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So something has been bugging me about the Skitarii Vanguard... How much radiation do those guns even put out to be that lethal in a firefight? How radiated would they have to be to have the fluff accurate description the guns have?

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
So something has been bugging me about the Skitarii Vanguard... How much radiation do those guns even put out to be that lethal in a firefight? How radiated would they have to be to have the fluff accurate description the guns have?

Well the fluff says they basically get super cancer from it so a lot of radiation I would imagine.
Its probably contained and miniaturized nuclear fission.
Radiation depends on what element they use in the fission.
If the Admech cares about radiation, then they'd use radium which has a shorter half life of 4-6 years.
If they don't its probably Uranium-235, which lasts for fething ever. or around 15.7M years.

Well, considering the fact they are called radium carbines, I am pretty sure that they use radium.

 Mantorok wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
So something has been bugging me about the Skitarii Vanguard... How much radiation do those guns even put out to be that lethal in a firefight? How radiated would they have to be to have the fluff accurate description the guns have?

Well the fluff says they basically get super cancer from it so a lot of radiation I would imagine.
Its probably contained and miniaturized nuclear fission.
Radiation depends on what element they use in the fission.
If the Admech cares about radiation, then they'd use radium which has a shorter half life of 4-6 years.
If they don't its probably Uranium-235, which lasts for fething ever. or around 15.7M years.

Well tbf, if it's lethal enough to kill people by shooting at them... you're not going to be dying from cancer but from radiation sickness itself. They shouldn't live long enough to develop life-threatening cancers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acute_radiation_syndrome

In my Head-Canon I see Vanguards pointing weapons at people who then fall over incapacitated by; migraines, severe vomiting, etc, who are then left to die a slow death by Acute radiation syndrome.

Greater than 10 Sieverts considering that is a lethal dose of radiation for a human. If I had to guess, considering that this is 40k, it would probably be in the hundreds of Sieverts. Just to ensure the thing they shoot at dies.

In our time we can enrich elements immensely. In 40k, they would be able to super enrich elements to be hyper radioactive.

 Otto Weston wrote:

 Mantorok wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
So something has been bugging me about the Skitarii Vanguard... How much radiation do those guns even put out to be that lethal in a firefight? How radiated would they have to be to have the fluff accurate description the guns have?

Well the fluff says they basically get super cancer from it so a lot of radiation I would imagine.
Its probably contained and miniaturized nuclear fission.
Radiation depends on what element they use in the fission.
If the Admech cares about radiation, then they'd use radium which has a shorter half life of 4-6 years.
If they don't its probably Uranium-235, which lasts for fething ever. or around 15.7M years.

Well tbf, if it's lethal enough to kill people by shooting at them... you're not going to be dying from cancer but from radiation sickness itself. They shouldn't live long enough to develop life-threatening cancers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acute_radiation_syndrome

In my Head-Canon I see Vanguards pointing weapons at people who then fall over incapacitated by; migraines, severe vomiting, etc, who are then left to die a slow death by Acute radiation syndrome.

But how would they work against Necrons that don't have bodies? Or Daemons? Why would they get sick?

I imagine that is the final fate of the Vanguards, not the enemies.

 Mantorok wrote:

 Otto Weston wrote:

 Mantorok wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
So something has been bugging me about the Skitarii Vanguard... How much radiation do those guns even put out to be that lethal in a firefight? How radiated would they have to be to have the fluff accurate description the guns have?

Well the fluff says they basically get super cancer from it so a lot of radiation I would imagine.
Its probably contained and miniaturized nuclear fission.
Radiation depends on what element they use in the fission.
If the Admech cares about radiation, then they'd use radium which has a shorter half life of 4-6 years.
If they don't its probably Uranium-235, which lasts for fething ever. or around 15.7M years.

Well tbf, if it's lethal enough to kill people by shooting at them... you're not going to be dying from cancer but from radiation sickness itself. They shouldn't live long enough to develop life-threatening cancers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acute_radiation_syndrome

In my Head-Canon I see Vanguards pointing weapons at people who then fall over incapacitated by; migraines, severe vomiting, etc, who are then left to die a slow death by Acute radiation syndrome.

But how would they work against Necrons that don't have bodies? Or Daemons? Why would they get sick?

I imagine that is the final fate of the Vanguards, not the enemies.

Well radiation is actually harmful to robotics. Why do you think the Fukushima reactor leak has been such a problem? Robots they sent in stopped working pretty darn quickly, they had to result to using sacrificial old people to get emergency work done.

Now regarding Daemons... you could ask that question about any weapon that supposedly hurts them. If they get hurt by explosive mini - missiles (bolts), why not massive amounts of radiation?

They don't shoot just radiation. They fire bullets too.

 Otto Weston wrote:

 Mantorok wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
So something has been bugging me about the Skitarii Vanguard... How much radiation do those guns even put out to be that lethal in a firefight? How radiated would they have to be to have the fluff accurate description the guns have?

Well the fluff says they basically get super cancer from it so a lot of radiation I would imagine.
Its probably contained and miniaturized nuclear fission.
Radiation depends on what element they use in the fission.
If the Admech cares about radiation, then they'd use radium which has a shorter half life of 4-6 years.
If they don't its probably Uranium-235, which lasts for fething ever. or around 15.7M years.

Well tbf, if it's lethal enough to kill people by shooting at them... you're not going to be dying from cancer but from radiation sickness itself. They shouldn't live long enough to develop life-threatening cancers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acute_radiation_syndrome

In my Head-Canon I see Vanguards pointing weapons at people who then fall over incapacitated by; migraines, severe vomiting, etc, who are then left to die a slow death by Acute radiation syndrome.

Thats how I imagine them working. They cause very rapid radiation sickness. Realistically, it would take at least 10-12 seconds for this to work once you got "hit". It would be a horribly effective area denial weapon.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Thats how I imagine them working. They cause very rapid radiation sickness. Realistically, it would take at least 10-12 seconds for this to work once you got "hit". It would be a horribly effective area denial weapon.

Area denial? Ofc... the bodies would be intensely radioactive. No one would want to go anywhere near that part of the game board, not even the Skitarii/Mechanicus themself.

Area denial in the same way Machine Guns are. You can keep an area saturated with constant radiation and prevent them from getting past you.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Area denial in the same way Machine Guns are. You can keep an area saturated with constant radiation and prevent them from getting past you.

Better at holding the line than IG.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Area denial in the same way Machine Guns are. You can keep an area saturated with constant radiation and prevent them from getting past you.

Unlike MG fire you can't lift it when you need to though... So it makes a very impractical area denial weapon. Especially bad if you are supposed to advance into positions later etc.

Thats not necessarily true. It depends on how its delivering the radiation. The fallout from nuclear bombs only sticks around so long because of the radioactive particles. If Radium Carbines only generate Beta and Gamma radiation the effected areas wouldn't be terribly radiated once you stopped.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Thats not necessarily true. It depends on how its delivering the radiation. The fallout from nuclear bombs only sticks around so long because of the radioactive particles. If Radium Carbines only generate Beta and Gamma radiation the effected areas wouldn't be terribly radiated once you stopped.

So then it works the same as an MG... you need to keep shooting the area for it to work?

Sounds far more complex than an MG etc. It's usually better to be practical.

Definitely more complicated, but the radiation "bullets" might be cheaper individually.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Definitely more complicated, but the radiation "bullets" might be cheaper individually.

True, however in this setting we can also have MG lasers will are probably cheaper than bullets too. I am unconvinced in the ability of these new radium guns personally.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Definitely more complicated, but the radiation "bullets" might be cheaper individually.

True, however in this setting we can also have MG lasers will are probably cheaper than bullets too. I am unconvinced in the ability of these new radium guns personally.

The Mechanicus is all about efficiency... I wouldn't be surprised if the radioactive substance they put into their radium guns (probably radium xD) is merely a waste product that they've found a use for.

In regards to ability, in a way they'd be a lot more terrifying than an MG. Even if you just get winged by one, you're going to suffer and probably die... and depending on the type of radiation they release they could have a lot more penetration than an MG.

These are awesome responses guys, quite the discussion I wanted!

Now, how long does the radiation last depending on the Radium bullets or other substances? do they last for generations and make the world unlivable?

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
These are awesome responses guys, quite the discussion I wanted!

Now, how long does the radiation last depending on the Radium bullets or other substances? do they last for generations and make the world unlivable?

Okay so it is radium, which I'm assuming since that's the name of the carbine.

Pierre Curie attached a Radium tube to his arm for ten hours and barely got a lesion.
Madam Curie may have died from being around it for decades.
Several women died from ingesting radium-based luminescent paint.

The weapons likely aren't based around nuclear fission, since we have reactors that do that, and we use other elements that have more energy output on fission.
I have no idea why they've chosen Radium.

So for the numbers, I've done a lot of fething research on this so appreciate it.

There are various types of radium. I'll list them out here.

Radium-223
5.99 MeV(MegaElectronVolt)
Radium-224
5.789 MeV
Radium-225
0.356 MeV
Radium-226
4.871 MeV
Radium-228
0.046 MeV

You may be wondering why I put the MegaElectronVolt levels, and what they are.
Well those numbers are the natural amount of natural energy output by the Isotopes of Radium.
1 MeV is equal to = 1.60217662 × 10-13 joules
The way to find out the Sievert levels is by using the equation J*kg-1.
So for Radium-223 1kg would be .000000000000959598 Sieverts
A 1 Sievert dose causes radiation sickness such as nausea, vomiting, hemorrhaging, but not death. A single dose of 5 Sieverts would kill about half of those exposed to it within a month.
10 will kill you instantly.
So mere exposure to the Radium won't kill you, but there are other safer and better alternatives on nearly every front.

As long as the plot requires it to. Kreig is still an irradiated hell-hole, after all.

 Mantorok wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
These are awesome responses guys, quite the discussion I wanted!

Now, how long does the radiation last depending on the Radium bullets or other substances? do they last for generations and make the world unlivable?

Okay so it is radium, which I'm assuming since that's the name of the carbine.

Pierre Curie attached a Radium tube to his arm for ten hours and barely got a lesion.
Madam Curie may have died from being around it for decades.
Several women died from ingesting radium-based luminescent paint.

The weapons likely aren't based around nuclear fission, since we have reactors that do that, and we use other elements that have more energy output on fission.
I have no idea why they've chosen Radium.

So for the numbers, I've done a lot of fething research on this so appreciate it.

There are various types of radium. I'll list them out here.

Radium-223
5.99 MeV(MegaElectronVolt)
Radium-224
5.789 MeV
Radium-225
0.356 MeV
Radium-226
4.871 MeV
Radium-228
0.046 MeV

You may be wondering why I put the MegaElectronVolt levels, and what they are.
Well those numbers are the natural amount of natural energy output by the Isotopes of Radium.
1 MeV is equal to = 1.60217662 × 10-13 joules
The way to find out the Sievert levels is by using the equation J*kg-1.
So for Radium-223 1kg would be .000000000000959598 Sieverts
A 1 Sievert dose causes radiation sickness such as nausea, vomiting, hemorrhaging, but not death. A single dose of 5 Sieverts would kill about half of those exposed to it within a month.
10 will kill you instantly.
So mere exposure to the Radium won't kill you, but there are other safer and better alternatives on nearly every front.

Thats awesome man! Thank You! So what do you think about the effectiveness of them in bullets like the skitarii use, if in fact they use radium?

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

Thats awesome man! Thank You! So what do you think about the effectiveness of them in bullets like the skitarii use, if in fact they use radium?

It depends on how they shoot the Radium I suppose. If they're firing Melted Radium it has a melting point of 1760F/960C, but that's just a melta gun.
It could be nuclear fission/fusion output shot from the Radium, but since we don't utilize that element in our own nuclear reactors, I can't ascertain what the level of energy output would be.
That might as well be a plasma gun though.
No matter what its basically a mini-nuke, but we use Uranium-238 cause its a stronger energy output.
Fired solid shot, that amount of Radium in a bullet would, over time, definitely give a biological organism cancer and radiation sickness, but it needs to be left in.
Tyranids and Orks (who I don't imagine would remove the bullets) would be the most susceptible to this form of elongated radiation murder.

Remember however that Radium Isotopes aren't nearly as deadly as its half life producer Radon Gas.
So depending on the Isotope (which I'll list out below) the half-life will eventually produce a deadly gas.

Ra-223
11.43 Days
Ra-224
3.6319 Days
Ra-225
14.9 Days
Ra-226
1600 years
Ra-228
5.75 Years

Sorry you wanted to know about effectiveness.
The fact of the matter is that I don't know what tech they're utilizing, maybe it makes Radium an effective weapon, or maybe they have access to a HUGE amount of Radium, or its a byproduct of another process they have and the Admech is trying to maintain a low footprint.
Either way, with the knowledge we have in the 3rd Millennium, its not effective as there are other, better alternatives.

 Psienesis wrote:
As long as the plot requires it to. Kreig is still an irradiated hell-hole, after all.

Well, Krieg was hit with basically a ton of modern nukes, which leave a lot of particles behind that continually decay and release radiation for thousands of years.

If you have a weapon that converts 100%(or close to it) of its fission/fusion-able material into energy you won't have this kind of problem. If the Radium Carbine only emits pure radiation then there isn't going to be lingering radiation.

My guess is the Radium Carbine has nothing to do with actual Radium, they just chose the name because its cool.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
As long as the plot requires it to. Kreig is still an irradiated hell-hole, after all.

Well, Krieg was hit with basically a ton of modern nukes, which leave a lot of particles behind that continually decay and release radiation for thousands of years.

If you have a weapon that converts 100%(or close to it) of its fission/fusion-able material into energy you won't have this kind of problem. If the Radium Carbine only emits pure radiation then there isn't going to be lingering radiation.

My guess is the Radium Carbine has nothing to do with actual Radium, they just chose the name because its cool.

Good job Mantorok on the reasearch!

Alright, I agree with you, as it may not be radium if it has the instant effects. assuming for solid round ammunition, what would give us the almost instant death the profile tells us about, much less the "locallized Rad Storm" the profile said to have.

Indeed. In fact, so much knowledge has been lost that it is possible that 'radium' means something different to 40k peeps than to us, much like how their 'steel' is way better than our 'steel' (because ours can't gold up hives!)

It's a gun that shoots radioactive bullets. Over time the wielder gets cancer from residual effects.

There's not much to it than that. 40k weapons are not high in science.

In the description for the weapon it says " Each weapon's bullet cylinder is so thoroughly bathed in radium that a volley can cause a localised rad-storm. Those inside soon find their flesh blackening and sloughing away".
So to me this means that their cylinder is either made of radium, electroplated (if that's possible with radium) with radium or keep near a bunch until it becomes radioactive and then when firing sometimes the localized radiation of the area they are hitting spikes to the point were it quickly starts killing.

Just as a side note, I am making an educated guess that the transuranic arquebus is essentially firing depleted uranium rounds via linear acceleration. Explains armourbane USR?

Who says the Tau have the monopoly on man portable rail guns!