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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 generalgrog wrote:
 kronk wrote:
 generalgrog wrote:
Again...circumstances have changed since she made that oath. If you can't grasp that, I can't help you.

GG


You pledge an oath to uphold the law of the land.

If you can't understand that, we can't help you.

KK III



For the third time...the law of the land changed to something beyond her conscience.Therefore the circumstances of her oath changed. I.e what she pledged her oath to changed.

Gg


Agreed, so now she has the option of resigning or letting her officers provide those certificates.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

 generalgrog wrote:
 kronk wrote:
 generalgrog wrote:
Again...circumstances have changed since she made that oath. If you can't grasp that, I can't help you.

GG


You pledge an oath to uphold the law of the land.

If you can't understand that, we can't help you.

KK III



For the third time...the law of the land changed to something beyond her conscience.Therefore the circumstances of her oath changed. I.e what she pledged her oath to changed.

Gg


For the 2500th time, the proper thing to do in that instance is quit and find another job.

DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

 agnosto wrote:
 kronk wrote:
 agnosto wrote:

Off-topic-Ancient Hebrew is a bear to translate and get meaning out of, the King James version of the bible took one potential translation of Leviticus and ran with it.


Then maybe they were cool with the gays!


For the most part, yes. It was so commonplace in the ancient world that Jesus never even talked about it; never mentioned it as a sin, something to be avoided or anything. Leviticus was written by Paul, after Jesus' death and even then he's arguably talking about sex with temple prostitutes (using a greek word that he made-up himself).


Sorry, off-topic.


Paul wrote one of the Five Books of Moses?

Off topic, but if I were a gay man who had trouble with my pick-up game yet really, really wanted to get nailed, hard, whenever I went to the club, then that is the tattoo I would get to make it happen.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 agnosto wrote:
 kronk wrote:
 agnosto wrote:

Off-topic-Ancient Hebrew is a bear to translate and get meaning out of, the King James version of the bible took one potential translation of Leviticus and ran with it.


Then maybe they were cool with the gays!


For the most part, yes. It was so commonplace in the ancient world that Jesus never even talked about it; never mentioned it as a sin, something to be avoided or anything. Leviticus was written by Paul, after Jesus' death and even then he's arguably talking about sex with temple prostitutes (using a greek word that he made-up himself).


Sorry, off-topic.


Paul wrote one of the Five Books of Moses?

Off topic, but if I were a gay man who had trouble with my pick-up game yet really, really wanted to get nailed, hard, whenever I went to the club, then that is the tattoo I would get to make it happen.



yeah goes to show that agnosto..doesn't know what he's talking about.

GG
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus





Dont think the laws changing invalidates an oath, or else all elected officials would be restating their oaths constantly

3000
4000 
   
Made in us
Drakhun





 generalgrog wrote:
 kronk wrote:
 generalgrog wrote:
Again...circumstances have changed since she made that oath. If you can't grasp that, I can't help you.

GG


You pledge an oath to uphold the law of the land.

If you can't understand that, we can't help you.

KK III



For the third time...the law of the land changed to something beyond her conscience.Therefore the circumstances of her oath changed. I.e what she pledged her oath to changed.

Gg


But having to alter your oath every time the law changes would be a massive waste of red tape.

Be like the motherland, drop oaths altogether.

DS:90-S+G+++M++B-IPw40k03+D+A++/fWD-R++T(T)DM+
Warmachine MKIII record 39W/0D/6L
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Runnin up on ya.

 generalgrog wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 agnosto wrote:
 kronk wrote:
 agnosto wrote:

Off-topic-Ancient Hebrew is a bear to translate and get meaning out of, the King James version of the bible took one potential translation of Leviticus and ran with it.


Then maybe they were cool with the gays!


For the most part, yes. It was so commonplace in the ancient world that Jesus never even talked about it; never mentioned it as a sin, something to be avoided or anything. Leviticus was written by Paul, after Jesus' death and even then he's arguably talking about sex with temple prostitutes (using a greek word that he made-up himself).


Sorry, off-topic.


Paul wrote one of the Five Books of Moses?

Off topic, but if I were a gay man who had trouble with my pick-up game yet really, really wanted to get nailed, hard, whenever I went to the club, then that is the tattoo I would get to make it happen.



yeah goes to show that agnosto..doesn't know what he's talking about.

GG


Slow your roll, hombre, I admitted to getting two books of the bible confused in my head (point still relevant just reference was off) later on the same page. Have no idea why you're so hostile but maybe a keyboard break might help? I got bent out of shape in another thread a week or so ago so I know it happens.

On topic.

When someone takes an oath of office, they need not retake the oath every time a law or court interpretation changes the application of the law. If that were the case, police, judges, court officials and congress persons would forever be retaking oaths, laws and court decisions which affect the application of law occur very frequently.

Edit:
Ninja'd, several times.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/15 20:29:31


Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

 generalgrog wrote:
Again...circumstances have changed since she made that oath. If you can't grasp that, I can't help you.

GG


According to your logic whenever any change is made in any aspect of the law, all the police officers and armed forces personnel in the USA, and all the air traffic controllers, border agency etc, have the right not to carry out whatever change in the law has just been made.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

Does that mean I can't wipe poop of someone's read end until I take my oath again?

I will notify my supervisor right away!
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

Rambling about disco and dogs is about as off topic as you can get in this thread. Don't. I've deleted the posts in question.

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in us
Thane of Dol Guldur




Is George Wallace Kim Davis still blowing the horn?
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 generalgrog wrote:
For the third time...the law of the land changed to something beyond her conscience.

Laws change. That doesn't change the content of her oath.


Jobs change. I don't get to stop doing my job because some aspect of it changed to something I don't like.


If some aspect of her job has changed, due to a change in the law, into something that she feels she can not do, then that job is no longer a suitable job for her to hold onto.


I mean, I'm all for the idea that I can just start telling all and sundry that my conscience won't let me do my job, while I carry on collecting a paycheck. That would be awesome.

But it woudl also be completely and utterly ridiculous. The day I'm no longer comfortable doing my job is the day I go and find another job.

 
   
Made in us
Thane of Dol Guldur




Screw this bigot and her hurt religious conscience. I have searched every avenue i9n my heart to find sympathy, but there is none left.

She's a bigot standing up for her right to be a bigot. Religious convictions are secondary here to duty and basic human respect. In modern society, religious convictions should not trump duty and basic human decency for anyone who makes their living off the public dole when they are "in uniform".


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/16 03:53:21


 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 generalgrog wrote:
Again...circumstances have changed since she made that oath. If you can't grasp that, I can't help you.

GG


You don't understand how oaths work. It isn't a pledge to uphold the laws as long as you still like those laws. If that's all it was then it wouldn't need an oath.

I mean, just read what you wrote - "circumstances have changed since she made that oath". It sounds like part of a movie speech when the weasel character announces he's betraying the good guys.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Colonel





This Is Where the Fish Lives

 sebster wrote:
 generalgrog wrote:
Again...circumstances have changed since she made that oath. If you can't grasp that, I can't help you.

GG


You don't understand how oaths work. It isn't a pledge to uphold the laws as long as you still like those laws. If that's all it was then it wouldn't need an oath.

I mean, just read what you wrote - "circumstances have changed since she made that oath". It sounds like part of a movie speech when the weasel character announces he's betraying the good guys.
This deal is getting worse all the time...



But you know what, Lando had no love for the Empire yet he still did his job.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/16 08:14:31


 d-usa wrote:
"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
 
   
Made in se
Ferocious Black Templar Castellan






Sweden

And then joined an armed uprising against the Empire. Not sure that's the way we'd want this to turn out, eh?

For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus





So latest news is she's still getting her 80k a year to do nothing? Your tax dollars at work folks

3000
4000 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
So latest news is she's still getting her 80k a year to do nothing? Your tax dollars at work folks


Not mine, she is a county official and I don't even live in her state. It is great campaign ad material for whomever decides to run agsinst her in the next election.

Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter




Seattle

More importantly? She makes $80K a year, her office staff are mostly her own relatives, and the median income in her county is less than $40K a year.

While $80k isn't a huge amount of money somewhere like NYC, LA or Seattle, it is apparently *mighty* fine living where she's at.

It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

 Psienesis wrote:
More importantly? She makes $80K a year, her office staff are mostly her own relatives, and the median income in her county is less than $40K a year.

While $80k isn't a huge amount of money somewhere like NYC, LA or Seattle, it is apparently *mighty* fine living where she's at.


No gak. Her county should be embarrassed they pay their officials that much and the voters should be pissed.

Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. 
   
Made in gb
Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God






Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways

 CptJake wrote:
 Psienesis wrote:
More importantly? She makes $80K a year, her office staff are mostly her own relatives, and the median income in her county is less than $40K a year.

While $80k isn't a huge amount of money somewhere like NYC, LA or Seattle, it is apparently *mighty* fine living where she's at.


No gak. Her county should be embarrassed they pay their officials that much and the voters should be pissed.


I wouldn't really like to work in a mindless, dead end job like hers... I guess that is why I am rewarded for 9 years of training and education with an enjoyable, worthwhile and challenging job that pays OK (but nowhere near 80K) I guess

I wish I had her bootstraps!

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 generalgrog wrote:

For the third time...the law of the land changed to something beyond her conscience.Therefore the circumstances of her oath changed. I.e what she pledged her oath to changed.

Gg

I'm a Federal employee. I can tell you, straight out, that the "circumstances of her oath" flat out did not change. Even if they did (they didn't), that doesn't matter. Soldiers don't get to leave just because we enter a new war, public defenders don't get to walk out because they don't like their new client, government employees don't get to ignore their duties because the administration changed. It's bull and you know it.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

public defenders don't get to walk out because they don't like their new client,


Actually they can. But otherwise your point is correct.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 Frazzled wrote:
public defenders don't get to walk out because they don't like their new client,


Actually they can. But otherwise your point is correct.


Can they? Wow, I thought that wasn't allowed because otherwise you could end up with some criminals which nobody will represent which breaks the whole fair trial thing.

The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Frazzled wrote:
public defenders don't get to walk out because they don't like their new client,


Actually they can. But otherwise your point is correct.

wow. I stand corrected on that one.

Presumably they are replaced by another public defender? I mean, what if every defender refuses to represent someone? They're entitled to representation, after all. OT I know.
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Most states have ethical laws that allow an attorney to refuse to represent an individual that they find repugnant. People in the PD's office are going to have pretty specific, if any, lists of things they find deal breakers in a client, but I know in Ohio you really can't force an attorney to take a client.

   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
public defenders don't get to walk out because they don't like their new client,


Actually they can. But otherwise your point is correct.


Can they? Wow, I thought that wasn't allowed because otherwise you could end up with some criminals which nobody will represent which breaks the whole fair trial thing.

NO you can refuse to represent someone, else that would be what is called forced servitude.

Now if you are a public defender your services may no longer be needed, but thats up to the department I guess (don't know much about public defenders)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Polonius wrote:
Most states have ethical laws that allow an attorney to refuse to represent an individual that they find repugnant. People in the PD's office are going to have pretty specific, if any, lists of things they find deal breakers in a client, but I know in Ohio you really can't force an attorney to take a client.


Exactly.

Further, the attorney could always quit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/17 18:00:49


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

 Frazzled wrote:
public defenders don't get to walk out because they don't like their new client,


Actually they can. But otherwise your point is correct.


Yeah but this woman didn't walk out, she just stuck to her well-remunerated job and refused to do it.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Kilkrazy wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
public defenders don't get to walk out because they don't like their new client,


Actually they can. But otherwise your point is correct.


Yeah but this woman didn't walk out, she just stuck to her well-remunerated job and refused to do it.

Agreed, and therein is the problem.

So, any update? Are they issuing licenses now?
Kentucky should turn around and just abolish the whole thing, but thats bank, and those licenses gotta earn...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/17 20:55:35


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

Interesting twist?

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/b5527e5b41974f1dabb9bd638f36e695/attorney-kentucky-clerk-interfered-judges-order
   
 
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