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OP....lol yeah thats the GW buisness model...now if only everybody could afford that.

I could play a Skyhammer list with Smashfether and 3 Fire Raptors and Draigo with Loth and grav Centurions. I could.

But I won't, because I don't enjoy feeling like a total sociopathic WAAC "my fun is greater than your fun" toolbag when I go against anything but a Canoptek Harvest Decurion or Scatbikes and Wraithknights. I'm just lucky I happen to have picked Space Marines way back in 3rd when I was 15 and didn't know the first thing about the game, so I can run a fluffy TAC list and still do okay against most.

 Lord Corellia wrote:

Gwaihirsbrother wrote:

 DarthSpader wrote:
8: lie to who ever else you live with about the actual cost. Mumble something about a sale or whatever or better yet just smuggle it in like old fashioned liquor bootlegger.

Shhh. Now you're stepping over the line. Can we get this thread locked and this post edited?

How so?? Many times my roommate has asked what I paid for something and the response I get after telling him is "oh, WOOOW that's a lot of money for that sort of thing." and when he tries launching into a lecture I firmly remind him that paying my half of the rent, bills, etc has never EVER been an issue.

So now I generally bring it into the house when he's not there or not paying attention. Or hidden in a bag with other stuff. Just to avoid the eye-roll and argument.

It was meant tongue in cheek. Not actually calling for it to be locked. I can identify (uncomfortably so) with that portion of the post. Looks like you do as well.

6: provide plastic, finger print and deed to house to Gw inventory drone

I'm just waiting for them to make a companion cube style inventory drone that you can just keep in your home at all times... It'll even taser you every time you forget to buy the newest kit D:

No no, you got it all wrong.

The key is to learn to forge the narrative...

 Tigramans wrote:
No no, you got it all wrong.

The key is to learn to forge the narrative...

The narrative of the brave dollars deep striking into the register of your local GW store to save the world of Kirbius' Yachtus from the evil forces of the Repossessed?

Gwaihirsbrother wrote:

 Lord Corellia wrote:

Gwaihirsbrother wrote:

 DarthSpader wrote:
8: lie to who ever else you live with about the actual cost. Mumble something about a sale or whatever or better yet just smuggle it in like old fashioned liquor bootlegger.

Shhh. Now you're stepping over the line. Can we get this thread locked and this post edited?

How so?? Many times my roommate has asked what I paid for something and the response I get after telling him is "oh, WOOOW that's a lot of money for that sort of thing." and when he tries launching into a lecture I firmly remind him that paying my half of the rent, bills, etc has never EVER been an issue.

So now I generally bring it into the house when he's not there or not paying attention. Or hidden in a bag with other stuff. Just to avoid the eye-roll and argument.

It was meant tongue in cheek. Not actually calling for it to be locked. I can identify (uncomfortably so) with that portion of the post. Looks like you do as well.

Every last mothersomething in this thread can relate and identify. OP has pushed the "DON'T PRESS ME" button of shame and everyone is equally guilty. I know I am.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

The narrative of the brave dollars deep striking into the register of your local GW store to save the world of Kirbius' Yachtus from the evil forces of the Repossessed?

Close enough

 Tigramans wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

The narrative of the brave dollars deep striking into the register of your local GW store to save the world of Kirbius' Yachtus from the evil forces of the Repossessed?

Close enough

Needs more fake Latin.

If my codex has only pencils and rubber bands, what are you suggesting I bring to that gun fight?

Didn't you ever make a slingshot crossbow in primary school, Ashi?

Seriously, though, I wish my opponents would learn to play. I consistently beat them with Sisters.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Didn't you ever make a slingshot crossbow in primary school, Ashi?

Seriously, though, I wish my opponents would learn to play. I consistently beat them with Sisters.

Clearly they need to buy more Necron decurion. Think... what would Kirby do? (WWKD)

Yoyoyo wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
Getting along with your opponent really doesn't help in that sort of situation.

Losing can be fun. Matches that are one-sided because of armies or lists, not so much.

When you set up the game, isn't "balance" one of the major points to check off with your opponent?

Your opponet has scatter eldar or 5 knights and you have an army weak against them. How do you check balance with your opponent, other then make him buy a different army.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Didn't you ever make a slingshot crossbow in primary school, Ashi?

Seriously, though, I wish my opponents would learn to play. I consistently beat them with Sisters.

Sisters are not terrible, they are just incredibly monobuild.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Didn't you ever make a slingshot crossbow in primary school, Ashi?

Seriously, though, I wish my opponents would learn to play. I consistently beat them with Sisters.

Sisters are not terrible, they are just incredibly monobuild.

Agreed. St Celestine is a beast of a model, value is dripping off the base. And I would take the exorcists in any army, d6 48" str 8 ap1? Yes please! For comparison, a tri-las pred costs 140 for 3 shots, ssame range, +1 str, -1 ap but it cannot move as it's 3 weapons and it'll snapfire. It also has same BS, AV all around so it is pretty comparable. Now the exorcist costs less than that and has an average of 3.5 shots which are already more than the tri-las, and can also move and fire on top of it. Really really great tank. Like really.

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Agreed. St Celestine is a beast of a model, value is dripping off the base. And I would take the exorcists in any army, really great tank. Like really.

Agreed that they are good, but St Celestine often just sucks up S6+ shots until she goes down, then does the same again. T3 really sucks on an expensive model like her.

And while I like my Exorcists they could do with being less random, like 3-4 shots instead of a d6 roll. You can never be sure what it'll do - will it fire one missile at those Terminators or six at the Rhino with one hull point left?

Spetulhu wrote:
T3 really sucks on an expensive model like her.

Dark Eldar characters say 'hi'.

Spetulhu wrote:

And while I like my Exorcists they could do with being less random, like 3-4 shots instead of a d6 roll. You can never be sure what it'll do - will it fire one missile at those Terminators or six at the Rhino with one hull point left?

See, this is what happens when you let pigeons roost in your organs.

 Ashiraya wrote:
If my codex has only pencils and rubber bands, what are you suggesting I bring to that gun fight?

ALLIES!

Let's change "Learn to Play" to "Learn to Teach", addressed to those who previously used L2P arguments. Give your advice to the people with bad lists and strategies. If they don't want to listen, it's their problem.

Makumba wrote:

Yoyoyo wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
Getting along with your opponent really doesn't help in that sort of situation.

Losing can be fun. Matches that are one-sided because of armies or lists, not so much.

When you set up the game, isn't "balance" one of the major points to check off with your opponent?

Your opponet has scatter eldar or 5 knights and you have an army weak against them. How do you check balance with your opponent, other then make him buy a different army.

Well to be fair your only going to be able to afford one scatbike at 1850...However if someone did that to you in a casual game shake thier hand, snicker at thier delusion that doing so was acceptiable then move to the next game.

 Vector Strike wrote:
Let's change "Learn to Play" to "Learn to Teach", addressed to those who previously used L2P arguments. Give your advice to the people with bad lists and strategies. If they don't want to listen, it's their problem.

But how will we smash them and then humiliate them afterwards?

In all seriousness, I've always seen the "LOL, L2P NOOOOOBZZ!" as more of a trolling rhetoric thing than an actual desire for their opponents to get better. Certainly with some of the people I've seen playing 40K locally. Perhaps it's different for others.

Even if you change the definition of "winning" to a fun game, the game still suggests a "learn to pay" mentality (I love that btw, just had a discussion in another thread involving that part of 40k).

Take the earlier example. 2 players, 1 tau and 1 chaos.
The tau player goes out and buys some mobile suits, being a gundam fan. He buys the riptide, maybe 2, and then a scattering of support units. Not an OP list, but still strong.

The Chaos player wants blood for the blood god. He takes khorne berzerkers in rhinos and landraiders, maybe even a few on bikes or some terminators. Everything is loaded for CC.

These are two new players, and these are the only models they own (not uncommon to see new players own basically 1 list). They are friends that want to play each other. Problem is, the Tau player will crush the Chaos player in nearly every game they play, due to the radically different power levels of their fluffy list. How to rectify this?

They basically have two options;
Agree to a ton of house rules that they must devise and play test until the game becomes playable. These will most likely only apply to each other, so if this happens with another person they have to start the process all over again.

The tau player buys some kroot and vespids to tone down the list. The Khorne player allies in some demons or picks another more viable god.

It's a really bad system, imo.

topaxygouroun i wrote:
And while I like my Exorcists they could do with being less random, like 3-4 shots instead of a d6 roll. You can never be sure what it'll do - will it fire one missile at those Terminators or six at the Rhino with one hull point left?

One of the worst looking models in the game with one of the worst shooting profiles in the game.

 Vector Strike wrote:
Let's change "Learn to Play" to "Learn to Teach", addressed to those who previously used L2P arguments. Give your advice to the people with bad lists and strategies. If they don't want to listen, it's their problem.

The problem with that is that they offer the same advice which is "This is the Best (Insert Army name) Tournament list, go buy this stuff and then you can beat your opponents."

Or my personal favorite, You need to shoot the stabby and stab the shooty.

In the end the advice is always the same, always redundant and always useless. The only time advice is useful is when your talking about a person new to an army and they are choosing the worst units and doing silly things with them.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
Let's change "Learn to Play" to "Learn to Teach", addressed to those who previously used L2P arguments. Give your advice to the people with bad lists and strategies. If they don't want to listen, it's their problem.

The problem with that is that they offer the same advice which is "This is the Best (Insert Army name) Tournament list, go buy this stuff and then you can beat your opponents."

Or my personal favorite, You need to shoot the stabby and stab the shooty.

In the end the advice is always the same, always redundant and always useless. The only time advice is useful is when your talking about a person new to an army and they are choosing the worst units and doing silly things with them.

This.

Though, don't forget the 'any unit/army is good if you have skill' crowd.

You know the ones - the people who'll say that they run a DE army with nothing but wyches, bloodbrides and hellions, and that their army is undefeated and has repeatedly crushed the Necron Decurion, the SM/DA double-Gladius, Eldar Jetbike spam etc.

Odd, aside from some absolutely abysmal matchups which occasionally do happen, I've never felt I didn't have a chance to win, and if I didn't win I have most of the time seen how it could've been done afterwards. And bad matchups aren't an issue of WH40K only, I could name a competitor inwhich it's actually even worse, but I reckon it would just go into banter so I'll just drop it. Personally I have no issue whatsoever with a game having bad matchups, it's present in videogames all the same.

And the only armies I haven't played are Sisters of Battle and Admech.

Huh.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention that Skyhammer is better on paper than it is ingame. It can be beaten, and far easier than Decurion, Warconvo+Flesh Tearers and some others. I've seen players lose to it though.

Players who had no idea what they were doing, mostly...

Not saying the balance wouldn't be way off, but "learning to play is" never a 100% useless argument. Unless one can't think objectively ofcourse.

 Lord Corellia wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
If my codex has only pencils and rubber bands, what are you suggesting I bring to that gun fight?

ALLIES!

Tydanid codex! No allies! Because Tyranids! Also no rulebook psychic powers, no vehicles, no anti-vehicles, only one ap2 ranged weapon in the whole armory, zero invul saves in the whole codex, only one 2+ armor IN THE WHOLE DARN CODEX, only 3 units can actually take grenade equivalents and only one of them has it by default. Our hth units that have strength have crappy WS and attacks and if they got WS and attacks they have crappy strength and ap. At least this edition we are actually allowed to get fortifications and gun emplacements, last edition we couldn't even do that either. Because Tyranids! We are also the only army in the game with a blanket rule that's a blatant nerf, even Necrons got rid of their own auto-lose rule, but instinctive behavior has to stay because reasons. See what you did there? You put me on the rant train again...Curse your sudden yet inevitable betrayal!

/rant.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Lord Corellia wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
If my codex has only pencils and rubber bands, what are you suggesting I bring to that gun fight?

ALLIES!

Tydanid codex! No allies! Because Tyranids! Also no rulebook psychic powers, no vehicles, no anti-vehicles, only one ap2 ranged weapon in the whole armory, zero invul saves in the whole codex, only one 2+ armor IN THE WHOLE DARN CODEX, only 3 units can actually take grenade equivalents and only one of them has it by default. Our hth units that have strength have crappy WS and attacks and if they got WS and attacks they have crappy strength and ap. At least this edition we are actually allowed to get fortifications and gun emplacements, last edition we couldn't even do that either. Because Tyranids! We are also the only army in the game with a blanket rule that's a blatant nerf, even Necrons got rid of their own auto-lose rule, but instinctive behavior has to stay because reasons. See what you did there? You put me on the rant train again...Curse your sudden yet inevitable betrayal!

/rant.

Silly mortal, you forget that there are "come the apocalypse" allies! For the low price of 203 points you can take a primary detachment of a Warrior prime and two ripper swarms. After that, feel free to ally in all of the scatterbikes, wraithguard, decurion, and gladius that you think you will need. Please report to your FLGS for your immediate army upgrade. Remember: What would Kirby do?

Make sure that those pesky tyranid units stay away from the actual battle so that they do not interfere with your main army.

topaxygouroun i wrote:

 Lord Corellia wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
If my codex has only pencils and rubber bands, what are you suggesting I bring to that gun fight?

ALLIES!

Tydanid codex! No allies! Because Tyranids! Also no rulebook psychic powers, no vehicles, no anti-vehicles, only one ap2 ranged weapon in the whole armory, zero invul saves in the whole codex, only one 2+ armor IN THE WHOLE DARN CODEX, only 3 units can actually take grenade equivalents and only one of them has it by default. Our hth units that have strength have crappy WS and attacks and if they got WS and attacks they have crappy strength and ap. At least this edition we are actually allowed to get fortifications and gun emplacements, last edition we couldn't even do that either. Because Tyranids! We are also the only army in the game with a blanket rule that's a blatant nerf, even Necrons got rid of their own auto-lose rule, but instinctive behavior has to stay because reasons. See what you did there? You put me on the rant train again...Curse your sudden yet inevitable betrayal!

/rant.

Don't forget Shadow in the Warp which does next to nothing now.

Tyranids suck. I have shelved mine (aside from the fact I find no reason to play in general as of late) until a new codex, which will probably not help them at all.

 Lord Corellia wrote:

How so?? Many times my roommate has asked what I paid for something and the response I get after telling him is "oh, WOOOW that's a lot of money for that sort of thing." and when he tries launching into a lecture I firmly remind him that paying my half of the rent, bills, etc has never EVER been an issue.

So now I generally bring it into the house when he's not there or not paying attention. Or hidden in a bag with other stuff. Just to avoid the eye-roll and argument.

Much more of problem when one is married. She can buy all the shoes she wants, despite having hundreds of shoes, but I was wasting money buying more of "those minis". All the time. Of course when married any time the husband spends money it is wasteful, but his wife can spend whatever. Just the way it all works. I have a friend renting a room in my house and as long as he pays his rent I couldn't care less what he spends his money on or how much nor does he interrogate me about what I spend. Any roommate who does that and then proceeds to lecture when you consistently keep up your half of the financial obligations needs to stfu. I dealt with that when married, but there are bonuses in a marriage, like sex, that don't come out of normal roommate arrangements that makes putting up with such interrogations somewhat worth it.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

Tydanid codex! No allies! Because Tyranids! Also no rulebook psychic powers, no vehicles, no anti-vehicles, only one ap2 ranged weapon in the whole armory, zero invul saves in the whole codex, only one 2+ armor IN THE WHOLE DARN CODEX, only 3 units can actually take grenade equivalents and only one of them has it by default. Our hth units that have strength have crappy WS and attacks and if they got WS and attacks they have crappy strength and ap. At least this edition we are actually allowed to get fortifications and gun emplacements, last edition we couldn't even do that either. Because Tyranids! We are also the only army in the game with a blanket rule that's a blatant nerf, even Necrons got rid of their own auto-lose rule, but instinctive behavior has to stay because reasons. See what you did there? You put me on the rant train again...Curse your sudden yet inevitable betrayal!

/rant.

I think the only reason the 'nids are a real threat in the universe is because when they invade a planet the battle is something like 2000points space marines and 20000points tyranids. If we could divide the cost of every tyranid model by 10 rounded down to a minimum of 1 then they might actually be scarier to face on the table. I had a 3000 point horde of nids before the nids got all the cool big massive beasties they now have so even less power then and sold it because while they sound so super awesome cool in their descriptions they never follow through on the table consistently. I think battle brothers should be removed completely from the game, and give everyone the ability to ally with any other army that they want at the mid level where they can't share transports, nor psychic powers and the like with the different forces. This would remove ALL of the current ally shenanigans from the game just like Taudar stopped being ever prevelant as soon as Tau and Eldar were no longer able to be battle brothers. This would also allow everyone to use whatever models they have in their collection if they want. It is supposed to be about fun and some battle brother combos offer too many advantages that other forces don't have and just get made even less useful because of.