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2015/09/12 20:07:03
Subject: Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
Los Angeles decided to "go green" by introducing new electric cars into their fleet. The article shows the thinking of the policy makers who went in this direction but there is one major flaw. Police departments use sedans and not coupes for a reason. That's not even going into the cost/benefit analysis of these things.
Chris Woodyard, USA TODAY wrote:Los Angeles unveils puny BMW electric police car
Scary, huh? It's the BMW i3 electric car that Los Angeles Police will test (Photo: Danny Moloshok)
LOS ANGELES -- The sight of a puny, electric-powered BMW police car with flashing red lights isn't exactly going to instill fear in the hearts of this city's criminals.
But on Friday, the Los Angeles Police Department showed off the newest member of its fleet, a black-and-white BMW i3, a diminutive electric car meant for tooling around downtowns, not necessary for a televised high-speed freeway chase.
BMW is loaning the not-so-intimidating police cruiser to the force for a year as part of Mayor Eric Garcetti's desire to get more electric or plug-in cars into the city's fleet.
"Today, we take another step toward becoming the most sustainable city in America," said Garcetti in prepared remarks. "This year, Los Angeles will become home to the largest city-owned fleet of pure battery electric vehicles anywhere in the country, and we will save taxpayer dollars along the way."
The police department, along with fire, general services, and water and power, will lease a total of 160 electric vehicles. Two departments, general services and water and power, will also lease a total of 128 plug-in hybrids.
The move could be boon to automakers, BMW included, which need to sell zero-emission vehicles under a state mandate. But with gas prices low and lower-range electric vehicles out of favor, the clean cars been a tough sell with consumers.
BMW is thrilled at L.A.'s move.
"The decision by the Los Angeles Police Department to undertake this evaluation highlights the compelling nature of the BMW i3 as a versatile, sustainable vehicle," says Christine Fleischer, manager for BMW plug-in cars in the U.S. "The i3 is a brilliant fit with the technology-driven research philosophy of the LAPD."
Though it's not terribly fast and range per charge is limited, BMW says the i3 has a tight turning circle that will help maneuvering around L.A.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/12 20:09:18
2015/09/12 20:14:07
Subject: Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
Police have more cars than just ones to pursue other cars. That is why the article says the electric cars are part of a fleet, and not the only cars the LAPD use. It isn't always about intimidating people as much as letting people know that the police are around.
Honestly I'm not sure it is a good idea of the police to focus purely on intimidation either.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/12 20:15:22
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2015/09/12 20:21:10
Subject: Re:Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
I see this sort of thinking in Top Gear as well - it's one of the reasons it is a bloody stupid show. Always dealing in absolutes and all or nothings.
It's probably costing the police very little for these vehicles that will not be used for high speed chases. BMW are probably also not making much out of this. They are pushing a new technology and take up is slow - that's normal. Investing in civic departments promotes their technology and product, gives them a lot of feedback and data, makes it easier to push their brand and "normalises" the tech. Most of the pushback for this sort of thing is inertia to new ideas.
Heck, it's a loan. A trial. A test. This is how things get done in the real world.
2015/09/12 20:26:26
Subject: Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
We just got all of those Dodge Chargers for the LAPD. Why do we need these stupid, tiny cars? And I find it funny that Mayor Garcetti's first step to making LA more sustainable is gimping the LAPD rather than, y'know, clamping down on the hundreds of thousands of gallons of water we don't have that gets wasted every day on golf courses, lawns, water parks etc. I think reducing water usage is more important during one of the worst droughts on records in California than gas since we aren't going to have fuel shortages for decades.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/12 20:27:49
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
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2015/09/12 20:32:13
Subject: Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
TheCustomLime wrote: We just got all of those Dodge Chargers for the LAPD. Why do we need these stupid, tiny cars? And I find it funny that Mayor Garcetti's first step to making LA more sustainable is gimping the LAPD rather than, y'know, clamping down on the hundreds of thousands of gallons of water we don't have that gets wasted every day on golf courses, lawns, water parks etc. I think reducing water usage is more important during one of the worst droughts on records in California than gas since we aren't going to have fuel shortages for decades.
Stop it right now, your making to much sense. Also come on California is trying, I mean they are filling up reservoirs with plastic golf balls
I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders
2015/09/12 20:37:22
Subject: Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
TheCustomLime wrote: I think reducing water usage is more important during one of the worst droughts on records in California than gas since we aren't going to have fuel shortages for decades.
I think you just killed a dozen climatologists with that statement. The only way to bring them back to life it is to clap your hands and say "I believe in climate change!"
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/12 20:50:29
2015/09/12 20:55:25
Subject: Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
TheCustomLime wrote: I think reducing water usage is more important during one of the worst droughts on records in California than gas since we aren't going to have fuel shortages for decades.
I think you just killed a dozen climatologists with that statement. The only way to bring them back to life it is to clap your hands and say "I believe in climate change!"
Our reservoirs are at historic lows. The drought has been going on for years now. The path Los Angeles is going simply isn't sustainable in the long run and no one wants to do anything about it because it would mean giving up our pretty green lawns.
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
2015/09/12 21:05:01
Subject: Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
If you don't know what you would use a tiny police car for then you don't know a lot about police functions.
Community outreach, public events, parks, festivals, investigations. There are plenty of functions a police department can use small cars for, they do more than chase people or arrest people.
2015/09/12 21:09:40
Subject: Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
No problem here. I mean, what do you want, Metalocalypse police cars to instill fear?
See, you're trying to use people logic. DM uses Mandelogic, which we've established has 2+2=quack. - Aerethan
Putin.....would make a Vulcan Intelligence officer cry. - Jihadin
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2015/09/12 23:38:16
Subject: Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
Ahtman wrote: Honestly I'm not sure it is a good idea of the police to focus purely on intimidation either.
Intimidation? No. You need a sedan to safely transport perps back to the precinct for processing. I've got a four door Fiesta and the back is cramped as it is. There's no way in hell you're getting a difficult perp into or out of these BMW's safely.
This means you need a SECOND non-green car to do at least part of the duties that should be done by the green car. Not exactly the optimal way of doing things.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/12 23:40:53
2015/09/12 23:43:25
Subject: Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
Ahtman wrote: Honestly I'm not sure it is a good idea of the police to focus purely on intimidation either.
Intimidation? No. You need a sedan to safely transport perps back to the precinct for processing. I've got a Fiesta and the back is cramped as it is. There's no way in hell you're getting a difficult perp into or out of that thing safely.
This means you need a SECOND non-green car to do at least part of the duties that should be done by the green car. Not exactly the optimal way of doing things.
Once you realize that there are plenty of roles and opportunities for police to engage with the public where their role specifically doesn't involve transporting someone that was arrested, then you will realize just how big of a non-issue this whole thing really is.
2015/09/12 23:48:10
Subject: Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
d-usa wrote: Once you realize that there are plenty of roles and opportunities for police to engage with the public where their role specifically doesn't involve transporting someone that was arrested, then you will realize just how big of a non-issue this whole thing really is.
They're replacing squad cars with these cars. These BMWs do less and cost more. This isn't being done for rational or practical reasons, it is being done to simply show the world that LA loves the greens. That doesn't make it an issue but it does make it really stupid.
2015/09/12 23:54:41
Subject: Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
d-usa wrote: Once you realize that there are plenty of roles and opportunities for police to engage with the public where their role specifically doesn't involve transporting someone that was arrested, then you will realize just how big of a non-issue this whole thing really is.
They're replacing squad cars with these cars. These BMWs do less and cost more. This isn't being done for rational or practical reasons, it is being done to simply show the world that LA loves the greens. That doesn't make it an issue but it does make it really stupid.
It's LA what do you expect?
I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders
2015/09/12 23:58:32
Subject: Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
d-usa wrote: Once you realize that there are plenty of roles and opportunities for police to engage with the public where their role specifically doesn't involve transporting someone that was arrested, then you will realize just how big of a non-issue this whole thing really is.
They're replacing squad cars with these cars. These BMWs do less and cost more. This isn't being done for rational or practical reasons, it is being done to simply show the world that LA loves the greens. That doesn't make it an issue but it does make it really stupid.
Such is the way of LA. We'll paint bicycle paths no one uses and dump money into low emission vehicles but when it comes to LA's real ecological problems? Nothing. Except maybe a few signs telling you to take fewer showers or something.
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
2015/09/13 00:01:11
Subject: Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
d-usa wrote: If you don't know what you would use a tiny police car for then you don't know a lot about police functions.
Community outreach, public events, parks, festivals, investigations. There are plenty of functions a police department can use small cars for, they do more than chase people or arrest people.
I instantly thought detectives and other investigators for starters. They have little need for a car that can do 130 on the highway
2015/09/13 00:03:39
Subject: Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
d-usa wrote: Once you realize that there are plenty of roles and opportunities for police to engage with the public where their role specifically doesn't involve transporting someone that was arrested, then you will realize just how big of a non-issue this whole thing really is.
They're replacing squad cars with these cars. These BMWs do less and cost more. This isn't being done for rational or practical reasons, it is being done to simply show the world that LA loves the greens. That doesn't make it an issue but it does make it really stupid.
Such is the way of LA. We'll paint bicycle paths no one uses and dump money into low emission vehicles but when it comes to LA's real ecological problems? Nothing. Except maybe a few signs telling you to take fewer showers or something.
I feel like a lot of that is due to public opinion. IT is better to be seen trying to be good then to actually be good. or in this case it is better to be seen trying to be green then actually taking the effort to be green.
I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders
2015/09/13 00:09:28
Subject: Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
d-usa wrote: Once you realize that there are plenty of roles and opportunities for police to engage with the public where their role specifically doesn't involve transporting someone that was arrested, then you will realize just how big of a non-issue this whole thing really is.
They're replacing squad cars with these cars.
No they are not. They are adding these cars to the fleet, not replacing current cars.
And again, once you realize that there are plenty of officers with plenty of assignments where their job specifically doesn't include transporting people that were arrested you will realize that "they can't fit someone in the back seat" is a non-factor.
These BMWs do less
Yes, they do less because they don't need to do as much. A Police Department Golf Cart also does a lot less than a police cruiser, their job also doesn't need them to do all the things that a cruiser does. A PD motorcycle also does a lot less than a cruiser, but again their job also doesn't need them to do all the things that a cruiser does.
Again, once you realize that there are plenty of officers with plenty of assignments where a cruiser is not needed then you will realize that having a car that doesn't do as much as a cruiser is a non-factor.
and cost more.
This one is loaned to the department, so it doesn't cost anything.
And actually, once you realize that you are reducing the wear and tear on a regular cruiser by not sending it out to community events such as the neighborhood watch party, the local parade, and the parking lot of a festival for 8 hours the department is probably saving money.
This isn't being done for rational or practical reasons, it is being done to simply show the world that LA loves the greens.
Department have historically used vehicles other than cruisers for a wide variety of reasons in situations where a cruiser simply isn't needed. They have used high-performance cars for chases, they have used golf carts for community events, they have used motorcycles, they have used the new VW Beetle, they have used Mini-Coopers. If you can name it, a department somewhere has likely used it. Reasons these non-cruisers get used:
- Reducing wear and tear on cruisers by not using them for functions where they are not needed.
- Community outreach and interaction.
- Recruitment
And of course going green. The same reason more and more departments, and really more and more cities, are replacing their fleets with vehicles that are more green (CNG, electric, Hybrid Fuels, better fuel efficiency, etc)
That doesn't make it an issue but it does make it really stupid.
It only makes it stupid if you think going green is stupid or if you think that not using a cruiser for situations where a cruiser isn't needed is stupid.
In reality BMW gave them a free car for a year and they are getting a ton of publicity out of it. It's a win-win for both BMW and the LAPD.
d-usa wrote: If you don't know what you would use a tiny police car for then you don't know a lot about police functions.
Community outreach, public events, parks, festivals, investigations. There are plenty of functions a police department can use small cars for, they do more than chase people or arrest people.
I instantly thought detectives and other investigators for starters. They have little need for a car that can do 130 on the highway
Stuff that our PD does where this car could be used for:
- sit at a booth at a neighborhood festival/county fair/state fair where you hand out the fancy PD sticker-badges to kids
- closing down an intersection because of a festival, parade, funeral
- be assigned to a school or church or other public building where your job is to be there on the property and you will always call in another unit to transport someone away that was arrested
- drive in a parade where people will say "look at that, they got a neat car"
- drive to a school to give a talk about whatever cops go to schools for to talk about stuff
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/13 00:13:19
2015/09/13 00:15:59
Subject: Re:Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
The future is here!!! Seems like a good enough to do a beat in, providing a visible deterrent and besides, electric cars are almost silent, which is what I like best about the ones I have seen out and about, seems like a useful thing for a police vehicle.
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2015/09/13 00:17:15
Subject: Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
I actually agree with you D-USA on a lot of these points, however it is still a significant waste of resources. Yes at this point its free so it isn't a waste of anything. But if the LAPD does start using these cars it is going to quickly become expensive. Granted I also feel that the PD doesn't need to utilize Dodge Chargers for the work they do.
I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders
2015/09/13 00:18:09
Subject: Re:Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
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2015/09/13 00:24:15
Subject: Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
Ghazkuul wrote: Granted I also feel that the PD doesn't need to utilize Dodge Chargers for the work they do.
I'm thinking that 90% of all Dodge Chargers are purchased because the blood flow to the brain decreases whenever most guys see a Dodge Charger. It looks bad-ass, it looks mean, it looks intimidating, it just screams "respect my authority".
They are not needed, but I understand why they were purchased
2015/09/13 00:26:53
Subject: Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
Ghazkuul wrote: Granted I also feel that the PD doesn't need to utilize Dodge Chargers for the work they do.
I'm thinking that 90% of all Dodge Chargers are purchased because the blood flow to the brain decreases whenever most guys see a Dodge Charger. It looks bad-ass, it looks mean, it looks intimidating, it just screams "respect my authority".
They are not needed, but I understand why they were purchased
undeniably good chase cars, but not needed as much. Granted I remember in Florida where the PDs would purchase confiscated vehicles for use as under cover cars....nothing like seeing Ferrari's and Mustangs running around as cop cars
I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders
2015/09/13 00:30:28
Subject: Re:Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
BlaxicanX wrote: Can someone explain to me why this is somehow a bad thing when bicycle cops and motorcycle cops have been a thing for literally decades?
well in my personal opinion, its because a bike costs a couple hundred while a BMW costs a tens of thousands.
I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders
2015/09/13 00:47:08
Subject: Re:Green Initiative Trumps Intelligent Thinking in Los Angeles
BlaxicanX wrote: Can someone explain to me why this is somehow a bad thing when bicycle cops and motorcycle cops have been a thing for literally decades?
"Hurr Durr, greens equals stupid and good guy cops needs to pew pew bad guys from big vroom vroom car"
Is my guess, but I don't know, I think this is a good thing. More tools in the toolbox.
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