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I think what we tend to find is a little analysis paralysis from the player base as they tend to spend time working out plans (that's not the games fault).

I tend to play Consul, and often we find it quite easy to spam the chaff to keep players bogged down until the boss spawns. This to be fair is far better than our MKI experience, where players would sometimes struggle to even leave the first room or kill a spawn point... the more consistent spawning and consul activation often left them huddled in a corner.

The issue tends to come in that the consul can often heal. Even spawn points can be healed (I liked the new rule of the spawn point taking damage as it spawned, but if that can be countered be healing it slightly undoes this).

We really noticed it in the last game (we played all the undead spawns for a spooky theme) with the reaper being a very nasty drop (which I think is pretty well known now) and then Von Drakk himself essentially being invincible in his bat form, as he kept blood draining any damage away. The payers just about got to the time out before the TPK occurred.

This is our one issue, the game often takes a long time getting to the same end point of the level boss wiping the party. The random nature of item drops can sometimes make or break the ability of the party to do any lasting damage on the boss, and with out the right mix of items/abilities then they struggle.

This could of course be in part due to the lack of subtlety displayed by my better half. She often struggles to care about chests and keys, and only wants to whack everything with the barbarian. So sh isn't tooled up or doesn't have the def buffs needed for the end game :( I have to really push her to go open chests for the better loot.

Try to play solo in Arcade Mode. Since all monsters actions are resolved by the cards/"Console rules", it's pretty straightforward. And if you're only one to play the heroes, that's less time taking into arguing with your fellow players.

Also, getting the board ready with everything needed at hand is useful. Once all is set and you only have to roll dice and move your pieces on the tiles, it really doesn't take so much time. I'm talking about the game in itself, of course.

 Sarouan wrote:
Try to play solo in Arcade Mode. Since all monsters actions are resolved by the cards/"Console rules", it's pretty straightforward. And if you're only one to play the heroes, that's less time taking into arguing with your fellow players.

Also, getting the board ready with everything needed at hand is useful. Once all is set and you only have to roll dice and move your pieces on the tiles, it really doesn't take so much time. I'm talking about the game in itself, of course.

Yeah, its been on my mind to play solo for sure (insert obvious joke about playing with oneself).

Games that go over about 1.30 hrs are where I can see Sam's eyes glaze over and her attention drift, which is a shame as she loves the aesthetic and core concept of SDE, she just doesn't like the duration.

Had the same issue with Descent, and its why she doesn't enjoy wargames, but loves board games.

JonWebb wrote:

 Sarouan wrote:
Try to play solo in Arcade Mode. Since all monsters actions are resolved by the cards/"Console rules", it's pretty straightforward. And if you're only one to play the heroes, that's less time taking into arguing with your fellow players.

Also, getting the board ready with everything needed at hand is useful. Once all is set and you only have to roll dice and move your pieces on the tiles, it really doesn't take so much time. I'm talking about the game in itself, of course.

Yeah, its been on my mind to play solo for sure (insert obvious joke about playing with oneself).

Games that go over about 1.30 hrs are where I can see Sam's eyes glaze over and her attention drift, which is a shame as she loves the aesthetic and core concept of SDE, she just doesn't like the duration.

Had the same issue with Descent, and its why she doesn't enjoy wargames, but loves board games.

I am hoping the RPG side of legends allows more of a tile by tile component so a 5 player game isn't a war across 5 tiles at once. Basically spawn a single tile with set baddies, spend a few round stomping them, get loot, on to the next in a linked story.

Hopefully the new tiles included with Legends will lead to smaller battles that don't require as much board presence to run.

Deke posted the expected MSRPs

2nd Edition - $80
Legends - $80
Midnight Tower - $60
Frostbyte Ravagers - $40
Crown Guard - $40
Princess Amethyst - $13
Legends Digital - $45
Digital Campaigns - $5 - $15 depending on complexity.
Digital Adventures - $0 - $5 depending on complexity.
Single 25mm Miniature - $13
Single 50mm Miniature - $15 - $20
Single Spawns (generally not sold into retail but if they were) - $20
Dungeon Bosses - $25 - $35 depending on contents

So Legendary is $456 MSRP to date ($365 at 20% discounted prices) - I've ignored the digital content

2nd Edition - $80
Legends - $80 (whether people think it's worth that as is is debatable but that's the MSRP given)
Midnight Tower - $60
Frostbyte Ravagers - $40
Crown Guard - $40
Princess Amethyst - $13
Sanctioned Witch - $13
Captain of the Guard - $13

(the following assumes individual releases and no box set of all alt. heroes which would be cheaper)
Male Riftling Rouge - $13
Male Glimmerdusk Ranger - $13
Female Royal Paladain - $13
Male Ember Mage - $13

Arachne - $15
Shadow Tower $20
Spider Nest - $20
4 Pets - Not sold separately no price available
6 Spite Creeps (Beatrix and 6 Ghost Spites is $25 so say $10)


Also good to read that Add Ons will be at a minimum as it causes to much of a packing and logistics issue to offer loads of options.

Yeah, it's a smart move. If everyone gets the same, it makes packing and shipping much easier and quicker.

No Caverns of Roxor in the KS

Creator Soda Pop Miniatures 1 minute ago

...
Caverns will make a return, but not in this KS
..

Creator Soda Pop Miniatures 7 minutes ago

I'm looking into the feasiblitiy of an errata card pack for misprints. If we can do it, it will likely be separate from the Kickstarter though.

Ok... so no Roxor, then the other prediction is that the single paid add-on might be a plastic king starfire?

I know people are disliking the big box pledge, but I think the silent majority love it, and I am super happy that I don't have to plunk down another 20$ every 3rd stretch goal.

I hope we get NPCs for the legend box so it is not totally devoid of minis at retail. They said NPC tokens so I hope that means a Warden and Blacksmith minis.

I'd be down for a Blacksmith mini.

As much as I'd like to see a plastic King Starfire, I still would prefer a heroes evolved type deal, making upgraded alt hero figures for when they hit super high levels.

It would be a good excuse for an add on that really wouldn't affect gameplay in the least, and give something for the only minis crowd to pledge for too.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I'd be down for a Blacksmith mini.

As much as I'd like to see a plastic King Starfire, I still would prefer a heroes evolved type deal, making upgraded alt hero figures for when they hit super high levels.

It would be a good excuse for an add on that really wouldn't affect gameplay in the least, and give something for the only minis crowd to pledge for too.

Considering how the 'game only' people are not happy because the alt gender heroes don't have unique rules, I shudder to think about the (48 heroes + 9 alt genders) * 3-4 levels of experience = minis!!!

While I love progression minis, and RPG systems like Mantics Dungeon Saga and Myth have done that, I see diminishing returns for that for Sodapop.

Besides, we know the hardcore mini people will simply convert the existing minis to match the art

nkelsch wrote:
Ok... so no Roxor, then the other prediction is that the single paid add-on might be a plastic king starfire?

I know people are disliking the big box pledge, but I think the silent majority love it, and I am super happy that I don't have to plunk down another 20$ every 3rd stretch goal.

I hope we get NPCs for the legend box so it is not totally devoid of minis at retail. They said NPC tokens so I hope that means a Warden and Blacksmith minis.

As the owner of an expensive resin King Starfire I would not be happy seeing him make a return. He was sold as a limited edition model and I'd prefer he was kept that way.

nkelsch wrote:

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I'd be down for a Blacksmith mini.

As much as I'd like to see a plastic King Starfire, I still would prefer a heroes evolved type deal, making upgraded alt hero figures for when they hit super high levels.

It would be a good excuse for an add on that really wouldn't affect gameplay in the least, and give something for the only minis crowd to pledge for too.

Considering how the 'game only' people are not happy because the alt gender heroes don't have unique rules, I shudder to think about the (48 heroes + 9 alt genders) * 3-4 levels of experience = minis!!!

While I love progression minis, and RPG systems like Mantics Dungeon Saga and Myth have done that, I see diminishing returns for that for Sodapop.

Besides, we know the hardcore mini people will simply convert the existing minis to match the art

People are complaining that the alt gender minis aren't getting unique rules? Gah, glad I stay away from KS comments...

~iPaint

I think it's obvious that the genderflip Heroes will be sold as a $50(?) set, just like we saw in the FK PM.

We should also expect that the 6 Spite creeps get bundled with a full 6 tile set for the Midnight Tower.

Finally, we should see those 6 pets sold as a set of Wonders, but probably bundled with Creeps, Treasure Chests and/or Bootys to provide the "missing" models for SDE 2.0. I'd peg the price at $20, as that's the price difference between SDE 2.0 and FK, which inlcudes 6 Pets, 6 Creeps, Chests & Bootys.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Catyrpelius wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
Ok... so no Roxor, then the other prediction is that the single paid add-on might be a plastic king starfire?

As the owner of an expensive resin King Starfire I would not be happy seeing him make a return. He was sold as a limited edition model and I'd prefer he was kept that way.

There is no way that ND will sell more resin King Starfire models - the model wasn't designed for mass production, and it's quite dated.

They should unlock a new King Starfire model in plastic, given the number of people who continue to request one, and would gladly buy one if it were available.

"As the owner of an expensive resin King Starfire I would not be happy seeing him make a return. He was sold as a limited edition model and I'd prefer he was kept that way"

He was made in resin due to size, and ended up having massive mould issues and miscast issues. This made production limited, but he IS NOT a limited edition model in any way (limited production and mould breaking problems does not equate to limited edition). Soda pop miniatures prides themselves on no exclusives... this coming from a backer of the relic knights sde"kickstarter exclusive" models that they made not exclusive later due to this policy (the made me upset as I only pledged so I could get those... advertised as exclusive).

We will see him in plastic (in a much better modern sculpt), and most likely in this campaign. I like their new more grown up chibi looks vs the old childish chibi looks. The new normal stature model is huge and aggressively gorgeous!

I hope they do a plastic King Starfire I have the resin one but I doubt it will ever be more than a display piece (when I get around to painting it) it's just not as robust as a plastic piece for gaming.

I bet any King Starfire model will be a different pose to as the new 2.0 Starfire looks nothing like 1.0 starfire or King Starfire.

He is kinda in the middle of the two of small-head real vs oversized head cartoon.

I think *IF* SPM wants to tackle a 40$ single massive monster in plastic, then King Starfire is it. Especially with AQ clearly having one in the wings. Even mantic's Dungeon Saga big green dragon guy is a fun (but dorky looking) model and that people want a big durable dragon piece.

I won't be sad if they don't choose to go that path since I know nothing about how hard it is to make something like that in plastic, but if they made it, I would pick it up.

It can't be that hard to make a dragon - Reaper does like a half dozen Dragons / Wyverns / whatever every KS, and they all sell like crazy.

The only question is what sort of creeps would get bundled in with King Starfire if sold as a Boss, or if it gets expanded to some sort of $60 MSRP Level box.

A level box would be an interesting way to sell him.

Boss, maybe a tile or two, some creeps... I could see something like that selling for around $60.

A $60 MSRP Level box is typically a 3 Heroes, Boss, mini-Boss, and 3 spawns; no tiles, though.

A King Starfire "level box" might be as little as 1 Hero, Legendary Boss (on 3" base!), 6 creeps and 1 spawn, where the awesomeness of the HUGE dragon substitutes for some of the other stuff. The big issue would be having a box of the appropriate size for such a large, bulky model...

I backed NAS, and would be interested in this one, but I don't care for the break out on the pledges.

NAS did a very good job of letting the backer shift elements around to build out the clans/shrines they wanted.

I'd be after 2nd Edition, Frostbyte, and Crownguard. The RPG version and Midnight Tower have little/no appeal.

Oooooooooooooooh, we have our first NPC model.

Up until now, 28mm Chibi Fantasy needed some help but if we get a full town of NPCs, you can practically do full D&D campaigns on Sodapop minis alone.

Well, their evil scheme worked. The 2.0 rulebook I read sounded very fun, this KS feels like a good value at $200 already, and the wife and I are feeling a mid-weight campaign board-game to break-up our heavier games, and table-top minis sessions.

I went ahead and ordered Forgotten King, and Von Drakk as well from an online shop to whet out appetites. Are those good first purchases?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Well, their evil scheme worked. The 2.0 rulebook I read sounded very fun, this KS feels like a good value at $200 already, and the wife and I are feeling a mid-weight campaign board-game to break-up our heavier games, and table-top minis sessions.

I went ahead and ordered Forgotten King, and Von Drakk as well from an online shop to whet out appetites. Are those good first purchases?

That's 8 heroes and 7 Spawns I think... Enough for 5 player games with variety. You should be able to really get a feel for it with TFK+vondrakk.

I think Von Drakk, and TFK have fewer spawns than you're thinking, because a few of them are those "paired" ones.

Still, I love Undead themed stuff, and since TFK is already shipped with Version 2 rules, etc... I thought this would be a good way to get playing, and have stuff ready to go for next year when this KS delivers.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
KS feels like a good value at $200 already, and the wife and I are feeling a mid-weight campaign board-game to break-up our heavier games, and table-top minis sessions.

I went ahead and ordered Forgotten King, and Von Drakk as well from an online shop to whet out appetites. Are those good first purchases?

Yes, those are *great* first purchases. FK has loads of minis, with actual treasure chests! Von Drak has amazingly cool minis and an alternate Boss to change things up. You'll have plenty of options for Bosses, mini-Bosses, Spawns & Heroes.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I love Undead themed stuff, and since TFK is already shipped with Version 2 rules, etc... I thought this would be a good way to get playing, and have stuff ready to go for next year when this KS delivers.

You'll want to pick up Stilt Town warband and the Von Drak Manor tiles sometime down the road, but no hurry right now.

Yeah... my thinking is, even if we LOVE the game, we'll want to ration out the existing "big-box" releases to last us throughout 2016 while we wait for the KS.

Most of the single-figure releases seem like pretty poor value propositions, and don't really call to me aesthetically.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wow... the lack of paid-addons has been wonderful, but it feels like we hit an exaggerated mid-campaign-doldrum as a result. We've been stuck at $1000 away from a stretch-goal for hours and hours now, which feels telling.

I have to think gender-swap characters might also slow enthusiasm for a section of the audience, as $20k for no actual new gameplay content is sort of unfortunate.

It is the weekend... But things are still moving. We just unlocked the NPC.

I like this big box pledge. I don't have to help unlock fake goals, the initial pledge was discounted from retail, I don't need to check back every day to see that I need to fork out another 13-25$ if I want to be a completionist.

The issue is there is no one way to make everyone happy. For every 'gamer' who wants more unique heroes with 'gameplay content', this is someone asking to ditch legends and have a MINI ONLY pledge. For everyone who hates Gender-swaped, there is one who wants gender-swaped.

Now people are demanding 3D doors and furniture and others want more rules and card packs.

Every goal is going to be seen as 'worthless' by someone who will complain.

I think they have been hitting all groups by Rule only campaigns, Pets with new game content and genderswap minis only. Everyone who wants something gets something.

Best to just stay out of the KS Comments section, yes?

I imagine so.

Ended up going Dark Consul over Legendary as, although we like the new heroes, my wife really doesn't like the updated dragons, and it should hopefully be easy enough to get the starter at retail in the UK.

Agree on this being a better way to do it than TFK. I'm hoping they stick to it and we don't see any more pay to unlock stuff in the campaign (unless it's the aforesaid King Starfire, which we don't really need).