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Seaward wrote:
Saw it. Not bad. Better than the prequels, but that's damning with faint praise.

Not wild about any of the aerial combat. X-wings way too nimble in atmosphere for realism. G-LOC must not be a thing in a galaxy far, far away.

Wasn't sold on the new baddie. Well-acted, but the character was pretty meh. Boyega and Ridley were both really good.

I just find it strange some are unaccepting of this movie being decent but absurdly good or bad. I mean yeah it's star wars but the only time I ever really got into star wars was with 'empire at war' and more so with the 'jedi knight' series. Which is honestly one of the most fun jedi games I ever played (though I never played the one with darth vader's secret apprentice). Also aside from the big reveal of who revan was I never was that into KotOR either. It was fun sure but it wasn't my thing. Perhaps it's because I'm not into rpg's.

Far as this movie goes it's in between both the prequels and the original trilogy and honestly that leaves a lot of middle ground of how good or bad this new trilogy could be. Managing to leave those boundaries or get close to another movie would be need for attention whether the set of movies were bad or good (mostly original trilogy being good and prequels being bad). I won't say the original trilogy is perfect but it set the standard for star wars and with as much old lore anchoring you in it could cause problems getting new material that might make the movies better though it could make them worse.

Anyway this post was written by me after taking my sleeping pill and being tired as I was chances are it's effecting my thinking processes. If anything I say doesn't sound fully thought out and pieced together that could be why.

This is the first Star Wars movie I've seen in the theaters, and I have to say that I thought it was the best SW movie I've seen. I didn't see the original trilogy until I was around 27, so to me they weren't sacred cows - I thought they were OK, but not great. I thought the prequels were pretty awful. Ultimately, I think saying this was the best of the franchise wasn't a super high bar to jump for me.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I'm also going to say her name 'Phasma' is a nickname considering 'Finn' like all the other stormtroopers had a serial number name.

The whole "trained from birth and only given a serial number" thing doesn't quite hold up anyway, unless maybe it's only a part of the Storm Troopers that are trained that way. On Starkiller base a couple of them are discussing the new T-17 like a couple of our soldiers might be discussing a new car model, and you see others that have more personality than you'd expect from a brainwashed number.

So, any bets on if Sick Spin Trooper makes a return in Episode VII as the real Boba Fett 2.0?

 Wyzilla wrote:
So, any bets on if Sick Spin Trooper makes a return in Episode VII as the real Boba Fett 2.0?

Sadly TR-8R suffered the Boba Fett lame death curse.

 AduroT wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
So, any bets on if Sick Spin Trooper makes a return in Episode VII as the real Boba Fett 2.0?

Sadly TR-8R suffered the Boba Fett lame death curse.

Considering the following he suddenly generated, I wouldn't be surprised if he was brought back as an additional enemy for Finn.

Just got back from watching the movie and it's ok. Being a child of the 70's and 80's it just doesn't hold up to New Hope or Empire strikes back. It's better then the prequels but that bar was set pretty low. Didnt need another Death Star movie and that was one of the things I hated about the return of the Jedi besides the Ewoks.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Seeing that TFA's main villain is a whiny teenager, I'd embrace any sort of real villain.

Kylo Ren was a weak villain but a strong character. I also enjoyed the meta character of this young upstart DarthVader desperately trying to live up to the old one, knowing he'll never be as good. His conscience kept telling him to do the right thing and be his own man, but his sense of duty compelled him to stick to the path of his predecessor despite his doubts that he was a weak rehash of the original. Even killing off an old cast member from the original didn't quiet his misgivings.

I think Kylo Ren is an interesting villain, because we're going to see him grow alongside his Nemesis (Rey) simultaneously. Their character arcs are going to mirror each other to some extent.

Kylo Ren is going to grow stronger with the Dark Side, whilst feeling the "temptation" of the Light Side (niggling doubts and guilt, subconscious desire to reconnect with family and seek redemption), and Rey is going to grow stronger with the Light Side whilst feeling tempted by the Dark Side.

By the end of the trilogy, theres a possibility that they'll both switch sides.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I think Kylo Ren is an interesting villain, because we're going to see him grow alongside his Nemesis (Rey) simultaneously. Their character arcs are going to mirror each other to some extent.

Kylo Ren is going to grow stronger with the Dark Side, whilst feeling the "temptation" of the Light Side (niggling doubts and guilt, subconscious desire to reconnect with family and seek redemption), and Rey is going to grow stronger with the Light Side whilst feeling tempted by the Dark Side.

By the end of the trilogy, theres a possibility that they'll both switch sides.

Very much this. I liked Ren far more than I expected to from the previews, and it will be really interesting to watch how they develop his character. Sure, he's a little less than awe-inspiring right now, but he has the potential to grow into a kickass villain.


Keep in mind that in the original movie, Vader really did little more than wander around looking manacing, for the most part, and copped a similar level of disrespect from at least one Imperial officer... It was only in Empire that he really became the fearsome badass. I suspect that Ren will follow a similar progression, and will be considerably pointier in the next movie.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

By the end of the trilogy, theres a possibility that they'll both switch sides.

I do kind of wonder if that first shot of Rey hints to the dual nature of both of their characters.





That first scene with her is really the only point in the movie where we see her with her "mask" on, which makes me think that it could be a piece of foreshadowing regarding her path.

quote=Sigvatr 659790 8344612 b979d1b888d9590869aa6e2901084f93.png]Seeing that TFA's main villain is a whiny teenager, I'd embrace any sort of real villain.

As far as telekinesis powers are concerned...Kylo is years ahead of Rey. Kylo Ren lifted a guy off his feet and dragged him across a room using his mind. He also stopped a blaster shot in mid air and kept it there whilst he walked around had a couple of conversations and was distracted by the emotional turmoil of a disobedient Stormtrooper, and it only resumed it's trajectory when he walked off.

He's got skills no doubt. But in terms of power, we've seen a direct contest between them. The saber did not go to Ren.

 Kojiro wrote:
He's got skills no doubt. But in terms of power, we've seen a direct contest between them. The saber did not go to Ren.

The wand chooses the wizard Harry, not the other way around.

He also wasn't even aware it was a contest. He believed she was still unconscious. If he knew she was countering him, he would have put a lot more effort into it.

Its like trying to open a door without realizing someone is on the other side holding the handle. If you're not expecting resistance, you don't put a lot of effort into it.

 Compel wrote:
According to Wiki, that Star Destroyer was pretty much almost a one-off.

That's pretty pathetic for an organization that builds Starkilllers. Even the Executor wasn't a one-off, and that ship was about 100 times more massive than the Resurgence. Heck, the FO could have bought a dozen capital ships with a rounding error of Starkiller Base's budget.

Are you ascribing some kind of intelligence to the lightsaber itself? Or something else?

Because Rey has shown she's stronger with the mind probe and then again with the actual fight. Isn't it simply easier to believe she is indeed simply stronger with TK too? Certainly easier than borrowing mechanics from a different franchise and having to explain why Luke struggled to pull the very same item.

Let's not discount the mechanism of the force- dark or light, it draws from a focused mind. Kylo is shot, cut, and dealing with his whole reluctant patricide issues- he is far from at his best. Rey's fresh from an escape she managed with the force, and is trying to protect Finn , and possibly avenge her father figure. She's got no doubt about her motivations or path right now. Time and again, we've seen force users of greater skill beaten by their inferiors with more conviction.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
That's pretty pathetic for an organization that builds Starkilllers. Even the Executor wasn't a one-off, and that ship was about 100 times more massive than the Resurgence. Heck, the FO could have bought a dozen capital ships with a rounding error of Starkiller Base's budget.

It's pretty obvious unfortunately that the FO would have been MASSIVELY better off if they'd just built ships instead of the base. God knows how many ships you could buy for the same resources.

 Kojiro wrote:
Are you ascribing some kind of intelligence to the lightsaber itself? Or something else?

Or something like that. Remember the vision Rey had just from touching the lightsaber? There's clearly some kind of connection, whatever form it takes.

 Kojiro wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
That's pretty pathetic for an organization that builds Starkilllers. Even the Executor wasn't a one-off, and that ship was about 100 times more massive than the Resurgence. Heck, the FO could have bought a dozen capital ships with a rounding error of Starkiller Base's budget.

It's pretty obvious unfortunately that the FO would have been MASSIVELY better off if they'd just built ships instead of the base. God knows how many ships you could buy for the same resources.

The Dark Side doe shave some pathological obsession with super weapons though.

 Compel wrote:
But going up against a force sensitive, force powered will. That's when he's gotten unstuck.

That is entirely at odds with his mission of hunting down Luke.

Rey's fresh from an escape she managed with the force, and is trying to protect Finn , and possibly avenge her father figure.

If by 'fresh' you mean has been through the stress of abduction and sneaking through a base in fear for her life, watching her father figure die, been slammed into a tree and dropped to the ground and then watcher her only friend in the world get cut up then yeah, she's 'fresh'.

She's not at all suffering with any issues and would be 100% focused. And if she's drawing on her anger over Solo, or her fear over Finn or just letting the stress out after being abducted... well I'll leave it to you to decide if those emotions are Light side...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:
The Dark Side doe shave some pathological obsession with super weapons though.

I think more likely JJ was just lazy with the script.

 Kojiro wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
The Dark Side doe shave some pathological obsession with super weapons though.

I think more likely JJ was just lazy with the script.

Maybe.

But that still doesn't change the fact that the Sith have always had an obsession, and preference, for giant super weapons over conventional power.

Hunting down doesn't necessarily mean entering into fisticuffs with a jedi master.

It could, for example, mean marching on his location with a legion of stormtroopers and a battallion of "Knights of Ren" - whatever they are...

 Kojiro wrote:

 Compel wrote:
But going up against a force sensitive, force powered will. That's when he's gotten unstuck.

That is entirely at odds with his mission of hunting down Luke.

So far his mission is to *find* Luke, not *fight* him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kojiro wrote:
.

She's not at all suffering with any issues and would be 100% focused. And if she's drawing on her anger over Solo, or her fear over Finn or just letting the stress out after being abducted... well I'll leave it to you to decide if those emotions are Light side...

I think this is probably where the tension in Episode VIII is coming from. Instead of having a repeat of Dark vs Light in TFA we might have two characters who are growing and who are both being pulled in the opposite direction of their path. Dark conflicted with Light, and Light being pulled by Dark.

Which IMO would be a better story than "untrained(?) light already beat moderately trained dark, now trained light faces more trained dark!".

 d-usa wrote:

 Kojiro wrote:
He's got skills no doubt. But in terms of power, we've seen a direct contest between them. The saber did not go to Ren.

The wand chooses the wizard Harry, not the other way around.

Mjolnir only serves Thor.

The one ring chose Bilbo,

The sword in the stone chose Arthur.

Etc, etc.

Weapons or items of great destiny and fate choose who will wield them as they recognize their true master. They are not ordinary items and often have a will and intelligence of their own. As the flashback scene shows there's clearly something going on with Luke's lightsaber and that is has a chosen connection to Rey. It's hard to say if the light saber is just acting as some sort of force conduit for Luke's powers or stored memories but it's clearly something unique and contains a power that Ren wants for himself.

 Kojiro wrote:
Because Rey has shown she's stronger with the mind probe and then again with the actual fight.

To be fair, she showed that she was better in an actual fight than a guy who had just been shot in the side with a high-powered crossbow...

 insaniak wrote:

 Kojiro wrote:
Because Rey has shown she's stronger with the mind probe and then again with the actual fight.

To be fair, she showed that she was better in an actual fight than a guy who had just been shot in the side with a high-powered crossbow...

She had also been hurled into a tree, which would usually kill someone/break bones.

 paulson games wrote:

Mjolnir only serves Thor.

The one ring chose Bilbo,

The sword in the stone chose Arthur.

Etc, etc.

Weapons or items of great destiny and fate choose who will wield them as they recognize their true master. They are not ordinary items and often have a will and intelligence of their own. As the flashback scene shows there's clearly something going on with Luke's lightsaber and that is has a chosen connection to Rey. It's hard to say if the light saber is just acting as some sort of force conduit for Luke's powers or stored memories but it's clearly something unique and contains a power that Ren wants for himself.

The problem with all these examples- and the wand- is that all of the above are all magical items, imbued with their own powers and even some form of intelligence. Lightsabers on the other hand are purely technological devices. They could be mass produced with nothing more than the right facilities. They're no more special than blasters in that regard. Now it could be that JJ has decided to put magic items into Star Wars and the saber now has some say in who wields it. That could be the case. But it's simply easier for me to believe that Rey is just consistent in being more powerful than Ren.