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 Peregrine wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:
But I just don't see a unit of 10 forcing 3 saves being all that much of a volume of fire.

Where are you getting 3 saves from? A squad of 10 without markerlights will get 10 hits, and will wound virtually any non-LoW unit on at least a 4+. So that's a minimum of 5 wounds, up to 8.333 against a TEQ unit.

I fixed my math in the referenced post. Thanks for pointing it out.

The sentence right before that, I was talking about bikes or other T5 2+ saves which make up most STARs, my math failed and should be changed to 6ish wounds so thats one dead model if they have only 1 wound each. Then the breachers disappear next turn in HTH.

I am a huge fan of these guys, so much so that they make me want to sort of abandon my pure suit army theme idea! Definitely the best way to run these guys I am thinking is by tossing them inside a Devilfish with Disruption pods and zooming up the table. With the Devilfishes good front armor and jinking ability not only do these guys have a great chance of getting into optimal range (11 inches thank to disembark) but potentially wrecking whatever they shoot at. That and they are very Farsight Enclave esque by getting up close to blast people to pieces.

I was talking about bikes or other T5 2+ saves which make up most STARs

How much do most stars cost? You are comparing the firepower of a 90 point unit, against things which regularly cost 400+ points.

Why must your breachers be going for their star? They have the devilfish to move where they need to be. Use your ionsides and other new giant robot ap 2 weapons to deal 2+ save units.

This said, not every star is 2+, and with markerlights breachers could still make a serious mess of things like DA black knights or TWC. Against T5 3+ save units, a unit of 10 will cause 6 wounds, easily covering their cost.

I think a large part of the question of the viability of the breachers is the viability of darkstrider in the new codex.

Assuming he keeps the same rules, but is reduced to a sane point cost (and can join breachers ofc), he can make them quite threatening.
Passing along scout/outflank makes them hit where you want better, and make a fair increase of their threat range, the "overwatch movement" makes it that much harder to charge them. as even standing 5.1 inch away, you are on average going to fail even without terrain slowing you down.
And above all-reducing enemy T by 1 means the breachers ID T4 units, wound T5 on 2+, T6 on 3+ and even T8 on 3+. even against the dreaded wraithknight they will be a legit threat.

They seem fluffy, effectively just cc with guns. That seems to fit with Tau. Will look forward to seeing some batreps with them.

Anyone else think they are intended to be defensive yet appear to be better when used offensively?

 Gamgee wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

Once charged both are going down equally the same. Except the FW's will have a far likelier chance of contributing to the battle as well as being on a point compared to the breachers. Everyone here is saying "if the Breacherss get their full volley". All I have to do is quote a great Spartan King "If". I don't know what kind of opponents your playing but I rarely will ever have a full squad just idly sitting around. Maybe against certain armies if its in the backfield, but even then it's rare. All my units are damaged and picked off or weakened by battle. So it seems unlikely the Breachers will ever be at full squad to make that alpha strike.

Oh my god... dude... Just ask your local IG/AM player about how to get your unit within 6" of an enemy target and blast it away. The magic word you have to mention him is "meltavets".

I mean, if you footslog with your Breachers in any way or form, then you are doing something very wrong. And this is kinda' going over your head as I can see it.

The EXACT same post you quoted. Look at the bottom. Look at it and read. And I quote myself "The only dubious role these things have is as a suicide mech tau unit, but even then we have better anti-tank that's far more reliable than them.

The point is that it isn't a dubious role - it is their role. Also, if you are having a problem, then present a solution to that problem in the same post... than why are you whining again? And why are you bringing anti-tank into the argument?

About the Devilfish, the Breachers might justify even its current cost. The full unit comes out for some 200 points (197), and... well... it can easily earn back this 200 points in a single Shooting phase if you think about it. If you have some markerlight support to spare (you should) then you can do ridiculous stuff like one-volley a Bloodthrister, kill gravbikes with impunity, or surprise scatbikes and Wraithguards. Hell, the sheer

But, you know what guys, if you really have problems with the cost of the Devilfish, then put your Breachers behind your screening Kroot: the enemy charges the Kroot, the Kroot dies, the enemy is within effective firing range for the Breachers (who, at this point, are better for follow-up shots than the FWs). Bam!

I literally don't get why people are having a hard time understanding the utility of this unit. Kitted out, they're a threat to nearly everything. Sure it could wind up being a bit expensive but it's something that Tau currently don't have, effective objective campers or a quasi-assault unit. As someone mentioned earlier, they're an assault unit that uses guns instead of knifes.

You can't take this unit in a vacuum. Well, you can but it would just show an ignorance of how Tau work since they've always been a synergy army.

Here's how I see them working:
FoF them up the field or edge. Don't forget that the Devilfish can jink because it's a skimmer and all and since it doesn't shoot very well, you're not missing out on anything.

10 of these guys, the new shield drone and upgrade for the 5++ with an ethereal either with them or nearby. Drop them within 5" of a unit you don't like and drop 40 shots at BS5 using a couple of MLs and/or remove cover if needed.

If they get shot at and/or charged the following turn, you have 4+/5++ which is not crappy in the least. Alternatively you can give them a 6+fnp with the ethereal instead of the additional shooting.

Big tank you don't like? EMP grenades. Your 300 pt unit just wiped out a landraider. They might die but the fish is probably still around.

Sure, all of this depends upon what the new codex looks like but so does all the doom and gloom.

A good alternative would be a piranha with beacon running up the field and dropping the devilfish in someone's face the following turn (maybe). More risky but hilarious. Piranha fusions the transport and the squad aces the contents.

I see great utility.

NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:They seem fluffy, effectively just cc with guns. That seems to fit with Tau. Will look forward to seeing some batreps with them.

Anyone else think they are intended to be defensive yet appear to be better when used offensively?

Not at all. They're breachers. Their mission is to blow a hole in a fortification and be the first unit through to clear out the enemy just inside and establish a beachhead for the rest of the army to get set up.

I mean, they effectively have shotguns - the most realistic representation of shotguns (admittedly plasma shotguns) I've seen in this game so far.

 agnosto wrote:

Here's how I see them working:
FoF them up the field or edge. Don't forget that the Devilfish can jink because it's a skimmer and all and since it doesn't shoot very well, you're not missing out on anything.

10 of these guys, the new shield drone and upgrade for the 5++ with an ethereal either with them or nearby. Drop them within 5" of a unit you don't like and drop 40 shots at BS5 using a couple of MLs and/or remove cover if needed.

If they get shot at and/or charged the following turn, you have 4+/5++ which is not crappy in the least. Alternatively you can give them a 6+fnp with the ethereal instead of the additional shooting.

Big tank you don't like? EMP grenades. Your 300 pt unit just wiped out a landraider. They might die but the fish is probably still around.

Except for the invul and necessity to get within 5" of infantry units, these are things that FW could do already. Fish are just too costly of a unit currently and until we get an idea of what changes they make to the devilfish it will be difficult to gauge their effectiveness, like getting deepstriking or outflanking. We will also need to see what changes are made to Darkstrider and to markerlights.

 agnosto wrote:
I literally don't get why people are having a hard time understanding the utility of this unit. Kitted out, they're a threat to nearly everything. Sure it could wind up being a bit expensive but it's something that Tau currently don't have, effective objective campers or a quasi-assault unit. As someone mentioned earlier, they're an assault unit that uses guns instead of knifes.

You can't take this unit in a vacuum. Well, you can but it would just show an ignorance of how Tau work since they've always been a synergy army.

Here's how I see them working:
FoF them up the field or edge. Don't forget that the Devilfish can jink because it's a skimmer and all and since it doesn't shoot very well, you're not missing out on anything.

10 of these guys, the new shield drone and upgrade for the 5++ with an ethereal either with them or nearby. Drop them within 5" of a unit you don't like and drop 40 shots at BS5 using a couple of MLs and/or remove cover if needed.

If they get shot at and/or charged the following turn, you have 4+/5++ which is not crappy in the least. Alternatively you can give them a 6+fnp with the ethereal instead of the additional shooting.

Big tank you don't like? EMP grenades. Your 300 pt unit just wiped out a landraider. They might die but the fish is probably still around.

Sure, all of this depends upon what the new codex looks like but so does all the doom and gloom.

A good alternative would be a piranha with beacon running up the field and dropping the devilfish in someone's face the following turn (maybe). More risky but hilarious. Piranha fusions the transport and the squad aces the contents.

I see great utility.

Here is why people don't see the 'utility' of this unit. Lets say you fully kitted them out w/ Shas'ui - mandatory for the drone - shield drone, EMP, and just a base D-fish. That's 204 pts. But that's not all - that Ethereal you're talking about using to buff the squad is 50 pts. Ok, so the effective cost of that unit just went up to 254 pts. If you want some markerlights to improve accuracy, the most ubiquitous and cost effective unit to get that is Pathfinders. So, say you have a full squad of Pathfinders - because anything less is worthless - that's 110 pts. Again, increasing the effective points of the unit to 364 pts. If you zoom up to get into the sweet spot of <5" for MEQ killing and succeed - congratulations, you've used 364 pts to kill ~150 pts of a Tac squad. Or, maybe you went after a squad of SM bikers. Again, you used 364 pts to kill ~220 pts of bikes - assuming of course you managed to kill them all. Yay...?

Going after a Land Raider? Sure, you could do that - but so can Firewarriors - for the same cost and have better weapons for >5" shooting. "They might die, but the 'fish is probably still around." Woo.. lost 124 pts of shooting models but still have a transport with a burst cannon. Sure am glad I still have that. Lynch pin of my army right there.

And a 4+/5++ may not be "crappy in the least", but it's certainly a long way from being good.

Piranha and a beacon to drop the D-fish? Piranha's don't have access to any kind of beacon. D-fish don't have Deep Strike. Nor do the Breachers have Scout, so it's not Outflanking. At this point, you're wishlisting rules to attempt to make this unit seem usable.

Yes, this unit can be used, and some players may find a way to use them well - but they simply don't do anything that can't be already performed by models we currently already have. Dual plasma XV8's are better MEQ killers due to better survivability, manuverability and threat range. Dual fusion suits and/or Missilesides are better for tank hunting. And of course the Riptide does all of this and then some for a whole lot more points efficiency.

 Vryce wrote:

Here is why people don't see the 'utility' of this unit. Lets say you fully kitted them out w/ Shas'ui - mandatory for the drone - shield drone, EMP, and just a base D-fish. That's 204 pts. But that's not all - that Ethereal you're talking about using to buff the squad is 50 pts. Ok, so the effective cost of that unit just went up to 254 pts.

Thing is, the 254 points setup is more than the effective loadout for this unit. No need for the Ethereal, the EMP grenades, and maybe you can ditch the drone too. All you need is 10 Breachers and a Devilfish with a D-Pod. That's 8 MEQ wounds off the table right there, everything else is just icing on the cake. The whole unit is 185 points. No need to go overboard, this unit simply doesn't require it.

When I see new units come out like this, I like to think of what easy counters there are. For this one it's pretty simple just to shoot them down since they still suffer the same FW pitfalls. Low model count, low leadership, and T3. These kind of feel like cheap wingless vespid.

They may be useful for keeping in reserves and dealing with what units arrived by drop pod the previous turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AtoMaki wrote:
All you need is 10 Breachers and a Devilfish with a D-Pod. That's 8 MEQ wounds off the table right there, everything else is just icing on the cake. The whole unit is 185 points. No need to go overboard, this unit simply doesn't require it.

I'd like to point out again, that this still requires getting within 5" range. I'm not saying it can't work, but it's something your opponent probably won't make the mistake of twice.

 Vryce wrote:

Here is why people don't see the 'utility' of this unit. Lets say you fully kitted them out w/ Shas'ui - mandatory for the drone - shield drone, EMP, and just a base D-fish. That's 204 pts. But that's not all - that Ethereal you're talking about using to buff the squad is 50 pts. Ok, so the effective cost of that unit just went up to 254 pts. If you want some markerlights to improve accuracy, the most ubiquitous and cost effective unit to get that is Pathfinders. So, say you have a full squad of Pathfinders - because anything less is worthless - that's 110 pts. Again, increasing the effective points of the unit to 364 pts. If you zoom up to get into the sweet spot of <5" for MEQ killing and succeed - congratulations, you've used 364 pts to kill ~150 pts of a Tac squad. Or, maybe you went after a squad of SM bikers. Again, you used 364 pts to kill ~220 pts of bikes - assuming of course you managed to kill them all. Yay...?

Going after a Land Raider? Sure, you could do that - but so can Firewarriors - for the same cost and have better weapons for >5" shooting. "They might die, but the 'fish is probably still around." Woo.. lost 124 pts of shooting models but still have a transport with a burst cannon. Sure am glad I still have that. Lynch pin of my army right there.

And a 4+/5++ may not be "crappy in the least", but it's certainly a long way from being good.

Piranha and a beacon to drop the D-fish? Piranha's don't have access to any kind of beacon. D-fish don't have Deep Strike. Nor do the Breachers have Scout, so it's not Outflanking. At this point, you're wishlisting rules to attempt to make this unit seem usable.

Yes, this unit can be used, and some players may find a way to use them well - but they simply don't do anything that can't be already performed by models we currently already have. Dual plasma XV8's are better MEQ killers due to better survivability, manuverability and threat range. Dual fusion suits and/or Missilesides are better for tank hunting. And of course the Riptide does all of this and then some for a whole lot more points efficiency.

Yeah, my bad about the piranha thing. I have no idea why I thought that they came with a beacon or whatever. Maybe I got them confused with a marine speeder? Anywho a devilfish is nearly always adequate as a jinking skimmer to get a unit where you need it unless your opponent is ignoring the rest of your army blowing his/her face off, then yeah, my 250pt unit just paid for themselves so my riptides can have free reign.

I'm genuinely curious what you would consider a "good" save then because a grunt infantry unit that costs about 250pts having a 4+/5++ probably sounds pretty darn good to most armies...considering terminators only get a 5++ beyond their 2+ and cost a heck of a lot more than 9pts. (something like 12pts if you factor the drone?). Does something need a rerollable 2++ before you consider it "good"?

About markerlights. Tau are a synergistic army and markerlights are there where/when you need them to support your goals for whatever turn. Again, please do not take this unit in a vacuum and wave a "crap" wand at it, even my riptides use ML support. Heck, I remember when playing Tau meant that I had to pay the Firewarrior tax so that I had a chance of even coming close to winning a game; just left them in the devilfish and hoped for the best. Even with a bare BS3, these guys will do damage and they have target and task options with the deployable turret and emp grenades; this makes them a bit more flexible in combat role than a base FW for about the same cost.

Yes, I agree the gun's range sucks but marine players are going to cry about even the 5". It would have been easier to make them a sort of upgraded carbine with 18" the S6AP3 coming in to play at 9" OR make it the full 18" and choice of S5AP5 or S6AP3 gets hot.

I'm willing to give them a try before I poop all over them, heck I've got some FWs with carbines that I hardly use, I could sub them before I buy the kit and see if I like them.

I may have missed it. What FOC slot do these guys fit into? If it's fast, I take everything back and I'll jump on the "suck" bandwagon because they compete with too much; if they're troops, I can see using a unit of them.

 Savageconvoy wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:
All you need is 10 Breachers and a Devilfish with a D-Pod. That's 8 MEQ wounds off the table right there, everything else is just icing on the cake. The whole unit is 185 points. No need to go overboard, this unit simply doesn't require it.

I'd like to point out again, that this still requires getting within 5" range. I'm not saying it can't work, but it's something your opponent probably won't make the mistake of twice.

Well, let's see: start with Devilfish, move forward 12", Flat Out for +6". If the enemy shoots at you, Jink for a 3+ Cover Save. Next Turn, you can move 6", disembark for an additional 6", and bang, you have just covered 30", you should have something in the 5" range at this point. But even without closing-in for a Turn, you are looking at a 17" effective range with move+disembark.

This is actually an amazingly well designed unit. It has real strengths and weaknesses. A unique purpose and fits it's fluff purpose.

IMO a lot of what will determine whether this unit is amazing or just decent will be the support characters and the cost of the transport. If those stay the same as the current codex this unit will still be good to great. I really want to make a fish of fury army now. Seems like it could be pretty brutal.

I'd agree, except that it goes down to 4,0 past 10". If it stayed at 5,5 I would be all over these guys, but that really is a killer to me. They have to be at 10" to match the pulse rifle (a battlerifle). If they had pinning like carbines, that would help a lot. It means that they would not be automatically assaulted next turn by any models they didn't kill. Heck, even 4,5 at long range, and pinning would do. Then they would at least match bolters in firepower.

Putting it rather bluntly, these are Skitarii Vanguard without the FNP with a point less BS and instead getting a Drone option that gives them a 5+ Invul against things that would negate their armor save.

Additionally Breachers are going to be able to Overwatch to support friendly units, bring a turret with SMS/MP which cannot be assaulted/shot to the table any time the unit stops moving, and get Photon Grenades with the option to additionally purchase EMP Grenades.

Do Breachers cost more points than Vanguard? Yes. But guess what those Breachers aren't paying for?
Relentless and a 6+ FNP. There is literally nothing on the Breacher profile which is not bad.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Putting it rather bluntly, these are Skitarii Vanguard without the FNP with a point less BS and instead getting a Drone option that gives them a 5+ Invul against things that would negate their armor save.

Additionally Breachers are going to be able to Overwatch to support friendly units, bring a turret with SMS/MP which cannot be assaulted/shot to the table any time the unit stops moving, and get Photon Grenades with the option to additionally purchase EMP Grenades.

Do Breachers cost more points than Vanguard? Yes. But guess what those Breachers aren't paying for?
Relentless and a 6+ FNP. There is literally nothing on the Breacher profile which is not bad.

Uhm... The Skitarii Vanguard is more expensive than the Breachers (90 points vs 100 when maxed out models-wise), and the Vanguards have a lot more tricks (+1 WS/I/Ld, Imperatives, Rad-Saturation) but they lack the sheer base firepower the Breaches have. If you say that the Breaches and the Vanguard are comparable, then you are putting it very bluntly... to the point where the only things they do share are S3, T3 and a 4+ armor save .

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Putting it rather bluntly, these are Skitarii Vanguard without the FNP with a point less BS and instead getting a Drone option that gives them a 5+ Invul against things that would negate their armor save.

Additionally Breachers are going to be able to Overwatch to support friendly units, bring a turret with SMS/MP which cannot be assaulted/shot to the table any time the unit stops moving, and get Photon Grenades with the option to additionally purchase EMP Grenades.

Do Breachers cost more points than Vanguard? Yes. But guess what those Breachers aren't paying for?
Relentless and a 6+ FNP. There is literally nothing on the Breacher profile which is not bad.

Uhm... The Skitarii Vanguard is more expensive than the Breachers (90 points vs 100 when maxed out models-wise)

You're right, that's my bad. I don't know why but I was using the 90 points for the full unit of 10 for Breachers in my head.

However it just makes Breachers that much more impressive.

and the Vanguards have a lot more tricks (+1 WS/I/Ld, Imperatives, Rad-Saturation) but they lack the sheer base firepower the Breaches have.

+1 WS is negligible on Vanguard. They bring no CCWs to the table aside from what the Alpha carries. Same thing goes with Initiative--negligible with no CCWs.
Imperatives are, at this juncture, one use Markerlights that have penalties if the wrong one is used.

If you say that the Breaches and the Vanguard are comparable, then you are putting it very bluntly... to the point where the only things they do share are S3, T3 and a 4+ armor save .

If you cannot understand the comparison between two units that are designed as short-ranged gun fighters in an army that can go absolutely bonkers with long ranged weapons, I cannot help you.

5,10 and 15 inch range is a weird one, never heard of anything with range in multiples of 5 before.

From a fluff perspective this unit makes sense to me, there must be times where the tau need to take a building intact without blowing it up and need to do some CQB and Kroot aren't available.

in game this unit will be all about how you deliver them, maybe the devilfish will get deepstrike to help them. It'd be expensive but I'd be tempted to put Shadowsun and Darkstrider in the unit with them. Shadowsun gives the unit stealth, shrouded and infiltrate, Darkstrider gives you scout, fighting retreat and -1 to targets toughness. You wouldn't have any trouble being in range first turn and with stealth, shrouded and fighting retreat they should be pretty survivable.

also in regards to getting charged, no ones going to want to charge you from 5", and that means assuming you're in terrain they'll always have at least an 8" charge before your S5 overwatch which is nice and if they fail the charge that's a very dead unit.

I'm actually a Tyranid player but I really like this unit, it seems far more balanced than the new units for the other armies, and it opens up quite a few new strategies for Tau players as well as a (relatively) cheap way to harden their gun lines against deep striking units. I can picture these holding an objective or being advanced along the board to force the opponent to divert some firepower or suffer significant losses.

Admittedly its also because I like the idea of an enemy that has to get within charging range of gaunt in order to fire

 Ratius wrote:
Ok gotcha.

Definitely a new game mechanic though no?

Nid MCs spawning mucalids in the movement phase?
IG dropping in weapons teams if needed?

#worried

IG have the this already in the fluff and I believe from FW in the form of the Tarantula sentry gun. I'm really curious as to whether or not devilfish will be getting a point drop to make feilding them loaded with breachers more appealing. I know a few tau plays that would make very happy.

I would be over the moon. They've needed a points drop for two codexs now. Especially as I love mobile mech-tau.

 Ir0njack wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
Ok gotcha.

Definitely a new game mechanic though no?

Nid MCs spawning mucalids in the movement phase?
IG dropping in weapons teams if needed?

#worried

IG have the this already in the fluff and I believe from FW in the form of the Tarantula sentry gun. I'm really curious as to whether or not devilfish will be getting a point drop to make feilding them loaded with breachers more appealing. I know a few tau plays that would make very happy.

Tarantula Sentry Guns have none of the recycling abilities that the Breacher Squad turrets have. They're an Artillery classed unit that have special rules about being locked in combat(they can't be) and fighting back(they can't).

Additionally, based upon the mode you set them in or what they are armed with they engage certain kinds of targets.

I see it as similar to guardian heavy weapons, except not mobile, and fired from the turret itself, not the operator.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Imperatives are, at this juncture, one use Markerlights that have penalties if the wrong one is used.

Free army wide markerlights, that can be used to make every unit hit on 2+ or better for 3 turns minimum (4 turns with a cheap relic), without the use of a kill-able support unit that costs points and takes up a contested FoC slot.

Don't get me wrong I don't think breachers are bad for their cost, Im definately going to pick some up, I also don't think imperatives are imbalanced, but as someone that goes up against skitarii often, you really understate the value of imperatives. Don't believe me? Let a space marine, eldar, IG, Tau or Necron player use the same imperatives for a game, or even an orks, daemon or tyranid player, and watch the difference.

I wonder how Breachers would work with a Ghostkeel behind them for support. Breachers up front with an invul and become intervening models to give the Ghostkeel a better cover. Could be expensive, but might be a fun flanking unit. Not sure how well the Ghostkeels ability would work with it.

What would be really cool if the turret can change armaments from one turn to the next as it gets pulled up and redeployed. You would use the missile pod if put close to your backfield, then switch to the SMS system if the unit finds itself midfield at some point.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Ir0njack wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
Ok gotcha.

Definitely a new game mechanic though no?

Nid MCs spawning mucalids in the movement phase?
IG dropping in weapons teams if needed?

#worried

IG have the this already in the fluff and I believe from FW in the form of the Tarantula sentry gun. I'm really curious as to whether or not devilfish will be getting a point drop to make feilding them loaded with breachers more appealing. I know a few tau plays that would make very happy.

Tarantula Sentry Guns have none of the recycling abilities that the Breacher Squad turrets have. They're an Artillery classed unit that have special rules about being locked in combat(they can't be) and fighting back(they can't).

Additionally, based upon the mode you set them in or what they are armed with they engage certain kinds of targets.

Ah, I was just going off the fact that they at A. automated turrent and B. Fluffise commonly dropped onto the battlefield. No rules were actually taken into account. Though I would love the see something like that in a future IG dex.

 chalkobob wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Imperatives are, at this juncture, one use Markerlights that have penalties if the wrong one is used.

Free army wide markerlights, that can be used to make every unit hit on 2+ or better for 3 turns minimum (4 turns with a cheap relic), without the use of a kill-able support unit that costs points and takes up a contested FoC slot.

How, exactly, are you getting "every unit hits on 2+ or better for 3 turns minimum (4 turns with a cheap relic)"?

I have encountered no Relic in the Skitarii or Cult Mechanicus book which has an effect like that. Are you referring to a Formation? Because the only Formation which grants you an additional usage of a Doctrina Imperative is the War Cohort and that is a pretty significant investment.

Don't get me wrong I don't think breachers are bad for their cost, Im definately going to pick some up, I also don't think imperatives are imbalanced, but as someone that goes up against skitarii often, you really understate the value of imperatives. Don't believe me? Let a space marine, eldar, IG, Tau or Necron player use the same imperatives for a game, or even an orks, daemon or tyranid player, and watch the difference.

I play Skitarii. I know how big of a deal they can be.

However I also know that, as I said, they have penalties if the wrong one is used at the wrong point in the game.
If I use the +3 Ballistic Skill Imperative(which I can only use once per game unless I field a War Cohort) against an Assault army that is going to be able to Charge me during their turn, and I do not shoot them off their Assault units off the board in my Shooting turn?
My units are going to be at -2 WS for the duration of their Assault phase.

What is the drawback to Markerlights again?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ir0njack wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Ir0njack wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
Ok gotcha.

Definitely a new game mechanic though no?

Nid MCs spawning mucalids in the movement phase?
IG dropping in weapons teams if needed?

#worried

IG have the this already in the fluff and I believe from FW in the form of the Tarantula sentry gun. I'm really curious as to whether or not devilfish will be getting a point drop to make feilding them loaded with breachers more appealing. I know a few tau plays that would make very happy.

Tarantula Sentry Guns have none of the recycling abilities that the Breacher Squad turrets have. They're an Artillery classed unit that have special rules about being locked in combat(they can't be) and fighting back(they can't).

Additionally, based upon the mode you set them in or what they are armed with they engage certain kinds of targets.

Ah, I was just going off the fact that they at A. automated turrent and B. Fluffise commonly dropped onto the battlefield. No rules were actually taken into account. Though I would love the see something like that in a future IG dex.

The funny part is a ton of the ideas I've been tossing around in my head or in conversation for Guard?

They seem to be showing up in the Tau Empire book. Might need to invest in some tin foil!