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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/17 16:06:56
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Not as Good as a Minion
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Bojazz wrote: It is not even a special rule that's listed in the FMC special rules. Hard to hit is it's own separate rule that procs whenever a Swooping FMC is shot at.
Um... Hard To Hit IS listed in FMC Special Rules just as much Thrust is for Jet Pack units. It's just not listed as part of the USRs.
SharkoutofWata wrote:Just as proof that a MC or FMC can join Infantry: Hive Tyrants join Tyrant Guard units 'exactly as if they were an Independent Character'. Not 'as if the unit type were Infantry'. No mention of changing types. Proof positive that FMCs acting as Independent Characters can join in with units.
Well, that's for MCs, The Tyrant cannot join if it has Wings.
Sunhero wrote:It really doesn't work does it hopefully the codex will clear it up, or every one will have their own interpretation.
While it has happened once or twice, I really doubt it.
AncientSkarbrand wrote:What? Are not daemon fmc's independent?
No...
AncientSkarbrand wrote:Are you telling me I can run 20 flesh hounds with a bloodthirster?
You can, but they would be separate units the whole time.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was under the impression that mc's cannot join or be joined by anything.
ICs cannot normally join MC units. There is no rule in the MC type that says they cannot join other units.
AncientSkarbrand wrote:Can MC's actually join units? Has this been done before aside from tyrant guard and conclave of the burning one? Every battle report i've seen has them on their own. I don't mean to derail the thread, it's just that i would have several new lists to try out if this was the case.
Just like any other unit type, MCs can join other units if they have the Independent Character rule, the same thing would apply if it was Walkers or Tanks we were talking about.
Besides the Tyrant Guard and the Conclave, one of Farsight's Samurai 7 (8) is a Riptide MC with the IC rule. It should be noted that if he joins a unit, no other IC can join that unit*, since it contains an MC now. *Barring any other special rule the IC in question may have.
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Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/17 16:58:36
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Foolproof Falcon Pilot
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Charistoph wrote:Bojazz wrote: It is not even a special rule that's listed in the FMC special rules. Hard to hit is it's own separate rule that procs whenever a Swooping FMC is shot at.
Um... Hard To Hit IS listed in FMC Special Rules just as much Thrust is for Jet Pack units. It's just not listed as part of the USRs.
by that logic "Swooping mode" and "leaving combat airspace" are FMC special rules as well, since they are rules that are found in the FMC section. Just because a rule is found in a section does not make it a special rule owned by the section's subject. For instance, "dangerous terrain tests" are not a special rule of terrain models, it's just a rule in the game that gets called whenever a certain interaction occurs. In this case, that interaction is an FMC being shot at. All of the "special rules" that an FMC has are listed in the special rules section. "Hard to Hit" is not in this section. Special rules, Flight Modes, Gliding, and Swooping all have equal sized/bolded text, indicating each is a new section of rules, separate from each other. Beneath Swooping we find Swooping Hunters, Hard to Hit, Leaving Combat Airspace, Grounded Tests, and a rule referencing tank shock, indicating they are also rules separate from each other, but under the "Swooping" rule's umbrella.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/17 16:59:19
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/17 18:18:45
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Fixture of Dakka
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Bojazz wrote:Woah, hold on a tick....
- Commander enters Swooping Mode
- Commander ends his move within 2" of a unit
- Commander joins that unit
- All shots that target that unit must be resolved as Snap Shots. :O
Hard to hit:
"A Swooping Monstrous Creature is a very difficult target for units without specialized weapons. Shots resolved at such a target can only be resolved as Snap Shots unless the model or weapon has the Skyfire special rule."
Seems like the only requirement for "Hard to Hit" to proc is that a swooping monstrous creature is being shot at.
Special rules do not confer unless the rule itself specifies that it does.
So no, the unit is not Hard-to-hit.
No, the unit may not go back into Ongoing Reserves (short of a deepstrike mishap).
And yes, the unit can be assaulted.
As a simple example, take a unit of terminators. Now add a non-Terminator Captain to the unit. The unit now loses the ability to Deepstrike because the Captain himself cannot Deepstrike.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/17 18:25:10
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/17 19:22:45
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Foolproof Falcon Pilot
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Hard to hit is not a special rule. The FMC doesn't have a special rule called "Hard to Hit", so there's nothing to confer (or not to). It's not listed under the FMC's "special rules" nor is it found in the "special rules" section of the rulebook. Hard to Hit is just a rule in the game that triggers when an FMC is being shot at. For instance, units don't have a special rule that forces them to take leadership tests when they take 25% casualties, it's just a rule in the game that triggers under certain circumstances. When an FMC is in a unit, it's still being shot at (although this gets back to the mixed unit types argument which goes nowhere). In your example, the deep strike special rule states that every model in the unit has to have the deep strike special rule. In "Hard to Hit" it only states that "Hitting FMCs is hard. Shots against such a target must be resolved as snap shots". So the example doesn't really fit this situation. Additionally, The wording is very different from the rest of the rulebook in that most rules that trigger when a unit type is targeted state something along the lines of "when x is declared as the target of a shooting attack, do X". Hard to hit says "hitting these guys is tough without specific weaponry, any shots against such a target must be resolved as snap shots". The odd context of the word "target" leaves it unclear. Do they mean target as in the game mechanic? if so, why did they word it so differently than everything else? Or do they mean target as in the english word simply referring to whatever is being shot at? The rules didn't have FMCs joining units in mind when they were written, so they simply don't clearly cover the situation. I can see how it could work and I can see how it couldn't work, both sides supported by RAW (mostly hinging on if the "Hard to Hit" rule requires the targeted unit to be "FMC" type, and how your group rules mixed unit types.). As I stated earlier, HIWPI is that the swooping flight mode temporarily removes the Independent Character special rule, as that makes the most sense fluff wise, and avoids funky rules interactions.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/17 19:23:26
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/17 20:22:17
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Not as Good as a Minion
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Bojazz wrote:Charistoph wrote:Bojazz wrote: It is not even a special rule that's listed in the FMC special rules. Hard to hit is it's own separate rule that procs whenever a Swooping FMC is shot at.
Um... Hard To Hit IS listed in FMC Special Rules just as much Thrust is for Jet Pack units. It's just not listed as part of the USRs.
by that logic "Swooping mode" and "leaving combat airspace" are FMC special rules as well, since they are rules that are found in the FMC section. Just because a rule is found in a section does not make it a special rule owned by the section's subject. For instance, "dangerous terrain tests" are not a special rule of terrain models, it's just a rule in the game that gets called whenever a certain interaction occurs. In this case, that interaction is an FMC being shot at. All of the "special rules" that an FMC has are listed in the special rules section. "Hard to Hit" is not in this section. Special rules, Flight Modes, Gliding, and Swooping all have equal sized/bolded text, indicating each is a new section of rules, separate from each other. Beneath Swooping we find Swooping Hunters, Hard to Hit, Leaving Combat Airspace, Grounded Tests, and a rule referencing tank shock, indicating they are also rules separate from each other, but under the "Swooping" rule's umbrella.
Indeed. That is why I said that it as much a special rule as Thrust is for Jet Pack units. I also did say that it was not under Universal Special Rules.
It is a rule, and it is special and specific to the unit type. And if your only case for Hard To Hit spreading to a unit is, "it's not a 'special rule'", than you have no case. A Jet Pack Commander doesn't pass on Thrust or Relentless to a Broadside unit it joins, so why would a Swooping FMC pass on Hard To Hit to a unit it joins?
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Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/17 20:25:02
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Fixture of Dakka
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Bojazz wrote:Hard to hit is not a special rule. The FMC doesn't have a special rule called "Hard to Hit", so there's nothing to confer (or not to). It's not listed under the FMC's "special rules" nor is it found in the "special rules" section of the rulebook. Hard to Hit is just a rule in the game that triggers when an FMC is being shot at. For instance, units don't have a special rule that forces them to take leadership tests when they take 25% casualties, it's just a rule in the game that triggers under certain circumstances. When an FMC is in a unit, it's still being shot at (although this gets back to the mixed unit types argument which goes nowhere).
In your example, the deep strike special rule states that every model in the unit has to have the deep strike special rule. In "Hard to Hit" it only states that "Hitting FMCs is hard. Shots against such a target must be resolved as snap shots". So the example doesn't really fit this situation.
Additionally, The wording is very different from the rest of the rulebook in that most rules that trigger when a unit type is targeted state something along the lines of "when x is declared as the target of a shooting attack, do X". Hard to hit says "hitting these guys is tough without specific weaponry, any shots against such a target must be resolved as snap shots". The odd context of the word "target" leaves it unclear. Do they mean target as in the game mechanic? if so, why did they word it so differently than everything else? Or do they mean target as in the english word simply referring to whatever is being shot at?
The rules didn't have FMCs joining units in mind when they were written, so they simply don't clearly cover the situation. I can see how it could work and I can see how it couldn't work, both sides supported by RAW (mostly hinging on if the "Hard to Hit" rule requires the targeted unit to be " FMC" type, and how your group rules mixed unit types.). As I stated earlier, HIWPI is that the swooping flight mode temporarily removes the Independent Character special rule, as that makes the most sense fluff wise, and avoids funky rules interactions.
If a jump infantry IC joins a unit of infantry, can the unit move 12"? Can the unit re-roll it's charge range if it only moves 6"? Does the unit take dangerous terrain test when they move into terrain? No, the unit does not get any of the benefits of the Jump IC. This is called a permissive ruleset. They don't benefit from any of the Jump Infantry-specific rules unless those rules explicitly says that the entire unit benefits. It doesn't matter if that rule is a USR or not.
Also, FMC IC + infantry unit is still a unit of infantry (+ a FMC character). The unit that you are targeting is the infantry unit. You have no ways to specifically target the FMC by itself in the unit. The only exception is if you have a rule that says you can target specific models within a unit (i.e. Focussed Witchfires).
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/10/17 20:42:01
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/17 20:46:17
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Not as Good as a Minion
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jy2 wrote:If a jump infantry IC joins a unit of infantry, can the unit move 12"? Can the unit re-roll it's charge range if it only moves 6"? Does the unit take dangerous terrain test when they move into terrain? No, the unit does not get any of the benefits of the Jump IC. This is called a permissive ruleset. They don't benefit from any of the Jump Infantry-specific rules unless those rules explicitly says that the entire unit benefits. It doesn't matter if that rule is a USR or not.
Maybe not the best example.
Much like Fleet or Deep Strike, bonuses provided by Jump Packs can only be used when using the special movement, and the whole unit must be use the same movement type.
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Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/17 22:29:51
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Foolproof Falcon Pilot
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Right, the comparisons you're making are very different scenarios. The only requirement for "Hard to Hit" to proc is that a shooting attack is being made against a Swooping FMC. The IC joining a unit does not remove his "Swooping FMC" status. I'm not claiming that the unit is gaining any special rule, or special ability that FMCs get. Hard to Hit is a rule in the game that places the restriction of "snap firing" on the firing unit, because they are shooting at a Swooping FMC. It's not a special rule that FMCs have, so whether they are in a unit or not doesn't change anything. There's nothing to share. "Hard to hit" is not a special rule that can be gained or lost by any model in the game. It is a rule in the game that exists at all times, and only occurs in specific scenarios. That specific scenario being "a Swooping FMC or Zooming Flyer is being shot at".
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/10/17 22:36:03
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/17 22:42:57
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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Charistoph wrote:SharkoutofWata wrote:Just as proof that a MC or FMC can join Infantry: Hive Tyrants join Tyrant Guard units 'exactly as if they were an Independent Character'. Not 'as if the unit type were Infantry'. No mention of changing types. Proof positive that FMCs acting as Independent Characters can join in with units.
Well, that's for MCs, The Tyrant cannot join if it has Wings.
Yeah, I'm going to need a quote for this as it's not in either the FAQ or the Codex.
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Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/17 23:47:46
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
Ankh Morpork
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If a Swooping FMC joins a unit and thus counts as part of that unit for all rules purposes, isn't the target the unit the FMC has joined rather than the Swooping FMC specifically?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/18 01:44:52
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Not as Good as a Minion
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Happyjew wrote:Charistoph wrote:SharkoutofWata wrote:Just as proof that a MC or FMC can join Infantry: Hive Tyrants join Tyrant Guard units 'exactly as if they were an Independent Character'. Not 'as if the unit type were Infantry'. No mention of changing types. Proof positive that FMCs acting as Independent Characters can join in with units.
Well, that's for MCs, The Tyrant cannot join if it has Wings.
Yeah, I'm going to need a quote for this as it's not in either the FAQ or the Codex.
Hunh, I guess that changed. I remember someone quoting it since it released and just assumed it was still in there.
Bojazz wrote:Right, the comparisons you're making are very different scenarios. The only requirement for "Hard to Hit" to proc is that a shooting attack is being made against a Swooping FMC. The IC joining a unit does not remove his "Swooping FMC" status.
We're not saying he looses it or it is removed. We're saying that the UNIT which is being targeted does not benefit from it because Hard To Hit does not state it affects the unit. And the IC becomes part of the unit it joins, not the other way around. All it states is that it affects a unit type. Not the same thing.
Bojazz wrote: I'm not claiming that the unit is gaining any special rule, or special ability that FMCs get. Hard to Hit is a rule in the game that places the restriction of "snap firing" on the firing unit, because they are shooting at a Swooping FMC. It's not a special rule that FMCs have, so whether they are in a unit or not doesn't change anything. There's nothing to share.
Sorry, no. If you can force a unit to snap shot at you, that is quite something.
Also, I should point out that there is nothing in Hard To Hit (or any of the FMCs rules) which grant Hard To Hit or any of its benefits to any unit it joins.
As I said before, it is like Thrust and Skyborne. Just because an IC joins a unit with a benefit from its unit type, it does not get passed on to the unit they join. The rule itself must state it affects the unit. And Hard To Hit, does not do this.
Bojazz wrote: "Hard to hit" is not a special rule that can be gained or lost by any model in the game. It is a rule in the game that exists at all times, and only occurs in specific scenarios. That specific scenario being "a Swooping FMC or Zooming Flyer is being shot at".
Hard To Hit is a rule that is granted to either a Swooping FMC or a Zooming Flyer (and they are both slightly different). It is only gained when either of these units move in a specific way. They do not have access to it if they move in a different way. So, no, it is not "always on". But all of that is really besides the point.
So, in the end, if a Swooping FMC joins a unit, the unit cannot Charge. His unit is not Hard To Hit, and if he gets a Wound allocated to him, he takes a Grounding Check. So, keep him separate if you want all the benefits.
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Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/19 04:07:34
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Monstrously Massive Big Mutant
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Isnt the Swarmlord the ONLY IC MC in the game atm? (IIRC anyways)
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Life: An incomprehensible, endless circle of involuntary self-destruction.
12,000
14,000
11,000
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/19 04:23:30
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential
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Charistoph wrote:
SharkoutofWata wrote:Just as proof that a MC or FMC can join Infantry: Hive Tyrants join Tyrant Guard units 'exactly as if they were an Independent Character'. Not 'as if the unit type were Infantry'. No mention of changing types. Proof positive that FMCs acting as Independent Characters can join in with units.
Well, that's for MCs, The Tyrant cannot join if it has Wings.
He can join the Gargoyles though. The Skyblight Swarm formation allows the Hive Tyrant with wings to join a Gargoyle group and have them tank shots for him. Gargoyles are not flying creatures but Jump Infantry. So it's definitely possible to have a creature that can potentially FLY being in a group of infantry.
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It's called a thick skin. The Jersey born have it innately. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/19 04:55:51
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Not as Good as a Minion
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GoliothOnline wrote:Isnt the Swarmlord the ONLY IC MC in the game atm? (IIRC anyways)
No, he isn't. He doesn't come with it, at least. The Tyrant Guard Sheildwall rule allows for him to act like one with him.
Arkaine wrote:Charistoph wrote:
SharkoutofWata wrote:Just as proof that a MC or FMC can join Infantry: Hive Tyrants join Tyrant Guard units 'exactly as if they were an Independent Character'. Not 'as if the unit type were Infantry'. No mention of changing types. Proof positive that FMCs acting as Independent Characters can join in with units.
Well, that's for MCs, The Tyrant cannot join if it has Wings.
He can join the Gargoyles though. The Skyblight Swarm formation allows the Hive Tyrant with wings to join a Gargoyle group and have them tank shots for him. Gargoyles are not flying creatures but Jump Infantry. So it's definitely possible to have a creature that can potentially FLY being in a group of infantry.
As pointed out, earlier, the assertion I had earlier is no longer the case.
Which Formation rule allows for the Tyrant to join the Gargoyles? I see the one that gives them Objective Secured and allows for them to be respawned, but not one allowing the Hive Tyrant to join them.
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Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/19 05:00:53
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Nope there are a few Deamons, and a Tau Special character: Ovesha.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Charistoph wrote:GoliothOnline wrote:Isnt the Swarmlord the ONLY IC MC in the game atm? (IIRC anyways)
No, he isn't. He doesn't come with it, at least. The Tyrant Guard Sheildwall rule allows for him to act like one with him.
Arkaine wrote:Charistoph wrote:
SharkoutofWata wrote:Just as proof that a MC or FMC can join Infantry: Hive Tyrants join Tyrant Guard units 'exactly as if they were an Independent Character'. Not 'as if the unit type were Infantry'. No mention of changing types. Proof positive that FMCs acting as Independent Characters can join in with units.
Well, that's for MCs, The Tyrant cannot join if it has Wings.
He can join the Gargoyles though. The Skyblight Swarm formation allows the Hive Tyrant with wings to join a Gargoyle group and have them tank shots for him. Gargoyles are not flying creatures but Jump Infantry. So it's definitely possible to have a creature that can potentially FLY being in a group of infantry.
As pointed out, earlier, the assertion I had earlier is no longer the case.
Which Formation rule allows for the Tyrant to join the Gargoyles? I see the one that gives them Objective Secured and allows for them to be respawned, but not one allowing the Hive Tyrant to join them.
Leviathan formation Skytyrant. If is one wing Tyrant and 2 broods of gargoyles as single unit.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/19 05:02:27
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/19 05:08:16
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
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Doesn't taking the Coldstar change the Commander to (Character)?
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BlaxicanX wrote:A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/19 05:11:52
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential
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Charistoph wrote:Which Formation rule allows for the Tyrant to join the Gargoyles? I see the one that gives them Objective Secured and allows for them to be respawned, but not one allowing the Hive Tyrant to join them.
Not the objective secured one, the other one, got the names mixed up. Skytyrant Swarm it's called and allows the Hive Tyrant to join the Gargoyles according to the Monstrous Flock special rule.
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It's called a thick skin. The Jersey born have it innately. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/19 08:26:32
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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To be more specific, for the Skytyrant, the Flyrant and Gargoyles all form a single unit, and the Flyrant can only Glide.
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Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/19 14:02:40
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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Eldarain, The default Commander also has the Unit Type: (character), it is irrelevant to the Independent Character Special Rule. A minor link between the two does exist, but only so far as to grant Models the (character) Unit Type anyway. It is more likely this Suit will have some sort of 'No longer can Join' Rule or similar to bypass this entire problem.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/10/19 14:20:20
8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/20 01:55:47
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Monstrously Massive Big Mutant
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barnowl wrote:
Nope there are a few Deamons, and a Tau Special character: Ovesha.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Charistoph wrote:GoliothOnline wrote:Isnt the Swarmlord the ONLY IC MC in the game atm? (IIRC anyways)
No, he isn't. He doesn't come with it, at least. The Tyrant Guard Sheildwall rule allows for him to act like one with him.
Arkaine wrote:Charistoph wrote:
SharkoutofWata wrote:Just as proof that a MC or FMC can join Infantry: Hive Tyrants join Tyrant Guard units 'exactly as if they were an Independent Character'. Not 'as if the unit type were Infantry'. No mention of changing types. Proof positive that FMCs acting as Independent Characters can join in with units.
Well, that's for MCs, The Tyrant cannot join if it has Wings.
He can join the Gargoyles though. The Skyblight Swarm formation allows the Hive Tyrant with wings to join a Gargoyle group and have them tank shots for him. Gargoyles are not flying creatures but Jump Infantry. So it's definitely possible to have a creature that can potentially FLY being in a group of infantry.
As pointed out, earlier, the assertion I had earlier is no longer the case.
Which Formation rule allows for the Tyrant to join the Gargoyles? I see the one that gives them Objective Secured and allows for them to be respawned, but not one allowing the Hive Tyrant to join them.
Leviathan formation Skytyrant. If is one wing Tyrant and 2 broods of gargoyles as single unit.
I must have skipped over it, but, which Daemon MC is also an IC? I must have been blind all these years =/
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Life: An incomprehensible, endless circle of involuntary self-destruction.
12,000
14,000
11,000
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/20 02:02:08
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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Eldarain wrote:Doesn't taking the Coldstar change the Commander to (Character)?
Character is a unit type. Independent Character is a special rule.
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Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote:Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote:Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens BaronIveagh wrote:Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/21 04:50:52
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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GoliothOnline wrote:barnowl wrote:
Nope there are a few Deamons, and a Tau Special character: Ovesha.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Charistoph wrote:GoliothOnline wrote:Isnt the Swarmlord the ONLY IC MC in the game atm? (IIRC anyways)
No, he isn't. He doesn't come with it, at least. The Tyrant Guard Sheildwall rule allows for him to act like one with him.
Arkaine wrote:Charistoph wrote:
SharkoutofWata wrote:Just as proof that a MC or FMC can join Infantry: Hive Tyrants join Tyrant Guard units 'exactly as if they were an Independent Character'. Not 'as if the unit type were Infantry'. No mention of changing types. Proof positive that FMCs acting as Independent Characters can join in with units.
Well, that's for MCs, The Tyrant cannot join if it has Wings.
He can join the Gargoyles though. The Skyblight Swarm formation allows the Hive Tyrant with wings to join a Gargoyle group and have them tank shots for him. Gargoyles are not flying creatures but Jump Infantry. So it's definitely possible to have a creature that can potentially FLY being in a group of infantry.
As pointed out, earlier, the assertion I had earlier is no longer the case.
Which Formation rule allows for the Tyrant to join the Gargoyles? I see the one that gives them Objective Secured and allows for them to be respawned, but not one allowing the Hive Tyrant to join them.
Leviathan formation Skytyrant. If is one wing Tyrant and 2 broods of gargoyles as single unit.
I must have skipped over it, but, which Daemon MC is also an IC? I must have been blind all these years =/
Pretty sure Belkor was an IC, I know he is a character.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/21 05:09:33
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
Ankh Morpork
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No clue if he was, but he isn't now.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/21 06:00:46
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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The unit is not "A Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature" and hard to hit only applies to "Shots resolved at such a target" (such a target is referencing A Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature) which the unit is clearly not.
When you target the unit you check if hard to hit applies, so you check if the target unit is "A Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature", find out it is not because there is not a single creature, and you hit as normal. Because Hard to hit only applies to "A Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature" not A Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature and any unit it is attached to.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/21 16:11:30
Subject: Re:FMC as independent characters
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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Yeah, he'd just be like a jump-pack unit, wound't he? Although, because a loophole in the rules, he can take entire units of drones with him when he does his swoop.
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Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote:Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote:Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens BaronIveagh wrote:Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/21 20:38:47
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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More likely the suit will forbid Joining outright.
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8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/21 20:42:40
Subject: Re:FMC as independent characters
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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Perhaps, but this is GW we're talking about, they probebly didn't even consider the fact they they can join units.
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Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote:Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote:Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens BaronIveagh wrote:Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/21 21:06:59
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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Always a possibility with Game Workshop, always a possibility. If it does happen I look forward to hearing some very interesting debates on the topic of 'possession,' as the Rule in question talks about the Commanders having Drones.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/21 21:07:06
8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/22 19:36:38
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Shrieking Traitor Sentinel Pilot
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Or, what happens if he joins a unit of drones? Do they observe the "come with me" rule?
I doubt it, but YMDC is going to be fun when this dex drops. So many awkward interactions.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/10/23 23:45:27
Subject: FMC as independent characters
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Been Around the Block
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Just double checked, neither Be'lakor nor any greater daemons (including DPs) are independent characters.
Almost lost my mind there for a second
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