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 Psienesis wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Krogan Battlemaster. The shield tech of Mass Effect plus armor and natural durability would stop boltguns from doing enough damage before the Krogan could get in range to turn the Space Marine in to paste with their biotic battle hammer. Seriously that hammer crushes far deadlier things than mere Astartes.

I dunno, the shields could very easily be stripped down by a boltgun. I think biotics would be the main issue with Krogan.

Well the question would be what can take out that shield. and what is comparable to a 40k themed weapon.

Anything with kinetic impact so... a stubber? A lasgun? A multi-las? Bolters, sniper weapons, grenades..... melta would just melt the person inside the shield. Flamer just sets them on fire, shields are useless against those attacks.

Ja the shield wont have an effect on lasguns or multi las. (though i forget that there was a blerb on some fluff piece stating that lasguns are some kinda kinetic light weapon(the mind boggles).)

So what weapon are we giving the vet. since if he is like batman and knows EVERYTHING before a fight then thats hardly fair.


Also what is the actual equivelent of those weapons to ME weapons

Then figure out how fast and quick they can take down a shield.

and just how fast a krogren master can do what he needs to do to take down a marine while he is floating mid air.


Double edit: on a side note. on a 1v1 no armor weapons or biotec, marine would have it. just for the fact that he is probably faster and less clunkey (though he is pretty clunkey)
Its all the juicy add ons that make this fight diffrent.

I would say the boltgun is roughly equivalent to the Cerberus Harrier. Decent rate of fire, good accuracy, relatively low magazine size (boltguns in the FFG roleplays have always had small magazines), extremely high damage per hit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That also makes me wonder-- does the Krogan Battlemaster have any special mods to his weapon and armor, or special ammo? I know one thing, mine uses a shotgun capable of turning things in to pink mist... through their shields and armor. The Claymore, with superheavy barrel, shredder mod, and armor piercing ammo, and shotgun rail.

If so, for purpose of this debate, is the SM toting any special ammo for the bolter? Grenades? A plasma pistol? Iron Halo?

Or a Gravgun?

I was assuming standard weapons, not heavy weapons. If we're going with heavy weapons, the Krogan definitely wins hands down. The Cain gun is capable of destroying small reapers by shearing them apart in a way that makes grav-guns look pathetic; the Blackstar effectively fires vortex grenades; and the Hydra is specifically designed to deal with mutliple armored and shielded opponents, capable of taking down several terminator-class enemies when firing only once.

Marines don't have that kind of firepower, so I was assuming basic assault rifles, sniper rifles, shotguns, etc.

And if you want to say "okay, plasmagun!", I'd like to point out that there's several plasma weapons (an SMG, an AR, and a shotgun) in the Mass Effect universe, and shields protect against them just as well as they do bullets and missiles.

The difference with those ME weapons, though, is that they can miss (and do, easily... the number of mofos I see waving those beam-weapons around like an epileptic being electrocuted...) and they carry extremely limited ammo (that black-hole gun packs, what, 3 shots?) and, especially the graviton-gun, its payload is actually very easily avoided. It's slow-as-feth in traveling to the target... a Space Marine could jump over it without issue.

 Psienesis wrote:
The difference with those ME weapons, though, is that they can miss (and do, easily... the number of mofos I see waving those beam-weapons around like an epileptic being electrocuted...) and they carry extremely limited ammo (that black-hole gun packs, what, 3 shots?) and, especially the graviton-gun, its payload is actually very easily avoided. It's slow-as-feth in traveling to the target... a Space Marine could jump over it without issue.

Are we applying in game AI silliness now?

The accuracy of the AI depends on the difficulty and the type of AI you're talking about, and whether or not there's a cinematic need for them to miss (just like in 40k books, I should remind you). And if it's a player firing it, they won't be missing their target with something like a damn blackstar.

 Melissia wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
A rapid firing bolter would blow a Krogan to pieces. Krogan are not that hard to kill.

Actually, Krogan are notoriously hard to kill in the ME3 lore. Wrex talks to Shepard about surviving a fall from orbit, as if it's something Krogans could do (even if most aren't stupid enough to try). Krogans have a lot in common with Orks, including multiple redundant organs (such as a redundant nervous system).

Without context I can not comment on the surviving a fall from orbit. Though, given that shepard managed to have his corpse survive rentry it might be just ME armor protects you from the forces involved from reentry. Or it could be Krogan boasting.

Bolters are built to kill creatures with redundant systems thanks to their mass reactive rounds. A couple of bolts into the belly and the krogan's insides will be a slurry. Failing a boltgun a meltagun would do the job just fine as Kinetic barriers dont protect at all against heat.

 Melissia wrote:
The Krysae is closer to a grenade launcher than a boltgun really. It's not an armor piercing weapon, it's a weapon that's intended to detonate near its target, and damage them with shrapnel and explosive force/heat.

Also, how fast shields go down depends on the difficulty.

Whaaaat?

You do realize that if bolters fail to immediately penetrate, they detonate like an extremely powerful frag grenade and riddle everything near them with shrapnel, riiiiight? That's kinda Bolter 101, as the "mass reactive cap" acts like a timed fuse after activating, such as striking a kinetic barrier and failing to immediately penetrate. They don't just glance off harmless like a bullet, they blow up in your face. Otherwise they're penetrating your armor and blowing up in your chest cavity and coring you in a similar manner to what a Javelin missile does to a tank.

Not necessarily. Battlemasters among Krogans are often equivalent to nobz amongst Orks in size, and Krogan battlemaster armor is heavier than anything humans field in the ME universe-- even more massive than the T5-V Devastator Battlesuit, which is powered armor that comes with its own in-built missile launcher and scatter grenade launcher. They would easily be a 3+ save, with two wounds like a nob. The shields are a tough one, as you have to go through them to even get to the armor and body of the character; perhaps a 3++ save until the battlemaster takes a wound?

You should also keep in mind that Krogans aren't stupid. And in order to become a battlemaster, they must have decades if not centuries of combat experience (Krogans, if they don't die violent deaths, live as long as the Asari). Both the Krogan Battlemaster and the Astartes (assuming a Tactical given the loadout) would have similar combat experience.

I see this as an unfair fight to the astartes. Assuming a thousand iterations, he'd probably win a few hundred of them, but most of the time he'd become paste beneath the Mass Effect equivalent of a thunder hammer that also functions as a force weapon.

 Melissia wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
A rapid firing bolter would blow a Krogan to pieces. Krogan are not that hard to kill.

Actually, Krogan are notoriously hard to kill in the ME3 lore. Wrex talks to Shepard about surviving a fall from orbit, as if it's something Krogans could do (even if most aren't stupid enough to try). Krogans have a lot in common with Orks, including multiple redundant organs (such as a redundant nervous system).

You also realize that falling from orbit is not a sign of durability at all, right?[. Not only may he have had some means to slow his fall before hitting the ground or water, but modern space-craft are meant to burn in from orbit or even smash directly into the water. They will not stand up to a barrage of something similar to autocannon fire. Not to mention that while Orks are dangerous, they're only dangerous to Astartes in large numbers. In a matter of minutes IIRC the Brothers of the Snake killed tens of thousands of Orks in a mass melee. Not to mention that Krogans are no-where near as durable as Orks (who don't really need any organs to survive) and will fall over dead from a single penetrating Bolter shell as the shockwave alone from the explosion causing organs to rupture and hemorrhaging.

 Wyzilla wrote:
You do realize that if bolters fail to immediately penetrate, they detonate like an extremely powerful frag grenade

No, because I don't believe in fan-spank. For example, when Jurgen's carapace helmet stopped the bolter shell fired at it, it exploded against the helmet and destroyed it-- but it was not described as a "powerful frag grenade", which would have shredded both Vail and Cain if that was the case. Similar results happened in Gaunt's Ghosts and other books. Bolter shells do NOT explode like frag weapons.


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 Wyzilla wrote:
In a matter of minutes IIRC the Brothers of the Snake killed tens of thousands of Orks in a mass melee.

Funny people complain about me mentioning C.S. Goto, but then mention Brothers of the Snake as if it's any better.

 Melissia wrote:
Not necessarily. Battlemasters among Krogans are often equivalent to nobz amongst Orks in size, and Krogan battlemaster armor is heavier than anything humans field in the ME universe-- even more massive than the T5-V Devastator Battlesuit, which is powered armor that comes with its own in-built missile launcher and scatter grenade launcher. They would easily be a 3+ save, with two wounds like a nob. The shields are a tough one, as you have to go through them to even get to the armor and body of the character; perhaps a 3++ save until the battlemaster takes a wound?

Game mechanics are MEANINGLESS. Both in the tabletop and ME. What also is important is the exact amount of kinetic energy a Battlemaster's KB's can migitate, otherwise a bolter may very well even outright kill him from the impact alone, not even the detonations. Along with how strong/durable his power armor is, how much the Krogan can lift, the speed of the Krogan's nervous system, his running speed, and how strong his limbs are in a fight- such as rending metal without his hammer.

You should also keep in mind that Krogans aren't stupid. And in order to become a battlemaster, they must have decades if not centuries of combat experience (Krogans, if they don't die violent deaths, live as long as the Asari). Both the Krogan Battlemaster and the Astartes (assuming a Tactical given the loadout) would have similar combat experience.

No they don't. Astartes spend a lifetime of fighting enemies such as Orks and Chaos- along with occasional engagements against the Necrons, Tyranids, and Eldar, all of whom laughably surpass everything in Mass Effect (which is fairly bottom-tier Sci Fi when it comes to power levels compared to most other fictions, especially Science Fantasy). Krogans spend most of their days gaining experience of the various scattered factions in ME, who pack worse weapons than the Guard and are less lethal even when it comes to melee.

I see this as an unfair fight to the astartes. Assuming a thousand iterations, he'd probably win a few hundred of them, but most of the time he'd become paste beneath the Mass Effect equivalent of a thunder hammer that also functions as a force weapon.

Not really considering Krogans are horribly slow and the Astartes could literally tire the Krogan to death by running from him and keeping the battlemaster in pursuit, or simply rushing forward and striking with such speed that the Krogan is incapable of parrying most, if any attacks. They don't fight things like Astartes at all in ME- who possess millisecond or greater reaction speeds. The only thing the Krogan has going for him is biotic powers, and those only play into his hand if he maximizes their use instead of charging into melee or entering a gunfight.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Game mechanics are MEANINGLESS.

I was simply making comparisons based off of the easiest measure we could come up with. Game mechanics are what we have to compare them off of. In the novelizations and other stories, Krogan and Astarte protagonists are both nigh-unkillable death machines. That's just the nature of being a protagonist in an action novel/movie, and therefor not useful for this discussion. Hell, Krogan Battlemasters are one to one on par with Asari Comandos-- and a team of asari Commandos are well capable of eliminating hundreds of enemies in a single engagement, which nullifies your Brothers of the Snake trashbook.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Krogans spend most of their days gaining experience of the various scattered factions in ME, who pack worse weapons than the Guard and are less lethal even when it comes to melee.

By the time of ME3, which I'm using because ME3 is where Battlemasters become playable, they also have to face off against enemies far deadlier than Astartes and far harder to kill. And they do a fairly good job of it-- Battlemasters are one of the more competitive classes in ME3 multiplayer, last I checked. They are the second most durable class in the game (the most durable class is the Geth Juggernaut, which is literally a walking tank with the ability to infallibly grab its enemies and drain them of energy to replenish its shields mid-battle-- now THAT is an unfair matchup, one Astartes would always lose against one Jugg!) and their biotic hammer turns enemies in to greasy stains on the floor.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Not really considering Krogans are horribly slow and the Astartes

Actually, Astartes re also quite slow, going off of the Space Marine game. In fact, Krogans are faster than Space Marines, comparing the two side by side, and Krogans can swing their biotic hammer faster with just one hand than an Astartes can swing their thunder hammer with two, even though the hammers are roughly the same size.

 Melissia wrote:
Not necessarily. Battlemasters among Krogans are often equivalent to nobz amongst Orks in size, and Krogan battlemaster armor is heavier than anything humans field in the ME universe-- even more massive than the T5-V Devastator Battlesuit, which is powered armor that comes with its own in-built missile launcher and scatter grenade launcher. They would easily be a 3+ save, with two wounds like a nob. The shields are a tough one, as you have to go through them to even get to the armor and body of the character; perhaps a 3++ save until the battlemaster takes a wound?

You should also keep in mind that Krogans aren't stupid. And in order to become a battlemaster, they must have decades if not centuries of combat experience (Krogans, if they don't die violent deaths, live as long as the Asari). Both the Krogan Battlemaster and the Astartes (assuming a Tactical given the loadout) would have similar combat experience.

I see this as an unfair fight to the astartes. Assuming a thousand iterations, he'd probably win a few hundred of them, but most of the time he'd become paste beneath the Mass Effect equivalent of a thunder hammer that also functions as a force weapon.

0_o

Explain how armour which can be brought down by rifles not much stronger than modern ones, can provide the same protection as marine power armour which can tank bolter rounds? The shields in ME really aren't impressive and should be eventually taken down by modern small arms. A few .50 cal bursts will take down a krogan never mind .75 cal bolt rounds. All you need is one to penetrate the armour and the krogan is mission killed. Not to mention ME small arms wouldn't scratch power armour unless you jammed the damn gun into the joints and fired.

The marine is also faster, stronger and far tougher, this is a hilarious stomp in favour of the marine. Now if the marine wasn't in power armour he'd probably suffer some wounds but still win regardless.

The redundant nervous system is actually a terrible thing for a pain-feeling creature, as mentioned a couple pages ago. Wrex might also be bullgakking, as he does have a sense of humor. It's his usual deadpan delivery that sells it.

From the ME Wiki:

Mass Effect Wikia wrote:As the Codex details, the Battle Masters were officers of the krogan military. Tough, disciplined, well-armed, and biotically gifted, a single Battle Master is said to be an equal match to ten soldiers of any other species. Battle Masters regard killing as a science and focus on developing economy of motion which allow them to maximise the advantage gained from their incredible strength in battle; a single blow from a Battle Master is usually enough to kill or severely incapacitate any non-krogan.

Would seem that the Krogan are the ME-verse's equivalent to Space Marines, with similar comparisons to their equivalents in the soldiers of other species.

We see in several parts of the games that two Krogan duking it out are not one-shotting each other, and I think it fair to say that a Space Marine is well beyond human norms in terms of strength, resilience and endurance, so isn't likely to get one-shot by the hammer... and that's assuming it hits. One thing Krogans aren't is supremely fast. Heavy natural armor, most certainly, but not about to do start doing backflips and somersaults, where a Space Marine can.

As far as the Biotic powers go? Depends on which ones the Krogan knows, really. Kind of like psyker powers, not all of them are going to have something useful for the situation.

 Hoyt wrote:
Explain how armour which can be brought down by rifles not much stronger than modern ones

Mass Effect guns are actually far more powerful, especially at piercing armor, than modern guns. Whereas a modern gun fires a heavy bullet faster than the speed of sound, a gun in Mass Effect fires a sliver of metal at a far, far faster speed, carrying considerably more force than an equivalent modern gun in spite of firing a smaller projectile-- described as the size of a grain of sand-- by reducing its mass to effectively zero, letting it accelerate to speeds equivalent to a fraction of the speed of light. All of that force is focused on a much smaller point than with a modern bullet, allowing it to pierce armor quite easily. The projectile fired does damage by imparting the force that it carries in to the body that it hits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
As far as the Biotic powers go? Depends on which ones the Krogan knows, really. Kind of like psyker powers, not all of them are going to have something useful for the situation.

Going off of the game, Krogan battlemasters' "standard" biotic powers are Barrier, and Biotic Hammer. The former reduces or prevents damage (including after their shields are lost) and the latter makes their hammer in to the equivalent of a Force Weapon.

 Melissia wrote:

 Hoyt wrote:
Explain how armour which can be brought down by rifles not much stronger than modern ones

Mass Effect guns are actually far more powerful, especially at piercing armor, than modern guns. Whereas a modern gun fires a heavy bullet faster than the speed of sound, a gun in Mass Effect fires a sliver of metal at a far, far faster speed, carrying considerably more force than an equivalent modern gun in spite of firing a smaller projectile-- described as the size of a grain of sand-- by reducing its mass to effectively zero, letting it accelerate to speeds equivalent to a fraction of the speed of light. All of that force is focused on a much smaller point than with a modern bullet, allowing it to pierce armor quite easily. The projectile fired does damage by imparting the force that it carries in to the body that it hits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
As far as the Biotic powers go? Depends on which ones the Krogan knows, really. Kind of like psyker powers, not all of them are going to have something useful for the situation.

Going off of the game, Krogan battlemasters' "standard" biotic powers are Barrier, and Biotic Hammer. The former reduces or prevents damage (including after their shields are lost) and the latter makes their hammer in to the equivalent of a Force Weapon.

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/mass-effect-small-arms.177227/

The advantage of ME small arms is their large ammo capacity and damn good ROF( at least in ME 1, before the heat sink crap)
A lasgun is almost equivalent to a .50 cal in terms of power per shot, as in both can lop off human limbs. ME small arms are inferior to lasguns, power armour would shrug off those rounds easily.

I think not. Lasguns are notoriously far less effective at penetrating armor than ME weapons are.

 Melissia wrote:
I think not. Lasguns are notoriously far less effective at penetrating armor than ME weapons are.

And do you have any hard evidence to back up your claim( or any of your claims in this thread)?


EDIT: Forgot to mention, even penetrating power armour doesn't mean the marine inside will be seriously harmed. Space marines are far far tougher than krogan(which can have their armour penetrated and killed by ME small arms, probably a full mag if he has KBs), ME small arms just aren't gonna cut it unless you get a chance to shoot him while he's naked with scores of rounds.

 Hoyt wrote:
And do you have any hard evidence to back up your claim( or any of your claims in this thread)?

Heavily armored enemies are present in ME3, but are still taken down by ME3's better weapons without them harmlessly pinging off of the armor. Especially with appropriate mods, I should note. But even without them, weapons like the Claymore-- a shotgun made for Krogans which was far too powerful for unaugmented humans to fire without breaking their arms-- are more than capable of damaging heavily armored opponents.


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 Hoyt wrote:
Space marines are far far tougher than krogan(which can have their armour penetrated and killed by ME small arms

Space Marines can be killed by small arms. Including primitive arms, such as crossbow bolts. They are not nigh-unkillable gods. In fact, a Claymore shotgun's blast landing a solid hit would turn an unarmored Space Marine in to mush. As a boltgun is to an assault rifle, the Claymore is to a standard shotgun. With a Shredder mod and armor piercing ammo, it would stand a good chance of doing the same to an armored Space Marine.

Krogan can be killed by typical off the shelf small arms like pistols in Mass Effect. Small arms that aren't appreciable more powerful than a autogun.

 Melissia wrote:

 Hoyt wrote:
And do you have any hard evidence to back up your claim( or any of your claims in this thread)?

Heavily armored enemies are present in ME3, but are still taken down by ME3's better weapons without them harmlessly pinging off of the armor. Especially with appropriate mods, I should note. But even without them, weapons like the Claymore-- a shotgun made for Krogans which was far too powerful for unaugmented humans to fire without breaking their arms-- are more than capable of damaging heavily armored opponents.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hoyt wrote:
Space marines are far far tougher than krogan(which can have their armour penetrated and killed by ME small arms

Space Marines can be killed by small arms. Including primitive arms, such as crossbow bolts. They are not nigh-unkillable gods. In fact, a Claymore shotgun's blast landing a solid hit would turn an unarmored Space Marine in to mush. As a boltgun is to an assault rifle, the Claymore is to a standard shotgun.

There is no personal amour in ME that is as good as power armour. Modern day small arms could take on ME soldiers.

Here's some marine feats; http://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/40k-source-and-feats-thread.235176/#post-8614291

Krogan are slightly less agile than ordinary humans, a marine would be a blur to a krogan. This is a massive advantage in combat.

In a one on one, a space marine is so far beyond a krogan it's absurd, in this instance, unless the krogan fire black holes from his eyeballs,he cannot win.

 Wyzilla wrote:
I'd also point out that the Krogan "takes your shoulder off" shotgun is definitely hyperbole. Not only do we never see it do such a thing, normal humans make a regular habit of beating up Krogans (IIRC Shepard even headbutts a Krogan out cold once) without sustaining horrible casualties or using BFG's, but "It takes yer gurd durm urm urff" is among the most common hyperbolic descriptions of firearms since their inception. I can't even recall how many times I've heard magnum fanboys talking about how their .44 or larger will rip my hands off when firing.

Typically, at best, "it rips your arm off" is a generous description for dislocation of a limb. If even that.

I really don't feel like replaying the entire Mass Effect series, so I'm gonna be quoting the wiki as fluff. If you don't like it, sue me.

For the M-300 Claymore Shotgun:

The Claymore used to be a hard-hitting but poor-selling shotgun due to kickback problems snapping the arms of anyone but krogan firing the weapon. After a rehaul of its kinetic dampening system, the Claymore is being rolled out again. As a way to lure back customers, the gun's manufacturer has lowered the shotgun's selling price without skimping on its stopping-power.

Basically, the Claymore used to be an Elephant gun on steroids. By ME3, it's manufacturer realized that it would make more money by making an elephant gun on steroids with minimal kickback.

Now, onto the Krogan themselves...

Shephard never knocked out a Krogan. He headbutted a Krogan Warlord in order to help Grunt gain his rite of passage. This did nothing but impress the Krogan, as he felt that Shephard may have understood Krogan ways better than the Warlord originally thought.

I'll start by saying that Krogan are basically the really horny Space Marines of Mass Effect. They have many secondary, tertiary, and quaternary organs. They are as hard to kill as lesser Orks, and the older they get the bigger they are (they're a bit like anacondas). Also, they look like turtles. Really badass turtles.

Now, some pros:

krogan eyes are wide-set - on Earth, this is common among prey animals, and in this case it gives the krogan 240-degree vision

- basically the tactic of flanking them will virtually never work (in single combat, I mean)

Krogan also have a secondary nervous system using a neuroconductive fluid, meaning they are almost impossible to paralyze.

- This would also result in the headless chicken effect, and a decapitated Krogan would likely keep fighting even after he's dead. Kinda like an Ork.

Aside from redundant systems, the legendary krogan "blood rage" adds to the race's reputation for being notoriously difficult to kill or incapacitate in normal combat scenarios. In this state, krogan become totally unresponsive to pain and will fight to the death regardless of injury level, with the side effect of reducing their capacity for logic and self-control.

This is basically just like the drugs used to make the AdMech's Praetorians (their best Skitarii they could possibly create) ultimate badasses, only the blood rage doesn't make the Krogan's flesh dissolve. So, it's like a human being hopped up on adrenaline, meth, cocaine, and heroine all at once, without any negative side-effects but tunnel vision and reduced thinking capacity. One of the key factors of a Krogan Battlemaster is that he has a mastery of his Bloodrage that is generally unseen among your average Krogan, which is part of the reason that he was able to servive the 300-500 years necessary to become a battlemaster.

Sheer physical hardiness means an individual krogan can expect to live for centuries. Krogan can live for well over a thousand years, as evidenced by Warlord Okeer, a veteran of the Krogan Rebellions who died (of decidedly unnatural causes) well over a thousand years after the Rebellions ended.

Basically, most of your Krogan battlemasters are going to have centuries more experience than a SM Veteran (avg. SM lifespan is 150-200 years, due to decidedly unnatural causes).

Battle Masters regard killing as a science and focus on developing economy of motion which allow them to maximise the advantage gained from their incredible strength in battle; a single blow from a Battle Master is usually enough to kill or severely incapacitate any non-krogan.

Think of Battlemasters as the Tech Priests of the Krogan world - cold, hard logic and precise movements.

When pressed to follow him, Saren declined, claiming that only an idiot would fight a krogan biotic one-on-one.

It should be noted that Saren was one of the most skilled SpecOps soldier in the entire Milky Way, and even he was unwilling to take on a Battlemaster one-on-one

Urdnot Wrex is also one of the last Krogan Battlemasters: rare individuals who combine powerful biotic abilities with the devastating firepower of advanced weaponry

Basically, Battlemasters are more skilled than Librarians (no Krogan has ever been reported to die of old age, many surviving for thousands of years of fighting) in the use of magic, as they have more experience, and, quite frankly, they're more powerful (unless the Librarian is a frigga Beta Psyker, in which case, power would be even).

As for armor, Krogan Battlemasters are able to shrug off plasma blasts from Geth Juggernauts, so I'd say that it is quite effective. This is complimented by any Kinetic and/or biotic barriers that a Battlemaster might have. Most likely, the Battlemaster will have finely tuned Biotic barriers capable of deflecting missiles with ease (I emphasize, once more, the sheer amount of experience they have), and will need to be worn down. The kinetic barriers they could, potentially have, would compound the biotic barriers, making for a truly formidable defense.

As for weapons, Krogan make use of pretty much anything they can get that is effective. On top of this, you have things like a toned-down bolter equivalent, a shotgun that's already been extensively discussed, and a pistol that has more power than ten Desert Eagles combined. I think that we can all agree that the Space Marines have significantly better weapons.

As for magic, A Krogan Battlemaster would be capable of using his claws like a toned-down Power Fist via Biotic Power. He could immobilize an Astartes via his biotic power, [urlhttp://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Lift]move him upwards a few dozen meters[/url], and shoot at the ground at maximum velocity. He could create a biotic singularity that would render the Space Marine a floating idiot waiting to be blown up by a biotic combo. He could implode the very molecules that compose the Space Marine, or tear them apart via Mass Effect fields. Honestly, this is where the Battlemaster truly shines.

We all know how awesome Space Marine Veterans are, there's no need for me to go over them, as well.

IMHO, the Krogan Battlemaster would win in the OP's situation, simply due to his centuries of experience that he has more than a Space Marine Veteran, and the fact that he could pulverize a Space Marine via Biotic Powers before the warrior even knows what's happening. I don't care how badass Power Armour is, the Battlemaster could tear it apart at the molecular level on a (comparably) massive scale - effectively rendering the SM armourless in a matter of seconds. If this were a fight between any Krogan but a Battlemaster, I'd say SM would win, but it wasn't, so, Krogan wins.

Yet in the novel Revalation, a krogan battlemaster called Skarr was wounded by Anderson with a pistol and an old man with a worn shotty, who also held him off long enough for Saren to show up and drive him off with a pistol as well.

ME biotics are nowhere near as powerful as pyskers, they can't be spammed like in the games, they require rest and nutrition after even just brief fights, though there are exceptions like Jack, but a generic krogan battlemaster won't be relying on his biotics to win.

In the first few seconds of the engagement, the battlemaster will be dropped by a few seconds of bolter Fire and that'll be that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You are assuming Lift will actually work on a marine, geth primes and juggernaughts are similar and cannot be lifted, you are also assuming things like warp will do damage to a marine quickly enough before the battlemaster is killed, also you assume the krogan will actually hit the marine with his powers, considering the difference in agility, the marine will put the krogan down before he can even hit him.

EDIT: Space Marine speed;

An Astartes will win no question.

On the topic of ME weapon stopping power and penetration...

It was mentioned (first page, I think?) that the rounds of ME weapons are designed to mushroom/shatter on impact, because the weapons driving them are generally over-powered and offer too much penetration, causing projectile blow-through (which means the round enters and exits the target, causing relatively little tissue damage, as was the case with the original M-16).

This may prove to be rather detrimental against ceramite power armor and a Black Carapace. Especially if the round fragments entering the PA, as it will lose significant penetration ability in doing so, and possibly be unable to penetrate the Marine's torso.

[/spoiler]
As evidenced in one of the quotes that I provided, a Krogan Battlemaster is simply a Krogan with access to Biotics. I was under the assumption that in a fight between a SM Veteran and a Krogan Battlemaster, it would be between a veteran Krogan Battlemaster - the kind of Krogan Battlemaster that has survived thousands of battles and has a perfect mastery over his biotics.

On Biotics:

Biotics is a term referring to the ability of some lifeforms to create a mass effect field using Element Zero modules embedded in their body tissues.

The Mass Effect Field is the resulting volume of spacetime that is affected by the charged element zero, either by increasing or decreasing the mass within that volume.

Basically, if a Krogan Battlemaster was facing an enemy he could barely even see, he could basically just crate a Mass Effect all around him that massively increases mass, and the Space Marine would be slowed down to a crawl (in comparison to his natural speed).

Biotics is a technology in the Mass Effect universe that describes an individual's ability to manipulate dark energy [aka Mass Effect]fields. It is highly valuable in combat due to its various applications such as protective shields, telekinesis, and gravity manipulation.

Again, if the Krogan is too slow, he'll just increase the gravity around him and make everyone else even slower. No matter how much Power Armour increases strength, it's own weight can still be turned against it.
Something to remember about Biotics: In-game powers are not a proper representation of the actual capability of a Biotic. In order to keep the game balanced, you have to have cool-down periods in between powers, and you can only use them in pre-determined ways. However, we have examples of Biotic individuals flying (via their Biotic powers), while, at the same time, using Biotics to toss platoons of mercenaries around like ragdolls. Then, we have examples of biotics flaying people alive with their minds.
In conclusion: Biotic abilities are the gamechanger, without them, the Krogan loses. However, the Krogan does have them, so Krogan wins.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
On the topic of ME weapon stopping power and penetration...

It was mentioned (first page, I think?) that the rounds of ME weapons are designed to mushroom/shatter on impact, because the weapons driving them are generally over-powered and offer too much penetration, causing projectile blow-through (which means the round enters and exits the target, causing relatively little tissue damage, as was the case with the original M-16).

This may prove to be rather detrimental against ceramite power armor and a Black Carapace. Especially if the round fragments entering the PA, as it will lose significant penetration ability in doing so, and possibly be unable to penetrate the Marine's torso.

It should be noted that the soldiers in Mass Effect (literally all of them) use Power Armour. Mass Effect weapons were designed to take down Power Armour, and many weapons (like Heavy Pistols) were designed specifically to penetrate the thickest of armours.

Ehm... no they aren't. Nothing in the ME Wikia provides anything about most suits of armor providing boosts to strength, though most comment that they are restrictive and clumsy, affecting accuracy with all weapons (even Light Armors are noted to only have the smallest accuracy impacts).