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As I asked. Which space marine chapter is the most devastating to fight ?

Some spring to mind like the Minotaurs who utterly destroy entire chapters to the last man.

Space sharks who annihilated the mantis warriors recruiting world.

Flesh tearers for their lack of control over the black rage.

What do you guys think?

Definitely the Carcharodons.

They're so bad, they don't even have warcries, because crying is for compliants.

Now get in the Thunderhawk so we can put you in a death match arena.

Marines Malevolent... They are the just the worst....

Brutal Cunning: Space Furries. It's, like, their thing, man.

Cunningly Brutal: Templars. ZERG RUSH MARINE HORDE FTW

The Space Sharks, they rip apart people just for the fun of it.

Yeah, Carcharodons.

annihilating a recruitment world falls more under strategy than tactics.
Nonetheless, the Carcharodons (Space Sharks) also are pretty brutal in their combat tactics.
Minotaurs are noted to be brutal as well, but the Badab War books make it clear that the Carcharodons have an even worse reputation for their savage brutality.

However, the Flesh Tearers have to take the cake. They regularly wipe out the entire planet they are deployed on, loyalists, traitors and civilians alike because they are completely lost to their bloodlust. They frighten entire rebellious sectors back in line just by their reputation, and they are so notorious for slaughtering everything in their part that many Imperial forces simply refuse to fight alongside them. They are also the only of these famously brutal chapters to have gone so far over the line in their brutality that they have actually come under Inquisitorial investigation.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
annihilating a recruitment world falls more under strategy than tactics.
Nonetheless, the Carcharodons (Space Sharks) also are pretty brutal in their combat tactics.
Minotaurs are noted to be brutal as well, but the Badab War books make it clear that the Carcharodons have an even worse reputation for their savage brutality.

However, the Flesh Tearers have to take the cake. They regularly wipe out the entire planet they are deployed on, loyalists, traitors and civilians alike because they are completely lost to their bloodlust. They frighten entire rebellious sectors back in line just by their reputation, and they are so notorious for slaughtering everything in their part that many Imperial forces simply refuse to fight alongside them. They are also the only of these famously brutal chapters to have gone so far over the line in their brutality that they have actually come under Inquisitorial investigation.

I'd give it to the Sharks. The Minotaurs wouldn't be investigated because they are the whipped bitches of the High Lords. The Sharks wouldn't be investigated because they're the basasses the High Lords turn to once the Minotaurs have gotten their asses kicked.

The Sharks blew up Badab Prime for gaks and giggles. What's more brutal than destroying a planet for the lulz?

Space Sharks, minotaurs are basicly the high lords personal arny. There brutal but not have same reputation.

Night Lords are on another level

 Exergy wrote:
Night Lords are on another level

We're talking Loyalists. Night Lords are cool and all, but Carcharodons are even worse because they're supposedly on the side of good.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
We're talking Loyalists. Night Lords are cool and all, but Carcharodons are even worse because they're supposedly on the side of good.

I don't want to get off topic, but saying the Imperium of Man is "the side of good" is pretty silly.


I'll cast another vote for the Space Sharks, though. A close second would be the Flesh Tearers. Minotaurs may come close, but the Marines Malevolent are just arrogant, not brutal. They don't go out of their way to be brutal and cruel, they just do what they do without caring about collateral damage.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
However, the Flesh Tearers have to take the cake. They regularly wipe out the entire planet they are deployed on, loyalists, traitors and civilians alike because they are completely lost to their bloodlust. They frighten entire rebellious sectors back in line just by their reputation, and they are so notorious for slaughtering everything in their part that many Imperial forces simply refuse to fight alongside them. They are also the only of these famously brutal chapters to have gone so far over the line in their brutality that they have actually come under Inquisitorial investigation.

It sounds like you're describing the Blood Knights, not the Flesh Tearers.

I'm going with Space Wolves. They got the whole berzerker label going for them because of how they fight. Fighting to the last, being a brutal as possible. Thats tactics.

Strategy is whom you attack and where. Tactics is how you attack.

The Wolves excel at making the attack as brutal as possible. Thus killing the will of the enemy to fight back because nobody in their right mind goes into the blender.

The Grey Knights.

Angry Marines. Nuff said.

Plus Carcharodons have Tyberos...

Ever look at his rules? He is pretty fething brutal. Maybe not the best CC beast but there is something to said for chainblade lightning claws. Even if its just "holy fething gak chainblade lightning claws!".

I dunno, the Sharks have a pretty straightforward battle plan. Kill everything, leave no doubt. And they live out on the fringe. Who knows what the hell goes on out there? Probably stuff that would make an Ultramarine or Imperial Fist wet their off duty dressing robes.

As terrifying as a Viking berserker might be I would still rather take my chances with him than a shark. At least I can fight the Viking on my own terms, the shark? Well gak, he is out there somewhere, I can't see, its all just black and blue haze. I can hardly swim, my lungs are on fire, there is movement over there, I can fething see this big big shape, what the feth is it? Oh feth. Its a shark. I'm dead. Look how fast he can sw....

I say Flesh Tearers, i mean their battle cry is " you and your innocent neighbor!!"

In terms of tactics? Grey Knights, without a doubt.

They've likely approved more incidences of Exterminatus than all the other Chapters combined, and part of their MO is to ship off the allied civillian populations to sterilisation camps, as well as their non-Marine allied units. The non-Knight Marines just get mind-wiped.

If that isn't brutal, I don't know what is. No other chapter will as casually sacrifice their own people and allies as the Grey Knights will.

Yes, their brutality is more justified and sanctioned than say the Space Sharks, but that doesn't make it lesser.

 dusara217 wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
However, the Flesh Tearers have to take the cake. They regularly wipe out the entire planet they are deployed on, loyalists, traitors and civilians alike because they are completely lost to their bloodlust. They frighten entire rebellious sectors back in line just by their reputation, and they are so notorious for slaughtering everything in their part that many Imperial forces simply refuse to fight alongside them. They are also the only of these famously brutal chapters to have gone so far over the line in their brutality that they have actually come under Inquisitorial investigation.

It sounds like you're describing the Blood Knights, not the Flesh Tearers.

"Their reputation for such savagery has spread through the millennia to the extent that some forces—including a few Space Marine Chapters— are no longer willing to engage in allied missions with members of the Flesh Tearers."

"The Space Marines chose to respond with overwhelming force and eliminated all of the system’s void-capable craft in short order. Once these craft were destroyed, they launched an assault against the system’s three settled worlds. The engagement lasted several years, as settlements were active on multiple planets and moons within the region. By the end of their military action, there were no known surviving human inhabitants within the system. The system was only resettled centuries later by colonists from other worlds of the Jericho Sector. The archaeological relics of the Flesh Tearers’ assault only hint at the brutality of the assault, but it is clear that no planetary scale attacks were used. Rather, the traitorous inhabitants were actually slain in combat."

"Kallern Massacres (Unknown Date.M36) - During the Imperial defence of the world of Kallern, the Flesh Tearers Astartes present on the planet were overcome by the Black Rage and slaughtered hundreds of innocent civilians as well as the foe. As a result of these massacres, the Flesh Tearers came under the close scrutiny of the Inquisition for potential heresy."

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Flesh_Tearers

I did not think about Grey Knights and yes, that's true they are brutal. But they do what they do because of primary necessity (given the Inquisition standards I mean). They exterminatus when it's necessary, for example when a planet is lost to Demons, and they sterilize or kill whitnesses of their wars because their motto is to stay secret. Even though it can looks brutal and abusive, they don't do this because they like it and they don't do this with mere chainsaws, just like Flesh Tearers seems to do. They launch cyclonic torpedoes and carry on. Cacharodons, Flesh Tearers, Flesh Eaters and Marines Malevolent are different IMO and thus far more brutal.

Cacharodons: utter destruction of the enemy but no know wanton killings of civilians IIRC. They just annihilate the enemy in a gruEsome manner but don't do stupid friendly fire.
Flesh Tearers: has it as been said, they can be blinded by the Black Rage anytime and destroy any human, friend or foe, they come accross. Far more problematic IMO
Flesh Eaters : well, pretty much the same as their Eaters cousins but... they also have cannibalistic rituals and blood drinkings habits that are quite awkward. SO awkward they may have sided with Khorne in recent years.
Marines Malevolent: no bloodlust but ordinary evil like using civilians as baits to set a traps to Orks Warbands. I mean, on Armaggedon, they waited for a refugee camp to be attacked by Orks and then destroyed it with their prepositioned Whirlwind artillery. Likewise, they don't respect civilians lives and wage war with no concern other their safety.

So, choose your weirdos and go on !

My pre heresy loyalist world eaters!!!!

War Kitten wrote:
The Space Sharks, they rip apart people just for the fun of it.

Muddatrukka beat me to it.

There are actually quite a few to choose from:

In terms of close quarters combat savagery, ruthless annihilation of worlds, total disregard of collateral damage and forcing a world's 'entire generation of men' to fight to the death as a recruitment tactic.
Carcharadons.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Carcharodons

There's also another chapter with doesn't give a frak about collateral damage whatsoever to the point that Lord Solar Macharius said of them,
"Unsuitable for tactical close support of other Imperial Units".
Star Phantoms
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Star_Phantoms

Then there's the Chapter that most other Chapters revile. The High Lords' Hounds who almost even as bloodthirsty as the Carcharadons in CQC. Famous for eradicating chapters (or nearly eradicating them, but not for lack of trying).
Minotaurs
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Minotaurs

--------------------------------

Funnily enough, these represent the majority of the Loyalist Space Marine Chapters that were sent to bring the Badab Secessionists back in line.
It makes you think really.... were the Astral Claws corrupted from the start or did they just run to Chaos when the Imperium unleashed these frakkers on them?

Carcharodons have attacked civilian populations, notably so they could more easily draw the mantis warriors into a favourable engagement, and when they took their recruiting world the war was already over they did it purely for vindictiveness. Remember as well it's heavily hinted Corax essentially banished them out of imperial space for their brutality during the great crusade

A vote for the Flesh Tearers here. When even ork warbands hesitate to get stuck in somewhere these crazies are fighting you know they're pretty nasty.

My vote for Grey Knights. They are on civilian murdering spree)

Carcharodons have attacked civilian populations

Okay, I did not know that. Their Badab War strategy was quite ruthless indeed. I guess it's hard to establish any kind of hierachy between all these chapters but I'll tend to vote for Flesh Eaters anyway. Imperial records about them are ... disturbing at least.

GAdvance wrote:
Carcharodons have attacked civilian populations, notably so they could more easily draw the mantis warriors into a favourable engagement, and when they took their recruiting world the war was already over they did it purely for vindictiveness. Remember as well it's heavily hinted Corax essentially banished them out of imperial space for their brutality during the great crusade

Carcharodons were not yet around during the Great Crusade. The future Flesh Tearers however were, and their founder was considered extremely brutal even by the Kharn and the World Eaters (it was they gave who him the nickname: The Flesh Tearer). I think that the guys who wow even World Eater berserkers with their brutality definitely deserve the price for most brutal Chapter.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

GAdvance wrote:
Carcharodons have attacked civilian populations, notably so they could more easily draw the mantis warriors into a favourable engagement, and when they took their recruiting world the war was already over they did it purely for vindictiveness. Remember as well it's heavily hinted Corax essentially banished them out of imperial space for their brutality during the great crusade

Carcharodons were not yet around during the Great Crusade. The future Flesh Tearers however were, and their founder was considered extremely brutal even by the Kharn and the World Eaters (it was they gave who him the nickname: The Flesh Tearer). I think that the guys who wow even World Eater berserkers with their brutality definitely deserve the price for most brutal Chapter.

It's heavily hinted at in several publications that part of the marines Corax sent away during the great crusade for being to brutal were the part of the raven guard who became the Carcharodons, they even have the same helmet as Tyberos