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 Mymearan wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I can live with TLOS in Firefight, I think, if it's about individual models. Where it breaks down for me is when the whole squad can be wiped out because one guy's elbow can be seen around a corner. Like what happens in 40k from 5th onwards.

40k also uses TLOS on an individual basis. Can't kill what you can't see!

I wish "TLOS" meant Terminator LOS
gosh I despise true line of sight

I'm going to try and trick my group into this.

The army deals look good. Plus.. it's models for three games.

They were already interested in Deadzone, maybe this will push them over the edge for that too.

If Asterians and Plague show up, I'll be tempted to just buy it for myself. They can hang out with my unassembled Deadzone stuff. I'll look at that pile of potential anytime I feel like being disappointed in my friends.

Couple of updates from the alpha feedback mantic forum thread.

There will be no multi bases in the ks. I.e. no plastic trays. They haven't decided on the best idea yet.

The marauders will probably feature in the corps armylist as a merc unit.

Sounds like hubs have definitely gone to be replaced with multi basing units (There will be a guide on how to do this in an update)

The Veermyn will have some 'comedy' rules to bring some fun into the game, like other mantic games.

Have mantic said if their going to offer the unlocked heroes as add on or are they only available with the army packs.

They'll be add ons tomorrow probably in the $8 - $10 range like previous KS

 edlowe wrote:
Couple of updates from the alpha feedback mantic forum thread.

There will be no multi bases in the ks. I.e. no plastic trays. They haven't decided on the best idea yet.

I find this really discouraging. How to base squads is a pretty core concept for the game, and I don't like that they'll be selling me a product that's incomplete.

I like multi-basing, hell I actually liked the hubs just fine. I just want a game that's complete.

The marauders will probably feature in the corps armylist as a merc unit.

I think this confirms that they absolutely do not want to take the KoW approach to Warpath, which is cool. Selfishly, I want a "not-40k" set of rules, but I know that Mantic needs to sell product.

The Veermyn will have some 'comedy' rules to bring some fun into the game, like other mantic games.

Something that's funny when you write a rule isn't always funny when that model is played, but I'll take a "wait and see" approach. I think there's nothing wrong with a more light hearted approach, but "comedy" rules are usually code for "random dice rolling."

You get extra movement for your rats if your eating a cheese sandwich! As long as they don't go down the AoS route I'm sure it will be fine.

 Mymearan wrote:

40k also uses TLOS on an individual basis. Can't kill what you can't see!

Which was a mistake and a step backwards from 5th edition's vastly better LOS rules, IMO.

I think its more like hidden units springing ambushes, beasts going wild through your own lines and stuff like that. Maybe 'wild' rules would have been a more apt description.

overtyrant wrote:
You get extra movement for your rats if your eating a cheese sandwich! As long as they don't go down the AoS route I'm sure it will be fine.

Yeah, you can keep your comedy. If I wanted comedy, I'd play Munchkin, not spend hundreds of dollars and hours on miniatures.

 Baragash wrote:

Yes, the plan is to put hubs into an appendix for people without stands now and the main rules will be on the basis of collective basing.

Ugh. Either of those options is enough to kill any interest for me.

Multi-basing is fine for a 6 or 10mm game, but it's just too unwieldy at 28mm. Hence so many Astra Imperialguardium players over the last 10 years or so asking 'Is it ok if I put my heavy weapon teams on separate bases...?'

Remember there's always Firefight which uses neither hubs nor multibasing.

 edlowe wrote:
The Veermyn will have some 'comedy' rules to bring some fun into the game, like other mantic games.

When I told them the game needed more "fun" earlier, that wasn't what I had in mind.......

overtyrant wrote:
You get extra movement for your rats if your eating a cheese sandwich! As long as they don't go down the AoS route I'm sure it will be fine.

That rule is funnier than you think. Especially if you're playing against Janice.

Is anyone else crazy excited about four drop ships because they already have 200 enforcers?!

 Alex C wrote:
Remember there's always Firefight which uses neither hubs nor multibasing.

Creator Mantic Games 6 minutes ago

The Firefight Alpha rules will not be ready during the Kickstarter.

Mantic just revealed that they won't have the Firefight rules available during the kickstarter. There goes 90% of my interest.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Is anyone else crazy excited about four drop ships because they already have 200 enforcers?!

You know the interceptor is currently Transport 1 which means it can carry one 5 man Enforcer team - your going to need a lot more Interceptors

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

overtyrant wrote:
You get extra movement for your rats if your eating a cheese sandwich! As long as they don't go down the AoS route I'm sure it will be fine.

That rule is funnier than you think. Especially if you're playing against Janice.

Need a rat with a cheese sandwhich in a van now!

 insaniak wrote:

 Baragash wrote:

Yes, the plan is to put hubs into an appendix for people without stands now and the main rules will be on the basis of collective basing.

Ugh. Either of those options is enough to kill any interest for me.

Multi-basing is fine for a 6 or 10mm game, but it's just too unwieldy at 28mm. Hence so many Astra Imperialguardium players over the last 10 years or so asking 'Is it ok if I put my heavy weapon teams on separate bases...?'

Yup. Same here. Lost any sort of interest to try this ruleset. Multi-basing 28mm figures, especially in a sci-fi game, is absurd. If that's the case, your game is too big for the scale.

 MLaw wrote:

 Alex C wrote:
Remember there's always Firefight which uses neither hubs nor multibasing.

Creator Mantic Games 6 minutes ago

The Firefight Alpha rules will not be ready during the Kickstarter.

Mantic just revealed that they won't have the Firefight rules available during the kickstarter. There goes 90% of my interest.

Ditto. Not KSing a game that isn't even at Alpha.

Isnt that like.. you know.. the whole point of a KS? To fund something that does not exist?

People just cannot be satisfied.

RoninXiC wrote:
Isnt that like.. you know.. the whole point of a KS? To fund something that does not exist?

People just cannot be satisfied.

DZ Campaign Mode, Asterians and Forgefathers, printed Psy books, etc etc.. Mantic does not do well with "we'll get to it later" type stuff. They've been claiming that the Warpath rules are in draft for months. Very little has changed in those rules that were first posted months ago, moreover, for the mass combat game they are sticking to the multi-basing thing. The seem extremely unclear about the direction they want to go and many of the decisions they're making at this point seem centered around funneling money not building the game that people want.
To me, the problem started when they didn't know what size game they wanted to make. It got worse when they started tossing around two separate concepts. If it has taken them this long to still be in alpha on the mass-battle concept, then what are we going to see with the other set that they don't even seem to be serious about?
When people ask questions about the game in the KS chat, Mantic says "let's just focus on the models". They don't know what product they're making so how are we supposed to back that with confidence?

RoninXiC wrote:
Isnt that like.. you know.. the whole point of a KS? To fund something that does not exist?

No, it's to fund something that the creator needs money to produce.

As a general rule, campaigns that are more fleshed out do better than those that are still just at the idea stage, as people can see what they are actually putting their money towards. So miniature campaigns with finished sculpts are more attractive than those with just sketches... And rulesets that are already written are going to be more attractive than a description of a ruleset that somebody is intending to start writing later...

Well we did try to tell them that multibasing a 28mm mass battle sci fi game would be a huge turn off for the majority, but they seem to have believed the Mantic forums were more representative than they actually are.

I'm still hopeful for Firefight at least.

 NTRabbit wrote:
Well we did try to tell them that multibasing a 28mm mass battle sci fi game would be a huge turn off for the majority, but they seem to have believed the Mantic forums were more representative than they actually are.

I'm still hopeful for Firefight at least.

Yeah, for the sheer small hope of Firefight, I'm keeping a buck in to give the PM time. If the Firefight rules are out before the PM closes, I'll be able to make informed decisions about what to get. Prior to that, I'm not playing guessing games with my money :/

As to the Mantic forums, I've learned that divergent opinions do not fare well there. Mantic has some neat ideas and some good models but nothing about the fluff of their games or even the mechanics of any of their products has impressed me to the point of earning that sort of loyalty. It seems to me that the people who are content with Mantic's stuff no matter what are the company's biggest problem :/

EDIT: Just as a reminder, Mantic said Firefight's alpha rules won't be available during the course of the KS.

Hopefully it'll be out before this stuff ships :/

 MLaw wrote:
It seems to me that the people who are content with Mantic's stuff no matter what are the company's biggest problem

I enjoy all of their games. Simple rules, fun experience and can be played through relatively quickly. I also really enjoy their model ranges and fiction material. If that means I'm some sort of huge problem to their growth and development as a company, then so be it, but I think their success has been down to more than just fanboys.

I'm backng mainly for Firefight too. I can certainly understand why people have reservations about its current state of development but I'm basing my decision on their previous works, all of which I have been happy with.

Ultimately it's a personal choice, but to write off those of us who enjoy their products as a "problem" is a little unfair, imho.

Alex, you replied without exclamation marks, you're not the people I'm talking about.

As an aside..
If you were to be content with this.. or.. whatever the produced from the feedback of the people who weren't happy, then is there a problem with people who aren't happy giving feedback? What I was getting at is, there is a subset who attacks people for not liking the products rather than simply recognizing that some people like it and some don't. If people who would like to see something changed are not allowed to speak up, then how is Mantic supposed to further their product lines?

Again.. your response is mature and allows for the two of us to have differing opinions. That's not what I've found on the Mantic boards.

 insaniak wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:

40k also uses TLOS on an individual basis. Can't kill what you can't see!

Which was a mistake and a step backwards from 5th edition's vastly better LOS rules, IMO.

Wasnt 5th the first time they introduced TLOS? Pretty sure about that...

On topic, I wouldnt mind it for Firefight, but Warpath would have issues... especially if they dont go for standardized unit bases.

Hammerfist Drop Squad at $210k metal upgrade for Forgeguard $15 for 6



And then 3rd Gens?

Can someone explain the multibasing issue?
I do not have much experience outside of 40K and do not use IG so the heavy weapons example eludes me a bit. They stated that the models will be able to be removed so the picture I have in my head (which is likely wrong) is something like this albeit much simpler


so am I wrong on what multibasing means? I do not really see this a bad thing. I have moved enough horde armies ( including positioning as to not be raped by templates etc) to want something like a movement tray that keeps you at optimal unit coherency.