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2015/08/14 20:31:00
Subject: [topic-neutral title about policeman who was attacked]
Let's try to avoid flame-baiting in the title, please. --Janthkin
I guess we're starting to see the consequences of all this media scrutiny of the police. In some cases you say rightfully that such scrutiny is deserved. Still, in other cases it leads to bad consequences. The question is, are these consequences truly unintended?
Nick Valencia wrote:Pistol-whipped detective says he didn't shoot attacker because of headlines
(CNN) A Birmingham, Alabama, police detective who was pistol-whipped unconscious said Friday that he hesitated to use force because he didn't want to be accused of needlessly killing an unarmed man.
"A lot of officers are being too cautious because of what's going on in the media," said the officer, who asked to remain anonymous for the safety of his family. "I hesitated because I didn't want to be in the media like I am right now."
Details of last week's incident in the Birmingham enclave of Roebuck remain sketchy -- such as how did the suspect get the officer's weapon -- but the six-year police veteran said he didn't shoot the man who attacked him during a traffic stop because of the outcry surrounding a spate of police shootings nationally.
"We don't want to be in the media," he said. "It's hard times right now for us."
Heath Boackle, a sergeant with the Birmingham Police Department and president of the city's Fraternal Order of Police, said Thursday that cops are "walking on eggshells because of how they're scrutinized in the media."
"We should be thanking the good Lord because he could be dead right now.," Boackle said of the detective who was beaten.
Police Chief A.C. Roper sees the episode -- as well as the reaction, including celebratory and vitriolic comments posted online alongside images of the wounded officer -- as symptomatic of a larger problem, in which some don't respect law enforcement.
"The nobility and integrity of policing has been challenged," Roper said. "As a profession, we have allowed popular culture to draft a narrative which is contrary to the amazing work that so many officers are doing everyday across this nation."
Detective struck with his own weapon
The incident occurred last Friday when the detective was on his way to interview a robbery witness and saw a car that was carrying at least two people traveling erratically on the interstate, according to police.
"He calls for backup and tells the man to stay in the car, but he didn't," Boackle told CNN in a phone interview. "The last thing the officer remembers is getting sucker-punched in a parking lot. The next thing, he's waking up in a hospital bed with staples in his head."
According to Boackle, the detective spoke to Janard Cunningham, who was sitting the car. The detective decided to call for backup so that he could continue his robbery investigation while another officer handled the traffic stop.
While he was calling for backup, Cunningham allegedly exited the car and became aggressive, approaching the detective and repeatedly questioned why he'd been pulled over, the union chief said. The detective considered using force but thought better of it and continued his call when Cunningham hit him, Boackle said.
Cunningham is accused of then "pistol whipping" the officer with his own service weapon, Boackle said.
The officer suffered multiple lacerations to his head and face but is expected to recover from his injuries, according to Boackle. The University of Alabama-Birmingham treated and released him the same day. He's recovering at home and has not yet returned to duty, Boackle said.
Chief calls reaction 'absolutely inhumane'
Adding insult to injury: several bystanders, instead of helping, took pictures of the bloodied officer as he was facedown on the concrete and posted the images on social media, where the officer was mocked.
Many people rose to the officer's defense, but the detective's colleagues were outraged by a collection of posts that seemed to revel in the beating.
"Pistol whipped his ass to sleep," one user wrote, employing the hashtag #FckDaPolice. Another mockingly offered the officer milk and cookies for his "nap time."
Roper, the Birmingham police chief, called the fact bystanders would take pictures of an officer being beaten rather than help him, then proceed to post them, "absolutely inhumane." The online commenters only made it worse.
"It really speaks to the lack of their morality and humanity," the chief said. "People commented on the pictures in a celebratory fashion ... disregarding that this public servant has a family and is committed to serve in some of our most challenging communities."
Police support officer, who is 'doing much better'
Some Birmingham officers feel that "if the roles were reversed, there would be demonstrations" and an "outcry from the public," Boackle said.
"The officer was beaten and just left there. People were there long enough to take pictures of the officer full of blood and put it on social media. ... No one stopped to help," he said. "We're lucky we're not talking about an officer who was shot and killed with his own weapon."
CNN affiliate WBRC tweeted a photo depicting the bleeding officer.
According to the city's police chief, the officer is "doing much better than he was on the day of the attack." Roper said his department stands firmly behind a man who he called a "good officer through these years."
"I gave him a direct order," Roper said. "Your mission is to get better and to spend time with your family. He gladly accepted."
Suspect charged with attempted murder
Cunningham allegedly fled the scene but was apprehended later Friday, police said. He is charged with attempted murder and is being held without bond. A second man taken into custody with Cunningham has not been charged with a crime, police said.
Tracking dogs were brought in to help search for another possible suspect, but authorities later said they believed there was no third person.
Cunningham, 34, of Center Point appeared in court Tuesday where his first hearing was postponed, CNN affiliate WBRC reported. His mother told Jefferson County District Court Judge Shelly Watkins that the family would be hiring a lawyer, according to the Alabama Media Group, a collection of news outlets that includes The Birmingham News.
Paperwork on file in Watkins' office had no lawyer listed for Cunningham. His mother hung up on a CNN reporter seeking comment, and a subsequent voice message left for her was not immediately returned.
"I feel that in today's society, both from law enforcement and the citizens, we have to trust in one another and do the best we can for this world as a whole," Boackle said.
Said the officer who was beaten: "I appreciate everyone's support. I have a concussion and I'm still heavily medicated. Right now, I need to focus on healing and getting better."
CNN's Eliott McLaughlin and Greg Botelho contributed to this report.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/14 22:57:38
Saw this to on the news. I'm not a typical bystander. I would have knee capped the Asshat if he did not put down the weapon on the first warning.
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Why don't police lives matter? Because a few asshats took photos of this guy and posted stupid comments on the internet? Seems like you are making a leap here.
So... only because of the intense media coverage of police usage of force did the cop stop to think, "Maybe I shouldn't shoot and kill this unarmed person?"
Obviously this is a bad situation, although the article seems to indicate that the cop should completely recover (he was treated and released). I mean, call me names, but I'm not sure having a cop get beat up is worse than somebody dying. I can't imagine life is going to be pleasant for the guy that did this, so justice will be served.
And that's kind of the point of the movement: for all the talk of "walking on eggshells," the suspect here will almost certainly be tried, convicted, and spend substantial time in prison. When cops shoot people, there is very little chance of criminal proceedings.
I like that the "cop feels like he has to walk on eggshells because cops are being watched" thread is so close to the "cops strip and forcefully cavity search woman in public parking lot" thread.
Polonius wrote: So... only because of the intense media coverage of police usage of force did the cop stop to think, "Maybe I shouldn't shoot and kill this unarmed person?"
Holy strawman argument, Batman!
Try this; only because of the intense media coverage of police usage of force did the cop stop to think, instead of reacting to a dangerous situation as his training and instinct dictated, and wound up losing his gun and getting beat with it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/14 21:04:58
Polonius wrote: So... only because of the intense media coverage of police usage of force did the cop stop to think, "Maybe I shouldn't shoot and kill this unarmed person?"
Holy strawman argument, Batman!
Try this; only because of the intense media coverage of police usage of force did the cop stop to think, instead of reacting to a dangerous situation as his training and instinct dictated, and wound up losing his gun and getting beat with it.
Maybe. Keep in mind where nearly all of the information in this case is coming from: the police union.
Luckily, he's not dead, or even seriously hurt. Maybe some training on options between "shoot a guy" and "get beat" is necessary?
Polonius wrote: So... only because of the intense media coverage of police usage of force did the cop stop to think, "Maybe I shouldn't shoot and kill this unarmed person?"
Obviously this is a bad situation, although the article seems to indicate that the cop should completely recover (he was treated and released). I mean, call me names, but I'm not sure having a cop get beat up is worse than somebody dying. I can't imagine life is going to be pleasant for the guy that did this, so justice will be served.
And that's kind of the point of the movement: for all the talk of "walking on eggshells," the suspect here will almost certainly be tried, convicted, and spend substantial time in prison. When cops shoot people, there is very little chance of criminal proceedings.
Probably because if a cop shoots a guy, you have very good reason that he needing shootin.
Polonius wrote: So... only because of the intense media coverage of police usage of force did the cop stop to think, "Maybe I shouldn't shoot and kill this unarmed person?"
Obviously this is a bad situation, although the article seems to indicate that the cop should completely recover (he was treated and released). I mean, call me names, but I'm not sure having a cop get beat up is worse than somebody dying. I can't imagine life is going to be pleasant for the guy that did this, so justice will be served.
And that's kind of the point of the movement: for all the talk of "walking on eggshells," the suspect here will almost certainly be tried, convicted, and spend substantial time in prison. When cops shoot people, there is very little chance of criminal proceedings.
Probably because if a cop shoots a guy, you have very good reason that he needing shootin.
The word "probably" in your comment indicates that there should probably be at least a brief inquiry, right? We're not so inurned to violence that we consider police killing citizens as unworthy of investigation?
Polonius wrote: So... only because of the intense media coverage of police usage of force did the cop stop to think, "Maybe I shouldn't shoot and kill this unarmed person?"
Holy strawman argument, Batman!
Try this; only because of the intense media coverage of police usage of force did the cop stop to think, instead of reacting to a dangerous situation as his training and instinct dictated, and wound up losing his gun and getting beat with it.
Maybe. Keep in mind where nearly all of the information in this case is coming from: the police union.
Luckily, he's not dead, or even seriously hurt. Maybe some training on options between "shoot a guy" and "get beat" is necessary?
I don't know, but I think if you look across the pond, you'll find plenty of cops without guns that handle business.
Obviously there are times when a police officer needs to use lethal force. Preventing his own incapacitation is one of those times. For decades, cops have been trained to shoot when anybody goes for their gun, because having an armed suspect, and a wounded or dead cop is bad.
So, given what we know, I'm inclined to believe that for whatever reason, the cop hesitated, and lost control of the situation. that happens, they're humans, and luckily there wasn't a worse outcome than some stiches. The union, being a union, is going to spin this as "he was so scared of the big mean media he didn't shoot the guy," even if that wasn't true. Of course, why does anybody hesitate for a split second? It'll be true enough if the cop wants it to be true, because that's how memory works.
Of course, this would be a very different situation from other famous police shootings. If he had shot the suspect, it would have been in the chest, the guy would have been out of his car, he's an adult (not a child), he was at large (not in custody), and not powerless.
Haha yeah right. Obviously this guy got his buddy to beat him up, faked that an african american did it just to save some face for officers all over the states. Betcha he's sitting on a nice big compensation payment for his trouble.
Just kidding.
This whole issue about blacks vs. The police is getting a bit crazy. The media seems to be exacerbating the problems tenfold. I don't blame the guy for thinking twice, but surely he could have tazed him? Mace? Nightstick? Hell even shoot the guy in the arm or leg or something. Nobody loses their mind on media over neutralizing shots, it's when the officer blatantly killed a man that was A) not dangerous or B) easily handled in a different fashion. In reality, this man should definitely not have shot to kill, but still should have defended himself. The fact that all this animosity exists is saddening. In my opinion, it's more to do with wealth inequality than anything else, which is rampant in the states. Take from the rich, give to the poor and stability will be regained as the lower class has little to no incentive towards crime. I think race plays a side role and that this is a larger problem, the media just wants to get inflammatory responses from people by playing the race card hard and focusing on it. That pays the bills if youre a news corporation, and distracts the public from the fact that only 1% of the states runs the whole bloody show.
I wish everyone could feel safe and work together towards a better humankind. We could do so much more than we are now. I want to see my species adventure into space, dammit!
Disgraceful that people just stood by and watched this guy get the crap beaten out of him. Clearly there's no good samaritans in that area...
It also makes me really kinda angry that people vilify cops who were just doing their job and had to make a life or death decision. I appreciate that not all cops who shoot a suspect are doing the right thing. But they're damned if they do, damned if they don't, generally speaking.
In my opinion, un armed does not mean not dangerous. Its just less lethal. Considering the restraint that police officers have, as evidence by this video, and what they go through every day where they put their lives and bodies on the line, when they do make the choice of pulling a gun I have to support them. Yes some times police officers and gun owners (since I have a feeling that civilian gun ownership is going to be coming up some time in this topic) do make mistakes, yes there are arse-wipes who carry a badge, then there are the vast majority of actual responsible officers and gun owners who are protecting themselves and others with a tool that is dangerous. Dangerous not at one end but at both ends of the barrel, because as soon as some one pulls that trigger and makes a kill, their life is going to be one of scrutiny in this society.
AncientSkarbrand wrote: Hell even shoot the guy in the arm or leg or something. Nobody loses their mind on media over neutralizing shots, it's when the officer blatantly killed a man that was A) not dangerous or B) easily handled in a different fashion.
Real police work isn't an action movie. There are no "neutralizing shots." Most cops never shoot their guns in anger, so they rely on their basic training, which is to shoot for the center of mass.
There's really no other way to handle it. If you shoot, you shoot to kill.
AncientSkarbrand wrote: Hell even shoot the guy in the arm or leg or something. Nobody loses their mind on media over neutralizing shots, it's when the officer blatantly killed a man that was A) not dangerous or B) easily handled in a different fashion.
Real police work isn't an action movie. There are no "neutralizing shots." Most cops never shoot their guns in anger, so they rely on their basic training, which is to shoot for the center of mass.
There's really no other way to handle it. If you shoot, you shoot to kill.
Indeed. I took my CPL training from a retired Detroit cop. He made it plain that a handgun is only drawn as a last resort, and if it is drawn, you have made the conscious decision to take a life. Otherwise it stays in the holster.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Well they are cops, who are just those who couldnt get into college and have power complexes, who they deserve to die right? RIGHT?
Actually im pretty sure cops need to have some sort of degree to get hired.
At least in CAIIRc.
i could be wrong.
As to the media. i see why the cops feel the need to walk on egg shells. in the right or wrong shooting some one armed not armed with 4 arms. it really doesn't matter. there will be people out making a fething ruckus causing more issues and ultimately ending the officers carrier weather or not they deserve it.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Well they are cops, who are just those who couldnt get into college and have power complexes, who they deserve to die right? RIGHT?
Actually im pretty sure cops need to have some sort of degree to get hired.
At least in CAIIRc.
i could be wrong.
As to the media. i see why the cops feel the need to walk on egg shells. in the right or wrong shooting some one armed not armed with 4 arms. it really doesn't matter. there will be people out making a fething ruckus causing more issues and ultimately ending the officers carrier weather or not they deserve it.
That is what I hear, that cops are just the bullies of highschool who just wanted to continue bullying.
Okay, i concede the neutralizing shot thing. Probably far too difficult in the heat of the moment. Honestly its probably video games more than hollywood that made me think that was valid.
But why not taze him or pull out the mace?
Just to be clear, i think it's awful this man went through this. No one should have to feel afraid to defend themselves.
In canada, it's a few months of training and a physical test to be an RCMP officer, and i think more to be a city policeman. Their physical test is much harder also I believe.
That is what I hear, that cops are just the bullies of highschool who just wanted to continue bullying.
No i mean they HAVE to have at least a collage degree to be a cop.
edit@ Ancient: Tazers are not perfect and mace is unpredictable edit:err both are unpredictable and doesn't always stop the bad guys compared to just dead. BUT i think it should be an option for most police in specific areas where it is reasonable.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/14 22:25:24
Polonius wrote: So... only because of the intense media coverage of police usage of force did the cop stop to think, "Maybe I shouldn't shoot and kill this unarmed person?"
Obviously this is a bad situation, although the article seems to indicate that the cop should completely recover (he was treated and released). I mean, call me names, but I'm not sure having a cop get beat up is worse than somebody dying. I can't imagine life is going to be pleasant for the guy that did this, so justice will be served.
And that's kind of the point of the movement: for all the talk of "walking on eggshells," the suspect here will almost certainly be tried, convicted, and spend substantial time in prison. When cops shoot people, there is very little chance of criminal proceedings.
Probably because if a cop shoots a guy, you have very good reason that he needing shootin.
Or the target was an unarmed 12 year old boy. Or an unarmed 14 year old boy who took 7 to the back.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
Polonius wrote: So... only because of the intense media coverage of police usage of force did the cop stop to think, "Maybe I shouldn't shoot and kill this unarmed person?"
Obviously this is a bad situation, although the article seems to indicate that the cop should completely recover (he was treated and released). I mean, call me names, but I'm not sure having a cop get beat up is worse than somebody dying. I can't imagine life is going to be pleasant for the guy that did this, so justice will be served.
And that's kind of the point of the movement: for all the talk of "walking on eggshells," the suspect here will almost certainly be tried, convicted, and spend substantial time in prison. When cops shoot people, there is very little chance of criminal proceedings.
Probably because if a cop shoots a guy, you have very good reason that he needing shootin.
Or the target was an unarmed 12 year old boy. Or an unarmed 14 year old boy who took 7 to the back.
the 12 year old one that had a replica toy gun with no orange safety tip?
dont recall the 14 year old one.
Did new info come to light on those?
Seriously cant use hindsight to demonize people since there is no way to have known.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/14 22:27:38
Polonius wrote: So... only because of the intense media coverage of police usage of force did the cop stop to think, "Maybe I shouldn't shoot and kill this unarmed person?"
Obviously this is a bad situation, although the article seems to indicate that the cop should completely recover (he was treated and released). I mean, call me names, but I'm not sure having a cop get beat up is worse than somebody dying. I can't imagine life is going to be pleasant for the guy that did this, so justice will be served.
And that's kind of the point of the movement: for all the talk of "walking on eggshells," the suspect here will almost certainly be tried, convicted, and spend substantial time in prison. When cops shoot people, there is very little chance of criminal proceedings.
These are pretty much my thoughts exactly.
And if media frenzy was enough to overcome this cop's fear of of the suspect and a need to defend himself, that speaks more to me that the need to employ lethal force was perhaps questionable in the first place.
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As to the media. i see why the cops feel the need to walk on egg shells. in the right or wrong shooting some one armed not armed with 4 arms. it really doesn't matter. there will be people out making a fething ruckus causing more issues and ultimately ending the officers carrier weather or not they deserve it.
I'm a manager in the Federal Government. Every interaction I have with an employee has to be careful, because anything I say or do could lead to accusations of discrimination by that employee, or another. In many ways, I spend time "walking on eggshells." And you know what? Nowhere in my job description is the phrase "Expected to use lethal force when necessary."
Call me an idealist, but I think that we want people tasked with the decision of when to shoot and likely kill people in an altercation to be mindful, to be worried about the consequences. Because, and again, call me an idealist or a liberal or what have you, I think that killing people is an absolute last resort. That preventing deaths, not causing them, is the job of police. That, when the chips are down, being a first responder means putting yourself more at risk to protect people. And that even people that by policy could be killed don't always need to be. And that its a reasonably good thing.
Not even seriously hurt? I wouldn't call 17 staples in the head a minor injury. That's pretty severe, pistol whippings have killed people from the blunt force trauma of the metal cracking the skull and/or swelling of the brain which can occur later.
The officer is very lucky to be alive and I'm glad they charged that assailant with attempted murder.
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