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 Grimmor wrote:
Guys, that thing is Grav Bait, its 600 points, and while it puts out a lot of Dakka, it is almost less durable than the Wraithknight, as its not gonna be getting a cover save. Kat Destroyers will wreck this thing.

It can claim a cover save just as easily as a Wraithknight.

For 1000 points Tyranids get a Hierophant with the exact same Toughness, Wounds and save, but only a 6++ and less weapons to boot, at a lower BS. For 35 points less, a Hierodule has significantly inferior stats.

It's ludicrously undercosted, despite Grav being the perfect counter for it (because, not every army has access to Grav).

Standard dual laser Warhound is, what, only 750 points? In a shooting match, who would kill who first? The Tau monster with all of its various guns, or the Warhound with 4 D templates?

With both an Invul Save and FNP, this model has about 20 effective wounds in the shooting phase.

Meanwhile, Aversion, a 1WC Psychic Power, turns this model into a 600pt paperweight.

Pure shooting armies without a toolbox are going to have a really hard time against this.

Frozocrone wrote:

For 1000 points Tyranids get a Hierophant with the exact same Toughness, Wounds and save, but only a 6++ and less weapons to boot, at a lower BS. For 35 points less, a Hierodule has significantly inferior stats.

It's ludicrously undercosted, despite Grav being the perfect counter for it (because, not every army has access to Grav).

Or, perhaps the Heirodule is ludicrously overcosted?

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Frozocrone wrote:

For 1000 points Tyranids get a Hierophant with the exact same Toughness, Wounds and save, but only a 6++ and less weapons to boot, at a lower BS. For 35 points less, a Hierodule has significantly inferior stats.

It's ludicrously undercosted, despite Grav being the perfect counter for it (because, not every army has access to Grav).

Or, perhaps the Heirodule is ludicrously overcosted?

Or perhaps both.

Ah what am I saying, Tau players will defend this to the bitter death. After all who are we in the lesser codex section to tell them when something is plainly broken.

dethric wrote:
Interesting. I would like to know what "Unstoppable" does and why the wording is "No cover saves" instead of "ignores cover"

probably to make it unabuseable with markerlights to reduce jink saves since they arent a cover save but are treated in the same fashion. or because in the new codex markerlight cant bring any cover saves down below a 6+ (or some other threshold) which would be pretty painful.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Let me fix the title for you...

It's going to mix things up a bit for sure... but who here is actually going to buy and field one?

A Tau player in my local club is already ordering one.... And he is thinking about making it two.

This thing is broken beyond belief. It is not a Knight Titan, it is a full blown Titan and yet it costs barely any more than a Knight would.

Remember; it can only fire 2 out of 4 weapons, it doesn't even have a multitracker.

It is not a full titan, although it is a little more survivable than a knight.

Oh, and jink is absolutely a cover save. I have no idea where you got the idea it wasn't; models with jink gain a cover save and only snap shot when the unit declares it is jinking(the whole unit does not have to have the jink rule in order to declare use but only the models with it can benefit, there are many bike and jetbike ICs out there for this wording)

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Frozocrone wrote:

For 1000 points Tyranids get a Hierophant with the exact same Toughness, Wounds and save, but only a 6++ and less weapons to boot, at a lower BS. For 35 points less, a Hierodule has significantly inferior stats.

It's ludicrously undercosted, despite Grav being the perfect counter for it (because, not every army has access to Grav).

Or, perhaps the Heirodule is ludicrously overcosted?

I'd probably agree with you more in this day and age. I was OK with 1000 when IA:4 2nd came out, with generic power creep it's a massive points sink for not much. I personally feel the Harridan is the best GC have at the minute.

As for your question, probably Warhound. 4 Strength D blasts would be tough to handle, even with 5++.

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Frozocrone wrote:

For 1000 points Tyranids get a Hierophant with the exact same Toughness, Wounds and save, but only a 6++ and less weapons to boot, at a lower BS. For 35 points less, a Hierodule has significantly inferior stats.

It's ludicrously undercosted, despite Grav being the perfect counter for it (because, not every army has access to Grav).

Or, perhaps the Heirodule is ludicrously overcosted?

I'd probably agree with you more in this day and age. I was OK with 1000 when IA:4 2nd came out, with generic power creep it's a massive points sink for not much. I personally feel the Harridan is the best GC have at the minute.

As for your question, probably Warhound. 4 Strength D blasts would be tough to handle, even with 5++.

4++ against shooting

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Frozocrone wrote:

For 1000 points Tyranids get a Hierophant with the exact same Toughness, Wounds and save, but only a 6++ and less weapons to boot, at a lower BS. For 35 points less, a Hierodule has significantly inferior stats.

It's ludicrously undercosted, despite Grav being the perfect counter for it (because, not every army has access to Grav).

Or, perhaps the Heirodule is ludicrously overcosted?

I'd probably agree with you more in this day and age. I was OK with 1000 when IA:4 2nd came out, with generic power creep it's a massive points sink for not much. I personally feel the Harridan is the best GC have at the minute.

As for your question, probably Warhound. 4 Strength D blasts would be tough to handle, even with 5++.

4++ against shooting

That changes the game.

Here's a quick 1000 point list my Tau friend just told me, under the current Codex

Ethereal
3x 6 Fire Warriors
1x 6 Pathfinders
Skyray w/ Blacksun Filter and Auto Repair System
Kx139

Yeah...he's a happy bunny right now.

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Grimmor wrote:
Guys, that thing is Grav Bait, its 600 points, and while it puts out a lot of Dakka, it is almost less durable than the Wraithknight, as its not gonna be getting a cover save. Kat Destroyers will wreck this thing.

It can claim a cover save just as easily as a Wraithknight.

For 1000 points Tyranids get a Hierophant with the exact same Toughness, Wounds and save, but only a 6++ and less weapons to boot, at a lower BS. For 35 points less, a Hierodule has significantly inferior stats.

It's ludicrously undercosted, despite Grav being the perfect counter for it (because, not every army has access to Grav).

Wait that stupid poke a toe in cover crap wasnt a Wraithknight Specific thing? Well thats just idiotic

Also yes, the Hierophant is horribly Overcosted, its also kinda old and needs to get looked at again.

On another note, WHY IS THIS THING A FRELLIN GC!!! There is a living pilot inside, that makes it a Superheavy Walker, in a world where Soul Grinders are Walkers, this thing needs to be a Walker.

It's also a world where Riptides are monstrous creatures and not walkers. You can't pick one example of a walker/MC in this game to compare something else too, because there's no rhyme or reason to it.

 Frozocrone wrote:

That changes the game.

Here's a quick 1000 point list my Tau friend just told me, under the current Codex

Ethereal
3x 6 Fire Warriors
1x 6 Pathfinders
Skyray w/ Blacksun Filter and Auto Repair System
Kx139

Yeah...he's a happy bunny right now.

If he does that, kindly state that you wouldn't be playing such stupidity. I'm a Tau player and I wouldn't use it for 2000p or smaller games, rules-testing aside. for 1/3 of its price you can get 3 Riptides, which already are a pain in the ass.

 ImAGeek wrote:
It's also a world where Riptides are monstrous creatures and not walkers. You can't pick one example of a walker/MC in this game to compare something else too, because there's no rhyme or reason to it.

That is also dumb, Riptides are Walkers. Full stop. The Wraithknight at least has an argument as to why it is a GC, as its basically an upgunned Wraithlord, but that really doesnt matter because GCs dont belong in Eldar or Tau armies (Tau are getting one exception)

GCs belong in Tyranid and Daemon armies, because thats what those two armies do, alos Orks get on because Squiggoths are a thing and i would make an exception for a really big Gnarloc for the Tau. Thats it. GC dont belong anywhere else because no one else field godzilla sized monstrosities that arent vehicles!

My main problem with GC are claiming cover saves like Infantry (I don't think MC, let alone GC should take Cover like Vehicles) and Stomp. Fix them and GC are fine.

 Grimmor wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
It's also a world where Riptides are monstrous creatures and not walkers. You can't pick one example of a walker/MC in this game to compare something else too, because there's no rhyme or reason to it.

That is also dumb, Riptides are Walkers. Full stop. The Wraithknight at least has an argument as to why it is a GC, as its basically an upgunned Wraithlord, but that really doesnt matter because GCs dont belong in Eldar or Tau armies (Tau are getting one exception)

GCs belong in Tyranid and Daemon armies, because thats what those two armies do, alos Orks get on because Squiggoths are a thing and i would make an exception for a really big Gnarloc for the Tau. Thats it. GC dont belong anywhere else because no one else field godzilla sized monstrosities that arent vehicles!

I know it's dumb, that was my point. It's all over the place.

I was pretty sure you and me agree on that point, i still needed to get that out as its driving me nuts.

 Grimmor wrote:
I was pretty sure you and me agree on that point, i still needed to get that out as its driving me nuts.

Haha see I actually wouldn't mind them being monstrous creatures or gargantuan creatures, if everything like that was. Or if they were all walkers. I think either choose one or the other, or actually have it make sense what each one is.

it is almost less durable than the Wraithknight

It does get a 4+ invulnerable save vs shooting, which can't be removed like cover saves can be, and which also provides protection from D weapons, so I'm not so sure about this assertion. It also has a greater effective range than a wraithknight.

I like the model, don't like the price tag, and think the rules are on the overpowered side.

Not to derail this thread here but, was it decided that GMCs could fire more than 2 weapons a turn? I know that there was a few YMDC threads on it a while a go.
Seems like FW intend this thing to be firing more than 2 weapons a turn is all.

Depends on your interpretation of 'can fire each weapon at different targets'

 master of ordinance wrote:

Spoiler:

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Frozocrone wrote:

For 1000 points Tyranids get a Hierophant with the exact same Toughness, Wounds and save, but only a 6++ and less weapons to boot, at a lower BS. For 35 points less, a Hierodule has significantly inferior stats.

It's ludicrously undercosted, despite Grav being the perfect counter for it (because, not every army has access to Grav).

Or, perhaps the Heirodule is ludicrously overcosted?

I'd probably agree with you more in this day and age. I was OK with 1000 when IA:4 2nd came out, with generic power creep it's a massive points sink for not much. I personally feel the Harridan is the best GC have at the minute.

As for your question, probably Warhound. 4 Strength D blasts would be tough to handle, even with 5++.

4++ against shooting

Which doesn't help against a roll of a 6 on the D table. Although, it still reduces the wounds it takes from that result...but then loses the shield entirely for a turn.

Hmm, I wonder how well a Knight Lancer would do. I've already been considering one as my standard choice, since there seem to be more and more targets for it these days.

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Grimmor wrote:
Guys, that thing is Grav Bait, its 600 points, and while it puts out a lot of Dakka, it is almost less durable than the Wraithknight, as its not gonna be getting a cover save. Kat Destroyers will wreck this thing.

It can claim a cover save just as easily as a Wraithknight.

For 1000 points Tyranids get a Hierophant with the exact same Toughness, Wounds and save, but only a 6++ and less weapons to boot, at a lower BS. For 35 points less, a Hierodule has significantly inferior stats.

It's ludicrously undercosted, despite Grav being the perfect counter for it (because, not every army has access to Grav).

Don't all gargantuans and warmachines have that rules that lets them ignore effects from any weapon without strenght stat?

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

Spoiler:

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Frozocrone wrote:

For 1000 points Tyranids get a Hierophant with the exact same Toughness, Wounds and save, but only a 6++ and less weapons to boot, at a lower BS. For 35 points less, a Hierodule has significantly inferior stats.

It's ludicrously undercosted, despite Grav being the perfect counter for it (because, not every army has access to Grav).

Or, perhaps the Heirodule is ludicrously overcosted?

I'd probably agree with you more in this day and age. I was OK with 1000 when IA:4 2nd came out, with generic power creep it's a massive points sink for not much. I personally feel the Harridan is the best GC have at the minute.

As for your question, probably Warhound. 4 Strength D blasts would be tough to handle, even with 5++.

4++ against shooting

Which doesn't help against a roll of a 6 on the D table. Although, it still reduces the wounds it takes from that result...but then loses the shield entirely for a turn.

Hmm, I wonder how well a Knight Lancer would do. I've already been considering one as my standard choice, since there seem to be more and more targets for it these days.

3 plus half a D6 worth of wounds - average of 5 wounds. Of which 3 will be saved. It helps a hell of a lot.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

Spoiler:

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Frozocrone wrote:

For 1000 points Tyranids get a Hierophant with the exact same Toughness, Wounds and save, but only a 6++ and less weapons to boot, at a lower BS. For 35 points less, a Hierodule has significantly inferior stats.

It's ludicrously undercosted, despite Grav being the perfect counter for it (because, not every army has access to Grav).

Or, perhaps the Heirodule is ludicrously overcosted?

I'd probably agree with you more in this day and age. I was OK with 1000 when IA:4 2nd came out, with generic power creep it's a massive points sink for not much. I personally feel the Harridan is the best GC have at the minute.

As for your question, probably Warhound. 4 Strength D blasts would be tough to handle, even with 5++.

4++ against shooting

Which doesn't help against a roll of a 6 on the D table. Although, it still reduces the wounds it takes from that result...but then loses the shield entirely for a turn.

Hmm, I wonder how well a Knight Lancer would do. I've already been considering one as my standard choice, since there seem to be more and more targets for it these days.

3 plus half a D6 worth of wounds - average of 5 wounds. Of which 3 will be saved. It helps a hell of a lot.

Those wounds cannot be saved.

I'm not too fussed over the rules at this point. It's FW experimental, which have a history of being far more powerful than the final version.

It's not experimental. No stamp.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Let me fix the title for you...

It's going to mix things up a bit for sure... but who here is actually going to buy and field one?

A Tau player in my local club is already ordering one.... And he is thinking about making it two.

This thing is broken beyond belief. It is not a Knight Titan, it is a full blown Titan and yet it costs barely any more than a Knight would.

LOW, so you can only have one in an army.

 Gamgee wrote:
It's not experimental. No stamp.

It's not outside the realm of possibility the stamp is just missing. It definitely feels experimental, and the book isn't out yet so even if it doesn't say experimental they still could change.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
It's not experimental. No stamp.

It's not outside the realm of possibility the stamp is just missing. It definitely feels experimental, and the book isn't out yet so even if it doesn't say experimental they still could change.

Could, being the key word there.

 Tyran wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

Spoiler:

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

Frozocrone wrote:

For 1000 points Tyranids get a Hierophant with the exact same Toughness, Wounds and save, but only a 6++ and less weapons to boot, at a lower BS. For 35 points less, a Hierodule has significantly inferior stats.

It's ludicrously undercosted, despite Grav being the perfect counter for it (because, not every army has access to Grav).

Or, perhaps the Heirodule is ludicrously overcosted?

I'd probably agree with you more in this day and age. I was OK with 1000 when IA:4 2nd came out, with generic power creep it's a massive points sink for not much. I personally feel the Harridan is the best GC have at the minute.

As for your question, probably Warhound. 4 Strength D blasts would be tough to handle, even with 5++.

4++ against shooting

Which doesn't help against a roll of a 6 on the D table. Although, it still reduces the wounds it takes from that result...but then loses the shield entirely for a turn.

Hmm, I wonder how well a Knight Lancer would do. I've already been considering one as my standard choice, since there seem to be more and more targets for it these days.

3 plus half a D6 worth of wounds - average of 5 wounds. Of which 3 will be saved. It helps a hell of a lot.

Those wounds cannot be saved.

The Shield halves the number of wounds taken from a "Deathblow" result on the D-weapon table, then stops working until the controlling players next turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Let me fix the title for you...

It's going to mix things up a bit for sure... but who here is actually going to buy and field one?

A Tau player in my local club is already ordering one.... And he is thinking about making it two.

This thing is broken beyond belief. It is not a Knight Titan, it is a full blown Titan and yet it costs barely any more than a Knight would.

LOW, so you can only have one in an army.

Two CADs = 2 LoW slots.