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That's very interesting. I've never really thought of things that way; I suspect I have yet to reach that level of gameplay.
I typically consider miniature games in terms of how "abstract" they are (I'm not sure that's the right word, but it sounds right to me): larger games are more abstract by necessity (you can't realistically roll every attack separately when you've got 30 Orks making 4 attacks each against 30 Tyranids or whatever). Each attack tends to be one die, and it's only against a single stat (so in 40K you roll against your ballistic skill regardless of how big, small, fast or slow your target is). Meanwhile smaller-scale games like Infinity and Warmachine are less abstract; you are rolling each attack individually, considering both the attacker and the defender's attributes.
I find Batman to be more abstract than it needs to be; you roll two or three attacks at a time, considering a single attribute (either the attacker's stat OR the defender's). And like more abstract games, a lot of stuff is "standard" and then has to be modified by a special rule, rather than just being a stat in the first place (model speed, weapon range, etc). In those ways I think of it as being more like 40K (at least 5th ed, what I consider and old-fashioned rules system), than Infinity or Warmachine (what I consider more modern rules systems).
I like the comparison of strategic versus tactic. Well done.
I also see a similarity between Batman and Warmachine. To me, its about a tabletop game that really has resource management as a major part of the experience.
In Warmachine/Hordes, the allocation and use of Force is critical to each stage of the game. How much are you allocating to your Jacks? How hot are you willing to run your Beasts? How much will your caster need for himself? What is the activation order for your units and models?
Batman is very similar in the allocation of Willpower tockens. How much Attack will you need? Do you need to hold in some for Defense? What is your activation order for your models, given that you will alternate with your opponent? When do you use a Skip? Do you go first or defer?
It is so much more planning rather than moving that it becomes a different kind of game than 40K, Infinity, etc.
Good points Drazz. I guess I'll just have to play some more to actually learn how the game works in action. Sadly there aren't any other players around here, so I'm just going to have to figure it out myself.
That's a 50 point X-Men force finished now, when I add in the X-Men team card. - Game wise, it should do ok. I'm kind of worried about the new "Throwing" rules though, in house games, we're going to be playing it that Knocked Down gives -3 agility, as opposed to being automatically hit by agility attacks (EG something being thrown at a knocked down person). I'll need to play some more games though. I'm not sure whether we should make the "Knocked Out" be a total of -6, or still keep that as automatically hit or not.
The original idea is have Magneto, Colossus and Cyclops hang out as a little group together. Gambit being a bit further out, then Wolverine and Rogue running about causing havoc.
Rogues been buffed pretty massively with power thief. - She's pretty darned awesome as a spoiler now. - Someones gearing up for a Once Per Game attack? Send Rogue in, between her stuns and power thiefs, it's entirely possible that they might just not have enough power counters left to get into position and pull of their huge attacks.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/11 15:45:20
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/11 17:54:48
Black Templars: WIP
Night Lords (30/40k): WIP
Red Corsairs: WIP
Iron Warriors: WIP
Orks: 6000pts
Batman Miniatures Game: Mr.Freeze, Joker
Ever wanted a better 5th ed. 40k? Take a look at 5th ed. Reforged! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/794253.page
455_PWR wrote: Nice video. Was on the fence with the new set... now it's on my buy list! Can't wait to actually have a full pure faction freeze force with henchmen.
I hear they will be releasing more henchmen packs for Mr freeze soon.
Thanks
Supposedly next month we get the first blister
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/12/12 19:34:45
Black Templars: WIP
Night Lords (30/40k): WIP
Red Corsairs: WIP
Iron Warriors: WIP
Orks: 6000pts
Batman Miniatures Game: Mr.Freeze, Joker
Ever wanted a better 5th ed. 40k? Take a look at 5th ed. Reforged! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/794253.page
If you're looking to start, my advice is to forget about Spider-man completely as it was dead on arrival sadly, if you want Batman or Marvel Universe then jump right in, just pick one of the team starters which are available for pretty much every faction and go from there, and for the DC Universe game, either grab the Batman/Superman/Wonder Woman set now if you think that's a team you'll want to play, or hold off a bit as I imagine we'll get some new team sets pretty soon (not sure if they do December releases, but if not, then something will almost certainly land in January).
I'm hoping for some DCUMG releases real soon (Lex Luthor, Sinestro, GL, MM, updated rules for some more BMG characters, etc) as that's the game I want to play of all KM's games. I can form a team of Villains, but still want to make sure KM will continue regular support for it.
And best part is (also advice for the poster you were replying to), you can play it w/ MUMG. Which is great where I'm at b/c so many people have MUMG teams (also tons of BMG gangs up here, but most players dont have enough to make a real DCUMG list).
Automatically Appended Next Post: as i see the announcement for Luthor and Black Adam lol...
Yup, typical gamesize for Batman is 350 reputation / 1500 funding.
Typical size for Marvel / DC is 50 levels. Though it wouldn't surprise me if people playing DC VS DC games go up to 60 or so. The Big S accounts for 18 levels all by his lonesome.
Quite happy with him; he is a nice model to paint up, and to practice highlighting on. I'm still trying to get the hang of painting organic shapes; after the highlighting I did end up having to go back and trying to fix some trouble spots, but the colour didn't come out exactly the same when I did so, resulting in some areas that (rather embarrassingly) stand out a bit more than I intended because of the slightly different colour. Hopefully it's not too noticeable.
Just got my Suicide Squad boxset in the mail last week. Very impressed with the content. I am already looking at a third crew, but am not familiar with who can "gang" up with who. I have not read the rules entirely, so maybe there is a "who can gang up with who list" in there. Common sense on a lit of them, but some Villains don't dig each other.
A couple options I am looking at are Batman + cops/ catwoman (?), something with the comic version of Killer Croc or the Black Mask crew.
Any advise would be welcomed. Thanks.
Mat
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/01 07:01:57
The best thing is to have a play with this, it's a crew builder that lists who works with any given faction.
http://bmg-builder.com/batman.html
General rules of crew-building:
- A crew's size is governed by Reputation and Funding. Some models only have a Rep cost, others (usually those with ranged weapons or other specialist gear) cost Funding as well. You get $500 for every 150 Rep (rounding up), and the standard game sizes are 300R/$1000, or 350R/S1500
- A crew must have 1 model with the Leader or Sidekick rank, who is the crew's Boss. They may then have an additional sidekick if they wish.
- A crew can have 1 Free Agent per 150 Reputation, unless it includes a model with the Charismatic trait, in which case it's 1 per 100R. A crew can include any number of Henchmen so long as you have the Rep and Funds available.
- Every model has an Affiliatiion on its card, this lists the crews it can be taken with. If a model's Affiliation is Unknown, it can be taken in any crew that doesn't include a model it has Hatred for (ie. Blackgate Prisoners have Affiliate: Unknown, and Hates Batman/Green Arrow/Law Forces, meaning you can take them in any 'bad guy' crew).
- Some models have Affinity: Character as a trait, meaning they can be included in any crew that features a model of that name. For example, the comic version of Harley has Affinity: Poison Ivy, and thus can be included in a crew with her despite her Affiliation being Joker only.
That's about it, there's a few other bits that you can find in the rulebook but that's the basics. The team builder listed above won't let you make an 'illegal' crew, as it removes any impossible selections each time you add a character to the roster.
Here's a couple of example crews going by what you mentioned:
All you need to buy for that is the Quick Response Team box and Catwoman, assuming you got a SS with Batman. If not, then you'll have to get a different Batman, but you can still use the Batfleck stat card if you want.
As for Black Mask, perhaps
Black Mask
Killer Croc (SS version)
Solomon Grundy
Anatoly, Mesh and Goon 1
342Rep, $600
This is the BM starter set, KC and Grundy. Grundy is a good one to have as he can be used for a lot of different crews, so if you find your Joker team a little short on muscule or want to expand later into Penguin or Two-face crews, he can be slotted into those very easily. Deathstroke is a good alternative if you don't fancy Grundy, his Comic version card is about the same Rep but much shootier and again, he can work with all sorts.
combat engineer wrote: Just got my Suicide Squad boxset in the mail last week. Very impressed with the content. I am already looking at a third crew, but am not familiar with who can "gang" up with who. I have not read the rules entirely, so maybe there is a "who can gang up with who list" in there. Common sense on a lit of them, but some Villains don't dig each other.
A couple options I am looking at are Batman + cops/ catwoman (?), something with the comic version of Killer Croc or the Black Mask crew.
Any advise would be welcomed. Thanks.
Mat
afaikhttp://hero-builder.net/ is the most up-to-date. As for advice on who to pair up, that really comes down to your preference of style and flavor I suppose?
currently playing: ASoIaF | Warhammer 40k: Kill Team
other favorites:
FO:WW | RUMBLESLAM | WarmaHordes | Carnevale | Infinity | Warcry | Wrath of Kings
Yeah the http://www.hero-builder.net is the main one that's kept up to date now. It also has an army builder for the superhero game., so you can compare and contrast that one.
I do have the SS Killer Croc, but the comic/ AK version looks so a much better. Same reason I bought the Killing Joke Joker, just looks better. Nice to see that each version has different rules.
I would like to start with either a Batman (Not sure on version. Yes, I did get the SS Batman.), Batgirl and two to three Henchman (Gotham Police/ Agents.) or a possibly a Scarecrow crew.
Mat
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/02/01 19:23:03
Yeah, I bought the Killing Joke Joker as a replacement for Leto.
Cause, eww, Leto.
I'll still use his rules (the Joker gang in the box set doesn't work without Leto's rules, unfortunately.)
Batgirl's kinda a hard one to use, I've fielded her a couple of times and not really worked out the 'knack' with her. She's got this kinda weird thing in that she's too squishy to fight tough badguys, but is just enough points that it's worthwhile for tough badguys to fight her. I suppose if you use her for objective grabbing, she should be able to comfortably handle any cheap objective guards the other team has.
Batfleck, I used him for the first time last week. He's a really interesting one compared to the other Batman guys. And that's because he is also surprisingly squishy. And yet, he's also a massive close combat rear-kicking machine too. Albeit, one that's somewhat slow. I'd describe him as a bit of a "Glass Cannon" Batman. The Dark Knight Returns Batman is kind of similiar but um, a glassier cannon?
Arkham Knight Batman is the one that I've seen used most often. He's basically just a super murder machine, but is also one of the toughest. Downside again is, he's relatively slow. And also, for efficiency purposes, you're also probably best fielding him with Arkham Knight Robin.
Arkham Origins / Arkham City Batman are sort of the all-round Batman. They're expensive, but not the most expensive. I'd probably recommend Arkham City Batman if you want the allround 'Batman' experience.
The "Dark Knight Rises" Batman, aka Christian Bale is the fast, sneaky Batman. He's not as full on killy as Batfleck or the computer game ones but he's got a few tricks up his sleeve, like sneak attacking then arresting people. He's also the fastest Batman.
The Animated Series Batman is your budget bat. I've not used him yet but he feels like he's mostly there, like Batgirl I mentioned earlier, for objective shenanigans. And also, for those situations where you want to take a really expensive sidekick, like Cyborg or The Flash (aaah aah).
Mordern Age Batman is one of the newest ones, I can't really put my finger on him. He and Robin seem like they'd make a nice team up as 'something different.' On the other hand, do you really want to paint up a kid in booty shorts?
I tend to pretend/forget that Adam West Batman exists. Basically he's just a cheap support piece that gives you extra money, as far as I can see. Kinda similar to animated series Batman.
No more direct 1966 Batman characters have been announced, but... There's a new Catwoman due at some point.
Compel wrote: I tend to pretend/forget that Adam West Batman exists. Basically he's just a cheap support piece that gives you extra money, as far as I can see. Kinda similar to animated series Batman.
No more direct 1966 Batman characters have been announced, but... There's a new Catwoman due at some point.
I need that Catwoman figure, right meow!
(sorry, couldn't resist).
On a more serious note, I really like how Knight Models makes the stat cards for all the figures available on line. It allows a guy like me who does not need multiple Batman figures to play the stats I want to.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/01 22:09:25
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
Black Templars: WIP
Night Lords (30/40k): WIP
Red Corsairs: WIP
Iron Warriors: WIP
Orks: 6000pts
