Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 dusara217 wrote:

rowboatjellyfanxiii wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
loyal to the Emperor, but not to the Imperium.

They're like that because 40k Imperium =/= 30k Imperium. Mankind went downhill quicker than a lubricated Land Speeder after Siege of Terra, with the Lubricant being the misinterpreted COHDECKS ASTAHTEEZ.

Actually, there was a period of about 4-5k years, after the Scouring, which was a veritable golden age for the Imperium.

In which every other Primarch died/went missing.
Age of Apostasy happened because they were weak in M36 because no Primarchs. Also, "Golden Age"? Orks were very close to killing them in M32.

I think the only possible conversation between Tau and Space Marines in such circumstances would go much like this:



Never forget that the Space Marines are supposed to be religious fanatics that make ISIS seem like tolerant liberals in comparison. There exists no such thing as a reasonable Space Marine. They were created to free mankind from xenos opression, and to bow to xenos would be the greatest possible heresy, even worse than falling to Chaos. If you were to introduce them to gue'vesa, they would start shooting them immediately for the vile heretical traitors they are.
The Space Marines are completely indoctrinated with hatred for xenos and loyalty to the Emperor and mankind. Even the incredible manipulative powers of Chaos don't sway them easily, and the Tau aren't nearly as manipulative and attractive to Space Marines as Chaos is.

I mean, there is absolutely nothing that the Tau can offer to the Space Marines, why would they ever commit this heresy? I fail to see your reason for Space Marines joining the Tau.

dusara217 wrote: The Tau codex begs to differ.

It doesn't . And please provide a source,yes?

dusara217 wrote: The Soul Drinkers spring to mind, here; loyal to the Emperor, but not to the Imperium.

The mutated, corrupted and no longer existing Soul Drinkers?

dusara217 wrote: If the Tau promised to restore the Emperor's vision of an unassailable, enlightened Imperium full of learning and reason, after saving the SM's lives, no less,

Unassailable Imperia doesn't exist. The 40K-verse is like any other Universe, one of a rise and fall of Civs and Empires.
The Space marines Know how to assail Empires, to tell them about an unassailable one

dusara217 wrote: I can think of a few Chapters who would turn.

Just report to the next Inquisitorial outpost.
OtoH, I doubt your candidates are what you think they are.

dusara217 wrote: The Water Caste are renowned for their capability to turn even the most adamant to the Greater Good, theire voices supposedly are as smooth as water, and have a persuasive quality to them that even a Rogue Trader would be jealous of.

Some of the first contacts of Humans with the Tau was Rogue Traders. They reported back to the IoM to warn it. Somehow, this Water Caste tricks aren't so good

dusara217 wrote:Non-Chaos Renegade Marines don't exist, right? We certainly have no examples of those at all. Certainly not the Flame Falcons, Soul Drinkers, Graven Specres, or Venom Thorns, definitely not. Nope, never happens.

Flame Falcons had a burn out IIRC, the Fate of the chaos tainted soul-drinkers is known, the other two? Never heard of them.
Basically you either make it back into the Imperial Fold or you join Chaos ( i.e. the dark side of Humans ). No one stays Renegade. Don't make a temporary state something to build on.

dusara217 wrote:, it could be that the Chaos fleet tried to murder the Tau fleet, and then the Marines were in a desperate situation. It would probably be something like an Ethereal going"lightbulb! If we destroy the Chaos fleet, who happens to be attacking us, and then destroy its ground forces, we might be able to take this planet! Oh, look, it's Space Marines, and they're trying to communicate. Quick, send some heavily-guarded Water Caste ambassadors down, they might be vulnerable to suggestion!

CSM And SM really hate each other. If you want to live, you don't step into that fight...
And Space Marines in general, are used to kill xenos. Xenos who interfere with space marine buisness? ..back to the pre-HH times for now and show them how "real space marines" do it.

dusara217 wrote:
Well, of course they wouldn't pretend to restore initial Imperial Truth, they would pretend that they found some Imperial records from an ancient GC-era Imperial Cruiser, which indicated that the Xenocidal tendencies were introduced by the Ecclesiarchy, not the Emperor. They then promise to restore the Emperor's original vision of an enlightened human species without superstition or enslavement.

The Adeptus Astartes is older than the Ecclesiarchy. You can't tell them some upstart church added something to the MO of the IoM. Or maybe the tau are foolish enough to try. And get laughed off.
If you, a xenoform the Emperor himself didn't advise to let live, held back an Imperial cruiser, wouldn't the Space marines just call for reinforcement to take this Imperial Vessel very violently back into Imperial Custody?

dusara217 wrote:The Tau have already absorbed large populations of humans,

Really?

dusara217 wrote: and, according to Lexicanum, Wiki, and 1D4Chan,

Silly 1d4chan and whacky wikia aren't valid sources. IMO. But maybe I am not alone on this.
Lexi does a nice job, but isn't infallible. If Lexi was your source , why didn't you link to the article? Maybe because Lexi lists the original source and we may not find there what you say?

dusara217 wrote:the Tau are significantly more likely to annex and forcefully absorb a species than to exterminate it.

To use anyone as a Tool of the Etherals. Not because beiing nice.

dusara217 wrote:AFAIK, the only species that the Tau have written off as lost causes are 'Nids and Orkz.

They just haven't written off Eldar and Necrons yet. Humans are close to it if you dare to read these "codices" ... Chaos, is beyond their Horizon so they can't write off what they don't have on the radar.

dusara217 wrote: If the Tau really wanted to convince the Marines that what they were doing would be more beneficial for humanity than what the Imperium was doing, they would just have to introduce the Marines to Gue'Vesa, and/or show them human vassal-states the Tau control.

Gue'vesa? The underhive scum at cultist levels GW used once in a WD article , but dropped the idea? Why would something worse than badly trained, undisciplined PDF convince SM of anything than your Empire and its greater good sucks?
Space marines know the Imperial Guard. Real Soldiers. Loyal. Not turncoats.
What do you think happens if SM, aware of the mess of the HH, are confronted with "traitors to their own species". ? Return to base and bring more friends to kill them all maybe?

And the "vassal states"... there are none. To be more specific: the Necrons may have some, its in their codex. The Tau don't. Feel free to post the Publication and page number where GW wrote about them. A map is ok too.

But please do us a favor and treat the Background Forum as place for Background discussions and the Dakka Fiction Forum as place for personal fiction.
Any OP may hope for supporting posts. To warn of mistakes is support too.
The Space marines are part of 40k for decades. The fact the SM are a member of the group IoM and thus Humans in Space is agreed on? and there is no Eldar SM or Orkz SM or Necron SM or Tyranid SM should be enough to realize the groups in 40k aren't "just there" to fill codices, but really meant as separate factions of Space Elves ( and subgroup of High and dark.. sorry...Craftworld and Dark Elf ), Space Orkz, Space Undead ( who are tomb kings and terminator at once...) and space bugs ( can't identify the Nids as anything else , sorry ) and space Humans and surely space demons are also there. The Tau are part of young upstarts ( subgroup Tau & friends ) and none said ceasefires and temporary alliances are impossible. But the question put forward here was about a Team swap.
Not a typical 40k one, like Emperor - loving - servant of the IoM > chaos worshipping scumbag. No, it has to be something like a Necron Dynasty joining the Eldar because reasons.

This Heresy train is crashing and burning quickly.

It seems as if you are attempting to be as indirectly inflammatory with your post as you can be, and, if not, then I apologize for the misread. If you are doing it intentionally, then I would request that you take such cretinous behavior to whatever website you seem to think you are posting on, as Dakka is not the place for it. Regardless, your arrogance is abrasive, and unfounded, in this case.

Before I start, I will say that I use the wiki and 1D4Chan, not because they are strong sources, but because, when they support the Lexicanum, it lends a small amount of additional credibility to it. Now, on to rebuffs...

It doesn't . And please provide a source,yes?

I don't currently have my cousin's copy of the Taudex on hand, at the moment, so I'll have to resort to other sources.
I'll start here, then go here, a tiny bit here, and last, and most credible, here.
As can be noted in all four of said sources, the Gue-Vesa are (mostly) the descendants of Imperial Guardsmen who turned their coats post-Damocles Crusade.

Unassailable Imperia doesn't exist. The 40K-verse is like any other Universe, one of a rise and fall of Civs and Empires.

No shat, shirlock. I was providing an example that the OP could use for arguments the Tau might have used to turn the SM. Promises =/= reality

OtoH, I doubt your candidates are what you think they are.

They are renegade Space Marine Chapters who never turned to Chaos, nor are there rumors of them turning to Chaos.

CSM And SM really hate each other. If you want to live, you don't step into that fight...
And Space Marines in general, are used to kill xenos. Xenos who interfere with space marine buisness? ..back to the pre-HH times for now and show them how "real space marines" do it.

Don't tell me you're foolish enough to think that the Tau would bugger out of a system when they discovered hostile humans who seem relatively few (in comparison to the numbers seen in the Damocles Crusade).
Also, that depends upon the Chapter we're talking about. Most Space Marines have some sense of honor, and, we have examples of the Blood Angels finding the idea of killing their former Necron allies unsavory, due to fighting alongside them hours past. If that kind of respect extends to bitter enemies, with whom no quarter can be dreamed of being given, then it can most certainly be extended to the Empire with which the Imperium has an unofficial ceasefire.

Some of the first contacts of Humans with the Tau was Rogue Traders. They reported back to the IoM to warn it. Somehow, this Water Caste tricks aren't so good

Right, because a smooth talker is going to be able to convert a bunch of wanton merchants in a couple of days. Most Rogue Traders have undoubtedly encountered smooth-talkers at least as good as the ambassadors of the Water Caste, so I doubt anything but prolonged exposure to such brainwashing conversations would convince a RT to turn his coat.

The Adeptus Astartes is older than the Ecclesiarchy. You can't tell them some upstart church added something to the MO of the IoM. Or maybe the tau are foolish enough to try. And get laughed off.
If you, a xenoform the Emperor himself didn't advise to let live, held back an Imperial cruiser, wouldn't the Space marines just call for reinforcement to take this Imperial Vessel very violently back into Imperial Custody?

It really depends upon the Chapter. Even the Blood Angels, a First Founding Chapter, had their original Imperial Truth ideals corrupted by an Emperor-worshiping cult (as evidenced by the BA Omnibus), what is to stop a (comparatively) young Chapter from having the same occur to it? Also, if you really think that a Water Caste ambassador (legendary for tact and charisma) is just going to spring that onto somebody without hours of conversation and subtle brainwashing to cushion it, then you are sadly mistaken.

To use anyone as a Tool of the Etherals. Not because beiing nice.

I fail to see how that is relevant to my rebuff of a fallacious statement. The Tau are known to only exterminate Orks and Tyranids. He said they exterminated humans too, when, in fact, there is only one (highly unreliable) source that says so, and even the narrator of said source was just making wild conjecture.

But please do us a favor and treat the Background Forum as place for Background discussions and the Dakka Fiction Forum as place for personal fiction.

I would appreciate if you would refrain from tossing around blatant insults before researching the lore you are arguing about.


As for the Vassal States: A vassal state can be determined as any State (aka government) that is subservient to another. For instance, Georgia in the United States of America could be considered a Vassal State pre-Civil War (nowadays, they're more provinces than actual vassal states). The Athenian Empire was composed of dozens of Vassal States, mostly City-States, similar to how the Roman Republic, after conquering a nation(or city)-state created a Vassal State.

Alternatively, a vassal state could be considered a "puppet government". In this sense, virtually every superpower of today has vassal states.

If you wish to call the Tau Empire having vassal states "headcanon", then I direct you to this wondrous website. I could give you more sources, if you like, but don't really have time to comb the internet, I need to get started on my homework.

In which every other Primarch died/went missing.
Age of Apostasy happened because they were weak in M36 because no Primarchs. Also, "Golden Age"? Orks were very close to killing them in M32.

Take a gander, if you please.Also, I was mistaken about the time period. It was 3k years, post-Rebirth.

 dusara217 wrote:
[spoiler]

The Adeptus Astartes is older than the Ecclesiarchy. You can't tell them some upstart church added something to the MO of the IoM. Or maybe the tau are foolish enough to try. And get laughed off.
If you, a xenoform the Emperor himself didn't advise to let live, held back an Imperial cruiser, wouldn't the Space marines just call for reinforcement to take this Imperial Vessel very violently back into Imperial Custody?

It really depends upon the Chapter. Even the Blood Angels, a First Founding Chapter, had their original Imperial Truth ideals corrupted by an Emperor-worshiping cult (as evidenced by the BA Omnibus), what is to stop a (comparatively) young Chapter from having the same occur to it? Also, if you really think that a Water Caste ambassador (legendary for tact and charisma) is just going to spring that onto somebody without hours of conversation and subtle brainwashing to cushion it, then you are sadly mistaken.

Firstly, the notion that Tau somwhow have more knowledge about the Imperium than the Space Marines is laughable. And so it would appear to any Astartes who heard this tiny, insignificant upstart xenos race implying so. Who is this xenos to question the undoubtable ancient truths of the Imperium and Chapter? You can't undo centuries of brainwashing and millennia of dogma and tradition with just a few hours of talk. Besides, most Astartes wouldn't even care if the Ecclessiarchy 'added something' to the Imperium. The Astartes have their own Chapter Cults, they do not follow the teachings of the greater Imperium and Ecclessiarchy.

Secondly, why would the Space Marine even let the Tau talk? Space Marines rarely if ever negotiate with their enemies. What is stopping them from doing their sacred duty and purge the xenos filth? Space Marines are not open to negotiation. At most they will make a very rare temporary alliance with a xenos to fight an even greater common threat, but those alliances are always very temporary, and usually break down into fighting again after the common foe is defeated. Space Marines actually joining the xenos empire has never even been into question in all the fluff, and the very notion is ridiculous.

Space Marines actually joining the xenos empire has never ever been into question in all the fluff

I guess this summarize pretty well everything that has been said in this thread. Sorry OP but there are some fluff shenaningans that just don't work.

You know, Tau fan boys really are the worst.

This fan fiction shames the honourable raven guard legion, whom would have persecuted and comprehensively obliterated these "shadow hunters"

 dusara217 wrote:


It seems as if you are attempting to be as indirectly inflammatory with your post as you can be, and, if not, then I apologize for the misread.

There was nothing indirect or inflammatory. As far as I can tell.

 dusara217 wrote:


If you are doing it intentionally, then I would request that you take such cretinous behavior to whatever website you seem to think you are posting on, as Dakka is not the place for it. Regardless, your arrogance is abrasive, and unfounded, in this case.

I think I know where i am posting on. And you know, my post was neither arrogant nor cretinous.
So maybe, just reply to the points made ?

 dusara217 wrote:

Before I start, I will say that I use the wiki and 1D4Chan, not because they are strong sources, but because, when they support the Lexicanum, it lends a small amount of additional credibility to it. Now, on to rebuffs...

I would still suggest to touch certain sites only with a barge pole, your first picks are full of fanwank.
Its your choice to use digital sources , which may suffer some "non-GW-add-ons" because it isn't possible to check everything.
Mine is/was to buy a lot of Publications from 3rd edition to 6th ed, because I like printed Material and won't expect premium quality literature from GW.
If somthing smells fishy, I would like to look it up myself ( at the original source ). So yes, you will get requests of "where may I find.." from me.

 dusara217 wrote:

I don't currently have my cousin's copy of the Taudex on hand, at the moment, so I'll have to resort to other sources.
I'll start here, then go here, a tiny bit here, and last, and most credible, here.
As can be noted in all four of said sources, the Gue-Vesa are (mostly) the descendants of Imperial Guardsmen who turned their coats post-Damocles Crusade.

There is your Problem. Link 1 and 2 are to 100% fan made stuff, some bits mixed up to fit a story. Link 3 is a modelling project and has at least some ground to stand on ( WD article ) , and link 4 is to similar to one of the first 2 so I would suspect someone wrote parts of both. Basically they are all either outdated or made up from re-interpretations of the fluff.
The most recent installment ( 2013 ) to tell the story is " Warzone: Damocles " by GW themselves. It has the same story as always, The Imperials leave and there isn't anyone left behind. Another one could be C:Tau.
The idea of Troops left behind was also more about some who didn't make it back to their units and never about IG turning. Because the Imperials had the Space Port at the last stage and could move whatever they wanted.

Currently : Gue'la = humans and Gue'vesa = human helpers. They have names for Marines and robots too... But, there is no military in a Tau dex that isn't Tau or Kroot or Vespids. IMHO , GW didn't want to run with conversions and ideas as much as they did once,
so anything beyond the current line of official citadel figures isn't going to get fluff.

 dusara217 wrote:

No shat, shirlock. I was providing an example that the OP could use for arguments the Tau might have used to turn the SM. Promises =/= reality

SM =/= dumb.

Why should the OP get into more trouble with unbelievable arguments?
Shouldn't we be his QA , and offer something believable?

 dusara217 wrote:

I fail to see how that is relevant to my rebuff of a fallacious statement. The Tau are known to only exterminate Orks and Tyranids. He said they exterminated humans too, when, in fact, there is only one (highly unreliable) source that says so, and even the narrator of said source was just making wild conjecture.

Codex Tau , 6th ed , page 10. They don't "only exterminate Orks and Tyranids".

The source you call unreliable, is a RTS game the company known as Gamesworkshop advertised and promoted ( in WD ) and, didn't just use the main theme in their shops... GW had its Background "protected" by their fluff guy IIRC ( WD article ). Now, I am not a fan of him, cause IMO his work doens't show the results I would like to see, but DoW is a licensed Product with the blessings of GW. GW even added 1 new weapon to the Tau arsenal from the Computer-game to the TT. Back in the Days
pre-shovelware GW wasn't uninvolved... But , just to prevent any misreading, a RTS is open ended and aimed at multiple playable factions so we are looking at something possible in GW's POV. They didn't request a change...

 dusara217 wrote:
I would appreciate if you would refrain from tossing around blatant insults before researching the lore you are arguing about.

Insults? Thought my line of text was ok...
Please remember: It was your idea to take fanwank over established background of several decades.
I did my research for about 17 years. And I am willing to find out something new, or have another look.

 dusara217 wrote:


As for the Vassal States: A vassal state can be determined as any State (aka government) that is subservient to another. For instance, Georgia in the United States of America could be considered a Vassal State pre-Civil War (nowadays, they're more provinces than actual vassal states). The Athenian Empire was composed of dozens of Vassal States, mostly City-States, similar to how the Roman Republic, after conquering a nation(or city)-state created a Vassal State.

Alternatively, a vassal state could be considered a "puppet government". In this sense, virtually every superpower of today has vassal states.

Spare your keyboard the stress. I know what vassals are. But you seem hell bent on replies to something i didn't say.
My point was: GW used the term "Vassal" with Necrons. Necrons only actually. It wasn't my personal idea or an attempt to deny any Non-Necron a Vassal.

 dusara217 wrote:

If you wish to call the Tau Empire having vassal states "headcanon", then I direct you to this wondrous website. I could give you more sources, if you like, but don't really have time to comb the internet, I need to get started on my homework.

Don't let me keep you from your homework.

At the end of the day Space Marines are actually intelligent and knowledgeable about the enemies of the Imperium.

The Tau have already made their intentions of subjugating the human race clear with their initial contact and invasion of human worlds. There is no reason to believe their stance has changed and as such they are potential threat to humanity.

A Space Marine suffers not the alien to live and in this case as they threaten the vision of their Emperor, they would put the Tau to death.

A Space marine furthermore would not allow themselves to integrated into a culture that is not their own. Each chapter has traditions, a culture, a history. It is the Chapter Master's duty to see the body lives, it is the Chaplains duty to ensure the mind does not waver.

This Fan Chapter is bad as a result.

@1hadhq

Some good points, the only thing I'd like to point out is that there is indeed Gue'vesa in IA3. They are the remnant of the Taros PDF. The planetary governor decided that fighting for the Tau left him some control. There is also reference to them using the same tactic on other worlds.

Just a nit pick.

Shadow's Hunters



Chapter Name: Shadow's Hunters!
Status: Labeled Heretics by some, though still technically loyal
Color Scheme: Black, Orange Shoulder Pads, Orange Details
Icon: Black or White Falcon
Battle Cry: For the Greater Good!
Founding:22
Primarch: Corax
Genetic Mutations:low psychic abilities
Home World: T'gris
Fortress Monastery: Destroyed
Active Marines: 847
Recruitment: Mostly from Gue'vesa, also others.
Chapter Master: Ra'van Al'la
Title of Chapter Master: Shas'o
Sworn Enemies: Black Legion,
Rival Chapters: Iron Hands,
Chapter Relics: Corax's Final Gift: A vial of uncorrupted Primachs Geneseed.
Perception of Humanity: Regards the Imperium as misguided. Believes that all humans serve a part in the workings of the Imperium and that all (except those tainted by chaos) should be forgiven and given second, third etc chances.Aims to convert as many humans as possible to the Greater Good!

The Shadow's Hunters spent many centuries fighting on behalf of the Imperium. Many victories were claimed by the Chapter, but not without cost. The Shadow's Hunters valued human life, and in time, they they clashed with the Inquisition. For some time, their humanism earned them a reputation as saviors to many worlds, but when they fought off a Chaos incursion on their recruiting world of T'gris, the clashes came to a head. After slaughtering the last of the cultists in a decades-long war, an Inquisitor declared the world Exterminatus. What was left of the Chapter was sent on a penitent Crusade in the western-most reaches of the galaxy. For fifty years, they spilled the blood of traitors and heretics, xenos and daemons... and then they were claimed by a warp storm. Their ships were spat out onto an unpopulated world on the Eastern fringe, and the gravity of the world pulled their warships into crash-landings. Without resources to leave and their chaplain dead, the Shadow's Hunter were left in the most ignaminous position a Space Marine could be left in- they farmed.

For a hundred years, nearly a thousand of the Emperor's Chosen were forced to till earth and herd animals to provide their own sustenance. The world itself lacked any remotely heavy metals- there was no way off. In time, though, they had a brief turn of luck. Other settlers arrived on the world- human colonists from a region that was unknown to the Imperium. The Marines helped the colonists, taught them the truth of the Emperor, and protected them from the beasts that inhabited the world. For fifty years, this peace held... and the Inquisition came. When the head Inquisitor determined the humans there were too mutated to be allowed to live, the Shadow's Hunters fought back.

Unfortunately for the Inquisition, they were not the only force to arrive at this world. Tau scouts had detected several strange presences, and due to their disconnect from the warp, the strange gravitational fields did not affect the Tau warships. As the Marines fought a losing battle with the Inquisition, the Tau arrived in orbit and opened fire on the Imperial vessels. After deploying troops against their foes, the Tau warriors encountered the Space Marines attacking the same enemy.

Initial encounters were tense, but both groups realized they shared an enemy. The Water Caste agreed to leave the world to the Shadow's Hunters, but kept up dialog. In time, the Hunters began to view the mutants on their world as their dependents, and trade with the Tau showed them that perhaps the Inquisition was wrong about all xenos as well. A working relationship developed between the two groups, and slowly Tau influence spread through the world, including into the Chapter.

DakkaDakka - Warhammer 40000, Flames of War, Warmachine and Warhammer Forums
ForumGalleryArticlesVideoPodcastsHobby BlogsStore FinderPlayer FinderArmy PainterLogoutEmberlordofFire8
Forum Tools
Thread Tools
Private Messages - Switch Theme

Tau/Human Space Marines, part 3 [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
Forum Index » 40K Background
Author Message

[Post New] 2015/09/02 02:57:33 Subject: Tau/Human Space Marines, part 3Quote Multiquote [Up] [ALERT MOD]


EmpNortonIIMade in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife


Gallery Votes: 0
Posts: 1047


Here is the new backstory, thanks to EmpNorton it has been revised.


Shadow's Hunters



Chapter Name: Shadow's Hunters!
Status: Labeled Heretics by some, though still technically loyal
Color Scheme: Black, Orange Shoulder Pads, Orange Details
Icon: Black or White Falcon
Battle Cry: For the Greater Good!
Founding:22
Primarch: Corax
Genetic Mutations:low psychic abilities
Home World: T'gris
Fortress Monastery: Destroyed
Active Marines: 847
Recruitment: Mostly from Gue'vesa, also others.
Chapter Master: Ra'van Al'la
Title of Chapter Master: Shas'o
Sworn Enemies: Black Legion,
Rival Chapters: Iron Hands,
Chapter Relics: Corax's Final Gift: A vial of uncorrupted Primachs Geneseed.
Perception of Humanity: Regards the Imperium as misguided. Believes that all humans serve a part in the workings of the Imperium and that all (except those tainted by chaos) should be forgiven and given second, third etc chances.Aims to convert as many humans as possible to the Greater Good!

HISTORY:

Shadow's Hunters (as in: the hunter's of shadow) are a Space Marine chapter created during the 22 found to help enforce the Blockade of the Eye of Terror.
They came into conflict with the Iron Hands after the Exterminatus was declared on a battalion of Imperial Guard, just to keep the position of a Demi Company of Iron Hands secure. The argument escalated until Gethur Soulfist, Captain of the 3rd company of Shadows Hunters, attacked, and killed, an Iron Hands battle brother. The Shadows Hunters then fled, leaving the Eye of Terror and embarking on a Crusade across the Galaxy to redeem themselves in the Eyes of the Emperor.

The Shadow's Hunters spent many centuries fighting on behalf of the Imperium. Many victories were claimed by the Chapter, but not without cost. The Shadow's Hunters valued human life, and in time, they they clashed with the Inquisition. For some time, their humanism earned them a reputation as saviors to many worlds... and then they were claimed by a warp storm.

Their ships were spat out onto T'Gris V, an unpopulated world on the Eastern fringe, and the gravity of the world pulled their warships into crash-landings. Without resources to leave and their chaplain dead, the Shadow's Hunter were left in the most ignaminous position a Space Marine could be left in- they farmed. For a hundred years, nearly a thousand of the Emperor's Chosen were forced to till earth and he rd animals to provide their own sustenance. The world itself lacked any remotely heavy metals- there was no way off. In time, though, they had a brief turn of luck. Other settlers arrived on the world- human colonists from a region that was unknown to the Imperium. The Marines helped the colonists, taught them the truth of the Emperor, and protected them from the beasts that inhabited the world. For fifty years, this peace held.

It was many years later, that the planet came under attack by the Last Sons of Tagrion, a warband of Chaos Space Marines. The inscription on the Rock of Tolan tells of the battle that ensured. Thousand and thousands of Chaos Cultists, marines, Summoned Daemons , and unholy machines ran rampant across the sands of T'gris.
Unfortunately for Chaos, they were not the only force to arrive at this world. Tau scouts had detected several strange presences, and due to their disconnect from the warp, the strange gravitational fields did not affect the Tau warships. As the Marines fought a losing battle with Chaos, the Tau arrived in orbit and opened fire on, destroying many of the demented, unholy vessels orbiting T'Gris. After deploying troops against their foes, the Tau warriors encountered the Space Marines attacking the same enemy.
Continued

"The cresent shaped ships drop upon the battlefield, weapons firing repeatedly. The heretics, surprised by this new shift in their sure victory, where slow to reconise the new threat, and many where cut down by blasts from the ships, or else quickly dispatched by our brothers. Those who survived the first onslaught stood in shock as all they had accomplished in the name of their dark gods crumbled. The battle was over within minutes."

Captain Devan, 6th Company.



"As the last cultist lay dying, the ships descended. The smallest [actually an Orca dropship] landed just meters from our Chapter Master. The bay dors opend, and from its hold came Xenos. The foremost, obviously the leader, halted, and without signal, the rest formed colums behind him. He spoke, surprisingly, in near perfect Low Gothic. 'I am Por'ui T'ren Resh'ur, envoy from the venerable Shas'el Kel'shan An'ir, Veteran of the 1 sphere expansion and She Who Walks Alone."
At this our [Chapter] Master replied: "We are Shadow's Hunter, descendants of Corvus Corax, and Space Marines of our noble Father, the God Emperor of Mankind. And thus, in the course of a fortnight, an alliance was forge that would change the course of our history."
Sergeant Toren , later Tau'ren.

The Water Caste agreed to leave the world to the Shadow's Hunters, but kept up dialog. In time, the Hunters began to view the on their world as their dependents, and trade with the Tau showed them that perhaps the Inquisition was wrong about all xenos as well. A working relationship developed between the two groups, and slowly Tau influence spread through the world, including into the Chapter.

In time, the Shadow's Hunters, thanks to the Tau, where able to rebuild there fleet, and became the true Space Marine chapter they had been.

Mate you really need to keep the entirety of what EmpNortonII has done for you and maybe add in some of your own dialogue if you're keen on it but:

time, the Shadow's Hunters, thanks to the Tau, where able to rebuild there fleet, and became the true Space Marine chapter they had been.

Stuff like this ... if they're allied with Tau then they're never going to be a "true" Space Marine chapter. They're heretics, they'll be cut down without question by any Imperial force.

Doesn't mean that in their own minds they're loyal but unless they were to turn their guns on the Tau once they were able to then the Imperium will kill them to bits.

You have two options as far as I see it:

1) They're loyal Marines under Tau mind control
2) They've gone renegade and allied with Tau but they still believe in the Emperor/Imperium. So they won't seek out a fight with them, won't take arms against them maybe and won't help Tau fight them but they will against other Xenos and Chaos.

I dunno really, I'm not averse to something different but it's got to make sense to me in the context of the setting.

I've got a homebrew Marine chapter and whilst I want to do different things with them - mine are Loyalist, they have to do things that are consistent with precedents set by other Loyalist chapters.

well tacticaly there is a problem. space marine ships.....

a Tau warship lacks the true warp drives, so there greatest weapon speed is gone, there not the over engineered, thickly armored assault ships the space marine designs are for breaching defences.

Space marines lacking both speed and ships that can weather fire from planetery defences and provide orbital support are pretty much well need a entire new attack stratagy

 Psienesis wrote:
It is likely that the Earth Caste would, eventually, be able to reverse-engineer damaged suits of Power Armor in order to fashion new parts to repair the still-existing suits or to fabricate new suits. Same with bolters and bolt-guns and the rest of the standard SM kit, they're not *that* advanced, really.

What is less-likely is the Tau being able to figure out Astartes physiology and biology in time to recreate the drugs all Astartes need to keep their additional organs and biological systems from getting out of whack and mutating to a point where it either kills or seriously messes-up the Astartes himself. Even with an Apothecary present, the resources to make those drugs might not be.

I think your post sums up the Space Marine Auxiliaries chapter well. It's not impossible, but it's really really unlikely. The Tau can and indeed have made use of humans in their army, yet converting a Space Marine is a very different matter as unlike regular Imperial citizens they're warrior monks who are only corrupted by the powerful taint of Chaos.

I'm mostly wondering why the OP even bothered to post here, it doesn't really seem like he cares what people have to say on the subject. Any conflicts that his story has with the current background is pretty much ignored by him.

That said, why was the entire chapter in a single location the first place?

How did their entire Reclusiam perish in the crash landing?

What about telepathic communication? Or did their Librarius and ship psykers all die coincidentally too? And their ship communication systems all happened to fail as well?

So the serfs and tech marines also perished correct? No chance of salvaging the MAASIVE amount of resources on their crashed ships right? They just completely forget about them because story.

What about these human colonists ships? Those don't work suddenly either? Of course, I'm not sure why I bothered asking. And of course their engineers, scientists, and communicators also are not present.

For what possible reason are there suddenly a force of Chaos Space Marines attacking a planet like this one? What Chaos Marine force would look at a planet with zero resources, tiny population, out in the middle of no where, with a massive Space Marine force on it. It makes zero sense.

What about the Chapter's home world? You know that place where they originally came a chapter and have a force stationed to train new recruits? That's gone too?

So many holes.

 EmberlordofFire8 wrote:

Here is the new backstory, thanks to EmpNorton it has been revised.


Shadow's Hunters



Chapter Name: Shadow's Hunters!
Status: Labeled Heretics by some, though still technically loyal
Color Scheme: Black, Orange Shoulder Pads, Orange Details
Icon: Black or White Falcon
Battle Cry: For the Greater Good!
Founding:22
Primarch: Corax
Genetic Mutations:low psychic abilities
Home World: T'gris
Fortress Monastery: Destroyed
Active Marines: 847
Recruitment: Mostly from Gue'vesa, also others.
Chapter Master: Ra'van Al'la
Title of Chapter Master: Shas'o
Sworn Enemies: Black Legion,
Rival Chapters: Iron Hands,
Chapter Relics: Corax's Final Gift: A vial of uncorrupted Primachs Geneseed.
Perception of Humanity: Regards the Imperium as misguided. Believes that all humans serve a part in the workings of the Imperium and that all (except those tainted by chaos) should be forgiven and given second, third etc chances.Aims to convert as many humans as possible to the Greater Good!

HISTORY:

Shadow's Hunters (as in: the hunter's of shadow) are a Space Marine chapter created during the 22 found to help enforce the Blockade of the Eye of Terror.
They came into conflict with the Iron Hands after the Exterminatus was declared on a battalion of Imperial Guard, just to keep the position of a Demi Company of Iron Hands secure. The argument escalated until Gethur Soulfist, Captain of the 3rd company of Shadows Hunters, attacked, and killed, an Iron Hands battle brother. The Shadows Hunters then fled, leaving the Eye of Terror and embarking on a Crusade across the Galaxy to redeem themselves in the Eyes of the Emperor.

The Shadow's Hunters spent many centuries fighting on behalf of the Imperium. Many victories were claimed by the Chapter, but not without cost. The Shadow's Hunters valued human life, and in time, they they clashed with the Inquisition. For some time, their humanism earned them a reputation as saviors to many worlds... and then they were claimed by a warp storm.

Their ships were spat out onto T'Gris V, an unpopulated world on the Eastern fringe, and the gravity of the world pulled their warships into crash-landings. Without resources to leave and their chaplain dead, the Shadow's Hunter were left in the most ignaminous position a Space Marine could be left in- they farmed. For a hundred years, nearly a thousand of the Emperor's Chosen were forced to till earth and he rd animals to provide their own sustenance. The world itself lacked any remotely heavy metals- there was no way off. In time, though, they had a brief turn of luck. Other settlers arrived on the world- human colonists from a region that was unknown to the Imperium. The Marines helped the colonists, taught them the truth of the Emperor, and protected them from the beasts that inhabited the world. For fifty years, this peace held.

It was many years later, that the planet came under attack by the Last Sons of Tagrion, a warband of Chaos Space Marines. The inscription on the Rock of Tolan tells of the battle that ensured. Thousand and thousands of Chaos Cultists, marines, Summoned Daemons , and unholy machines ran rampant across the sands of T'gris.
Unfortunately for Chaos, they were not the only force to arrive at this world. Tau scouts had detected several strange presences, and due to their disconnect from the warp, the strange gravitational fields did not affect the Tau warships. As the Marines fought a losing battle with Chaos, the Tau arrived in orbit and opened fire on, destroying many of the demented, unholy vessels orbiting T'Gris. After deploying troops against their foes, the Tau warriors encountered the Space Marines attacking the same enemy.
Continued

"The cresent shaped ships drop upon the battlefield, weapons firing repeatedly. The heretics, surprised by this new shift in their sure victory, where slow to reconise the new threat, and many where cut down by blasts from the ships, or else quickly dispatched by our brothers. Those who survived the first onslaught stood in shock as all they had accomplished in the name of their dark gods crumbled. The battle was over within minutes."

Captain Devan, 6th Company.



"As the last cultist lay dying, the ships descended. The smallest [actually an Orca dropship] landed just meters from our Chapter Master. The bay dors opend, and from its hold came Xenos. The foremost, obviously the leader, halted, and without signal, the rest formed colums behind him. He spoke, surprisingly, in near perfect Low Gothic. 'I am Por'ui T'ren Resh'ur, envoy from the venerable Shas'el Kel'shan An'ir, Veteran of the 1 sphere expansion and She Who Walks Alone."
At this our [Chapter] Master replied: "We are Shadow's Hunter, descendants of Corvus Corax, and Space Marines of our noble Father, the God Emperor of Mankind. And thus, in the course of a fortnight, an alliance was forge that would change the course of our history."
Sergeant Toren , later Tau'ren.

The Water Caste agreed to leave the world to the Shadow's Hunters, but kept up dialog. In time, the Hunters began to view the on their world as their dependents, and trade with the Tau showed them that perhaps the Inquisition was wrong about all xenos as well. A working relationship developed between the two groups, and slowly Tau influence spread through the world, including into the Chapter.

In time, the Shadow's Hunters, thanks to the Tau, where able to rebuild there fleet, and became the true Space Marine chapter they had been.

Much improved.
Space Marines being saved by the Tau and therefore owing a debt to them is certainly possible. Such a Chapter could maintain relatively close ties and even an informal alliance with the Tau. IIRC there are several examples of Chapters having such relations with Eldar Craftworlds, so why not with the Tau? Of course, such a Chapter will be watched very closely by the Inquisition and monitored to see they do not become too deviant and stray into heresy. Space Marines have a lot of freedom in what they believe, but the tolerance of the Inquisition does have limits even for Astartes.
But no Space Marine would ever actually join the Tau Empire or take orders from the Tau. Space Marines don't even take orders from the Imperium, and taking orders from xenos is heresy and would lead to swift exterminatus.

Also, I would change the enemy the Tau save the Marines from to Orks or Tyranids, because the Tau are not supposed to have encountered Chaos much yet, and they would be highly unlikely to attack their enemy's enemy on sight like that. They would be more likely to help out the Chaos forces. Orks or Tyranids on the other hand, are known enemies of Tau like the Space Marines, but the Orks and Tyranids are regarded as even worse enemies because there is even less negotiation possible with them. So Tau could very well fight alongside Marines against this common foe.

 Ignatius wrote:
I'm mostly wondering why the OP even bothered to post here, it doesn't really seem like he cares what people have to say on the subject. Any conflicts that his story has with the current background is pretty much ignored by him.

That said, why was the entire chapter in a single location the first place?

How did their entire Reclusiam perish in the crash landing?

What about telepathic communication? Or did their Librarius and ship psykers all die coincidentally too? And their ship communication systems all happened to fail as well?

So the serfs and tech marines also perished correct? No chance of salvaging the MAASIVE amount of resources on their crashed ships right? They just completely forget about them because story.

What about these human colonists ships? Those don't work suddenly either? Of course, I'm not sure why I bothered asking. And of course their engineers, scientists, and communicators also are not present.

For what possible reason are there suddenly a force of Chaos Space Marines attacking a planet like this one? What Chaos Marine force would look at a planet with zero resources, tiny population, out in the middle of no where, with a massive Space Marine force on it. It makes zero sense.

What about the Chapter's home world? You know that place where they originally came a chapter and have a force stationed to train new recruits? That's gone too?

So many holes.

Well, not all Librarians are Telepaths. Unless a Chapter has a high number of psykers, then it's not going to have many Librarians. Engineers and scientists? Those are called "Adeptus Mechanicus" in the setting. They would not likely be present or, if they were, would be in very small numbers and, also, vehemently anti-Xeno.

The forces of Chaos will attack a seemingly-insignificant planet because of ritualistic reasons, or in order to take captives and slaves for rites dedicated to the Dark Gods. Perhaps the planet is currently in some arcane alignment with a star found within the Eye of Terror which only happens once every thousand years, and now begins a ritual that will elevate someone to Princedom. It's Chaos, logic has no place here.

Fleet-based Chapters exist. Not all Chapters have homeworlds.

why was the whole chapter in one place?

Penitent crusade.

how did their I tire Recucalism perish in the crash landing

It was a CRASH landing.

What about telepathetic communication

Genetic Mutations: LOW PSICHIC ABILITIES.

So Serfs and Techmarines also perish?

Mostly.

What about human colonist ships?

Had been gone for so long, they were just shells.

For what possibele reason would chaos ......

Why does chaos do anything?

What about chapter home world

Not all chapters have homeworlds. Some are fleet based.

Ember

 EmberlordofFire8 wrote:

why was the whole chapter in one place?

Penitent crusade.

For what? If it was a penitent crusade, they obviously can't be a perfect chapter.

how did their I tire Recucalism perish in the crash landing

It was a CRASH landing.

And everyone else got off fine? The Chaplains and any potential Chaplain candidates were all in one place?

What about telepathetic communication

Genetic Mutations: LOW PSICHIC ABILITIES.

Still need Astropaths. Unless [insert convenient explanation here]

So Serfs and Techmarines also perish?

Mostly.

So there's still some left.

What about human colonist ships?

Had been gone for so long, they were just shells.

What had stripped them? Things can be left as long as the environment doesn't harm them that much, and the Imperium builds to last in all but the most harsh environments.

For what possibele reason would chaos ......

Why does chaos do anything?

Doesn't really answer the question. Only followers of Malal do things for the lulz. Not even Tzeentch do things randomly.

As I said, much better to change Chaos to Orks. Orks are everywhere and fight stuff just for fun, so no excuse needed.

Chaos is not supposed to operate anywhere close to Tau space, and the Tau have no to little experience with it.
They would not even be able to tell Imperial and Chaos humans apart, in the same way humans can't tell Eldar and Dark Eldar apart.


So really, do not use Chaos, it just makes no sense at all.

Changes needed to make this believable:
- Change Chaos to something like Orks or 'Nid Splinter Fleet
- Make it so that the Marines were trying to repair their ships when the Tau found them
- Keep the Reclusiam around, and make it the motivating factor behind them going heretical. For instance, make it so that the Master of Sanctity was becoming increasingly radical, and was trying to lessen the "purge the Xenos" attitude of the Chapter.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Ignatius wrote:
I'm mostly wondering why the OP even bothered to post here, it doesn't really seem like he cares what people have to say on the subject. Any conflicts that his story has with the current background is pretty much ignored by him.

That said, why was the entire chapter in a single location the first place?

How did their entire Reclusiam perish in the crash landing?

What about telepathic communication? Or did their Librarius and ship psykers all die coincidentally too? And their ship communication systems all happened to fail as well?

So the serfs and tech marines also perished correct? No chance of salvaging the MAASIVE amount of resources on their crashed ships right? They just completely forget about them because story.

What about these human colonists ships? Those don't work suddenly either? Of course, I'm not sure why I bothered asking. And of course their engineers, scientists, and communicators also are not present.

For what possible reason are there suddenly a force of Chaos Space Marines attacking a planet like this one? What Chaos Marine force would look at a planet with zero resources, tiny population, out in the middle of no where, with a massive Space Marine force on it. It makes zero sense.

What about the Chapter's home world? You know that place where they originally came a chapter and have a force stationed to train new recruits? That's gone too?

So many holes.

Well, not all Librarians are Telepaths. Unless a Chapter has a high number of psykers, then it's not going to have many Librarians. Engineers and scientists? Those are called "Adeptus Mechanicus" in the setting. They would not likely be present or, if they were, would be in very small numbers and, also, vehemently anti-Xeno.

The forces of Chaos will attack a seemingly-insignificant planet because of ritualistic reasons, or in order to take captives and slaves for rites dedicated to the Dark Gods. Perhaps the planet is currently in some arcane alignment with a star found within the Eye of Terror which only happens once every thousand years, and now begins a ritual that will elevate someone to Princedom. It's Chaos, logic has no place here.

Fleet-based Chapters exist. Not all Chapters have homeworlds.

I'm aware not all chapters have home worlds and some are fleet based but I didn't recall seeing it anywhere in his story so I addressed it.

Also aware not all librarians are telepaths, but fleets have telepaths on them to communicate... That was the direction of the question.

Engineers and scientists part came from the human colonists that came to the world after the Space Marines- I know what the Adeptus Mechanicus is.

Logic surely has a place in Chaos- as I highly doubt any war and would survive 10,000 years without some form of it. I'm fine with Chaos attacking the planet but that's going to be his story, there needs to be some sort of reasoning behind it.

The were more refugees than colonists, and STILL won't tell me, or any of the rest of the chapter, where they came from (little blighted)

Anyways, I'm not criticizing your comments, they help me refine the story.

A quick question: in the 41st millennium, what has happened to Queen Elisabeth II, as there is a planet called Birmingham.

Bye!

 EmberlordofFire8 wrote:
A quick question: in the 41st millennium, what has happened to Queen Elisabeth II, as there is a planet called Birmingham.

More Fluff!

Shadows Hunters Chapter Organization:

Chapter Command:

Chapter Master Ra'van Al'la
7 Honor Guard
600 Serfs and Servitors 

ARMORY
Galenus Sirena, Master of the Arsenal

5 Techmarines
43 Techservitors

5 Predetors
10 Vindecators
3 Whirlwinds
2 Land Raiders

APOTECARIUM
Agran He'nan, high apothecarius.

9 Apothecarii

LIBARIUM
Althan Brightheart, Scriptor Magister

2 Epistolarii
6 Codier
12 Lexicanii
28 Acolytes

FLEET
3 Attack Cruisers
1 Battleship (The Last Kiss of the Dawn Knight)
36 Thunderhawks





1st Company

Captain Al'tan
Defender of T'gris

46 Veterans
1 Dreadnaught


2nd Company

Captain Tehren,
He Who Walks Alone

2 ten man Tactical Squads
4 five man Tactical Squads
4 Assault Squads
2 Devastator Squads

3 Dreadnaughts


3rd Company (dammed company)

Captain Gethur Soulfist,
the Fallen Saint

24 Tactical Space Marines
3 Assault Marines
4 Devastators

This company, responsible for The Shattering, has not been allowed to recruit
new Marines. Instead, it serves as a reminder of the past.


4th Company

Captain Aladia,
Commander of the Fleet

2 ten man Tactical Squads
4 five man Tactical Squads
4 Assault Squads
2 Devastator Squads

6 Dreadnaughts


5th Company

Captain Ember,
the Everburning

2 ten man Tactical Squads
4 five man Tactical Squads
4 Assault Squads
2 Devastator Squads

1 Dreadnaught 


6th Company

Captain To'van

2 ten man Tactical Squads
4 five man Tactical Squads
4 Assault Squads
2 Devastator Squads

9 Dreadnaughts


7th Company

Captain Urazan

2 ten man Tactical Squads
4 five man Tactical Squads
4 Assault Squads
2 Devastator Squads

1 Dreadnaught 


9th Company

Captain Gunai

2 ten man Tactical Squads
4 five man Tactical Squads
4 Assault Squads
2 Devastator Squads

0 Dreadnaughts

10th Company

Captain Locaha

Scout troops



Shadows Hunters do not use company colors, instead, veterans are marked with a gold border (on shoulder pads) and are mixed with normal tactical squads to provide experience, until inducted into the first company.
       Only the most venerable of all sergeants may carry the chapter badge, as a tribute to fallen brothers, and so nearly all marines have a blank left shoulder pad.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS: see what I did with the 5th company captain

Protip, when you call out yourself as a self-insert space marine captain...it is nowhere near as cool as you might think it is.

Logic surely has a place in Chaos- as I highly doubt any war and would survive 10,000 years without some form of it. I'm fine with Chaos attacking the planet but that's going to be his story, there needs to be some sort of reasoning behind it.

It has a logic, but the logic is not one that sane mines should contemplate. When the Dark Powers direct you to a world and tell you to drown it in fire and blood, you don't ask "Why?" (unless you wanted immortality as a Chaos Spawn).

Nah, I just forgot the name of my 5 th company captain.





It's Arax, the Everburning.