create a new God, and the sextillions of souls' energies would be more than ample to create a new god, and would create a new god, regardless of whether or not the New Man wants to be at the helm.
Also, the Emperor is not a god. He is a very powerful psychic human, but aside from his powers he is still a 'normal' guy, not some kind of supernatural entity. Also, he is currently vegetating and incapable of action, his body having rotten away and all. Only his soul clings on to the Golden Throne, and the Throne is failing...
And then we have Living Saints, the Storm of the Emperor's Wrath, non-psychic mofo's doing all kinds of miraculous things from time to time, Legion of the Damned, the manifestation of his psychic might in the Astronomican and the feth-off powerful psychic presence that surrounds Terra and apparently disintegrates daemons at a touch.
Hence 'Powerful'.
I think it's about time to decide upon what being a God actually means, since, following this, a God is just a very powerful individual. Is a 40k God a concept, a generalisation, like modern religions usually tend to believe, or is it just some frickmothering powerful guy who gets power from believers, which the pagans tended to worship? I graviate towards the ladder, making the Emps basically unable to compete in this poll - As he was supposed to from the start.
A Chaos Power forms through similar souls coalescing in the Warp, and amassing sufficient power for their combined intelligences to form one super-intelligence. A Chaos Power (or Chaos God), is formed of virtually every type of soul out there - fortunately, however, most Chaos Powers are basically "slumbering Gods", and have yet to achieve the critical mass necessary to become sentient and able to influence other beings. Khorne, the God of War, hate, anger, etc. is fed by virtually any aggressive action, by virtue of these actions creating aggressive energies. In the same manner, Tzeentch is fed by magic, change, hope, and a dozen other things, by simple virtue of the energies they create. If a sorcerer were to use magic, he would be worshiping Tzeentch without even knowing it, simply virtue of the energies his sorcery gives off. A sorcerer's soul, by virtue of its beliefs and tendencies, would have its majority be contributed to Tzeentch, after its body dies. However, its aggressive energies, along with its feelings of despair, love of pleasure, etc. would all run off into their respective pools of energy, aka "Gods of the Warp".
However, Eldar Gods are a completely different story. They could be considered "Gods of Order", almost, in that they were not created by same energies of Chaos. It is generally believed that the great Eldar Heroes of the War in Heaven acquired enough power from the Old Ones and the Warp that they basically "ascended", and became Gods through virtue of their dwelling the Warp and their level of power. Of course, the Eldar eventually stopped worshiping their Pantheon (or, at least the non-Craftworld ones did), and began inadvertently feeding Slaanesh (or, what would eventually become Slaanesh). Whether or not you deem these to be Gods is irrevelevant, as they still gain power from being worshiped, and this is my criteria for a 40k God. (it's irrelevant to me, as this seems to be the only link between the different Gods in 40k. Your opinion matters, but, unless you can convince me that I'm wrong, it doesn't matter to me)
After this, you have Gork and Mork, who (most likely) were formed due to the Krorks' (eventually, the Orks') WAAAAGH!!! energies. It seems to me that WAAAAGH!!! energies, worship energies, and brutally kunnin'/kunningly brutal Ork souls are what feed these Gods. On these Gods, I am less certain. However, what I am certain of is that worship feeds them, and they are the only Gods to have refrained from actively trying to kill other Gods, and are the only Gods to have not created Daemons (even the Emperor has his Daemons; the Legion of the Damned, the Astronomicon, and his Angels of Fire).
EDIT: LET IT BE KNOWN THAT THE CODING FOR THESE POSTS IS STARTING TO PISS ME OFF. I SWEAR, IT TOOK ME TEN MINUTES TO GET WHAT I WROTE OUT OF THE QUOTES. CAPS ARE FUN TO TYPE IN.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2015/08/08 18:03:33
To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote: There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
However, Eldar Gods are a completely different story. They could be considered "Gods of Order", almost, in that they were not created by same energies of Chaos. It is generally believed that the great Eldar Heroes of the War in Heaven acquired enough power from the Old Ones and the Warp that they basically "ascended", and became Gods through virtue of their dwelling the Warp and their level of power. Of course, the Eldar eventually stopped worshiping their Pantheon (or, at least the non-Craftworld ones did), and began inadvertently feeding Slaanesh (or, what would eventually become Slaanesh). Whether or not you deem these to be Gods is irrevelevant, as they still gain power from being worshiped, and this is my criteria for a 40k God. (it's irrelevant to me, as this seems to be the only link between the different Gods in 40k. Your opinion matters, but, unless you can convince me that I'm wrong, it doesn't matter to me)
I have a different theory of the Eldar Gods you might find interesting.
The War in the Heavens was a great battle held by the Eldar Gods fighting everything from Death Itself to each other. But wasn't the War in the Heavens the battle between the Old Ones and the C'Tan lead Necrons? I'd argue they are the same event, told through different perspectives. The Eldar Gods we know are what the Eldar perceived the Old Ones and C'Tan as for example The Creator (Asuryan) and The Trickster Deity which helped and hindered both sides (The Deciever) are some of the main players in this Galactic Wide War that has been told for generations. Then, as the war ended, the story interweaved Myth and the Myth became worship which in turn made reflections in the Warp which eventually became living, sentient Gods. This explains why the Deciever and Cegorarch are interchangeable in the story of convincing the Outsider to go mad, because it's an action the Deceiver did, but when the story was told they named him as the Laughing God, so the Warp Entity is basically the reflected emotions of the Early Eldar telling the impossible battles around them as stories.
I'm not sure why, but this kind of resonates better with me then the Gods simply being transcended Eldar, it makes me think that their are rules to the Warp and Godhood, they are just convoluted as all hell.
However, Eldar Gods are a completely different story. They could be considered "Gods of Order", almost, in that they were not created by same energies of Chaos. It is generally believed that the great Eldar Heroes of the War in Heaven acquired enough power from the Old Ones and the Warp that they basically "ascended", and became Gods through virtue of their dwelling the Warp and their level of power. Of course, the Eldar eventually stopped worshiping their Pantheon (or, at least the non-Craftworld ones did), and began inadvertently feeding Slaanesh (or, what would eventually become Slaanesh). Whether or not you deem these to be Gods is irrevelevant, as they still gain power from being worshiped, and this is my criteria for a 40k God. (it's irrelevant to me, as this seems to be the only link between the different Gods in 40k. Your opinion matters, but, unless you can convince me that I'm wrong, it doesn't matter to me)
I have a different theory of the Eldar Gods you might find interesting.
The War in the Heavens was a great battle held by the Eldar Gods fighting everything from Death Itself to each other. But wasn't the War in the Heavens the battle between the Old Ones and the C'Tan lead Necrons? I'd argue they are the same event, told through different perspectives. The Eldar Gods we know are what the Eldar perceived the Old Ones and C'Tan as for example The Creator (Asuryan) and The Trickster Deity which helped and hindered both sides (The Deciever) are some of the main players in this Galactic Wide War that has been told for generations. Then, as the war ended, the story interweaved Myth and the Myth became worship which in turn made reflections in the Warp which eventually became living, sentient Gods. This explains why the Deciever and Cegorarch are interchangeable in the story of convincing the Outsider to go mad, because it's an action the Deceiver did, but when the story was told they named him as the Laughing God, so the Warp Entity is basically the reflected emotions of the Early Eldar telling the impossible battles around them as stories.
I'm not sure why, but this kind of resonates better with me then the Gods simply being transcended Eldar, it makes me think that their are rules to the Warp and Godhood, they are just convoluted as all hell.
I like that. My headcanon has been revised.
To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote: There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
Psienesis wrote: All violence and bloodshed in the galaxy feeds Khorne. It can also feed Gork & Mork as long as it is both (or either) Kunnin' and Brutal.
Beautifully put. I too believe there is a distinction between violence and orkiness. Gork and Mork feed off of the concept of orkiness. While violence is predominant in Ork Kultur it's pretty far from the only thing but keeping this within the boundaries of violence for the sake of this distinction I'd say even when Orks commit violence it's not necessarily feeding Khorne (maybe it might a bit at a base level). Rather it would be the way in which an Ork commited an act of violence (or other acts not necessarily violent) by displaying such Kunnin Brutality and Brutal Kunnin that it cause all Orks nearby to punch their fists into the sky and yell Waaaaaaaaagh!. I want to describe this Orkiness to better give a picture in our heads what feeds Gork and Mork but as someone had pointed out in a thread before, Orks fall into the Orange Blue Morality category that is far too inhuman for me to get a full grip on. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlueAndOrangeMorality
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/08 22:13:46
The empy isnt even a god yet, but he still holds back all 4 chaos gods from his throne, his angels of fire fighting back incursions around the eye of terror. What do you think happens when he finally ascends to god hold?
(Note, he holds.back choas, he doesn't -win- he merely stalemates their powers. With little.bursts of his power getting through to strengthen marines and perform 'miracles' just as bursts of Chaos get through.
Is there any real evidence that Big E actually does hold off the Gods? It doen't even make much sense for them to beat him, as his empire causes so much stuff for them to feed off of.
raiden wrote: The empy isnt even a god yet, but he still holds back all 4 chaos gods from his throne, his angels of fire fighting back incursions around the eye of terror. What do you think happens when he finally ascends to god hold?
(Note, he holds.back choas, he doesn't -win- he merely stalemates their powers. With little.bursts of his power getting through to strengthen marines and perform 'miracles' just as bursts of Chaos get through.
All this really means is that he's keeping a warp rift shut. He's hardly the first being to do that...
As for the "Angels of Fire"; it's not made at all clear exactly what those are, other than that they are something to do with the Astronomicon and the Emperor. For all we know, they are simply the Warp-reflections of the constant hunger of the Emperor; they cruise around parts of the Eye looking for things to devour. It's not stated that the Emperor controls them. It's hardly the first time something like that has happened to some humans; look at the Legion of the Damned.
Selym wrote: Is there any real evidence that Big E actually does hold off the Gods? It doen't even make much sense for them to beat him, as his empire causes so much stuff for them to feed off of.
Descriptive statements from the "narrator voice" of 40K, rather than in-character statements by characters in novels and codices.
Basically, it is simply what we are told he is doing from a third-person narrative point of view, rather than an in-universe statement of belief.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
It's tough to define "power" as wielded by a god, but Tzeentch is definitely the closest thing there is to THE God. No matter what happens, Tzeentch wins. Tzeentch has a plan for everyone and everything, and everything that occurs is part of the plan.
As far as Chaos gods are concerned, it's blindingly obvious that Tzeentch is the one in charge. He can't directly tell Nurgle or Khorne what to do, but they always end up doing whatever he needs them to be doing.
The old fluff did indeed state that the Emperor has spent the past 10,000 years using sheer willpower to hold back the Chaos gods and prevent the eye of terror from engulfing the universe. Unfortunately his power is severely limited while he's trapped on the throne. Therefore he has to eat a million psykers' souls for breakfast every day so he'll have enough psychic power to keep the warp in check.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/12 19:25:46
