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I find GT a boatload of fun to play, and most everyone in my group enjoys facing it. People like to try to incinerate as many greenskins as they can in one go, while I enjoy watching them struggle to succeed. It's definitely not a play style for everyone, but it don't have much issue moving 100+ models. It isn't that hard. Just have to be swift.

As for KFF, I'm really tired of the complaining about it. With how often cover gets ignored in the game today, the change to Invul is a billion times more useful. And having the bubble extend to an entire unit just because one guy's big toe was touching it was completely stupid. We all get annoyed by the monstrous creatures getting a ruin save because his toe is touching it...the same applies here. It's not less stupid because it's Orks. And it isn't orky to have such a confounding rule with no fluffyiness to back up such shinanigans.

Granted, the KFF isn't the best for the green tide due to the sheer size of it. But I've run a couple KFF Meks in it, positioning them as needed to protect them from whatever angle my opponent was trying to get on me. Other times I've had a Morkanaught wade in the front/center of the tide to cast its field or distract gunfire to it as opposed to the Boyz.

I don't feel our Dex is nearly as weak as everyone complains about. Yes, we aren't Necron/Eldar level of stupid. But compared to every other dex, we aren't THAT far from the curve. We get it, the other Xenos are more loved. Deal with it. But we are far from a gakky army.

Murrdox wrote:

Thyhadras wrote:
So what do you run that makes your club members run over you so easily? Do you have other models to throw in that could have a different effect... one thing I have noticed since forums for 40k started is that Ork players have been some of the most negative players I have encountered when it comes to their army. Further, I find it hard to imagine how Mad Doc and shoota boys seems to be forgotten about in exchange for the likes of burna's and loota's (the loota's are good). I know that it sucks to have so much stuff in your army that is useless... but every codex has useless models... just the ork ones seem like they should be so cool, but then in game they are terrible (kans, defs, battle wagon, looted wagon... etc.)

Actually I think you're wrong and it'd be sad if you know that many Ork players who are negative. I think most Ork players LOVE being Ork players! I know I certainly do. I can bitch and moan with the best of them about wanting to be able to actually WIN GAMES, but I LOVE my army, and I love it so much that I'll put them on the table knowing that I'll probably lose, because they're FUN to play with. Not gonna lie though, it'd be fun for me to put my Ork army on the table and have my opponent actually be intimidated by it. That hasn't happened since 5th Edition.

The crux of the issue is that Orks have more weaker units in our codex than most armies, and the best units in our codex are still not as good as what most other codexes get for the same amount of points or cheaper. We have lots of weaknesses that are easily exploited, and we don't have many strengths that other armies don't have an easy time surpassing.

In the current game setup, Orks are all Paper, and most armies are sporting Scissors. There aren't many Rocks out there for us that we really shine against.

I'm honestly glad I don't have it worse than I do. I don't play against any Imperial Knight armies. I think I'd rather just not even put my models down against that.

I agree that Ork players are very passionate about the game and despite our love to point out the short comings of the Ork codex (Mork knows GW doesn't give a squig plop about Ork codex viability), we love the boyz in green and are some of the most excited and involved players in the 40K player base.

I do disagree with your assessment of the Ork codex in that we actually have a lot of "Rock" like matchups in that Orks generally operate outside the standard power unit meta. Every AP 3 and AP2 gun that other armies pay a premium for is basically wasted on the Orks with our focus on body count over armor. Orks care little for snap shooting as we already hit on 5+ so our jinking bikers, shooting at invisible stuff, or hitting flyers is hardly a problem. Orks also tend to spam one unit type to generate target saturation and are not dependent on any one individual unit to get the job done. In tournaments and TAC formats where you can't list tailor, this means trying to counter Ork tactics will cripple you against the main meta picks so Orks don't have to fight anti-ork lists very often. If you play against a tailored list then its going to be rough because Orks are a very papery paper so if they break out the flaming scissors then we are just done. Orks are playing on hard mode but we are sorta playing a different game than the rest of the field which many lists and players have a hard time adapting to.

So, getting roughly back on topic and away from the people saying "ork players are negative and complain to much"

What do you guys think will be the changes to the ork codex with the power creep?

Look in case you haven't figured it out yet, Orks, Chaos Space Marines and Tyranids are designed to be the whipping boys for GWs more profitable lines. They are designed to be the antagonist, yet the loser.

Like others have mentioned, if I take the cynical POV and GW (likely) changes the design paradigm, we'll be one of the factions where GW likely swings back on the pendulum of power and we'll stay in our position with a few changes and tweaks. Chances are that GW will try pushing web-exclusive formations as the primary means of making the Ork army work like the Skyhammer Formation. If formations are still in some fashion then warbuggies will probably be the mandatory "tax" like vypers for eldar and tomb blades for Necrons. Hopefully by then we get a new model but I have a bad feeling we might not.

to level orks up with some of the creep lists, we need a invul saves back, and a formation that gives guys a "gets back up" roll.

Thats about all I want. lol

Just want to point out that yes BattleWagons are expensive, and Trukks are fragile but there is a mid-range alternative.

For 60 points you can have an AV13 front armour, AV12 side, 10 man troop transport with twin-linked shooting, that can also come as a squadron allowing you to take more than one and still have 2 more heavy slots.

The Gun Wagon.

It's a great alternative to the standard codex transport options and I use mine every game. I run 2, and fill them with tankbustas and go hunting after Knights, Landraiders and other tabletop nuisances.

Admittedly, the rules are a bit out of date in IA8, but they are still valid, and an excellent delivery system for just about any unit.
My next game will have a MA Warboss with DLS, MANZ and Painboy in one, flanked with 2 more units of boyz/ Tankbustas/ whatever I decide (maybe even FlashGitz) and sitting in the middle of that formation, out of sight, will be a Big Mek on a bike with no other upgrade except for a KFF giving a lovely 5++ on the whole lot.

Nice.

Power creep for orks....hmmm

From my pov i dont think all that much power will enter s new ork codex. They have a role to play of the goofy fun guys.

Maybe they will be able to swarm the board aith moar boyzzz in a new codex with some formations utilising huge numbers of orks at low cost

You mean, exactly like they have now?

If you want my honest opinion, power creep isn't going to come our way. If for some reason it does, I'll eat three of my Ork Boyz. We'd need someone writing our book to truely love the race and do it proper justice without going over the top.

I'll be honest. I do [u]NOT[/i] our army to be the one people groan at when we pull our models out. If we ever, EVER get to the level of Necron or Eldar stupid, I will not play my army. Because that isn't what I wanted when I bought Orks.

I knew going in Orks were pretty below the curve. But I love our army for what it is. It can be competitive, but it doesn't force me to be. Not every list I make is going to steam roll my opponent and make them groan in frustration, even when I make a sub optimal list. My book allows me to make quite a few different kinds of lists, all of which are fun to play. My army is one virtually EVERYONE loves to play against simply BECAUSE it's not an over powered gak fest, and no two games with Orks ever really feels the same.

We can't even begin to guess what GW will do to the Orks when/if the next book cycle comes around. We can only wish list.

My wish list of changes:

1. More gear - For a faction that's known to be sticky fingered, I feel we have a surprising lack of upgrade options for not just our infantry, but for our vehicles too. Or, perhaps a lack of useful or meaningful upgrades. Specifically, I'd love to see more options for the Lootas. I know Deffguns are bread and butter, but if their name is going to be LOOTAS, they should be able to depict they loot...by having various gear to choose from.

2. Roll back old upgrades - As in, return the gear options to their previous effects. The Deffrolla maybe still needs a few tiny tweaks, but it's pretty ineffective and a more expensive Ram now. Give Cybork Body back the 5+ Invul, even if you only make it for characters. Hell, even let MANZ take it at the very least to make them a little more hardy. Red Paint Job wasn't even broken, I have no idea why they decided to nerf it. I actually like the change to boarding plank, so maybe keep that the way it is.

3. Mob Rule - While this has a lot of controversy, I still believe the current Mob Rule is a step in the right direction, but still not where it needs to be. There's no denying that Fearless was way too abundant, and Orks were kinda abusing it after the Fearless Wounds were removed. The current Mob Rule isn't nearly as good, but the fact that it has the ability to potentially save our Elite units when the prior rule could not DOES make it better and helps make a previously useless rule more useable (Fear). I'll be honest, I am no game designer, so I wouldn't even begin to know WHERE to start with this. But if they could tweak the rule just enough, we might be in a better place without a massive revamp of our codex.

4. Points Tweaks - This alone might be the biggest thing to help us out over everything. A few specific units are just a bit too expensive for what they do, and make it harder for us to spam them in an Orky fashion while some are just a bit too cheap. Kanz, Flash Gitz, Battle Wagons, Naughts...these are a few of the over priced units. In a very shooty rich environment, these units often can't hold out as long as we NEED them too. And their points costs need to reflect that as well. Units like the Mek Gunz in particular could do with a small points hike. I feel those things are a bit too cheap for how good they are.

5. Formations - While Formations have been a hit and miss situation over this book cycle, it's clear that Formations are what is really pushing the top tier books over the edge. I think that Necron and Eldar wouldn't be nearly as hated if their Formations weren't so damn GOOD. If Orks could get a few Formations of equal strength tossed our way (And for EVERY OTHER faction as well, it's not like we are the only struggling army right now) then I think we'd be in a lot better boat. Especially if they went crazy fluffy and made us some very viable clan oriented Formations. Formations alone, without changing anything in the book, would help us substantially. Because as it stands, our book is FAR from bad. It just doesn't have the Formation shenanigans to put us UP THERE with the others.

 r_squared wrote:
Just want to point out that yes BattleWagons are expensive, and Trukks are fragile but there is a mid-range alternative.

For 60 points you can have an AV13 front armour, AV12 side, 10 man troop transport with twin-linked shooting, that can also come as a squadron allowing you to take more than one and still have 2 more heavy slots.

The Gun Wagon.

It's a great alternative to the standard codex transport options and I use mine every game. I run 2, and fill them with tankbustas and go hunting after Knights, Landraiders and other tabletop nuisances.

Admittedly, the rules are a bit out of date in IA8, but they are still valid, and an excellent delivery system for just about any unit.
My next game will have a MA Warboss with DLS, MANZ and Painboy in one, flanked with 2 more units of boyz/ Tankbustas/ whatever I decide (maybe even FlashGitz) and sitting in the middle of that formation, out of sight, will be a Big Mek on a bike with no other upgrade except for a KFF giving a lovely 5++ on the whole lot.

Nice.

Very much agreed. I haven't played with a Gun Wagon myself, but I definitely see the appeal. On the one hand, I feel like it sucks I have to rely on a Forgeworld unit like a crutch. On the other hand, the Gunwagon models are awesome. On the other other hand, ouch my wallet because now I have to order a Mega Dread and why not a Stompa while I'm at it!!

Gun wagons FTW if your group/tournament/friends allow FW or IA books.

we shouldn't have to rely on FW to have a good vehicle though. Maybe if we are really good and we don't put gum in our sisters hair this year GW will give us a useful vehicle in our next codex

have you ever thought that maybe the reason orks are lower tier is because we can make almost any ork vehicle out of non official gw models and toys. maybe gw will give us a codex power creep if every last ork player ever bought official models.
an example is the greentide, it is literally one of our best formations and you have to buy official models just to make it. maybe gw is trying to give us a hint.
they must be trying to punish us for our unofficial models...its a conspiracy!!!

 Ghazkuul wrote:
we shouldn't have to rely on FW to have a good vehicle though. Maybe if we are really good and we don't put gum in our sisters hair this year GW will give us a useful vehicle in our next codex

Isn't that the truth.

Trukks aren't THAT BAD, but they are pretty dang bad. lol

 Ghazkuul wrote:
we shouldn't have to rely on FW to have a good vehicle though. Maybe if we are really good and we don't put gum in our sisters hair this year GW will give us a useful vehicle in our next codex

I agree, but i just view FW as the cool guys looking out for the forgotten armies.

 Grimmor wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
we shouldn't have to rely on FW to have a good vehicle though. Maybe if we are really good and we don't put gum in our sisters hair this year GW will give us a useful vehicle in our next codex

I agree, but i just view FW as the cool guys looking out for the forgotten armies.

I don't rememebr them doing very much for SoB, but I will give you that. Truthfully the best thing to happen would not be for the Ork's to be adjusted for the power creep, but the power creep for the Orks, as in that GW reigns things in a little, but the chances of that are the same of me walking up getting kissed by a Ilama.

 saithor wrote:

 Grimmor wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
we shouldn't have to rely on FW to have a good vehicle though. Maybe if we are really good and we don't put gum in our sisters hair this year GW will give us a useful vehicle in our next codex

I agree, but i just view FW as the cool guys looking out for the forgotten armies.

I don't rememebr them doing very much for SoB, but I will give you that. Truthfully the best thing to happen would not be for the Ork's to be adjusted for the power creep, but the power creep for the Orks, as in that GW reigns things in a little, but the chances of that are the same of me walking up getting kissed by a Ilama.

I agree, everyone here keeps saying "No don't increase power decrease everyone elses" but if we have to wait for that BS then its going to be years before we are all down to relatively the same power level, but of course pre 7th edition OP codex (eldar, Necrons, Marines) the Orks were still solidly bottom tier.

I personally want the power creep to hit the Orks like a sledgehammer, not because I want to be the next Eldar Codex but because thats what it would take to make us as competitive as the newer codexs, and I want the MAJORITY of our units to be playable instead of dust collectors. My Morkanaut hasn't fought a single battle in so long it bothers me. I want to be excited about acquiring Kanz and Dreadz and Burna boyz and other units that right now I don't want to because I know they will just collect dust like my Naut is.

Yeah, I was so excited when I saw the models for those, they could have been the things to finally get me into Orks, and then it turned out they sucked. Because if it's above 3 HP and isn't piloted by robots, or is covered in purification seals and piloted by the imperium, it sucks.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
we shouldn't have to rely on FW to have a good vehicle though. Maybe if we are really good and we don't put gum in our sisters hair this year GW will give us a useful vehicle in our next codex

I was very surprised when the new codex dropped and the Orks didn't get a new tank. We got a new walker instead. For a race that loves their vehicles, GW has a remarkably small amount of Ork vehicles in the catalog.

I honestly wonder if it's Forgeworld's fault. The Forgeworld line of Ork vehicles is incredible. I feel like it's a disincentive to design a new Ork tank, because you have to make it somehow better and different from what Forgeworld already has.

Our best bet for a new vehicle is a re-done Buggy kit, with options for 2 or 3 different vehicles, a Buggy, a Skorcha, and something else, hopefully more creative than simply a Kustom Mega Blasta buggy.

Melevolence wrote:
3. Mob Rule - While this has a lot of controversy, I still believe the current Mob Rule is a step in the right direction, but still not where it needs to be. There's no denying that Fearless was way too abundant, and Orks were kinda abusing it after the Fearless Wounds were removed. The current Mob Rule isn't nearly as good, but the fact that it has the ability to potentially save our Elite units when the prior rule could not DOES make it better and helps make a previously useless rule more useable (Fear). I'll be honest, I am no game designer, so I wouldn't even begin to know WHERE to start with this. But if they could tweak the rule just enough, we might be in a better place without a massive revamp of our codex.

(Disclosure: this is based on theory, imagination, and what I've read on the boards... I started the hobby recently and am still in the process of painting my army, haven't actually played yet!)

I don't mind the current Mob Rule rule, although I can see how people used to Fearless mobs would dislike the change. What I think is a problem is how Mob Rule interacts with the Da Boss Iz Watchin' rule from the Waaagh! Ghazkull book. From the description, it seems as if the rule would make it more likely that the Boyz stay in line (they're more disciplined), but when they DO break, they're hit harder. The second part of the rule ("should any units suffer hits from squabble or breaking heads, they get d3+3 rather than d6 hits") makes sense, and obviously represents the second part of the description (when they DO break, they're hit harder). On the other hand, the +2 to the roll makes no sense. It makes it impossible to get a Born to Fight, and, strictly speaking, can lead to undefined results (e.g. I roll a 5, +2 becomes a 7, but the table doesn't say what happens on a 7). My guess would be they meant a -2 on the roll, and treating any result under 1 as 1. That'd mean more Born to Fight (since they're more disciplined), and less Squabble (again, they're more disciplined), but still same amount of Breaking Heads (which is the leaders (i.e. characters) laying down the law, as per the fluff description of the rule). But that's just a guess, of course.

I would give my left nut (or is it my right nut...) for a Ork tank based on the Epic designs. I always loved the look of those things. I never understood why we never got them or any dedicated Ork battle tank for that mater.

Btothefnrock wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
we shouldn't have to rely on FW to have a good vehicle though. Maybe if we are really good and we don't put gum in our sisters hair this year GW will give us a useful vehicle in our next codex

Isn't that the truth.

Trukks aren't THAT BAD, but they are pretty dang bad. lol

For their cost, they are good. They get you where you need them to go. That is their purpose. They are cheap enough to spam and cheap enough to not care about when they pop. Vehicles in general I feel are pretty terrible this edition (With a few exceptions), and they don't last long no matter what you're spending on them. So the less you spend, the better.

^exactly. It only takes one turn of the thing moving to do its job.... which is drop MANz off at the enemy line... haha

Ghaz, I noticed you say this in another thread:

"As as far as the beast mode CC characters in the Eldar dex, how about the crazy CC one that gives up 1 attack to disarm her opponent, forces them and everyone nearbye to drop 5 Init and WS or whatever hte hell it is. SO now my ork boyz are hitting on 5s and wounding on 4s, and unless i gave my Warboss MA he doesn't get a save against your IC."

Given that's where the game is going, what do you want to see changed in the Ork CC HQ's?

Yoyoyo wrote:
Ghaz, I noticed you say this in another thread:

"As as far as the beast mode CC characters in the Eldar dex, how about the crazy CC one that gives up 1 attack to disarm her opponent, forces them and everyone nearbye to drop 5 Init and WS or whatever hte hell it is. SO now my ork boyz are hitting on 5s and wounding on 4s, and unless i gave my Warboss MA he doesn't get a save against your IC."

Given that's where the game is going, what do you want to see changed in the Ork CC HQ's?

Personally? I wish GW would give up on 7th edition as a flop. Remake EVERY SINGLE CODEX in a single release and play test the hell out of them so that they are all balanced. Then release for 8th edition. Nerf every OP unit in the game so that everything has a use but not ALL uses. That way nobody walks into a game and starts off at a distinct disadvantage.

No IC should be able to give up 1 attack and take away my Fething Power Klaw. The only realistic way to beat that IC is to fight her with an IC that has 2 PKs or Kill saws. and even then your still hitting on 5s and you lose your bonus attack from 2 CCW.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
No IC should be able to give up 1 attack and take away my Fething Power Klaw. The only realistic way to beat that IC is to fight her with an IC that has 2 PKs or Kill saws. and even then your still hitting on 5s and you lose your bonus attack from 2 CCW.

Or just give Ghaz AP2 from a rule like Smash.

He's a 225pt LoW, he shouldn't be too easy to neutralize.

If Ghaz could Waaagh! every turn I would be fine with that. Keep that 2+ invulnerable lol

Would make him an exceptional character then and solve Orks Mob Rule in one go.

Then I could drown Jain in Boyz

 Frozocrone wrote:
If Ghaz could Waaagh! every turn I would be fine with that. Keep that 2+ invulnerable lol

Would make him an exceptional character then and solve Orks Mob Rule in one go.

Then I could drown Jain in Boyz

Ironically he would still lose to Jain because he would be swinging last at lower WS well it might be a tie I don't know. Regardless you can't buff ghaz because then everyone starts saying he is OP....

I dont even play orks but yea, better walkers. I love orky walkers, more fun for my kataphrons!