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What's not KT-friendly about the Breachers? A breacher with a turret sounds like a great way to do an FPS style Engineer type character.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
What's not KT-friendly about the Breachers? A breacher with a turret sounds like a great way to do an FPS style Engineer type character.

IMHO, they are little too powerful for Kill Team. Especially with the turret.

JinxDragon wrote:
Thinking more on it, Breachers are one of the better ways to prevent the 'gun line' style of Tau play.
Problem for me, it is not very Kill Team friendly and that is all I seem interested in these days.

To prevent that style of play, they have to do better than the gunline, not just be different. Kroot and Vespid offer different options- they just suck harder than Jenna Jameson.

Not super OP like certain people want to see out of tau, but definitely add some flavor and options. I'll play them casually for sure.

 Hawkeye888 wrote:
Not super OP like certain people want to see out of tau, but definitely add some flavor and options. I'll play them casually for sure.

I don't think anybody wants them to be OP, just not worse than the options we have already. FWs with pulse carbines are better than these at all ranges except 5", and they can stay in that 18" sweetspot.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Hawkeye888 wrote:
Not super OP like certain people want to see out of tau, but definitely add some flavor and options. I'll play them casually for sure.

I don't think anybody wants them to be OP, just not worse than the options we have already. FWs with pulse carbines are better than these at all ranges except 5", and they can stay in that 18" sweetspot.

But when they get within 5 they are more than 3x more efficient than fire warriors vs MEQ. Seems like a fair trade off to me.

At 5 inches basically every guy has a plasmagun when it comes to killing MEQ.

Pretty great when you consider they are only 9 points per model.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Hawkeye888 wrote:
Not super OP like certain people want to see out of tau, but definitely add some flavor and options. I'll play them casually for sure.

I don't think anybody wants them to be OP, just not worse than the options we have already. FWs with pulse carbines are better than these at all ranges except 5", and they can stay in that 18" sweetspot.

But when they get within 5 they are more than 3x more efficient than fire warriors vs MEQ. Seems like a fair trade off to me.

At 5 inches basically every guy has a plasmagun when it comes to killing MEQ.

Pretty great when you consider they are only 9 points per model.

Yeah, they are pretty good at 5". but pretty lackluster everywhere else. And suits do it better (assuming that they stay the same) And if they are approaching, but don't get the 5", MEQ can just kill them in assault. If they just had 5,5 on the long ranged too, I'd like them, but the fact that they have to get within 10" to come up par with with pulse rifles and carbines is the killer to me. I love the idea, all my FWs have carbines, so I tend to be pretty short ranged anyway, but these just don't really have a place for me. Maybe if the DF get's it's desperately needed price drop.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Hawkeye888 wrote:
Not super OP like certain people want to see out of tau, but definitely add some flavor and options. I'll play them casually for sure.

I don't think anybody wants them to be OP, just not worse than the options we have already. FWs with pulse carbines are better than these at all ranges except 5", and they can stay in that 18" sweetspot.

But when they get within 5 they are more than 3x more efficient than fire warriors vs MEQ. Seems like a fair trade off to me.

At 5 inches basically every guy has a plasmagun when it comes to killing MEQ.

Pretty great when you consider they are only 9 points per model.

Then add an ethereal to the mix and you have a choice of 6+ FNP or double tapping at 5" to put out 40, S6, AP3 shots. Granted that puts them up around 190 pts plus devilfish tax but the devilfish can take off or pick them up the next turn if they're still alive.

I don't think they suck at all, especially with ML support and maybe a unit of crisis suits providing backup.

And suits do it better

Point for point though they clearly don't if you can get the blasters in range.

45 points for 10 str 6 ap 3 shots is incredibly good value.

Stick them in a devilfish and they make for a great area control tool. Anyone with a 3+ save won't want to end their turn within 17 inches of these guys.

Well looking at the rules I think they are supposed to take and hold objectives. The short range is a giveaway -- they're meant to be used in overwatch.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hence the turret. They take an objective and then camp on it.

Alcibiades wrote:
Well looking at the rules I think they are supposed to take and hold objectives. The short range is a giveaway -- they're meant to be used in overwatch.

I don't think so. They are supposed to be rammed into the opponent's 3+ save units at an opportune moment, most likely using a devilfish, unless an alternate delivery system comes along.

They don't make a great overwatch unit due to the opponent being able to dictate the range - a smart opponent will stay 6 inches away if he wants to charge using anything with a 3+ save.

Not sure how the codex will pan out but there were items that increased the range of pulse weapons by 6" and that may still be a thing (it could even be an AoE buff too) and with what they've done with formations for the other armies I get the feeling that buffed BS overwatch could be a possibility...

I like em, seems like a fun unit.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
Well looking at the rules I think they are supposed to take and hold objectives. The short range is a giveaway -- they're meant to be used in overwatch.

I don't think so. They are supposed to be rammed into the opponent's 3+ save units at an opportune moment, most likely using a devilfish, unless an alternate delivery system comes along.

They don't make a great overwatch unit due to the opponent being able to dictate the range - a smart opponent will stay 6 inches away if he wants to charge using anything with a 3+ save.

Well take AND hold -- jump out of devilfish, take objective from enemy, deploy turret, sit on objective.

The enemy can sit outside of 5" if he wants to, but that reduces his chance of making the charge, hence gicing the Breachers another turn of shooting if he fails.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
Well looking at the rules I think they are supposed to take and hold objectives. The short range is a giveaway -- they're meant to be used in overwatch.

I don't think so. They are supposed to be rammed into the opponent's 3+ save units at an opportune moment, most likely using a devilfish, unless an alternate delivery system comes along.

They don't make a great overwatch unit due to the opponent being able to dictate the range - a smart opponent will stay 6 inches away if he wants to charge using anything with a 3+ save.

I keep trying to explain this to them but many don't understand measurement. It's easy for them to stay out of the range of these guys and either whittle them down or move in to charge them at a 5.1 range which is incredibly easy to make and they won't be getting their overwatch 6/3. They'll only have whatever Breachers that have survived up until then doing ordinary 5/5 shots. Where as with FW and pulse rifles they can always be shooting at their maximum range and inflicting hits even if no one comes to them. Their range is huge and never discount a few extra hits from them. Then if they do get charged they might have been able to soften up the enemies approaching them for a few turns. Which usually result sin less shots coming their way before the charge and thus more alive to fire rapid fire and then overwatch. They simply shoot far far more dakka to put it simply. And that has a constant effect. Where as I've tried to explain breachers can't do that. They can't be constantly firing at things due to them being on a point with short range. The FW's are also guaranteed to use their maximum damage value and can't simply be kited or exploited with weird range brackets.

Once charged both are going down equally the same. Except the FW's will have a far likelier chance of contributing to the battle as well as being on a point compared to the breachers. Everyone here is saying "if the Breacherss get their full volley". All I have to do is quote a great Spartan King "If". I don't know what kind of opponents your playing but I rarely will ever have a full squad just idly sitting around. Maybe against certain armies if its in the backfield, but even then it's rare. All my units are damaged and picked off or weakened by battle. So it seems unlikely the Breachers will ever be at full squad to make that alpha strike. Where as FW's can make some alpha or near alpha strikes depending on who goes first. The Breachers will usually get blown away or whittled down before anyone even gets close to them. Where as like I said FW's can contribute small amountss of 5/5 with their greater range. And if anyone does get in rapid fire range and tries to charge they still do the same 5/5 damage. Unless your opponent is extremely bad and ends up within the 5 inches for the guns to be amazing your just going to be doing 5/5 shots for overwatch. So why not use FW's at that point.

The only dubious role these things have is as a suicide mech tau unit, but even then we have better anti-tank that's far more reliable than them.

I think it's their accompanying turret that is supposed to be contributing to the battle at long range, not the 45 points worth of breachers that are its delivery system.

Hmm. Are there available rules for the turret yet?

Alcibiades wrote:
I think it's their accompanying turret that is supposed to be contributing to the battle at long range, not the 45 points worth of breachers that are its delivery system.

Hmm. Are there available rules for the turret yet?

It's just an sms or a missle launcher. Same stats as now.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
Well looking at the rules I think they are supposed to take and hold objectives. The short range is a giveaway -- they're meant to be used in overwatch.

I don't think so. They are supposed to be rammed into the opponent's 3+ save units at an opportune moment, most likely using a devilfish, unless an alternate delivery system comes along.

They don't make a great overwatch unit due to the opponent being able to dictate the range - a smart opponent will stay 6 inches away if he wants to charge using anything with a 3+ save.

I keep trying to explain this to them but many don't understand measurement. It's easy for them to stay out of the range of these guys and either whittle them down or move in to charge them at a 5.1 range which is incredibly easy to make and they won't be getting their overwatch 6/3. They'll only have whatever Breachers that have survived up until then doing ordinary 5/5 shots. Where as with FW and pulse rifles they can always be shooting at their maximum range and inflicting hits even if no one comes to them. Their range is huge and never discount a few extra hits from them. Then if they do get charged they might have been able to soften up the enemies approaching them for a few turns. Which usually result sin less shots coming their way before the charge and thus more alive to fire rapid fire and then overwatch. They simply shoot far far more dakka to put it simply. And that has a constant effect. Where as I've tried to explain breachers can't do that. They can't be constantly firing at things due to them being on a point with short range. The FW's are also guaranteed to use their maximum damage value and can't simply be kited or exploited with weird range brackets.

Once charged both are going down equally the same. Except the FW's will have a far likelier chance of contributing to the battle as well as being on a point compared to the breachers. Everyone here is saying "if the Breacherss get their full volley". All I have to do is quote a great Spartan King "If". I don't know what kind of opponents your playing but I rarely will ever have a full squad just idly sitting around. Maybe against certain armies if its in the backfield, but even then it's rare. All my units are damaged and picked off or weakened by battle. So it seems unlikely the Breachers will ever be at full squad to make that alpha strike. Where as FW's can make some alpha or near alpha strikes depending on who goes first. The Breachers will usually get blown away or whittled down before anyone even gets close to them. Where as like I said FW's can contribute small amountss of 5/5 with their greater range. And if anyone does get in rapid fire range and tries to charge they still do the same 5/5 damage. Unless your opponent is extremely bad and ends up within the 5 inches for the guns to be amazing your just going to be doing 5/5 shots for overwatch. So why not use FW's at that point.

The only dubious role these things have is as a suicide mech tau unit, but even then we have better anti-tank that's far more reliable than them.

Why would you be trying to use this unit defensively? The reason you keep having to explain is because your tactic is nonsensical. Comparing breachers to firewarriors is comparing apples to oranges. The only thing similar for comparison that tau have are vespid (which will probably still suck). GW kindly included the instructions for how to use this unit as the it's title. Put them in a devilfish and either hold them in reserve fly them at an objective, or at one of the enemies bully units. In the devilfish they have a 17' threat zone which considering the weapon they are armed with and their cost is great. If they want to shoot at the devilfish then they are not shooting at the riptide.

 Gamgee wrote:

Once charged both are going down equally the same. Except the FW's will have a far likelier chance of contributing to the battle as well as being on a point compared to the breachers. Everyone here is saying "if the Breacherss get their full volley". All I have to do is quote a great Spartan King "If". I don't know what kind of opponents your playing but I rarely will ever have a full squad just idly sitting around. Maybe against certain armies if its in the backfield, but even then it's rare. All my units are damaged and picked off or weakened by battle. So it seems unlikely the Breachers will ever be at full squad to make that alpha strike.

Oh my god... dude... Just ask your local IG/AM player about how to get your unit within 6" of an enemy target and blast it away. The magic word you have to mention him is "meltavets".

I mean, if you footslog with your Breachers in any way or form, then you are doing something very wrong. And this is kinda' going over your head as I can see it.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

Once charged both are going down equally the same. Except the FW's will have a far likelier chance of contributing to the battle as well as being on a point compared to the breachers. Everyone here is saying "if the Breacherss get their full volley". All I have to do is quote a great Spartan King "If". I don't know what kind of opponents your playing but I rarely will ever have a full squad just idly sitting around. Maybe against certain armies if its in the backfield, but even then it's rare. All my units are damaged and picked off or weakened by battle. So it seems unlikely the Breachers will ever be at full squad to make that alpha strike.

Oh my god... dude... Just ask your local IG/AM player about how to get your unit within 6" of an enemy target and blast it away. The magic word you have to mention him is "meltavets".

I mean, if you footslog with your Breachers in any way or form, then you are doing something very wrong. And this is kinda' going over your head as I can see it.

Exactly, there are already units that do this in many armies, now Tau have a solid option too. This isn't a new tactic, its tried and true.

Are you all going to just ignore the fact that in the unit picture there is a pulse accelerator drone?

As in, the thing that extends shooting range?

Obviously they can get them then, they clearly became standard issue.

So. How about spending some 15 points to get the range of the lethal strike to 11?

 Gamgee wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
I think it's their accompanying turret that is supposed to be contributing to the battle at long range, not the 45 points worth of breachers that are its delivery system.

Hmm. Are there available rules for the turret yet?

It's just an sms or a missle launcher. Same stats as now.

I mean its toughness, wounds and so forth.

Alcibiades wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
I think it's their accompanying turret that is supposed to be contributing to the battle at long range, not the 45 points worth of breachers that are its delivery system.

Hmm. Are there available rules for the turret yet?

It's just an sms or a missle launcher. Same stats as now.

I mean its toughness, wounds and so forth.

None. It can't be targeted in any way. The only way to kill it is to kill the models within 2" of it.

I see these guys as 11pt haywire grenade suiciders who can also bring the pain in close range. Tau has a ton of s7 ap 4 shots which are great against light vehicles but tau needs something for high AV. Also if these guys get access to the pulse accelerator drone then they will be extremely good with 11" range and 5++.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Are you all going to just ignore the fact that in the unit picture there is a pulse accelerator drone?

As in, the thing that extends shooting range?

Obviously they can get them then, they clearly became standard issue.

So. How about spending some 15 points to get the range of the lethal strike to 11?

I'm pretty sure that's supposed to be the shield projector drone. The pulse accelerator is this guy.


Completely different models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

Once charged both are going down equally the same. Except the FW's will have a far likelier chance of contributing to the battle as well as being on a point compared to the breachers. Everyone here is saying "if the Breacherss get their full volley". All I have to do is quote a great Spartan King "If". I don't know what kind of opponents your playing but I rarely will ever have a full squad just idly sitting around. Maybe against certain armies if its in the backfield, but even then it's rare. All my units are damaged and picked off or weakened by battle. So it seems unlikely the Breachers will ever be at full squad to make that alpha strike.

Oh my god... dude... Just ask your local IG/AM player about how to get your unit within 6" of an enemy target and blast it away. The magic word you have to mention him is "meltavets".

I mean, if you footslog with your Breachers in any way or form, then you are doing something very wrong. And this is kinda' going over your head as I can see it.

The.. devilfish. You play tau right? You know how overpriced the devilfish is, right? I mean that could change (and I certainly hope it does), but it's been overpriced the last two codexies, I would not be surprised if it remained that way.

Edit: It would be 180 points for a full squad (with no shield/turret) and un-upgraded devilfish.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

Once charged both are going down equally the same. Except the FW's will have a far likelier chance of contributing to the battle as well as being on a point compared to the breachers. Everyone here is saying "if the Breacherss get their full volley". All I have to do is quote a great Spartan King "If". I don't know what kind of opponents your playing but I rarely will ever have a full squad just idly sitting around. Maybe against certain armies if its in the backfield, but even then it's rare. All my units are damaged and picked off or weakened by battle. So it seems unlikely the Breachers will ever be at full squad to make that alpha strike.

Oh my god... dude... Just ask your local IG/AM player about how to get your unit within 6" of an enemy target and blast it away. The magic word you have to mention him is "meltavets".

I mean, if you footslog with your Breachers in any way or form, then you are doing something very wrong. And this is kinda' going over your head as I can see it.

The EXACT same post you quoted. Look at the bottom. Look at it and read. And I quote myself "The only dubious role these things have is as a suicide mech tau unit, but even then we have better anti-tank that's far more reliable than them." Mech being short version of mechanized. Mechanized armies being high in vehicle, troop transports, and infantry fighting vehicles to support their troops when they get out. I didn't realize I had to quote the definitions at you. So our breacher/devilfish combo is not all that great compared to other options we have that the Breachers do. We have XV8, RIptides, Ghostkeels, and so much anti-infantry in all flavors its insane. Their only role is that of an anti-tank unit you rush up. Except we have fusion teams and now ghostkeels. We also have Y'vahrahs and R''varnahs. Our railguns might even get buffed to be useful. We also have broadsides with HYMP that are good vehicle killers. All of these are far better than the breachers at anti-tank and synergise better with FW pumping out anti-infantry fire. Our transports will get blown to pieces before it gets across the board and last I checked they ain't cheap.

Isn't that the new super-shield drone rather than a pulse accellerator?

Anyway, yeah, I see these guys being the Tau answer to my Dominions, which would make it a pretty fricken scary squad, even without melta.

"Overpriced Devilfish".....
Son, have you ever heard of the Chimera? Because that thing is by far the most overpriced dedicated transport in the game and yet it is still used because IG players HAVE too. The Devilfish is a decent vehicle and with these Breachers in it will bring the hurt just about anywhere on the board.
Think of them as a specops team and the Devilfish as their gunship transport.

Chimra's 5 points cheaper the Repressor :p

 master of ordinance wrote:
"Overpriced Devilfish".....
Son, have you ever heard of the Chimera? Because that thing is by far the most overpriced dedicated transport in the game and yet it is still used because IG players HAVE too. The Devilfish is a decent vehicle and with these Breachers in it will bring the hurt just about anywhere on the board.
Think of them as a specops team and the Devilfish as their gunship transport.

Fusion blasters, XV8, Riptides, stealth teams, Ghostkeels, Y'vahrah's, Barracuda's, HYMP Broadsides, maybe buffed railguns, and R'varnah as anti-tank and many of them can serve as anti-infantry as well in a pinch. I don't need Breachers or spec op teams that are going to get blown away by one blast weapon.

Edit
It's not the pulse accelerator drone. I took a look at it and the new drone. It's not it. I find it doubtful if they'll get accelerator drones since it would mean having to pack in additional sprues for them in every kit.

Well I was only making a suggestion. As a fast moving objective grabbing team that can be dropped in, clear the objective and then bring down a missile turret to secure it they are quite versatile.