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RoninXiC wrote:
Yeah, poor Americans... that's what we Europeans had to deal with for quite some time.

Yep, and I have no doubt it has cost some US-based projects a lot money over the years. However, most of those projects didn't have those international backers down as a major funding source over multiple projects. Mantic did, and while they have clearly decided that the costs just can't be stomached anymore, it's going to have a much more profound impact on their bottom line than other projects who had already written off having any sort of large international funding.

For one of their flagship games, it would have made more sense for Mantic to have a solution to that problem figured out before the KS. It just feeds into the premise that they didn't really plan on doing WP at this time. This also doesn't boost confidence given the other stories detailed here and Mantic's history in general. Like I said though, that's a boost for US retailers I suppose? If Mantic can entice any of them anyway...

Also, reveling that others now have it as bad as you do is probably not the ideal way of resolving inequality.

I can hear the dull thuds of the 6x4 mats being dropped from Stateside pledges as people try and guess what the shipping on that would be.

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
I can hear the dull thuds of the 6x4 mats being dropped from Stateside pledges as people try and guess what the shipping on that would be.

I'm still interested in that, but you are correct that the money for that is not in my KS pledge pending how much it actually costs.

The only sensible option would be to cut it up into smaller sections and then post it over Sticky tape included free.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Over 1000 backers at the $1 mark. That's unusually high.

If most of them are like me, they wanted a cheap set of rulebook PDFs.

 Krinsath wrote:
it would have made more sense for Mantic to have a solution to that problem figured out before the KS

I too am looking forward to Mantic's solution to endemic political corruption, crony capitalism, the undermining of labor laws, legalised avoidance of taxes, and the corporate fueled destruction of public services and infrastructure.

Should be a doozy!

So Mantic put together a Marauder package of all the previously released Deadzone stuff... was there that much demand for old Marauder sculpts?

Yeah, people have been asking for them.

I'd like to get the Asterian Flyer Upgrade.. that would be nice.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
So Mantic put together a Marauder package of all the previously released Deadzone stuff... was there that much demand for old Marauder sculpts?

Maybe, maybe not. Doesn't hurt to add it though.

 NTRabbit wrote:

 Krinsath wrote:
it would have made more sense for Mantic to have a solution to that problem figured out before the KS

I too am looking forward to Mantic's solution to endemic political corruption, crony capitalism, the undermining of labor laws, legalised avoidance of taxes, and the corporate fueled destruction of public services and infrastructure.

Should be a doozy!

You make it sound like Mantic will have failed if they don't solve all the world's problems. There's a vast gulf between "what would fix everything" and "what Mantic could be doing"; perfect is the enemy of good and all that.

Finding a distribution partner isn't the most difficult thing in the world; if a small company in NY can manage to do it for the EU, Mantic should be able to wing it for the US. That's not to say it'd make shipping dramatically cheaper due to the order complexities Mantic allows, but that'd be on Mantic, wouldn't it? It's also going to be something they're going to need sooner or later if they realistically expect to maintain growth; either their own presence or a partnership.

Again, this is a flagship game for them, and they certainly want to sell it to a region that accounts for about a quarter of their market segment leader's income. To allow barriers like that to come up shows a lack of foresight, or, more likely, trying to hurry to do something before they're really ready to do it. Again, that's been one of Mantic's stumbling blocks for quite a while.

The description of Marauders in the last update doesn't seem to relate very closely to the goofy models.
Are Marauders being revamped down the road?

Dropped my pledge. Just not willing to fork over $150+ on shipping and run the risk of import duties on top of that for something I won't see for a year.

If I still want it at retail, I'll buy it at 20-30% off and get it shipped immediately for free.

And before anyone says "minis are duty exempt in the US", yes, they are, but many of us still got bills for importing our KoW stuff.

That is big Alex, you have been a very vocal supporter of the project and seemed excited by a lot of the options. You have also been great in the KS comments. I completely forgot about the issues with import duty that some people had on the last KS fulfillment from Mantic and they do not seem to have addressed that elephant in the room.

 Vermis wrote:


The news that with Mantic burning through sculptors at a quick rate, future Mantic minis might be more miss than hit? There have been plenty of misses in this KS already, whether you agree or not, and the message that the concepts and quality will not be stabilising and improving in the foreseeable future is a pertinent one, I feel.

LOL. "Whether you agree or not, my opinion is more right than yours". LOL. The message to YOU might be concepts/quality is not stabilizing. That's your -opinion-... whether you agree or not.

Ultimately - there's two sides to every story, and we're hearing only one. I guess I just don't see how it pertains to the KS, and it's just the rantings of a guy with an axe to grind. Very unprofessional, in my book.

-Mort

 Mort wrote:

 Vermis wrote:


The news that with Mantic burning through sculptors at a quick rate, future Mantic minis might be more miss than hit? There have been plenty of misses in this KS already, whether you agree or not, and the message that the concepts and quality will not be stabilising and improving in the foreseeable future is a pertinent one, I feel.

LOL. "Whether you agree or not, my opinion is more right than yours". LOL. The message to YOU might be concepts/quality is not stabilizing. That's your -opinion-... whether you agree or not.

Ultimately - there's two sides to every story, and we're hearing only one. I guess I just don't see how it pertains to the KS, and it's just the rantings of a guy with an axe to grind. Very unprofessional, in my book.

-Mort

It pertains because it's providing some context to one of the repeated criticisms of Mantic where there is a general unevenness to the models where some are great, and others are noticeably less so. Execution even after the sculpting is similarly hit-or-miss such as making a transparent team in DBX, then making the MVP opaque. When pledging sight-unseen a year in advance, that's good information to have as to why those themes seem to occur.

On the flip side, you are correct that it needs to be run through the filter of someone who feels slighted by Mantic and freely admits that to be the case. That can be a significant skewing factor, and may make the information exaggerated. Thus, it's more a prompt for further investigation than an "OH GOD RUN AWAY" scenario. Really, that sort of investigation should be part of the due diligence any backer would be well advised to undertake for any project, never mind who's running it.

Someone asked if people had been asking for Marauder sculpts from DZ.

Well.. I don't actually think that's what they were asking for. I "think" they were asking for hard plastic Marauders that would hopefully be sculpted better (like pretty much everything that has gone to HIPS) plus vehicle kits and general support for the range. That is not the same thing as asking for existing Marauders.. Almost Mantic.. almost..

 Krinsath wrote:
You make it sound like Mantic will have failed if they don't solve all the world's problems..

No, i'm pointing out you're blaming Mantic for not solving a problem so ridiculously out of their control. Welcome to what the rest of the world deals with, America, enjoy your stay. The least we can do after your poisonous Reagan-era politics leaked out and caused much of this in the first place.

International postage is expensive, has increased dramatically in recent years, and cannot be circumvented by any of the tiny companies in this industry, because only places of such breathtaking size and kickback ability can meet the scale and legislative influence needed to drive prices down, ie Amazon.

Is it just me or did Mantic just guarantee that most American backers will have a chance to try out Gates of Antares and MEdge, and fall in love, before they even have a chance at buying Warpath KS figures through retail? God help them if WGF's planned sci fi range drops between now and then.


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 NTRabbit wrote:

 Krinsath wrote:
You make it sound like Mantic will have failed if they don't solve all the world's problems..

No, i'm pointing out you're blaming Mantic for not solving a problem so ridiculously out of their control. Welcome to what the rest of the world deals with, America, enjoy your stay. The least we can do after your poisonous Reagan-era politics leaked out and caused much of this in the first place.

You are missing the nuances of the situation. Culturally, free shipping is to America what free health care is to the rest of the developed world.

 NTRabbit wrote:

 Krinsath wrote:
You make it sound like Mantic will have failed if they don't solve all the world's problems..

No, i'm pointing out you're blaming Mantic for not solving a problem so ridiculously out of their control. Welcome to what the rest of the world deals with, America, enjoy your stay. The least we can do after your poisonous Reagan-era politics leaked out and caused much of this in the first place.

International postage is expensive, has increased dramatically in recent years, and cannot be circumvented by any of the tiny companies in this industry, because only places of such breathtaking size and kickback ability can meet the scale and legislative influence needed to drive prices down, ie Amazon.

Again, in your mildly irrelevant trashing of conservatism you miss that there are numerous companies who have the infrastructure to lower shipping costs to consumers, including GW. Sure, some of them are orders of magnitude larger than Mantic, but it's not some unknowable process so much as one that Mantic doesn't have a handle on. You don't need the money to afford an elected representative to set up a logistics chain, as companies do it regularly. While that is by no means "easy" nor "simple" it is something Mantic will need to do, either internally or through partnership, if they want to sit at the big kid's table in the market.

I don't dispute that international shipping is a horrendous cost nor am I saying that Mantic must do these things now; they may be entirely happy with how the campaign has gone and bully for them if they are. I'm saying that these things are not impossible to have sorted out and Mantic's own language implies that they are looking into doing just that. For a core product, why is that uncertainty there? Why was that not sorted out so there's not the "plan on $90, but maybe it'll be less"? This speaks to what was suspected that Mantic is trying to step up their timetable and didn't have all their ducks in a row. However, Mantic tends to not do particularly well when they rush their logistics, which is another repeated criticism of the company.

 NTRabbit wrote:

No, i'm pointing out you're blaming Mantic for not solving a problem so ridiculously out of their control. Welcome to what the rest of the world deals with, America, enjoy your stay. The least we can do after your poisonous Reagan-era politics leaked out and caused much of this in the first place.

I've seen some pretty ridiculous (and mostly joking) blame Obama memes but your blame Reagan! blurb beats them all... combined. Yes, let's blame a dead president from the Cold War for why Mantic is charging so much for shipping today for this kickstarter instead of absorbing the cost since they're cutting out most of the middle men like the previous half dozen kickstarters. Can you please take the politically charged speech based more in pudding than fact over to the off topic forum instead of this thread?

If they manage that American hub, I'm guessing those import fees won't be a worry either.

 warboss wrote:

Mantic is charging so much for shipping today for this kickstarter instead of absorbing the cost since they're cutting out most of the middle men like the previous half dozen kickstarters.

The politics of Reagan, the worst President you ever had, along with those of Thatcher, have badly poisoned the anglosphere, and they directly inspired the "third way" conservatism of John Howard, Tony Blair, David Cameron, Stephen Harper, and numerous other infamous conservatives largely responsible for many ills, including devastating the postal services in order to hand them over to courier firms.

Mantic, nor any other minis company, are not responsible for the shipping prices, have never been responsible for the shipping prices, and to any American who thinks they deserve special entitlements and most of the shipping absorbed because ~reasons~ while the rest of us have been eating it all so you can get free domestic shipping on US projects since Kickstarter began, the answer is no.

For what it's worth, Exalting all of NTRabbit's posts. And I'd definitely add Thatcher to the wall of shame.

But it is what it is. At least Mantic were honest and provided the estimates up front, not all KS do that.

Yeah I appreciate the thing about shipping. I was over extending on this and heavier shipping fees will help me limit what I purchase when the pledge manager does roll around. UT up for grabs if they were getting scarce.

They're still probably gonna get a couple hundred bucks before its over and I'll probably still get some of the stuff at retail but... its getting to be time of year to watch spending anyway and over 500 is a bit different from 425, too much now.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
For what it's worth, Exalting all of NTRabbit's posts. And I'd definitely add Thatcher to the wall of shame.

But it is what it is. At least Mantic were honest and provided the estimates up front, not all KS do that.

I wonder what sort of lesson Mantic is learning...

...oops, never mind this post...

 Azazelx wrote:

 scarletsquig wrote:
Mantic's hard plastic sci-fi models are excellent, details, extra parts and overall quality are just as good as GW.

Wow. No. Just.... no.


They're getting better, but... no.

Yeah... GW set a new standard with the Stormcast Eternal kits. Even if you don't like their aesthetic, they are superbly tooled.

I don't think it's wise for anyone who would be adversely affected by a $100 shipping fee to spend over $500 on minis at once anyway, but people are free to make their own decisions!


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 judgedoug wrote:
Yeah... GW set a new standard with the Stormcast Eternal kits. Even if you don't like their aesthetic, they are superbly tooled.

Horribly designed though. Square butt chaos guys, Stomfront eternals who ate all the pies, and then more of the pies, guys with bows who can't see where they're shooting, clear signs that they're down to a very shallow talent pool of sculptors who rely heavily on CAD lifting them up to the minimum standards, eg overuse of repetitive details, bad posing, poor knowledge of anatomy. High quality work on the steel moulds by engineers and machines doesn't make up for that.

 Alex C wrote:
Dropped my pledge. Just not willing to fork over $150+ on shipping and run the risk of import duties on top of that for something I won't see for a year.

If I still want it at retail, I'll buy it at 20-30% off and get it shipped immediately for free.

And before anyone says "minis are duty exempt in the US", yes, they are, but many of us still got bills for importing our KoW stuff.

Hope you stay In at $1, free rules. I dropped out then remembered the PDFs

 lord_blackfang wrote:
For what it's worth, Exalting all of NTRabbit's posts. And I'd definitely add Thatcher to the wall of shame.

But it is what it is. At least Mantic were honest and provided the estimates up front, not all KS do that.

The estimates are a nice bit of realism/honesty from a Kickstarter, a strangely rare thing. One wonders what the total would currently have been had they not released the shipping estimates.

Who is Thatcher?