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 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Heavy Bolters and Warp Spiders were -2 hardly "pretty much death".

The thing is, there were also modifiers on the "to-hit" roll as well. It wasn't a 3+ freeforall like we have now. It was harder to hit and harder to save against. Cover was WAY more important to everybody, not just troops with gak armor. Anything in the open was DEAD. Which makes sense for the types of weapons in the game.

The problem with the 2nd Ed rules though was that the game devolved into a static waitathon with everyone hugging cover and on overwatch. It could get real boring real fast! I actually quite like the curernt armour save mechanic as it emcourages infantry dressed as tanks to act like tanks. The problem is that the armies with infantry dressed like tanks can have sooooo may of them then all other armies need to have anti-infantry-tank weapons in order to have half a chance and that devalues the whole shebang.

I played Orks in 2nd (now I play Guard) and it was just fun. You could give your "warlord" a variable number of Wargear cards, and "warlords" had no restrictions on what they could take. So I took my Ork Warboss "Skullkrakka" in Mega Armor, with a Jump Pack and just jumped him near whatever I wanted to die. Usually vehicles, as a power klaw was Strength 8 + D12 + D6 (if I recall correctly) so it was almost a guaranteed penetration. He got several of those attacks, too (5 (or 6 when charging) I think). Of course, he would then die to a multi-melta or lascannon or something. But it was good times.

And the Shokk Attack Gun was pretty damn fun! It fired Squigs into enemy vehicles!

ziggurattt wrote:
I played Orks in 2nd (now I play Guard) and it was just fun. You could give your "warlord" a variable number of Wargear cards, and "warlords" had no restrictions on what they could take. So I took my Ork Warboss "Skullkrakka" in Mega Armor, with a Jump Pack and just jumped him near whatever I wanted to die. Usually vehicles, as a power klaw was Strength 8 + D12 + D6 (if I recall correctly) so it was almost a guaranteed penetration. He got several of those attacks, too (5 (or 6 when charging) I think). Of course, he would then die to a multi-melta or lascannon or something. But it was good times.

And the Shokk Attack Gun was pretty damn fun! It fired Squigs into enemy vehicles!

powerfist did d6+d20+8

The Shokk Attack Gun fired Snotlings.

In my one foray into marines, it was either Blood Angels or standard marines, My Assault Squad all had Chain swords and powerfists. Chainswords for the free parry and powerfists for dealing the damage. They were a tough unit.

That was definitely the optimum standard ccw loadout.

Yeah, one of the two Space Wolf 'power builds' was an army entirely made up of jump packing Blood Claws with chainsword/powerfist.

Wasn't quite as ridiculous as the Wolf Guard 'Cyclone/Assault Cannon Terminator Army of Doom', but came close.

 docdoom77 wrote:

ziggurattt wrote:
I played Orks in 2nd (now I play Guard) and it was just fun. You could give your "warlord" a variable number of Wargear cards, and "warlords" had no restrictions on what they could take. So I took my Ork Warboss "Skullkrakka" in Mega Armor, with a Jump Pack and just jumped him near whatever I wanted to die. Usually vehicles, as a power klaw was Strength 8 + D12 + D6 (if I recall correctly) so it was almost a guaranteed penetration. He got several of those attacks, too (5 (or 6 when charging) I think). Of course, he would then die to a multi-melta or lascannon or something. But it was good times.

And the Shokk Attack Gun was pretty damn fun! It fired Squigs into enemy vehicles!

powerfist did d6+d20+8

The Shokk Attack Gun fired Snotlings.

Right, thanks!

Ffyllotek wrote:
I used to love the parry rules. Combat would go on for several hours...

I saw many an army with two swords on every CC mini.


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 CrashGordon94 wrote:
I heard about that.

Are the remaining cards going for huge prices on eBay now?

I still have mine, waiting.....

blaktoof wrote:
2nd edition was all about removing models from the table.

Things died, easily and a lot.

The vehicles has "more realistic" movement with stationary + iirc 3 movement speeds which determined how many turns they could do, and there was a turn thing for wheeling vehicles, instead of pivotting about the center.

Not that 2nd ed was any more realistic; vehicles pivoted around the inside front corner, which meant the tail swung out wildly. If anything, pivoting around the centre is better, especially for tracked vehicles.

1st edition did it "best", with the "turn radius ratio" stat, but that was a fiddly mess and was ditched early on.

They introduced a more realistic turn template in the Journal-
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There were a lot of new rules in the Citadel Journal, which would have made for a good 3rd edition!

 obithius wrote:

There were a lot of new rules in the Citadel Journal, which would have made for a good 3rd edition!

Actually that's what they were going to do if I'm not mistaken, but the higher-ups wanted a "new" game which would need double the amount of models to be played, and thus 3rd edition became what we know today.

Relapse wrote:

I still have mine, waiting.....

Don't blame you, would've done the same myself!

 Gamgee wrote:
I just got into 40k about a year ago with Tau. Those minis are so ugly. They look like toys lol. I think some people have too much nostalgia goggles.

Abaddon, Ahriman, Kharn, Eldrad, the Phoenix Lords, Azrael, Dante, Corbulo, Captain Tycho, Mephiston, Ulrik the Slayer, Ragnar Blackmane, Njal in power armour, Calgar in his Artificer armour.

What you call ugly others refer to as iconic.

These characters have been seriously influential in the directions their respective model ranges took - the design of the weapons and armour, the general pose and even any adorning bits of jewelry or trinkets. They have aged remarkably well and with the exception of some size issues (mainly in the SM models) do NOT look out of place with their modern counterparts.

You just got into 40k a year ago with tau...and you call miniatures that are in some cases probably older than you (in other words they were around before your parents...got it on as it were) and still look exceptional 'ugly'.

Get back in your box son.

And that's before I acknowledge the influence that the 2nd ed. Tyranids had on their current range (the Hive Tyrant is a glorious nod to his 2nd ed. grandpappy).

Man the Harlequins Kiss in 2nd Ed was boss
I cant remember the stats but i do know that you made a special roll to see what would happen to the crew of a tank
1. was nothing (i think)
2-3. one crewman killed (i think you got to pick, nowadays you would refer to this as Weapon Destroyed and Immobilized)
4-5. 2 Crewmen Killed (not sure if you picked)
6. All crewmen inside the tank are killed (stupidly fun on larger tanks)


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Man the Harlequins Kiss in 2nd Ed was boss
I cant remember the stats but i do know that you made a special roll to see what would happen to the crew of a tank
1. was nothing (i think)
2-3. one crewman killed (i think you got to pick, nowadays you would refer to this as Weapon Destroyed and Immobilized)
4-5. 2 Crewmen Killed (not sure if you picked)
6. All crewmen inside the tank are killed (stupidly fun on larger tanks)

Hit a Baneblade and roll a 6

I'm going to Warhammer World in April with my 2nd ed-style Ultramarines. I'll be wearing my Mudhoney shirt, you can count on that

Lasguns could hurt a 2+ save on 2d6. Lasguns had a -1 save modifier (nearly every basic weapon did, which was the main problem with the save modifier system at the time, modifiers should have been reserved for special and heavy weapons).

Termies were 3+ on 2d6 not 2+.
So lasguns could kill them - snakes eyes or 2 + 1. Poof.
Statistically difficult but no more than these days with 2++ et al.

The problem with the 2nd Ed rules though was that the game devolved into a static waitathon with everyone hugging cover and on overwatch.

Fully agree mate.

 Ratius wrote:

Termies were 3+ on 2d6 not 2+.

The 2+ was referring to berzerkers, not regular terminators.

I don't remember if they were a 2 or 3... The mark of Khorne entry in the codex is slightly ambiguous, and if it was FAQd, it's all and truly been lost in the dim fogginess of encroaching senility...

Khorne termies were 2+ but still failed on a roll of snake eyes. Much like a 1+ save in WHFB it was there for the inevitable modifiers.

Now I kinda wish I could play the older editions. Sadly I got into it 6th edition and nobody at my store wants to bother with the older stuff

I refuse to believe that 2nd edition couldn't be hugely fun played today. Like anything, its best between two good buddies who want to have a fun afternoon. There were no more shenanigans than in 7th edition, you just need a gentleman's agreement to not go that route.

Personally im still burned out on 2nd ed. It was truly a terrible rules set.

I've played two games of 2nd ed in the last few weeks, and had a great time. Wouldn't say it was truly terrible.

 obithius wrote:
I've played two games of 2nd ed in the last few weeks, and had a great time. Wouldn't say it was truly terrible.

it's probably just Martel being Martel, he seems to have baffling and ridiculous standards for everything.

 CrashGordon94 wrote:

 obithius wrote:
I've played two games of 2nd ed in the last few weeks, and had a great time. Wouldn't say it was truly terrible.

it's probably just Martel being Martel, he seems to have baffling and ridiculous standards for everything.

Nah, by all accounts, he's been stuck for years in one of the most craptacular metas I've ever heard of.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
Heavy Bolters and Warp Spiders were -2 hardly "pretty much death".

Warp Spiders in 2E were death incarnate. Their to hit was based on the beating Initiative of the target and they got +1 to models fully under the large flamer template. In addition any model hit once was automatically hit by all subsequent deathspinner attacks that turn. If you're hit you make a save- no to wound- and failure is instant death regardless of wounds.

Any weapon that ignores cover and automatically wounds (as well as potentially automatically hitting!) is amazing. That it's mounted on models who can teleport up to 30" in a turn (including after shooting) and it can easily hit multiple targets is just gravy. Granted the were like 40pts per model but still, I never failed to recoup my costs with them.

 obithius wrote:
I've played two games of 2nd ed in the last few weeks, and had a great time. Wouldn't say it was truly terrible.

Yeah. I know several people that were surprised to find out that the core mechanics they liked from Necromunda were initially from 2nd edition, when they thought 40k had always been like 3rd edition onwards.

Granted, Im not a big fan of cumbersome 2nd ed. armor penetration rolls.

 CrashGordon94 wrote:

 obithius wrote:
I've played two games of 2nd ed in the last few weeks, and had a great time. Wouldn't say it was truly terrible.

it's probably just Martel being Martel, he seems to have baffling and ridiculous standards for everything.

No, I just don't like games where I can be tabled in one turn. I played 2nd ed with BA over a dozen times and never won.

Wait, you never won with 2nd edition BA? Are you sure its not just you Martel? (no offence intended)

Yeah, Blood Angels weren't quite on the same level as Space Wolves or Eldar, but they weren't far behind...

 master of ordinance wrote:
Wait, you never won with 2nd edition BA? Are you sure its not just you Martel? (no offence intended)

Pretty sure, because when 3rd hit I had a 21 game win streak BEFORE codex BA came out. Yes, I abused the gak out of 3rd ed power armor.


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 insaniak wrote:
Yeah, Blood Angels weren't quite on the same level as Space Wolves or Eldar, but they weren't far behind...

Umm...... not even close. The Space Wolves were the only playable loyalist marine faction. All the others were pure victims. I never saw Ultramarines win, either. EVER. The Eldar were one of the power three in 2nd. I can't even conceive of a way for loyalist marines to beat Eldar in that game short of the Eldar player having a stroke during the match.